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Why do antifans exist?
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Posted 2/16/12

funnyginsan wrote:



Crap you beat me to the whole discrimination thing LOL


A waste of my time apparently...


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Posted 2/16/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


funnyginsan wrote:



Crap you beat me to the whole discrimination thing LOL


A waste of my time apparently...




Nah just for that one person. I found it to be enlightening. Never knew that about Canadian law. Also, Americans can basically insult anyone they want as long as it is in a humorous way even if they are from other countries. If it wasn't that way family guy, SNL and other shows wouldn't even exist. You can thank the man who made Penthouse for that. ..... I think we got off topic.
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Posted 2/16/12 , edited 2/16/12

funnyginsan wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


funnyginsan wrote:



Crap you beat me to the whole discrimination thing LOL


A waste of my time apparently...




Nah just for that one person. I found it to be enlightening. Never knew that about Canadian law. Also, Americans can basically insult anyone they want as long as it is in a humorous way even if they are from other countries. If it wasn't that way family guy, SNL and other shows wouldn't even exist. You can thank the man who made Penthouse for that. ..... I think we got off topic.


Actually american law has a loophole that might silence people that Canadian law does not. In some American jurisdictions the concept of 'fightin' words' is legally accepted. That means there are noises someone's lips can make that would allow an American to strike that person.

In Canada. Nothing you say legally justifies violence against your person. However in both countries the phrase:

"Officer, I was in fear for my life."

is worth remembering. anytime you're facing scrutiny for having been violent.

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Posted 2/16/12 , edited 2/16/12
people are critics and hypocrites is natural.

its kinda like a good friend you betrayed you. you ganna hate them worse than someone you just met that betrayed you.

so basically another version of AHTL version.
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Posted 2/16/12

funnyginsan wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


funnyginsan wrote:



Crap you beat me to the whole discrimination thing LOL


A waste of my time apparently...




Nah just for that one person. I found it to be enlightening. Never knew that about Canadian law. Also, Americans can basically insult anyone they want as long as it is in a humorous way even if they are from other countries. If it wasn't that way family guy, SNL and other shows wouldn't even exist. You can thank the man who made Penthouse for that. ..... I think we got off topic.


I THINK the idea that you can joke at someonelse's expensive comes under 'malice aforethought' I could be wrong but saying 'It's joke, I didn't mean it' pretty much makes it hard to prove you deliberately made a false statement with the INTENT of harming their prestige or self-esteem.

Not sure what happened with penthouse. but they had some good articles back in the day.
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Posted 2/16/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Actually american law has a loophole that might silence people that Canadian law does not. In some American jurisdictions the concept of 'fightin' words' is legally accepted. That means there are noises someone's lips can make that would allow an American to strike that person.

In Canada. Nothing you say legally justifies violence against your person. However in both countries the phrase:

"Officer, I was in fear for my life."

is worth remembering. anytime you're facing scrutiny for having been violent.



Never knew that. Good to know if someone makes fun of my mama I can deck them. I think that would fly in Texas.

"officer - he was being a troll" Officer: "Ohh ok you're free to go"

To get back to the topic
"GO USA!!"
VS
"USA is the greatest country on Earth."

I think the 1st one is fine but the 2nd one creates Anti-fans. Or here in the states "terrorists"
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Posted 2/16/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

I THINK the idea that you can joke at someonelse's expensive comes under 'malice aforethought' I could be wrong but saying 'It's joke, I didn't mean it' pretty much makes it hard to prove you deliberately made a false statement with the INTENT of harming their prestige or self-esteem.

Not sure what happened with penthouse. but they had some good articles back in the day.


What happened with Penthouse is that Larry Flint made a cartoon depicting a senator in a "sexually compromising" situation. The senator sued for slander and lost. Now you can make fun of anyone you want as long as it is in humor.

As for the malice afterthought - I'm not quite sure. As long as you are not deliberately making false accusations in a serious tone, you can pretty much get away with anything.

Penthouse filed for bankruptcy in 2003. I have no idea what they are doing now.
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Posted 2/16/12

funnyginsan wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Actually american law has a loophole that might silence people that Canadian law does not. In some American jurisdictions the concept of 'fightin' words' is legally accepted. That means there are noises someone's lips can make that would allow an American to strike that person.

