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Christianity
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Posted 3/14/12 , edited 3/14/12



Personally I think it is our duty as gifted Christians to convert as many people as possible to Christians



what about those like me who don't want to convert to Christianity?
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Posted 3/14/12 , edited 3/14/12
What's with these noname posters anyway, like the one with "Being a Christian [fucktard] is a privilege that entails responsibility, not a right" as their status? I'm not going to bother responding, quoting or interacting with that poster. He/she is just a drive-by bigot who doesn't even have the gall to become part of the forum community.
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Posted 3/15/12

wrote:

Personally I think it is our duty as gifted Christians to convert as many people as possible to Christians. I find Christians who support "freedom of religion" hypocritical. Essentially anyone who doesn't attempt conversion is a murderer, an evil devil. That's why there's barely any true Christians on this earth left.

You're lucky enough to be able to believe in God. You're lucky enough to be able to go to heaven. What is wrong with you? I think we should bring as many people along with us to heaven.

It brings pain my heart to see "friendship" among Christians and people of contrary beliefs.


The statement that you find freedom of religion hypocritical shows me what kind of danger christianity and all other religions actually pose on humanity. Now you leave me wondering, your god gave us freedom of choice, now who are you to take away that gift from us?

Posted 3/15/12

shinto-male wrote:

what about those like me who don't want to convert to Christianity?

I pity their poor souls. The world started off as a utopia, however the disaster that no one has yet pinpointed in the shadows of history caused an inflation of anti-Christian beliefs. Hence my belief that being a Christian in this generation entails a heavy responsibility. It's unfortunate that human psychology makes it difficult to convert otherwise Christians, leaving millions of people a victim of an innocent phase of rebellion.


JustineKo2 wrote:

What's with these noname posters anyway, like the one with "Being a Christian [fucktard] is a privilege that entails responsibility, not a right" as their status? I'm not going to bother responding, quoting or interacting with that poster. He/she is just a drive-by bigot who doesn't even have the gall to become part of the forum community.

Apologies. I was looking for a username that portrays individuality, so I was unsatisfied with my previous username. If you have no intention of quoting my post that's perfectly fine, I just want you to know that I did not mean to "drive-by".


amersfoort wrote:

The statement that you find freedom of religion hypocritical shows me what kind of danger christianity and all other religions actually pose on humanity. Now you leave me wondering, your god gave us freedom of choice, now who are you to take away that gift from us?

I was following you perfectly until you mentioned that Christianity poses danger on humanity. Tell me, what do you consider "humanity"? Are you only referring to our physical presence on this earth and superficial interactions? God did certainly give us freedom of choice, as it was a test on the human faith. Rather than phrasing it negatively as "taking away the gift", I'd rather you say that people should work together in order to allow all of us to peacefully go to heaven in our afterlives. It's essentially, like I stated, a test. Did you know that all social interactions pose influence on one's beliefs? That's not "taking away" anything. It's called nurture.
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Posted 3/15/12
First to answer your question, I consider humanity as the people, like you, me, the pope, Assad (that guy from Syria), my house-mates, classmates. Every person on earth basically.
And yes with that I do referr to the only life we have, our life on this planet right now, and not some wishfull thinking afterlife.

I understand that as a religious person you would love to see the world work together towards you personally favored indoctrination, but the key words you use is ''work together''. The freedom of religion allows you to be able to work together, however it doesn't allow you to force people in to your indoctrination, that's what freedom of religion means, and that's what you find hypocritical.

In my understanding, freedom of choice as given by your made up god, means that one should receive all the information available, and then make a choice, because only then an actual choice can be made by the person in question, instead of a person making a choice because of indoctrination or force.

Now to say that this life of ours is simply a test sounds very condescending to me. Is your life now nothing worth? Nothing but a pathetic test, such as the likes of a labrat.
No, my life is worth much more than that, and unfortunatly yours as well.

