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The Old Homosexuality/Bisexuality as Choice debate..
Posted 1/2/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


I have never ever claimed that homosexual orientation is a choice. If you think I have, then you have grossly misinterpreted the things I've said.
The only thing I ever said was that choosing to live a homosexual lifestyle is a choice. For many, it's a given, but for many people, as we know, it's not that simple. And in those cases, it becomes a choice one has to make. Like in the scenario of having a family that will disown you if you choose to live that life.

I never said orientation was a choice. Ever
.

And yes, I didn't suggest fighting religious dogma of homosexual discrimination, because I thought it was pretty obvious that that's what we should do. I said I agreed with you, didn't I? Do I really have to spell out every single detail for you to understand?
No, it's in fact you who misunderstood both "homosexuality" and "heterosexuality" not being sexual orientations, but as sexual preference. Which is why I used your misleading opinion as an example in my comment here in the first place. You overgeneralized human sexual orientation as some sorta "sexual activity", which one can choose to either engage or disengage as one pleases, with yourself claimed that "Homesxuality is a choice. In the same way that heterosexuality is a choice. Being sexually active is a choice, since you can also choose to NOT be sexually active. It's not something that's mandatory". Well you were wrong to say that humans can change their sexuality if they choose to.

Moreover, no, you didn't claim that "fighting religious dogma of homosexual discrimination" was something that you "thought it was pretty obvious that that's what we should do" in the first place. Because here you rather forcefully claimed with emphasis that "You are not FORCED to make either choices. You can CHOOSE". Therefore are you saying that for those who "choose" to accept the "religious dogma of homosexual discrimination" are responsible for their own consequences afterward? Just because the homosexuals knew that they'll get discriminated if they choose to come out of hiding, doesn't mean that sexual discrimination of any kind is OK. And yet you were willing to go through with it, by yourself honoring individual freedom to make informed choice.

So no, you don't have to "spell out every single detail" like you're about to do me some great favor. I can do that on my own term, so you can go ahead and throw a tantrum over the internet regarding gay marriage all you want. But that still won't help your homosexual friend, who's suffering from child abuse in the form of negligence, if that is you really do have one.
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Posted 1/2/12 , edited 1/2/12

DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


I have never ever claimed that homosexual orientation is a choice. If you think I have, then you have grossly misinterpreted the things I've said.
The only thing I ever said was that choosing to live a homosexual lifestyle is a choice. For many, it's a given, but for many people, as we know, it's not that simple. And in those cases, it becomes a choice one has to make. Like in the scenario of having a family that will disown you if you choose to live that life.

I never said orientation was a choice. Ever
.

And yes, I didn't suggest fighting religious dogma of homosexual discrimination, because I thought it was pretty obvious that that's what we should do. I said I agreed with you, didn't I? Do I really have to spell out every single detail for you to understand?
No, it's in fact you who misunderstood both "homosexuality" and "heterosexuality" not being sexual orientations, but as sexual preference. Which is why I used your misleading opinion as an example in my comment here in the first place. You overgeneralized human sexual orientation as some sorta "sexual activity", which one can choose to either engage or disengage as one pleases, with yourself claimed that "Homesxuality is a choice. In the same way that heterosexuality is a choice. Being sexually active is a choice, since you can also choose to NOT be sexually active. It's not something that's mandatory". Well you were wrong to say that humans can change their sexuality if they choose to.

Moreover, no, you didn't claim that "fighting religious dogma of homosexual discrimination" was something that you "thought it was pretty obvious that that's what we should do" in the first place. Because here you rather forcefully claimed with emphasis that "You are not FORCED to make either choices. You can CHOOSE". Therefore are you saying that for those who "choose" to accept the "religious dogma of homosexual discrimination" are responsible for their own consequences afterward? Just because the homosexuals knew that they'll get discriminated if they choose to come out of hiding, doesn't mean that sexual discrimination of any kind is OK. And yet you were willing to go through with it, by yourself honoring individual freedom to make informed choice.

So no, you don't have to "spell out every single detail" like you're about to do me some great favor. I can do that on my own term, so you can go ahead and throw a tantrum over the internet regarding gay marriage all you want. But that still won't help your homosexual friend, who's suffering from child abuse in the form of negligence, if that is you really do have one.


