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The Old Homosexuality/Bisexuality as Choice debate..
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Posted 3/19/12

JustineKo2 wrote:

I find this to be hugely contradictory of your own statements. The whole purpose of pointing out whether homosexuality is a choice or not is to criminalize and de-legitimize homosexuality as natural for people who are gay. If no one pointed it out, gay people and people who accept and tolerate homosexuality fully would not bring up the issue at all.

But then this: "it doesn't change that homosexuals will be homosexual anyway!" is basically saying being gay is unchangeable, hence they are born that way. So you shouldn't be pointing it out either, it's not an issue for you. But everything you said after that glaringly says it is an issue. Your words are completely inconsistent


Lala was pointing out that either way they are still a homosexual. If you're a homosexual (sorry if you're not), are you going to suddenly stop being homosexual after science proves that it's not genetic?
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Posted 3/19/12 , edited 3/20/12

LalaSatalin wrote:Lala was pointing out that either way they are still a homosexual. If you're a homosexual (sorry if you're not), are you going to suddenly stop being homosexual after science proves that it's not genetic?
Umm, the result of throwing more science at something (without bias or an agenda) tends to reveal the flaws put forth by bias or agendas. It's more conceivable to assume that presumption fueled be misunderstanding, fear and theistic based arguments is the only thing holding people to the homosexuality is a choice argument. The purpose of science is to counter that and bring the truth to light.

You're question is basically like saying, will some people still scoff at ships falling off the edge of the world after science proves the earth is flat?
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Posted 3/20/12

JustineKo2 wrote:

Umm, the result of throwing more science at something (without bias or an agenda) tends to reveal the flaws put forth by bias or agendas. It's more conceivable to assume that presumption fueled be misunderstanding, fear and theistic based arguments is the only thing holding people to the homosexuality is a choice argument. The purpose of science is to counter that and bring the truth to light.


Lala doesn't need a definition for science. Lala was asking why all the homosexuals care so much to debate whether it is genetic or preference, when either way it doesn't change the fact that they are homosexual.
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Posted 3/20/12

LalaSatalin wrote:
Lala doesn't need a definition for science. Lala was asking why all the homosexuals care so much to debate whether it is genetic or preference, when either way it doesn't change the fact that they are homosexual.


Just want to point this out real quick. It's affecting their lives in many ways:
- being not allowed to married everywhere
- gay kids being bullied at school
- not being socially acceptable
- etc. I think you see why now but that's off topic

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Posted 3/20/12

Traiano wrote:

Just want to point this out real quick. It's affecting their lives in many ways:
- being not allowed to married everywhere
- gay kids being bullied at school
- not being socially acceptable
- etc. I think you see why now but that's off topic


#1: Why do they need to marry?

#2: Homosexuals get bullied at school irrelevant to whether it's genetic or preferential. Homosexuals should know this the most. What's going to change after it becomes proven that it's a genetic mutation, or a preference? To this day, Lala observes that bullying is not caused by homosexuality, but rather the education system not addressing bullying in a proper manner. Children with mental disabilities get bullied regardless of knowing that they were born with it.

#3: It isn't.
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Posted 3/20/12

why all the homosexuals care so much to debate whether it is genetic or preference, when either way it doesn't change the fact that they are homosexual.


LOL you totally missed my point. The point of debates is not to change the fact that they are homosexual but to inform or educate more people about your point of view.

I stated the reasons why they would engage/are interested these debates/discussions that affect their daily lives in many ways. Now whether their claims/reasons are true or not is off-topicish, since the question is whether it's choice or not, that's why I don't try to defend these statements because it's irrelevant to the point I'm making.

You wanted the reasons why, I gave the reasons why. Now we can get back to the topic at hand . Rather than going off to marriage/bullies etc be. We shouldn't make the debate more complicated than it already is.
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Posted 3/20/12

LalaSatalin wrote:

Lala thinks it's strange how people care if it's a choice or not. Does it matter? It doesn't change that homosexuals will be homosexual anyway! Lala thinks the true matter is whether it is okay or not! Respectfully, it is not okay. On a dignity basis of being born a human being, it is not okay to commit homosexual acts! To be homosexual is to neglect dignity! It is like insulting your own heritage!


You make quite a claim, yet you come with no proof.
Where in homosexuality is there no dignity? And if there is such a case, is there nothing in hetrosexuality that has no dignity?
And since when is a human obligated to respect their heritage? Heritage is forced upon someone, you have no picking in heritage, so why should you respect it?

Now I do not understand why you think this debate, and the answer of this debate matters, especially for an anti-homosexual person (sorry for using that to describe you, but I don't know a different way, my apologies again) like you.
You don't want homosexuality to be acceptable, and you want it to be treated.
But to treat something you first need to understand it, so if you want it treated, then you better find out whether it's genetic or psychological.

Now the reason for me why I care, is because I think it is important I understand my fellow humanbeings, whenether they are straight, gay, black or white, and all the other variations you have.

Knowledge is always important.
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Posted 3/20/12
I'm rather annoyed by the massive slew of kids pretending to be bisexual because they think it's cool.
It's not a trend, folks.
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Posted 3/20/12

Traiano wrote:

LOL you totally missed my point. The point of debates is not to change the fact that they are homosexual but to inform or educate more people about your point of view.

I stated the reasons why they would engage/are interested these debates/discussions that affect their daily lives in many ways. Now whether their claims/reasons are true or not is off-topicish, since the question is whether it's choice or not, that's why I don't try to defend these statements because it's irrelevant to the point I'm making.