And besides that, is heaven your only goal in life? Do you never do good because of the simple fact that it's good to do good? What kind of morality is that? Only doing good because you might get rewarded or punished?
Posted 3/15/12

amersfoort wrote:

First to answer your question, I consider humanity as the people, like you, me, the pope, Assad (that guy from Syria), my house-mates, classmates. Every person on earth basically.
And yes with that I do referr to the only life we have, our life on this planet right now, and not some wishfull thinking afterlife.

I understand that as a religious person you would love to see the world work together towards you personally favored indoctrination, but the key words you use is ''work together''. The freedom of religion allows you to be able to work together, however it doesn't allow you to force people in to your indoctrination, that's what freedom of religion means, and that's what you find hypocritical.

In my understanding, freedom of choice as given by your made up god, means that one should receive all the information available, and then make a choice, because only then an actual choice can be made by the person in question, instead of a person making a choice because of indoctrination or force.

Now to say that this life of ours is simply a test sounds very condescending to me. Is your life now nothing worth? Nothing but a pathetic test, such as the likes of a labrat.
No, my life is worth much more than that, and unfortunatly yours as well.

And besides that, is heaven your only goal in life? Do you never do good because of the simple fact that it's good to do good? What kind of morality is that? Only doing good because you might get rewarded or punished?


Now that I've got your answer, I can safely conclude that you've got an immoral and incorrect perspective of "humanity". Humanity isn't merely human bodies walking around and interacting while the world revolves around you and your mind. That's selfish and egocentric. We all have feelings, emotions, and our own consciousness. In other words, we all desire eternal happiness. Tell me, how can sharing Christian beliefs with one another so that all of us safely go to heaven, be a "danger" to humanity?

When I brought up freedom of religion, I was implying that it was a hypocritical notion followed by hypocritical "Christians". It makes me cringe when I see Christians socialising on this earth with "friends" of contrary beliefs, knowing that they will not meet in the afterlife. It's evil and wrong.

Like I said, "force" and "taking away" brings forth a negative connotation, and it doesn't justify your point. You should stop imposing words of negative implication in order to justify your beliefs; it's only misleading, prejudicial and irrational. Truth does not require rhetoric, and it's only showing me that your subconscious knows that you are wrong. I'm not being harsh here, I'm honestly trying to help you out.

Heaven is my only goal in life? No. My "life" as of now is to live happily, and convert and allow others to reach eternal happiness in the afterlife along with myself. I don't want my companions to go to hell. It's just wrong.
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Posted 3/15/12

lIlIlIIlI wrote:


amersfoort wrote:

First to answer your question, I consider humanity as the people, like you, me, the pope, Assad (that guy from Syria), my house-mates, classmates. Every person on earth basically.
And yes with that I do referr to the only life we have, our life on this planet right now, and not some wishfull thinking afterlife.

I understand that as a religious person you would love to see the world work together towards you personally favored indoctrination, but the key words you use is ''work together''. The freedom of religion allows you to be able to work together, however it doesn't allow you to force people in to your indoctrination, that's what freedom of religion means, and that's what you find hypocritical.

In my understanding, freedom of choice as given by your made up god, means that one should receive all the information available, and then make a choice, because only then an actual choice can be made by the person in question, instead of a person making a choice because of indoctrination or force.

Now to say that this life of ours is simply a test sounds very condescending to me. Is your life now nothing worth? Nothing but a pathetic test, such as the likes of a labrat.
No, my life is worth much more than that, and unfortunatly yours as well.

And besides that, is heaven your only goal in life? Do you never do good because of the simple fact that it's good to do good? What kind of morality is that? Only doing good because you might get rewarded or punished?


Now that I've got your answer, I can safely conclude that you've got an immoral and incorrect perspective of "humanity". Humanity isn't merely human bodies walking around and interacting while the world revolves around you and your mind. That's selfish and egocentric. We all have feelings, emotions, and our own consciousness. In other words, we all desire eternal happiness. Tell me, how can sharing Christian beliefs with one another so that all of us safely go to heaven, be a "danger" to humanity?

