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Worst than SOPA/PIPA, NDAA
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28 / M / Colorado, USA
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Posted 1/22/12
This is not worse than SOPA, that is quite an exaggeration. SOPA would give the US government authority over the world, and would impact every single person that uses the internet because of its ability to dictate the content of the internet. This however affects only individuals at a time. Also this isn't some dystopian law that says malcontentment is a crime. With this, you can still casually discuss US vulnerabilities in ordinary discussion without some government ninjas taking you away.

The law is still unpleasant. I'd like to know what could have possibly led up to this law, as I cannot see justified need for it in this form. There is no way it could impact me in its current form, but I do feel the worst part about it is the progressive nature of laws meaning this can pave the way for worse.
Muppe 
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38 / M / Norway
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Posted 1/22/12
Many people are clueless about this law, and how damaging it is for democracy... sorry I forgot "", it is after all "democracy" these days.
Even though I live in Norway, this law worries me. It worries me that our leaders do not condemn this law, as they should considering that it violates basic human rights. When other countries does this, sorry again I mean smaller countries, our leaders scream in anger at how any country can do this to their own citicens. This screaming often done with USA out in front... well they have now lost that right.

It also worries me since out own spineless leaders, all to often follow in the political footsteps of USA.
Posted 1/22/12
To be honest, I thought they passed that already.
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Posted 1/23/12 , edited 1/23/12
I was curious so I read it cover to cover. 970 pages. I cant say that I saw what you are talking about. Can you give me a section or quotation from the bill? It looks like a budget really. It accounts for $50 bil of the US defense budget. I did some more digging and this bill was passed last year and the year before. Then it occurred to me... Could this actually be the annual defense budget? Then if it were that would explain why I didn't read anything about extending the legal reach of our military.

Anyone's thoughts on this?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:1:./temp/~c112b7T2xC::
Ok there's the link. Please tell me where it says this stuff cuz I for the life of me could not fInd it.
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Posted 1/23/12
It's time to hide!
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 1/23/12
Let's make it simple for you.
Sopa/pipa=Removal of last bastion of free speech, one senator even admitted that he voted for it because America would be vulnerable in a war with China if it did not have an internet just like China's.

NDAA = your military and homeland security can ignore your constitution and 'disapear' people at will. It's already happened to the family of a girl who was a victim of a hit and run by some agent of your state.

Whatever Acts created homeland security= A quasi military quasi police organisation whose mandate isn't law enforcement but a more vague 'security' meaning they are not necessarily bound by 'law' or 'justice' should they choose to neutralize a security threat.

Personally I think you're living in Germany 1933+ 9/11 was your 'Reichstaag fire"

As a Canadian watching my own government sign on to the North American Security Perimeter I can't help suspecting that I'm looking at the start of an 'Anschluss'

Sorry for invoking Godwin's law but if the shoe fits...

I can't believe no one on this forum has noticed until now. as to which law is worse. I'd say NDAA since it IS law. while SOPA/PIPA is on hold. This is like argueing weather cyanide or arsenic are worse when you've already taken one of them.
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Posted 1/23/12

severancepay wrote:

I was curious so I read it cover to cover. 970 pages. I cant say that I saw what you are talking about. Can you give me a section or quotation from the bill? It looks like a budget really. It accounts for $50 bil of the US defense budget. I did some more digging and this bill was passed last year and the year before. Then it occurred to me... Could this actually be the annual defense budget? Then if it were that would explain why I didn't read anything about extending the legal reach of our military.

Anyone's thoughts on this?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:1:./temp/~c112b7T2xC::
Ok there's the link. Please tell me where it says this stuff cuz I for the life of me could not fInd it.


your link doesn't work. Search timed out.
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 1/23/12

TerraGamerX wrote:

This is not worse than SOPA, that is quite an exaggeration. SOPA would give the US government authority over the world, and would impact every single person that uses the internet because of its ability to dictate the content of the internet. This however affects only individuals at a time. Also this isn't some dystopian law that says malcontentment is a crime. With this, you can still casually discuss US vulnerabilities in ordinary discussion without some government ninjas taking you away.

