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The Karma Thread...
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Posted 1/6/12 , edited 1/6/12
Karma was mentioned in the Christian thread, and I'm trying to follow the rules by not starting a new topic within another. So I want to know more. I kinda looked at Karma as natural consequences in life and at play in the now. Dom Fortress corrected me with: "the Hindu faith is rebirth as a lower caste after reincarnation". Alupihan45 shares that "your karma is determined before you are conceived not before you are born. That is the karma system" Then I read an article, 20 Ways to Get Good Karma ( http://www.spiritualnow.com/articles/25/1/20-Ways-to-Get-Good-Karma/Page1.html ) which certainly seems to pertain to this present life. Which is it? And is my interpretation clouded by Western ideas? (((((HUGS))))) sandi~not a believer in Karma but always wanting to learn about the world around me!
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Posted 1/6/12
karma is hard to explain, but if karma is real then it isn't a "good things happen to those who do good things" kind of thing but it might just be a complex way of reprisenting justice or something im not really sure im young and still have alot more to experience but when people say karma i think of the yin yang so it might reprisent balance as well, i think karma is different to everyone so my explanation is useless even if it is somehow good (which it isn't)
Posted 1/7/12
Karma is action or deed that causes the entire cycle of cause and effect. This is part of Hindi, Jain, Buddhist, and Sikh philosophies.
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Posted 1/7/12

DeusExMachine wrote:

Karma is action or deed that causes the entire cycle of cause and effect. This is part of Hindi, Jain, Buddhist, and Sikh philosophies.


Indeed pretty much what you've said is true in regards from Buddhist teachings anyway from what I've learned, also Karma works in mysterious ways too.
Posted 1/7/12

meman887 wrote:


DeusExMachine wrote:

Karma is action or deed that causes the entire cycle of cause and effect. This is part of Hindi, Jain, Buddhist, and Sikh philosophies.


Indeed pretty much what you've said is true in regards from Buddhist teachings anyway from what I've learned, also Karma works in mysterious ways too.


It can be viewed similarly to Ouroboros, the symbol of a snake devouring itself. What goes around, comes around.



Or this happy, little image.
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Posted 1/7/12
I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.
Posted 1/7/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Because apparently, pessimists are more accurate than optimists. Good deeds are merely viewed anymore as hypocritical self-servitude. And returning the favor is not a gesture of gratefulness, it is only paying back a debt.
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Posted 1/7/12 , edited 1/7/12

DeusExMachine wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Because apparently, pessimists are more accurate than optimists. Good deeds are merely viewed anymore as hypocritical self-servitude. And returning the favor is not a gesture of gratefulness, it is only paying back a debt.


Seems like kind of a nihilistic way of looking at things...
And while it might be true for some people, it's not for all. I know that at least I personally have "returned a favor" simply because I was grateful. Of corse, there have been instances of I only doing so because it's "required" by social protocol, but it's not something that is a definite thing without exceptions.

And I dunno, I consider myself as more of an optimist than a pessimist. Not implying that I'm always correct, or even most of the time, but I'm pretty confident in my "mainstream karma is bullshit" claim...
Posted 1/8/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DeusExMachine wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Because apparently, pessimists are more accurate than optimists. Good deeds are merely viewed anymore as hypocritical self-servitude. And returning the favor is not a gesture of gratefulness, it is only paying back a debt.


Seems like kind of a nihilistic way of looking at things...
And while it might be true for some people, it's not for all. I know that at least I personally have "returned a favor" simply because I was grateful. Of corse, there have been instances of I only doing so because it's "required" by social protocol, but it's not something that is a definite thing without exceptions.

And I dunno, I consider myself as more of an optimist than a pessimist. Not implying that I'm always correct, or even most of the time, but I'm pretty confident in my "mainstream karma is bullshit" claim...


The protocol most seem to follow is, "I scratch your back, you scratch mine." Now, that seems to be very mainstream to me.

And no matter how hard we try, no one is exempt from a biologically required death, but karma has nothing to do with the simplicity of, "out with the old, in with the new."

Karma also does little to effect, "being in the wrong place at the wrong time," but then again, that could be a crossing of two paths karma decided should meet.
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Posted 1/8/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Karma also works the other way, ie. if you do bad things they come back and bite you on the arse eventually, even if it might not be in this lifetime.

Personally, I find the idea of karma appealing. I like the idea of a cosmic justice system where all of the scum who have floated to the top through backstabbing and stepping on anyone who stands in their way will get some sort of comeuppance,.
Posted 1/8/12 , edited 1/8/12

maffoo wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Karma also works the other way, ie. if you do bad things they come back and bite you on the arse eventually, even if it might not be in this lifetime.