When I brought up freedom of religion, I was implying that it was a hypocritical notion followed by hypocritical "Christians". It makes me cringe when I see Christians socialising on this earth with "friends" of contrary beliefs, knowing that they will not meet in the afterlife. It's evil and wrong.

Like I said, "force" and "taking away" brings forth a negative connotation, and it doesn't justify your point. You should stop imposing words of negative implication in order to justify your beliefs; it's only misleading, prejudicial and irrational. Truth does not require rhetoric, and it's only showing me that your subconscious knows that you are wrong. I'm not being harsh here, I'm honestly trying to help you out.

Heaven is my only goal in life? No. My "life" as of now is to live happily, and convert and allow others to reach eternal happiness in the afterlife along with myself. I don't want my companions to go to hell. It's just wrong.


Humanity simply the human body and what those bodies feel, the universe (not the world silly goose) doesn't revolve around anyone or anything and especially not me. The universe and we simply exist, and that is as far as my knowledge goes and I am a 100% sure that that is how far your knowledge goes.
It's funny how you call me immoral, and with funny I mean arrogant, perhaps even an insult. Who are you to judge what is moral and what is immoral? Even from the point of a theist only your god should be able to make that decision, I fear that you have quite an ego.

Sharing your christian belief has brought upon humanity crusades, witchburnings, hanging of blacks and homosexuals, even today wars are fought with christianity in mind (thank you Bush), that is what is wrong with it, and what always will be wrong with it. Instead of focussing on your desire to go to heaven as fast as possible, focus your life on what is here, what is now, what is beautifull, what is good, what is pure and what is truth.

And how is it wrong to socialize with other beings even if they have other beliefs? And how are you so certain they will not meet in the after life? Doesn't your god make that decision? Or else please enlighten me, what source of knowledge do you have that the rest of the world has not?

I do not see how taking away the freedom of religion (wich should be done if some one is a christian else they are a hypocrite as told by you) can ever sound positive. It's simply too hard for me to do, and I am sorry for that.

Now here we come to an incredible insult you launch at me, you accuse me of believing in a god and honestly, I've never been insulted to that extent.
But how can I proof I do not except by saying I do not? But let use your childish (even though you are 39) argument against you.
You show on an other topic some homophobic behaviour, now the rumor goes that extreme homophobic people are actually homosexuals themselves. This doesn't sound like a very sound argument at all does it? So let's leave such pathetic arguments or even attempts at insults at the doorstep.

And mind your manners please, it's all fine and great that you think you're trying to help me, but first ask if I might want to be helped, it's plain rude to force yourself into the helping position.

And your last statement just shows your arrogance yet again, you claim to know the only way of going to your paradise, how so? Does Ghandi who wasn't a christian yet brought peace to the indian people not going to your heaven? Does doing good mean nothing compared to conversion? What kind of a terrible god is that?

Now i've been on the defense here, but let me ask you a question.
What is your proof for being right?
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31 / M / Toronto, Canada
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Posted 3/15/12

I pity their poor souls. The world started off as a utopia, however the disaster that no one has yet pinpointed in the shadows of history caused an inflation of anti-Christian beliefs. Hence my belief that being a Christian in this generation entails a heavy responsibility. It's unfortunate that human psychology makes it difficult to convert otherwise Christians, leaving millions of people a victim of an innocent phase of rebellion.


the world didn't start off as a utopia, archeological and historical research and evidence debunked that claim amd how can people rebell against your god who is invisible and cannot be seen and who never left any existent of his belief? the book of genesis is copied from Mesopotamian myths and legends
Posted 3/15/12

amersfoort wrote:

Humanity simply the human body and what those bodies feel, the universe (not the world silly goose) doesn't revolve around anyone or anything and especially not me. The universe and we simply exist, and that is as far as my knowledge goes and I am a 100% sure that that is how far your knowledge goes.
It's funny how you call me immoral, and with funny I mean arrogant, perhaps even an insult. Who are you to judge what is moral and what is immoral? Even from the point of a theist only your god should be able to make that decision, I fear that you have quite an ego.