To ensure as much as possible that you can't twist my words any further, I've decided to erase the first part of ny comment and just leave you with this:


Whether it's you who are unable or just not willing to understand, or just me who suck at putting things properly, I obviously have to spell it out:
I do not in ANY way condone sexual discrimination. I belive in equality for everyone, regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual preference.
And that also means I think we should fight against religious dogmas and ignorance.
And I do not belive sexual orientation/preference is something that can be chosen or simply changed.

Is that sufficient enough for you?
Posted 1/2/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



You are twisting my words so much, it's unbelievable.
I never said anything about sexual orientation or preference until you brought it up.
And I also never said that one humans can change their sexuality if they want to, nor did I say that sexual discrimination is in any way OK. Where are you getting this from?

So whether it's you who are unable or just not willing to understand, or just me who suck at putting things properly, I obviously have to spell it out:
I do not in ANY way condone sexual discrimination. I belive in equality for everyone, regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual preference.
And that also means I think we should fight against religious dogmas and ignorance.
And I do not belive sexual orientation/preference is something that can be chosen or simply changed.

Is that sufficient enough for you?
No, because you got sexual preference and sexual orientation mixed up again. They're not the same. Sexual discrimination like homophobia is only the irrational fear towards the human sexual orientation called homosexuality, whereas sexual preferences OTOH are learned sexual behaviors. That can be regulated through individuals practicing informed choice. So why are you ignoring that again? Why are you so desperate to being right? When the fact is you're not getting human sexuality right time and again. Unless of course "self-righteousness is a learned cooperative behavior, in a psychosocial environment that's dominated by the culture of god/superiority complex".

And whatever happened to your "homosexual friend", when you could had been inferring to yourself. Well, were you?
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Posted 1/2/12 , edited 1/2/12

DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



You are twisting my words so much, it's unbelievable.
I never said anything about sexual orientation or preference until you brought it up.
And I also never said that one humans can change their sexuality if they want to, nor did I say that sexual discrimination is in any way OK. Where are you getting this from?

So whether it's you who are unable or just not willing to understand, or just me who suck at putting things properly, I obviously have to spell it out:
I do not in ANY way condone sexual discrimination. I belive in equality for everyone, regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual preference.
And that also means I think we should fight against religious dogmas and ignorance.
And I do not belive sexual orientation/preference is something that can be chosen or simply changed.

Is that sufficient enough for you?
No, because you got sexual preference and sexual orientation mixed up again. They're not the same. Sexual discrimination like homophobia is only the irrational fear towards the human sexual orientation called homosexuality, whereas sexual preferences OTOH are learned sexual behaviors. That can be regulated through individuals practicing informed choice. So why are you ignoring that again? Why are you so desperate to being right? When the fact is you're not getting human sexuality right time and again. Unless of course "self-righteousness is a learned cooperative behavior, in a psychosocial environment that's dominated by the culture of god/superiority complex".

And whatever happened to your "homosexual friend", when you could had been inferring to yourself. Well, were you?


Okay, so I got the definitions mixed up. Big deal (though thanks for clarifying). That doesn't change what I was trying to say.
I don't know what inferring means, and since I'm typing on my phone, I'm not gonna bother finding it out right now.
All that matters is what I intended to explain. It has nothing to do with an intense desire to be right. Just a desire to clarify things.
Posted 1/2/12 , edited 1/2/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



Okay, so I got the definitions mixed up. Big deal. That doesn't change what I was trying to say.
I don't know what inferring means, and since I'm typing on my phone, I'm not gonna bother finding it out right now.
All that matters is what I intended to explain. It has nothing to do with an intense desire to be right. Just a desire to clarify things.
Your superiority complex and self-righteousness are unmistakeably clear. So "no big deal" there when you "intended to" be unapologetic, thus you don't have to change your way of thinking for your own sake. You can just downplay and belittle everything.
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Posted 1/2/12 , edited 1/2/12

DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



Okay, so I got the definitions mixed up. Big deal. That doesn't change what I was trying to say.
I don't know what inferring means, and since I'm typing on my phone, I'm not gonna bother finding it out right now.
All that matters is what I intended to explain. It has nothing to do with an intense desire to be right. Just a desire to clarify things.
Your superiority complex and self-righteousness are unmistakeably clear. So "no big deal" there when you "intended to" be unapologetic, thus you don't have to change your way of thinking for your own sake. You can just downplay and belittle everything.