Personally, I find the idea of karma appealing. I like the idea of a cosmic justice system where all of the scum who have floated to the top through backstabbing and stepping on anyone who stands in their way will get some sort of comeuppance,.
And I assume that somehow, the fundamental monotheistic faiths will exempt and justify their War Gods and thus themselves altogether, from all the bad things that they've done in their War Gods' names from karma. Just like how they had done it throughout the history of themselves reforming and rewriting their holy scriptures.

20th Century Yahweh - How much killing is too much?
For Christians, Biblical wars waged by, and in the name of, Yahweh, are justified. Any criticism of them is viewed as the result of failing to look at the war in its correct context.

20th century wars, on the other hand, are first of all wrongly blamed upon atheism, and then cited as demonstrating its evil effect!

What if the Old Testament war-lords had had modern weaponry at their disposal? What if their numbers of dead for ancient wars matched the numbers we saw killed by the military maniacs of last century? Given 20th century military resources, would Joshua, Gideon, etc, not have used them to similar effect? And would they still be revered after having done so?

If Moses or King David had killed the same number people as Hitler, or Stalin, would Christians be as happy to hold them up as heroes?

How far can Holy War go before it becomes unholy?

3.3.3 Atheism: A History of God (Part 1)
I(as in the author of this video, and not me) explain how I learned from A History of God by Karen Armstrong that the evidence indicates that the Jewish concept of monotheism evolved from the syncretism of various polytheistic sources like Canaanite and Babylonian polytheism.

3.3.3 Atheism: A History of God (Part 2)
I explain why I stopped using the word "God" to describe anything correlated with a reality outside of our own minds, pending evidence that would persuade me to do so.

However, one unifying social psychology theory can explain and understand these fundamental monotheistic faith believers and their manifestation of organized aggression and violence: terror management theory.

Sheldon Solomon - Ernest Becker & The Denial of Death
Terror Management Theory (TMT) was proposed in 1986 by social psychologists Jeff Greenberg, Tom Pyszczynski, and Sheldon Solomon. The theory was inspired by the writings of cultural anthropologist, Ernest Becker, and was initiated by two relatively simple questions: Why do people have such a great need to feel good about themselves?; and Why do people have so much trouble getting along with those different from themselves?

The basic gist of the theory is that humans are motivated to quell the potential for terror inherent in the human awareness of vulnerability and mortality by investing in cultural belief systems (or worldviews) that imbue life with meaning, and the individuals who subscribe to them with significance (or self-esteem). Since its inception, the theory has generated empirical research into not just the nature of self-esteem motivation and prejudice, but also a host of other forms of human social behavior. To date, over 300 studies conducted in over a dozen countries have explored such topics as aggression, stereotyping, needs for structure and meaning, depression and psychopathology (e.g., phobias), political preferences, creativity, sexuality and attraction, romantic and interpersonal attachment, self-awareness, unconscious cognition, martyrdom, religion, group identification, disgust, human-nature relations, physical health, risk taking, and legal judgments.
What this means is that even the man-made monotheistic War Gods and their fundamental faith believers are no exemption from the all unifying karma, as long as their mere existence is caused through the manifestation from it. While they themselves lack the power of vulnerability, to breakaway from their vicious and antisocial cycle of conquest through belittlement to assimilation, and ultimately through organized and institutionalized aggression and violence.

A Powerful Message From Samuel L. Jackson Stop The Violence
Books Over Bullets
Let's break the cycle.

Brene Brown: The power of vulnerability
Brene Brown studies human connection -- our ability to empathize, belong, love. In a poignant, funny talk at TEDxHouston, she shares a deep insight from her research, one that sent her on a personal quest to know herself as well as to understand humanity. A talk to share.

Philip Zimbardo shows how people become monsters ... or heroes
Philip Zimbardo knows how easy it is for nice people to turn bad. In this talk, he shares insights and graphic unseen photos from the Abu Ghraib trials. Then he talks about the flip side: how easy it is to be a hero, and how we can rise to the challenge.
We're merely the manifestation of our cultural institutions, but that realization is the path towards better karma.

TEDxTC - Nate Garvis - Creating the Common Good by Habit
Common good by design not angry politics. Nate Garvis discusses how we live and thrive by public policy outcomes, not angry political inputs, and the path is to honor our community values by designing them into our daily products and services.
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Posted 1/8/12 , edited 1/8/12

maffoo wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Karma also works the other way, ie. if you do bad things they come back and bite you on the arse eventually, even if it might not be in this lifetime.

Personally, I find the idea of karma appealing. I like the idea of a cosmic justice system where all of the scum who have floated to the top through backstabbing and stepping on anyone who stands in their way will get some sort of comeuppance,.


Yeah, well that's sadly not what reality is like.
I'd like it if it were that way. If all outcomes to all people were just. But that simply isn't the way it is.

