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What happened to 1080p
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Posted 1/30/12
I have it on 1080p and I can tell that there's a quality difference from the videos a week ago. Also the video bar is a lot bigger when I go to full screen mode,an indication that it is not 1080p. The 1080p video bar is a lot smaller.Seems like 720.I know It's not a big deal but can someone tell me whats going on. is it just me, will it go back to normal. please let me know
Posted 1/30/12
Upscaling, yo.
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21 / M / Modesto California
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Posted 1/30/12
Looks better than 720p in 44 inch lcd lol
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22 / M / 風の山
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Posted 1/30/12
not all computer can handle 1080 p like not all tv can handle it. if you look at the finer details there are a tiny bit more its crisper. the bigger the screen the finer the details
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26 / M / Australia
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Posted 1/31/12
It wasn't up scaled :\ getting sick of people saying that
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34 / M / St. Louis
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Posted 1/31/12
CR already said they do not post any upscales, I am so sick of seeing people spread this nonsense. It's like when Dattebayo went on and on about how Bleach didn't air in HD back in the day, and their fanboy army went and cried UPSCALE! on every 720p Bleach release, legit or not.

Ugh.
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Posted 2/2/12
It isn't "true" 1080p (or it might be, at least it isn't on the latest Bleach episodes) but in fact 1080i due to the inability to send a full 1080 image through the satellite/cable interface of TVs. That's why the channels sends interlaced 1080 instead. This is easily seen on vertical movements on anime episodes on supposedly the 1080p setting. As I previously mentioned, the latest Bleach episode shows the horizontal stripes briefly during vertical movements that identifies the source as using interlaced scan.

If this is just limited to Bleach, or is true for the 1080p setting overall, I can't say. Though the second would most likely be true unless the TV stations rerenders every single episode using a 1920x1080 resolution with progressive scan for devices capable of transmitting and receiving "true" 1080p.
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Posted 2/5/12

Aemony wrote:

It isn't "true" 1080p (or it might be, at least it isn't on the latest Bleach episodes) but in fact 1080i due to the inability to send a full 1080 image through the satellite/cable interface of TVs. That's why the channels sends interlaced 1080 instead. This is easily seen on vertical movements on anime episodes on supposedly the 1080p setting. As I previously mentioned, the latest Bleach episode shows the horizontal stripes briefly during vertical movements that identifies the source as using interlaced scan.

If this is just limited to Bleach, or is true for the 1080p setting overall, I can't say. Though the second would most likely be true unless the TV stations rerenders every single episode using a 1920x1080 resolution with progressive scan for devices capable of transmitting and receiving "true" 1080p.


Here is a screen shot from the latest episode of Bleach at 1080p streaming on Crunchyroll. I tried to find a scene with a ton of movement. This scene has a lot of vertical and horizontally moving black boxes.

http://www.fotsubs.net/bleach1.png

You can see typical compression artifacts on the black color, but that is expected of streaming content that is highly compressed. What you do not see is any interlacing. A good example of this can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Interlaced_video_frame_(car_wheel).jpg

that car image, of course, is an extreme case. I am quite familiar with it, having owrked with telecine and inverse-telecine processes a lot. As far as resolution goes, though, here's the thing: 1080i is actually lower resolution than 720p. It's got less vertical resolution, and if this was 1080i, it would be blatantly noticeable, especially on a progressive scan display like a computer monitor.

What I think it happening is that CR is getting ahold of 1080p source material from the anime companies. I think a lot of people run with the assumption that CR's video is the same copies from Japanese TV, and they are obviously not. This is obviously not upscaled.
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Posted 2/7/12

Garylisk wrote:


Aemony wrote:

It isn't "true" 1080p (or it might be, at least it isn't on the latest Bleach episodes) but in fact 1080i due to the inability to send a full 1080 image through the satellite/cable interface of TVs. That's why the channels sends interlaced 1080 instead. This is easily seen on vertical movements on anime episodes on supposedly the 1080p setting. As I previously mentioned, the latest Bleach episode shows the horizontal stripes briefly during vertical movements that identifies the source as using interlaced scan.

If this is just limited to Bleach, or is true for the 1080p setting overall, I can't say. Though the second would most likely be true unless the TV stations rerenders every single episode using a 1920x1080 resolution with progressive scan for devices capable of transmitting and receiving "true" 1080p.


Here is a screen shot from the latest episode of Bleach at 1080p streaming on Crunchyroll. I tried to find a scene with a ton of movement. This scene has a lot of vertical and horizontally moving black boxes.

http://www.fotsubs.net/bleach1.png

You can see typical compression artifacts on the black color, but that is expected of streaming content that is highly compressed. What you do not see is any interlacing. A good example of this can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Interlaced_video_frame_(car_wheel).jpg

that car image, of course, is an extreme case. I am quite familiar with it, having owrked with telecine and inverse-telecine processes a lot. As far as resolution goes, though, here's the thing: 1080i is actually lower resolution than 720p. It's got less vertical resolution, and if this was 1080i, it would be blatantly noticeable, especially on a progressive scan display like a computer monitor.

What I think it happening is that CR is getting ahold of 1080p source material from the anime companies. I think a lot of people run with the assumption that CR's video is the same copies from Japanese TV, and they are obviously not. This is obviously not upscaled.
People just cant wrap their head around the fact its not up scaled even when its been said a load of times, I find it pretty annoying aswell.
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37 / M / Tucson, AZ
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Posted 2/12/12
I'm sure some people can give some more technical responses but basically it depends on the show if you'll see an improvement or not going to 1080p. I don't see it on Naruto. But I do see it on most every other anime I watch. I'm really don't know if Naruto is upscaled by the studio or if it's just only the background images that are scanned in HD or what's going on. Obviously it was a let down since going to 720p on Naruto I saw an obvious improvement and it looked awesome.