The "big deal" part was only added because even though I was mistaken about the definitions, it didn't matter for what I was trying to say. You understood what I was trying to say, thus it was not something that was a big deal in this specific case. Because the point still came across.
Posted 1/2/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



Okay, so I got the definitions mixed up. Big deal. That doesn't change what I was trying to say.
I don't know what inferring means, and since I'm typing on my phone, I'm not gonna bother finding it out right now.
All that matters is what I intended to explain. It has nothing to do with an intense desire to be right. Just a desire to clarify things.
Your superiority complex and self-righteousness are unmistakeably clear. So "no big deal" there when you "intended to" be unapologetic, thus you don't have to change your way of thinking for your own sake. You can just downplay and belittle everything.



The "big deal" part was only added because even though I was mistaken about the definitions, it didn't matter for what I was trying to say. You understood what I was trying to say, thus it was not something that was a big deal in this specific case. Because the point still came across.
I understood that you messed up, and you've been unapologetic while you've made pathetic excuses for yourself ever since. Furthermore, you even lied about the "homosexual friend" of yours.
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Posted 1/2/12 , edited 1/2/12

DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



Okay, so I got the definitions mixed up. Big deal. That doesn't change what I was trying to say.
I don't know what inferring means, and since I'm typing on my phone, I'm not gonna bother finding it out right now.
All that matters is what I intended to explain. It has nothing to do with an intense desire to be right. Just a desire to clarify things.
Your superiority complex and self-righteousness are unmistakeably clear. So "no big deal" there when you "intended to" be unapologetic, thus you don't have to change your way of thinking for your own sake. You can just downplay and belittle everything.



The "big deal" part was only added because even though I was mistaken about the definitions, it didn't matter for what I was trying to say. You understood what I was trying to say, thus it was not something that was a big deal in this specific case. Because the point still came across.
I understood that you messed up, and you've been unapologetic while you've made pathetic excuses for yourself ever since. Furthermore, you even lied about the "homosexual friend" of yours.

Yeah, I messed up. But it shouldn't matter, because that detail was not the overall message. You'be been placing far too much weight on that one detail and refused to just accept what I was trying to get across.
And the message was not that I am perfect about the definitions of things. It was that I don't condone discrimination of homosexuals.
Why can't you just leave a detail so trivial to the overall message alone?

As for my homosexual friend, no. I didn't lie.

Posted 1/2/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Yeah, I messed up. But it shouldn't matter, because that detail was not the overall message. You'be been placing far too much weight on that one detail and refused to just accept what I was trying to get across.
And the message was not that I am perfect about the definitions of things. It was that I don't condone discrimination of homosexuals.
Why can't you just leave a detail so trivial to the overall message alone?

As for my homosexual friend, no. I didn't lie.
It's the whole core of the topic "The Old Homosexuality/Bisexuality as Choice debate.. ". Therefore your mistake that you carelessly claimed "shouldn't matter" just gave the religious faith the excuse that they wanted, in order for themselves to discriminate, abuse, excommunicate, even ex-gay your "friend" due to his homosexuality.

So yeah, some self-righteous ignoramus of a friend you turned out to be. You're of no help at all, when the fact is you were just lying to cover for your own sorry self.

On a given day, studies show that you may be lied to anywhere from 10 to 200 times. Now granted, many of those are white lies. But in another study, it showed that strangers lied three times within the first 10 minutes of meeting each other. Now when we first hear this data, we recoil. We can't believe how prevalent lying is. We're essentially against lying. But if you look more closely, the plot actually thickens. We lie more to strangers than we lie to coworkers. Extroverts lie more than introverts. Men lie eight times more about themselves than they do other people. Women lie more to protect other people. If you're an average married couple, you're going to lie to your spouse in one out of every 10 interactions. Now you may think that's bad. It you're unmarried, that number drops to three.
---- from "Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar"
You didn't even lie in order for yourself to protect your friend from whom that discriminate his sexuality, and yet you claimed that you "don't condone discrimination of homosexuals". You're just a meek willed coward, who's afraid to condemn religious sexual discrimination, in order for you to save yourself. When the fact is it's your friend who needs saving.
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Posted 1/3/12

DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Yeah, I messed up. But it shouldn't matter, because that detail was not the overall message. You'be been placing far too much weight on that one detail and refused to just accept what I was trying to get across.
And the message was not that I am perfect about the definitions of things. It was that I don't condone discrimination of homosexuals.
Why can't you just leave a detail so trivial to the overall message alone?

As for my homosexual friend, no. I didn't lie.
It's the whole core of the topic "The Old Homosexuality/Bisexuality as Choice debate.. ". Therefore your mistake that you carelessly claimed "shouldn't matter" just gave the religious faith the excuse that they wanted, in order for themselves to discriminate, abuse, excommunicate, even ex-gay your "friend" due to his homosexuality.

So yeah, some self-righteous ignoramus of a friend you turned out to be. You're of no help at all, when the fact is you were just lying to cover for your own sorry self.

On a given day, studies show that you may be lied to anywhere from 10 to 200 times. Now granted, many of those are white lies. But in another study, it showed that strangers lied three times within the first 10 minutes of meeting each other. Now when we first hear this data, we recoil. We can't believe how prevalent lying is. We're essentially against lying. But if you look more closely, the plot actually thickens. We lie more to strangers than we lie to coworkers. Extroverts lie more than introverts. Men lie eight times more about themselves than they do other people. Women lie more to protect other people. If you're an average married couple, you're going to lie to your spouse in one out of every 10 interactions. Now you may think that's bad. It you're unmarried, that number drops to three.
---- from "Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar"
You didn't even lie in order for yourself to protect your friend from whom that discriminate his sexuality, and yet you claimed that you "don't condone discrimination of homosexuals". You're just a meek willed coward, who's afraid to condemn religious sexual discrimination, in order for you to save yourself. When the fact is it's your friend who needs saving.


This is unbelievable. Now you're acting like you know how I feel about condemning religious ignorance. Me being mistaken Does in no way give religious organizations or people an excuse to discriminate. Discrimination based on the ground of ignorance is never excusable. I condemn every single instance of it. I am not afraid to stand up against religious bigotry, and I have no reason to be afraid. Get that into your head. And on TOP of that, you think you know ANYTHING about how I have treated my friend when she needed support? You are doing nothing but spouting empty claims and lies!



Posted 1/3/12 , edited 1/3/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



This is unbelievable. Now you're acting like you know how I feel about condemning religious ignorance. Me being mistaken Does in no way give religious organizations or people an excuse to discriminate. Discrimination based on the ground of ignorance is never excusable. I condemn every single instance of it. I am not afraid to stand up against religious bigotry, and I have no reason to be afraid. Get that into your head. And on TOP of that, you think you know ANYTHING about how I have treated my friend when she needed support? You are doing nothing but spouting empty claims and lies!
Your tough guy macho act doesn't change the fact that you made the same claim here that the Christian faith made, about how homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, hence you argued here that it's a matter of free will.

Question: What the Bible Says About... Homosexuality
Homosexuality continues to make headlines on a daily basis. There is a major movement today to promote homosexuality as a valid lifestyle choice, and it has even become a “hot potato” subject in politics and in schools today. It is likely that you probably know at least one person that struggles with homosexuality, and as a Christian you need to know what the Bible says about the lifestyle choice.
---- from "What the Bible Says About... Homosexuality"

So once more...


I'm not afraid of your hardline rhetoric, nor can you lie to me like how you had lied to your homosexual friend. As long as you're as stupid and arrogant as those of the religious faith can get.
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Posted 1/3/12 , edited 1/3/12

DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



This is unbelievable. Now you're acting like you know how I feel about condemning religious ignorance. Me being mistaken Does in no way give religious organizations or people an excuse to discriminate. Discrimination based on the ground of ignorance is never excusable. I condemn every single instance of it. I am not afraid to stand up against religious bigotry, and I have no reason to be afraid. Get that into your head. And on TOP of that, you think you know ANYTHING about how I have treated my friend when she needed support? You are doing nothing but spouting empty claims and lies!
Your tough guy macho act doesn't change the fact that you made the same claim here that the Christian faith made, about how homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, hence you argued here that it's a matter of free will.