Sharing your christian belief has brought upon humanity crusades, witchburnings, hanging of blacks and homosexuals, even today wars are fought with christianity in mind (thank you Bush), that is what is wrong with it, and what always will be wrong with it. Instead of focussing on your desire to go to heaven as fast as possible, focus your life on what is here, what is now, what is beautifull, what is good, what is pure and what is truth.

And how is it wrong to socialize with other beings even if they have other beliefs? And how are you so certain they will not meet in the after life? Doesn't your god make that decision? Or else please enlighten me, what source of knowledge do you have that the rest of the world has not?

I do not see how taking away the freedom of religion (wich should be done if some one is a christian else they are a hypocrite as told by you) can ever sound positive. It's simply too hard for me to do, and I am sorry for that.

Now here we come to an incredible insult you launch at me, you accuse me of believing in a god and honestly, I've never been insulted to that extent.
But how can I proof I do not except by saying I do not? But let use your childish (even though you are 39) argument against you.
You show on an other topic some homophobic behaviour, now the rumor goes that extreme homophobic people are actually homosexuals themselves. This doesn't sound like a very sound argument at all does it? So let's leave such pathetic arguments or even attempts at insults at the doorstep.

And mind your manners please, it's all fine and great that you think you're trying to help me, but first ask if I might want to be helped, it's plain rude to force yourself into the helping position.

And your last statement just shows your arrogance yet again, you claim to know the only way of going to your paradise, how so? Does Ghandi who wasn't a christian yet brought peace to the indian people not going to your heaven? Does doing good mean nothing compared to conversion? What kind of a terrible god is that?

Now i've been on the defense here, but let me ask you a question.
What is your proof for being right?


Who has the right to judge what is moral or immoral? As you say, it is only God. Where did I "judge" on what is right or wrong? You're making no sense whatsoever. If it is "arrogant" to consider something immoral, then according to your logic you are the one saturated with arrogance.

What is wrong with Christians socialising with people of other beliefs? Don't you understand? The Christians are laughing, playing games with their friends, building a "bond", knowing that they will not meet in heaven. Because if you aren't a Christian, you go to hell. Don't you consider this immoral? Or is it too "arrogant" to consider something immoral as you say?

Asking for "proof" of morals is ridiculous. You're not following natural beliefs. Morality is a subject that is not "proven" through evidence. Although inconsistencies in your ideology, certainly is a proof that you're being irrational. (not sure if this is the same thread, though)
Posted 3/15/12

shinto-male wrote:

the world didn't start off as a utopia, archeological and historical research and evidence debunked that claim amd how can people rebell against your god who is invisible and cannot be seen and who never left any existent of his belief? the book of genesis is copied from Mesopotamian myths and legends


Atheism is an increasing trend.
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Posted 3/15/12

lIlIlIIlI wrote:


amersfoort wrote:

Humanity simply the human body and what those bodies feel, the universe (not the world silly goose) doesn't revolve around anyone or anything and especially not me. The universe and we simply exist, and that is as far as my knowledge goes and I am a 100% sure that that is how far your knowledge goes.
It's funny how you call me immoral, and with funny I mean arrogant, perhaps even an insult. Who are you to judge what is moral and what is immoral? Even from the point of a theist only your god should be able to make that decision, I fear that you have quite an ego.

Sharing your christian belief has brought upon humanity crusades, witchburnings, hanging of blacks and homosexuals, even today wars are fought with christianity in mind (thank you Bush), that is what is wrong with it, and what always will be wrong with it. Instead of focussing on your desire to go to heaven as fast as possible, focus your life on what is here, what is now, what is beautifull, what is good, what is pure and what is truth.