Bad things happen to good people every day, while lying, cheating backstabbers climb their way to the top of the corporate ladder while boning the wives of everyone they've screwed over...
Posted 1/8/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


maffoo wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Karma also works the other way, ie. if you do bad things they come back and bite you on the arse eventually, even if it might not be in this lifetime.

Personally, I find the idea of karma appealing. I like the idea of a cosmic justice system where all of the scum who have floated to the top through backstabbing and stepping on anyone who stands in their way will get some sort of comeuppance,.


Yeah, well that's sadly not what reality is like.
I'd like it if it were that way. If all outcomes to all people were just. But that simply isn't the way it is.

Bad things happen to good people every day, while lying, cheating backstabbers climb their way to the top of the corporate ladder while boning the wives of everyone they've screwed over...


Is it now? lol



While it is true the most "successful" of people are assholes, (whom attract women) I can't help but notice how resentful and low class they truly are. Karma, I know for a fact, is a truth happening all around us. While the worst happens to the best of us, that still is a confluence of karmic paths. The negative experiences people deal with are meant as a learning experience, so you can just so easily see how that is good karma just as much as something positive.
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Posted 1/8/12 , edited 1/8/12

DeusExMachine wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


maffoo wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Karma also works the other way, ie. if you do bad things they come back and bite you on the arse eventually, even if it might not be in this lifetime.

Personally, I find the idea of karma appealing. I like the idea of a cosmic justice system where all of the scum who have floated to the top through backstabbing and stepping on anyone who stands in their way will get some sort of comeuppance,.


Yeah, well that's sadly not what reality is like.
I'd like it if it were that way. If all outcomes to all people were just. But that simply isn't the way it is.

Bad things happen to good people every day, while lying, cheating backstabbers climb their way to the top of the corporate ladder while boning the wives of everyone they've screwed over...


Is it now? lol



While it is true the most "successful" of people are assholes, (whom attract women) I can't help but notice how resentful and low class they truly are. Karma, I know for a fact, is a truth happening all around us. While the worst happens to the best of us, that still is a confluence of karmic paths. The negative experiences people deal with are meant as a learning experience, so you can just so easily see how that is good karma just as much as something positive.


I love how you unprovocedly call me a faggot simply for not beliving in the same thing as you do. Care to explain how you find this act justified?

Furthermore, if all the bad things that happens are results of confluences of karmic paths, I suppose you can explain to me why the father of my best friend, who had never done anyone harm, got brain cancer, something that ends up sending his family into economic turmoil, which after two years of struggle kills him, leaving his wife and four children behind? Oh, and did I mention that shortly before he died, he found out that one of his friends were planning to "step into his place"?

Surely you can tell me how your lovely karma finds this just and expects us to "learn" from it?
Posted 1/8/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


DeusExMachine wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


maffoo wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:

I never understood how people could ever belive in karma. At least not in the interpretation that basicly says "If you do good deeds, good things will happen to you". Those people must be seriously out of touch with the real world.


Karma also works the other way, ie. if you do bad things they come back and bite you on the arse eventually, even if it might not be in this lifetime.

Personally, I find the idea of karma appealing. I like the idea of a cosmic justice system where all of the scum who have floated to the top through backstabbing and stepping on anyone who stands in their way will get some sort of comeuppance,.


Yeah, well that's sadly not what reality is like.
I'd like it if it were that way. If all outcomes to all people were just. But that simply isn't the way it is.

Bad things happen to good people every day, while lying, cheating backstabbers climb their way to the top of the corporate ladder while boning the wives of everyone they've screwed over...


Is it now? lol



While it is true the most "successful" of people are assholes, (whom attract women) I can't help but notice how resentful and low class they truly are. Karma, I know for a fact, is a truth happening all around us. While the worst happens to the best of us, that still is a confluence of karmic paths. The negative experiences people deal with are meant as a learning experience, so you can just so easily see how that is good karma just as much as something positive.


I love how you unprovocedly call me a faggot simply for not beliving in the same thing as you do. Care to explain how you find this act justified?

Furthermore, if all the bad things that happens are results of confluences of karmic paths, I suppose you can explain to me why the father of my best friend, who had never done anyone harm, got brain cancer, something that ends up sending his family into economic turmoil, which after two years of struggle kills him, leaving his wife and four children behind? Oh, and did I mention that shortly before he died, he found out that one of his friends were planning to "step into his place"?

Surely you can tell me how you lovely karma finds this just and expects us to "learn" from it?


It isn't justified, nor is it even on topic. Forget it.

There is no point bringing up melodrama from a friend's family into a formal discussion. But hey, that seems to be an example of karma working in such a way as to "show me" how I deserved to be so saddened by hearing about all of that. Except I feel so little, as I am not a part of said family.
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