Question: What the Bible Says About... Homosexuality
Homosexuality continues to make headlines on a daily basis. There is a major movement today to promote homosexuality as a valid lifestyle choice, and it has even become a “hot potato” subject in politics and in schools today. It is likely that you probably know at least one person that struggles with homosexuality, and as a Christian you need to know what the Bible says about the lifestyle choice.
---- from "What the Bible Says About... Homosexuality"

So once more...


I'm not afraid of your hardline rhetoric, nor can you lie to me like how you had lied to your homosexual friend. As long as you're as stupid and arrogant as those of the religious faith can get.


And now you're claiming that I've been lying to my friend as well. You have no shame, do you?
And also claiming that I am one of the religious bigots?

Posted 1/3/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Your tough guy macho act doesn't change the fact that you made the same claim here that the Christian faith made, about how homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, hence you argued here that it's a matter of free will.

Question: What the Bible Says About... Homosexuality
Homosexuality continues to make headlines on a daily basis. There is a major movement today to promote homosexuality as a valid lifestyle choice, and it has even become a “hot potato” subject in politics and in schools today. It is likely that you probably know at least one person that struggles with homosexuality, and as a Christian you need to know what the Bible says about the lifestyle choice.
---- from "What the Bible Says About... Homosexuality"

So once more...


I'm not afraid of your hardline rhetoric, nor can you lie to me like how you had lied to your homosexual friend. As long as you're as stupid and arrogant as those of the religious faith can get.


And now you're claiming that I've been lying to my friend as well. You have no shame, do you?
And also claiming that I am one of the religious bigots?
There's no shame in myself pointing out how you had made the same claim as the Christian faith did, when I have both your own words and the Christian faith's as evidences to prove that it's true. Furthermore, you don't need to be religious in order for yourself to act like an arrogant and ignorant bigot, with your unnecessary shaming and blaming. Because I'm not interested in superficial differences.
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Posted 1/3/12 , edited 1/3/12

DomFortress wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Your tough guy macho act doesn't change the fact that you made the same claim here that the Christian faith made, about how homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, hence you argued here that it's a matter of free will.

Question: What the Bible Says About... Homosexuality
Homosexuality continues to make headlines on a daily basis. There is a major movement today to promote homosexuality as a valid lifestyle choice, and it has even become a “hot potato” subject in politics and in schools today. It is likely that you probably know at least one person that struggles with homosexuality, and as a Christian you need to know what the Bible says about the lifestyle choice.
---- from "What the Bible Says About... Homosexuality"

So once more...


I'm not afraid of your hardline rhetoric, nor can you lie to me like how you had lied to your homosexual friend. As long as you're as stupid and arrogant as those of the religious faith can get.


And now you're claiming that I've been lying to my friend as well. You have no shame, do you?
And also claiming that I am one of the religious bigots?
There's no shame in myself pointing out how you had made the same claim as the Christian faith did, when I have both your own words and the Christian faith's as evidences to prove that it's true. Furthermore, you don't need to be religious in order for yourself to act like an arrogant and ignorant bigot, with your unnecessary shaming and blaming. Because I'm not interested in superficial differences.


Remember how I tried to spell my opinion out earlier? That was because my first post was put in a wrong way, and was easy to misinterprate. I even said so myself. It was an attempt to clarify my opinion. To correct my own mistake. Yet you just dismiss that, and keep focusing on my poorly written first comment, which I've already admitted to, was poorly written and vague.

Posted 1/3/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



Remember how I tried to spell my opinion out earlier? That was because my first post was put in a wrong way, and was easy to misinterprate. I even said so myself. It was an attempt to clarify my opinion. To correct my own mistake. Yet you just dismiss that, and keep focusing on my poorly written first comment, which I've already admitted to, was poorly written and vague.
Then why can't you just honestly say that "I sorry, and thank you for the clarification"? Just how hard is it for you to be humble and practice humility?
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