And how is it wrong to socialize with other beings even if they have other beliefs? And how are you so certain they will not meet in the after life? Doesn't your god make that decision? Or else please enlighten me, what source of knowledge do you have that the rest of the world has not?

I do not see how taking away the freedom of religion (wich should be done if some one is a christian else they are a hypocrite as told by you) can ever sound positive. It's simply too hard for me to do, and I am sorry for that.

Now here we come to an incredible insult you launch at me, you accuse me of believing in a god and honestly, I've never been insulted to that extent.
But how can I proof I do not except by saying I do not? But let use your childish (even though you are 39) argument against you.
You show on an other topic some homophobic behaviour, now the rumor goes that extreme homophobic people are actually homosexuals themselves. This doesn't sound like a very sound argument at all does it? So let's leave such pathetic arguments or even attempts at insults at the doorstep.

And mind your manners please, it's all fine and great that you think you're trying to help me, but first ask if I might want to be helped, it's plain rude to force yourself into the helping position.

And your last statement just shows your arrogance yet again, you claim to know the only way of going to your paradise, how so? Does Ghandi who wasn't a christian yet brought peace to the indian people not going to your heaven? Does doing good mean nothing compared to conversion? What kind of a terrible god is that?

Now i've been on the defense here, but let me ask you a question.
What is your proof for being right?


Who has the right to judge what is moral or immoral? As you say, it is only God. Where did I "judge" on what is right or wrong? You're making no sense whatsoever. If it is "arrogant" to consider something immoral, then according to your logic you are the one saturated with arrogance.

What is wrong with Christians socialising with people of other beliefs? Don't you understand? The Christians are laughing, playing games with their friends, building a "bond", knowing that they will not meet in heaven. Because if you aren't a Christian, you go to hell. Don't you consider this immoral? Or is it too "arrogant" to consider something immoral as you say?

Asking for "proof" of morals is ridiculous. You're not following natural beliefs. Morality is a subject that is not "proven" through evidence. Although inconsistencies in your ideology, certainly is a proof that you're being irrational. (not sure if this is the same thread, though)


Perhaps I created a missunderstanding, my apologies for that, I was talking from your point of view, you claim that it's cruel of christians to socialize with people from different faiths because it is certain the others will go to hell. Now (in your point of view) only ''god'' can know who goes to hell or heaven. Simply telling others that they go to hell implies that you see yourself at the same level of your god. (again not my viewpoint)

Now from my point of view there is no actual ''good'' or ''evil'', it's unfortunate, but there isn't an objective being that can tell us what is good or wrong. However, we are all capable of finding things wrong or good. This might be slightly arrogant because it means we might look slightly down on others. Every human has to find for him/herself what is good and what is wrong, and the best thing for humanity is to be on the same level as the rest, so that we can all agree on what is good and what is wrong. This ofcourse till we are prooven that our morality against isn't correct and in that case we will change (abolish slavery for example).
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Posted 3/15/12

_SupaDupa_ wrote:

I consider myself a religious person( go to church 2 times a week and on holidays), but I am not a "Jesus Freak".

Its always nice to see someone that finds a religion and something they can believe in, but I cannot cosign individuals that try to push religion on people. I don't think you can force faith. Extremist in most things, not just religion, give off bad perceptions.

I also don't believe in a "superior" religion.


same here. I don't force religion on to people, but I offer assistance to those in depression or on the verge of disbelief. I'm not a Jesus freak. I honestly think *most (not all) religions are somewhat connected, but thats my own opinion. Extremists, the human aspect of religion, give religion (on an intangible level) in general a bad name.