You wanted the reasons why, I gave the reasons why. Now we can get back to the topic at hand . Rather than going off to marriage/bullies etc be. We shouldn't make the debate more complicated than it already is.


Lala was asking why they focus on the origins of homosexuality. Because if it was proven to be not genetic, it's not like they are going to give up.
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Posted 3/20/12

amersfoort wrote:

You make quite a claim, yet you come with no proof.
Where in homosexuality is there no dignity? And if there is such a case, is there nothing in hetrosexuality that has no dignity?
And since when is a human obligated to respect their heritage? Heritage is forced upon someone, you have no picking in heritage, so why should you respect it?

Now I do not understand why you think this debate, and the answer of this debate matters, especially for an anti-homosexual person (sorry for using that to describe you, but I don't know a different way, my apologies again) like you.
You don't want homosexuality to be acceptable, and you want it to be treated.
But to treat something you first need to understand it, so if you want it treated, then you better find out whether it's genetic or psychological.

Now the reason for me why I care, is because I think it is important I understand my fellow humanbeings, whenether they are straight, gay, black or white, and all the other variations you have.

Knowledge is always important.


Lala was trying to make a point that homosexual people should argue whether it's okay or not, and not leave all the weight on the origins of homosexuality. Everyone commits acts that are against dignity once in awhile, but that does not mean it should be accepted as normal. Insulting one's own heritage is showing no dignity, similar to insulting one's own family.
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Posted 3/20/12 , edited 3/20/12

LalaSatalin wrote:Lala doesn't need a definition for science. Lala was asking why all the homosexuals care so much to debate whether it is genetic or preference, when either way it doesn't change the fact that they are homosexual.
I already answered this question for you. The answer is: they don't care, since your're right that doesn't change someones sexual orientation whether people think one way or another.

*BUT* they do care about it and have every right to prove them wrong when someone comes along, with an agenda and biased viewpoint based on phobia and superstition, to say that homosexuality is a choice. There is a point to this, if homosexuality is a choice and lots of people are hard pressed to try to prove it is (by lying and manipulating "scientific data" to their ends). And those reasons are:
1) They don't feel gay people should be able to adopt children, because one could "choose" to be straight instead of "corrupting" children with their "lifestyle."
2) A same sex marriage isn't legitimate if one could simply "choose" to fall in love with someone of the opposite sex.
3) If everybody "chooses" to be straight, there would be no more "straight" people having to watch gays perform displays of affection to a person of the same sex in public.
You see, all these are pointed out in the context that it's just as absurd to think that heterosexuality is a choice, while so many heterosexuals claim that gays are that way by choice.
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Posted 3/21/12

JustineKo2 wrote:

I already answered this question for you. The answer is: they don't care, since your're right that doesn't change someones sexual orientation whether people think one way or another.

*BUT* they do care about it and have every right to prove them wrong when someone comes along, with an agenda and biased viewpoint based on phobia and superstition, to say that homosexuality is a choice. There is a point to this, if homosexuality is a choice and lots of people are hard pressed to try to prove it is (by lying and manipulating "scientific data" to their ends). And those reasons are:
1) They don't feel gay people should be able to adopt children, because one could "choose" to be straight instead of "corrupting" children with their "lifestyle."


But Lala was pointing out that the origins of homosexuality would have no relevance to whether it would corrupt the child's lifestyle. That is why Lala was saying that the homosexual community should start discussing why it is okay for society, and not whether it is genetic.
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Posted 3/21/12

LalaSatalin wrote:


amersfoort wrote:

You make quite a claim, yet you come with no proof.
Where in homosexuality is there no dignity? And if there is such a case, is there nothing in hetrosexuality that has no dignity?
And since when is a human obligated to respect their heritage? Heritage is forced upon someone, you have no picking in heritage, so why should you respect it?

Now I do not understand why you think this debate, and the answer of this debate matters, especially for an anti-homosexual person (sorry for using that to describe you, but I don't know a different way, my apologies again) like you.
You don't want homosexuality to be acceptable, and you want it to be treated.
But to treat something you first need to understand it, so if you want it treated, then you better find out whether it's genetic or psychological.

Now the reason for me why I care, is because I think it is important I understand my fellow humanbeings, whenether they are straight, gay, black or white, and all the other variations you have.

Knowledge is always important.


Lala was trying to make a point that homosexual people should argue whether it's okay or not, and not leave all the weight on the origins of homosexuality. Everyone commits acts that are against dignity once in awhile, but that does not mean it should be accepted as normal. Insulting one's own heritage is showing no dignity, similar to insulting one's own family.


You have not shown me in your reply, why hertiage and dignity are important, or even how homosexuality affects either of those concepts.
I urge you to do so, for your points are in my eyes too shallow to even hold the vaguest form of an argument.
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Posted 3/21/12

amersfoort wrote:

You have not shown me in your reply, why hertiage and dignity are important, or even how homosexuality affects either of those concepts.
I urge you to do so, for your points are in my eyes too shallow to even hold the vaguest form of an argument.


Well firstly Lala believes that one should respect the process of how one was born. But please bring this debate to the other thread with your other post because Lala is tired of having multiple different discussions.
Posted 3/21/12

amersfoort wrote:



You have not shown me in your reply, why hertiage and dignity are important, or even how homosexuality affects either of those concepts.
I urge you to do so, for your points are in my eyes too shallow to even hold the vaguest form of an argument.
Well the history of Anglo Americans' oppression and assimilation on aboriginal homosexuals, might give you a clue on how bullies need a scapegoat to establish their dominance.

Two-Spirits in American Indian Culture
Educational film with sociological focus on Two-Spirits in American Indian society both past and present.
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