In Canada. Nothing you say legally justifies violence against your person. However in both countries the phrase:

"Officer, I was in fear for my life."

is worth remembering. anytime you're facing scrutiny for having been violent.



Never knew that. Good to know if someone makes fun of my mama I can deck them. I think that would fly in Texas.

"officer - he was being a troll" Officer: "Ohh ok you're free to go"

To get back to the topic
"GO USA!!"
VS
"USA is the greatest country on Earth."

I think the 1st one is fine but the 2nd one creates Anti-fans. Or here in the states "terrorists"


Well you might want to check with your legal system before you go off hitting people because some Canuck said your laws said it was cool. as for the topic relevant point

exactly. it's one thing to say some thing is good or great it's another to insist it is without peer. especially when doing so from a position of ignorance. Most of the people who say something like 'no where on the planet are people as free as they are in the United States' is to invite the scorn of everyone else who lives in a liberal democracy especially ones where they enjoy rights (such as Gay Marriage) that are not enjoyed in the United States.

What happens though too.... is after enough USA IS THE GREATEST is heard over and over. even GO USA sounds like the same thing to the ears of people who wish your Jingoists would shut up. (This is a fine example btw. because I suspect at least one of the people complaining about anti-fans on this thread is in fact an anti-fan of the USA)


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Posted 2/16/12

funnyginsan wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

I THINK the idea that you can joke at someonelse's expensive comes under 'malice aforethought' I could be wrong but saying 'It's joke, I didn't mean it' pretty much makes it hard to prove you deliberately made a false statement with the INTENT of harming their prestige or self-esteem.

Not sure what happened with penthouse. but they had some good articles back in the day.


What happened with Penthouse is that Larry Flint made a cartoon depicting a senator in a "sexually compromising" situation. The senator sued for slander and lost. Now you can make fun of anyone you want as long as it is in humor.

As for the malice afterthought - I'm not quite sure. As long as you are not deliberately making false accusations in a serious tone, you can pretty much get away with anything.

Penthouse filed for bankruptcy in 2003. I have no idea what they are doing now.


That's what malice aforethought means. (okay.. I thought Larry Flint was Hustler that's why I wondered)

basically in American libel law. If you libel or slander me I have to prove not only that what you wrote or said is false but that you MEANT to HURT me by saying it. Flint managed to set the precedent that 'it's just a joke' is sufficient prove a lack of 'malice aforethought' which when you think about it. is a bit disingenuous.

In Canadian and British law. Larry Flint would probably have had to prove that Senator had indeed adopted that position, maybe. There might be some leeway for cartoons and other fiction. but had someone written a news article about the senator's affairs yeah unless they could PROVE in a court of law that he WAS indeed having an affair. They'd be guilty of libel.

remember if you write it's LIBEL, if you SAY it's SLANDER.
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Well I know for me personally if someone starts ragging on the USA in a very troll-like way I will eventually just do a u-turn and troll back with "USA is the greatest!" I think this happens with Anime as well. It is one thing to point out Sakura's flaws as a character but to just go on and on and on about how much she sucks without using any sort of deduction sparks something inside of me that eventually makes me go "Sakura is great and you suck!" or if I be trollin "Sakura is the greatest female character ever!!" Hate breeds hate I guess.

Most of the people who say something like 'no where on the planet are people as free as they are in the United States' is to invite the scorn of everyone else who lives in a liberal democracy especially ones where they enjoy rights (such as Gay Marriage) that are not enjoyed in the United States.
Yeah I completely agree with you on this point. I will say though that while I support gay marriage, there are many people who don't and in a democracy that is how it works. You then get into the legal side of it where if a state doesn't allow gay marriage it is discriminating against gay people. Most people oppose gay marriage on religious grounds. If that is the case, why not call it civil-unions and give them all the rights a straight couple would have?