"you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
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Posted 3/15/12 , edited 3/15/12
@ lIlIlIIlI (how do you pronounce that?), you keep suggesting that there are different types of Christians, and that there's evil inherent in the mixing and camaraderie of people who overlook each other's differences. That viewpoint totally reeks of xenophobia, bigotry (I was right) and racism that's a throwback even compared to the days of "separate but equal" laws. Face it, everybody is unique. You call it evil, I call it good. I think there's too much separatism and fear even between people of the same denomination within their respective religions. When more involved in fellowship communities, I was dismayed by all the backtalking, and sneering remarks about people just because they went to a different church.

No there is no responsibility of any sort in being a Christian. It's a personal choice to believe or not, no one is better or worse for whatever they believe or not. I'm an atheist and I am of no lesser or greater value in this world than the most devout, sanctified, word-for-word bible literalist, born-again Christian there is. And we all share the same fate after we die.

I happen to be gifted with the knowledge this is true, but of course you don't believe it, you're a Christian. You've chosen a way of life that makes you happy, good for you. Part of my happiness comes from knowing life is the here and now until we die and when that time comes it's over. Put yourself in those shoes. There's no need to "help" others toward a false, deceptive dead-end of the afterlife myth. If an atheist did that they would be stepping into the realm of insanity and sadism. Simple as that.
Posted 3/15/12

JustineKo2 wrote:

@ lIlIlIIlI (how do you pronounce that?), you keep suggesting that there are different types of Christians, and that there's evil inherent in the mixing and camaraderie of people who overlook each other's differences. That viewpoint totally reeks of xenophobia, bigotry (I was right) and racism that's a throwback even compared to the days of "separate but equal" laws. Face it, everybody is unique. You call it evil, I call it good. I think there's too much separatism and fear even between people of the same denomination within their respective religions. When more involved in fellowship communities, I was dismayed by all the backtalking, and sneering remarks about people just because they went to a different church.

No there is no responsibility of any sort in being a Christian. It's a personal choice to believe or not, no one is better or worse for whatever they believe or not. I'm an atheist and I am of no lesser or greater value in this world than the most devout, sanctified, word-for-word bible literalist, born-again Christian there is. And we all share the same fate after we die.
I hope that these two fellow atheists' ideas may renew your spirit on the self-actualization a self-transcendence of a moral atheist.

Jonathan Haidt: Religion, evolution, and the ecstasy of self-transcendence
Psychologist Jonathan Haidt asks a simple, but difficult question: why do we search for self-transcendence? Why do we attempt to lose ourselves? In a tour through the science of evolution by group selection, he proposes a provocative answer.

Alain de Botton: Atheism 2.0
What aspects of religion should atheists (respectfully) adopt? Alain de Botton suggests a "religion for atheists" -- call it Atheism 2.0 -- that incorporates religious forms and traditions to satisfy our human need for connection, ritual and transcendence.
So be as complex and diverse as evolution meant for us to become more flexible. Cheers.
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I'm Christian, and I think it's fantastic that there are so many religions and even Christian sects in this world. The Bible alone (which is the holy text for only a percentage of the world's religions) is a highly interpretive (interpretable? Sorry, ESL student here) piece of literature in the first place--there is no way that all of us who believe in the same God will even agree on our ideas on what He is like.

I mean, if we all thought the same way in regards to something so culturally important as religion, I don't think the world would be as awesome as it is today. Now if we would stop killing each other over these differences, that would be ideal.

Idealism aside, yes, I would love to share my beliefs with others and am always willing to--but only if they want to hear what I have to say. Forcing someone to listen to you is not the greatest way to have them actually believe in what you say, which is kind of the point of "conversion" (what an unlikable word). I...I personally think (and I'm not saying that God--the Christian God--feels the same way) that I would rather have someone choose to love me instead of being forced to love me. Heck, I'd probably prefer that person to outright hate me rather than to grudgingly accept me.

And while we're on that I have absolutely no issue with atheists whatsoever; it is only anti-theists that I dislike. There is a difference, and a lot of people flirt with that border. It's one thing to believe that no god exists and another thing entirely to belittle the theistic beliefs of others.


Well, there's my two cents. Is it two cents? I don't remember.
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