If you're curious you could also check out the 1080p dramas. I was really impressed with the 1080p of a Japanese mystery thriller show. However, I was a bit bored by the plot and characters and I'm back to watching anime again.
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Posted 2/12/12

kraemder wrote:

I'm sure some people can give some more technical responses but basically it depends on the show if you'll see an improvement or not going to 1080p. I don't see it on Naruto. But I do see it on most every other anime I watch. I'm really don't know if Naruto is upscaled by the studio or if it's just only the background images that are scanned in HD or what's going on. Obviously it was a let down since going to 720p on Naruto I saw an obvious improvement and it looked awesome.

If you're curious you could also check out the 1080p dramas. I was really impressed with the 1080p of a Japanese mystery thriller show. However, I was a bit bored by the plot and characters and I'm back to watching anime again.


Pretty much all long-running series are animated in lower quality due to the fact that they need to make an episode every week. They skip steps of the standard animating process and cut corners to speed up production. I read something a while back that said Naruto: Shippuden is animated in 576p. Even if a long-running series was animated 1080p it still wouldn't look as good as an average 1080p 12 or 24 episode series due to all of the steps they skip in the animation process resulting in a lower quality picture. So basically 1080p is mostly pointless on Naruto, Bleach, etc..

Even 12/24 episode series don't benefit that much from Crunchyroll offering 1080p video. Most series are animated in 720p with 1080p background images, so only the backgrounds are improved by viewing in 1080p for those series. Very few series are animated in higher than 720p, but for those series 1080p would probably be a decent improvement in quality.
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34 / M / St. Louis
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Posted 2/13/12
I think there's a lack of understanding here. I am pretty sure the original animation is done in an animation program using a lot of vector art, especially with the shows like Naruto or Bleach. Outputting a video in 1080p should show some quality improvement, especially in backgrounds as well as making the image look less jagged in general. Animation is not typically done in a resolution, that's left for the output method to determine.

I admit I am not a well of knowledge, either, but just because animation is done "on the cheap" using lots of low detail faces, color blending, and less "strokes" that doesn't mean it's lower resolution. However, in some cases, higher resolution may actually reveal how lazy the animation is being done, showing imperfections not visible at lower res output. It's like watching an old movie on Blu-Ray and being able to tell a stunt-double's face from the main actor even in a brief flash of a scene. Corners were cut due to the final product being so low-res that no one would notice.

Again, I don't know where a lot of these ideas are coming from, but there does seem to be a lack of understanding.

the one thing everyone should take for granted is this: CR said there's no upscales, and I doubt they want to lie to paying customers.
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Posted 2/13/12

Garylisk wrote:

I think there's a lack of understanding here. I am pretty sure the original animation is done in an animation program using a lot of vector art, especially with the shows like Naruto or Bleach. Outputting a video in 1080p should show some quality improvement, especially in backgrounds as well as making the image look less jagged in general. Animation is not typically done in a resolution, that's left for the output method to determine.

I admit I am not a well of knowledge, either, but just because animation is done "on the cheap" using lots of low detail faces, color blending, and less "strokes" that doesn't mean it's lower resolution. However, in some cases, higher resolution may actually reveal how lazy the animation is being done, showing imperfections not visible at lower res output. It's like watching an old movie on Blu-Ray and being able to tell a stunt-double's face from the main actor even in a brief flash of a scene. Corners were cut due to the final product being so low-res that no one would notice.

Again, I don't know where a lot of these ideas are coming from, but there does seem to be a lack of understanding.

the one thing everyone should take for granted is this: CR said there's no upscales, and I doubt they want to lie to paying customers.



I have seen a bunch of behind the scenes videos in Japanese animation studios including Gainax, Studio Pierrot (Naruto and Bleach), Toei (One Piece) and a few others which explain some of the processes they use. These videos were from a couple of years ago so things could have changed, but all of them were doing hand-drawn animation on paper which was then scanned into a computer. The only one using vector animation was Toei and only the main guys who do some of the keyframes for One Piece were using it. So the resolution it is produced in would be dependant on the size/detail of the hand-drawn images and the resolution the scanner is capable of doing. Of course they could just scan everything in at 1080p if the scanner is capable of that, but if the hand-drawn images are too small or low quality it wouldn't really look any better than if they scanned it in at a lower resolution, or it could look worse due to the points you listed.

Also Crunchyroll said that they offer 1080p video only when they are provided with an appropriate source video, so Crunchyroll doesn't do any upscaling. That doesn't mean that the Japanese companies don't do any.

But yes it could be that shows like Naruto might be done at 1080p properly now, but you can't really notice much difference between 720p and 1080p due to the fact that the images are just not detailed enough.
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26 / M / San Antonio
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Posted 2/13/12 , edited 2/13/12

Aemony wrote:

It isn't "true" 1080p (or it might be, at least it isn't on the latest Bleach episodes) but in fact 1080i due to the inability to send a full 1080 image through the satellite/cable interface of TVs. That's why the channels sends interlaced 1080 instead. This is easily seen on vertical movements on anime episodes on supposedly the 1080p setting. As I previously mentioned, the latest Bleach episode shows the horizontal stripes briefly during vertical movements that identifies the source as using interlaced scan.




That would be true if Crunchyroll used screencaps, but they dont. They get the source material directly from the anime studios. It doesn't matter what resolution the show was aired at on TV because CR doesn't use TV rips.
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Posted 2/13/12 , edited 2/13/12
oops, hit the wrong button.
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