The law is still unpleasant. I'd like to know what could have possibly led up to this law, as I cannot see justified need for it in this form. There is no way it could impact me in its current form, but I do feel the worst part about it is the progressive nature of laws meaning this can pave the way for worse.


It is worse because it IS law. and not proposed and possibly tabled bills about to become law.

the two together provide a nasty level of enablement for Agents of the state in the USA to ignore human and, more important legally, Constitutional rights. as they carry out the directives of the State. IF that doesn't frighten you. ..



phanAn 
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Posted 1/23/12
Indefinate detention without trial has been in effect since 911. and the then president also held this power. NDAA is just a rehash saying
the President can do this;Section 1021
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Posted 1/23/12
I agree it is against democracy for this law to be what it is.
However as long as a good natured president is elected BY THE PEOPLE. I don't think this is a major issue, The only problem is if a bad president abuses the power, and if someone does abuse it, then the people can just impeach/vote him out of office. The only people this affects(if the law is used correctly) are those who are able get around other laws(Like leaving the country) and commit acts of terrorism.
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Posted 1/23/12

phanAn wrote:

Indefinate detention without trial has been in effect since 911. and the then president also held this power. NDAA is just a rehash saying
the President can do this;Section 1021


I agree with that. I mean, this law is terrible and of course, conveniently forgets about a concept called ‘democracy’. Who voted for this law? But honestly, since the beginning of democratic history the government has been able to do that, law or no law, and no one can do anything about it because, wait, if the American Government says so, then so it is! Just take a look at the nation's history.


TerraGamerX wrote:

This is not worse than SOPA, that is quite an exaggeration. SOPA would give the US government authority over the world, and would impact every single person that uses the internet because of its ability to dictate the content of the internet. This however affects only individuals at a time. Also this isn't some dystopian law that says malcontentment is a crime. With this, you can still casually discuss US vulnerabilities in ordinary discussion without some government ninjas taking you away.

The law is still unpleasant. I'd like to know what could have possibly led up to this law, as I cannot see justified need for it in this form. There is no way it could impact me in its current form, but I do feel the worst part about it is the progressive nature of laws meaning this can pave the way for worse.


So yeah, I also agree with this. SOPA is much worse, even if it's only a *might* be. Because by controlling/limiting the internet and what we see and share online, they are controlling what we know - limiting free knowledge, as Wikipedia put it - and what power would we have left, as individuals, being completely ignorant of the world?

And SOPA/PIPA really do affect the entire world, because nowadays, yes, having authority over the internet means having authority over EVERYTHING.
phanAn 
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63 / F / OP,FL
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Posted 1/23/12
Truely..NDAA doesn't go after the average Joe and plucks him off the street. They go after the guy who buys 200 tons of fertilizer and electronic switchs and he doesn't even own a farm. or that guy who had bombs in the heels of his shoe trying to board a plane or the person who desides to take vacation in the heart of Bagdad.?? and yes these are Americans
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30 / M / Over there
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Posted 1/23/12
It`s not as bad as SOPA, ACTA(don`t leave this one out just becaus you`re not living in the EU) and PIPA.
Becaus Obama wouldn`t point his finger at just anyone before he actually has some evidence, no president would do that.
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21 / M
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Posted 1/23/12

c4nnibalism wrote:

eh who cares.
as long as i have my internetz.


True, but i live in bristol so i don't see how the NDAA effects me, it's only on US soil

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21 / M
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Posted 1/23/12 , edited 1/23/12

Des85 wrote:

It`s not as bad as SOPA, ACTA(don`t leave this one out just becaus you`re not living in the EU) and PIPA.
Becaus Obama wouldn`t point his finger at just anyone before he actually has some evidence, no president would do that.


I agree, especialy as i believe the re-elections are now or coming up? But i do agree, a president need support from the public, if they fear the president it's just a comunist country and no president want's to be responsible for that.

But what is ACTA?
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