What happens though too.... is after enough USA IS THE GREATEST is heard over and over. even GO USA sounds like the same thing


From my experiences, the people who who say USA is the greatest usually have some of the harshest criticisms on the USA. I think it is just a way to show pride for your country for most people. Then you have people who actually mean it is the greatest and if you don't like it get out. There really is no conversing with those people. LOL Also, it depends on the situation. Saying USA is the greatest at lets say the Olympics vs saying it in an online community. When you say it at the Olympics I think you are just showing support for your country. When you say it in an online forum, you are basically asking to be trolled. I personally don't like country dick measuring. It isn't very constructive.
As to your second part of that sentence I agree. It seems like politicians have to say USA is the greatest in order to get elected nowadays which only fuels the fires of antipathy.

On the other side of the coin, it doesn't help when I hear "All Americans are fat war-mongers." It basically forces me into a group of other Americans who I normally wouldn't associate/agree with. The anti-fan of America just breeds more patriotism without discussion. In the anime community, when a person thinks Japan is the greatest country on earth even though they are American whilst seeing none of it's flaws created the term 'weeabo'. That is a whole nother discussion though.
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Posted 2/16/12
There are antifans for the same reason as there are fans.^^...cant have one without another~~
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Posted 2/16/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


That's what malice aforethought means. (okay.. I thought Larry Flint was Hustler that's why I wondered)

basically in American libel law. If you libel or slander me I have to prove not only that what you wrote or said is false but that you MEANT to HURT me by saying it. Flint managed to set the precedent that 'it's just a joke' is sufficient prove a lack of 'malice aforethought' which when you think about it. is a bit disingenuous.

In Canadian and British law. Larry Flint would probably have had to prove that Senator had indeed adopted that position, maybe. There might be some leeway for cartoons and other fiction. but had someone written a news article about the senator's affairs yeah unless they could PROVE in a court of law that he WAS indeed having an affair. They'd be guilty of libel.

remember if you write it's LIBEL, if you SAY it's SLANDER.


Yep you're right on the Hustler thing and you are also right on the slander vs libel thing. -double facepalm- lol

Interesting note on Canadian laws though. Could you really be sued for making fun of someone?
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funnyginsan wrote:



Well I know for me personally if someone starts ragging on the USA in a very troll-like way I will eventually just do a u-turn and troll back with "USA is the greatest!" I think this happens with Anime as well. It is one thing to point out Sakura's flaws as a character but to just go on and on and on about how much she sucks without using any sort of deduction sparks something inside of me that eventually makes me go "Sakura is great and you suck!" or if I be trollin "Sakura is the greatest female character ever!!" Hate breeds hate I guess.

Most of the people who say something like 'no where on the planet are people as free as they are in the United States' is to invite the scorn of everyone else who lives in a liberal democracy especially ones where they enjoy rights (such as Gay Marriage) that are not enjoyed in the United States.
Yeah I completely agree with you on this point. I will say though that while I support gay marriage, there are many people who don't and in a democracy that is how it works. You then get into the legal side of it where if a state doesn't allow gay marriage it is discriminating against gay people. Most people oppose gay marriage on religious grounds. If that is the case, why not call it civil-unions and give them all the rights a straight couple would have?

What happens though too.... is after enough USA IS THE GREATEST is heard over and over. even GO USA sounds like the same thing


From my experiences, the people who who say USA is the greatest usually have some of the harshest criticisms on the USA. I think it is just a way to show pride for your country for most people. Then you have people who actually mean it is the greatest and if you don't like it get out. There really is no conversing with those people. LOL Also, it depends on the situation. Saying USA is the greatest at lets say the Olympics vs saying it in an online community. When you say it at the Olympics I think you are just showing support for your country. When you say it in an online forum, you are basically asking to be trolled. I personally don't like country dick measuring. It isn't very constructive.
As to your second part of that sentence I agree. It seems like politicians have to say USA is the greatest in order to get elected nowadays which only fuels the fires of antipathy.

On the other side of the coin, it doesn't help when I hear "All Americans are fat war-mongers." It basically forces me into a group of other Americans who I normally wouldn't associate/agree with. The anti-fan of America just breeds more patriotism without discussion. In the anime community, when a person thinks Japan is the greatest country on earth even though they are American whilst seeing none of it's flaws created the term 'weeabo'. That is a whole nother discussion though.


Actually we've touched on a new point as to why anti-fans exist. The Concept is polarization. Basically the more ridgid and extreme one side's stance become, the harder the opposition becomes and the harder the original side fights to over come them. This is why your two parties can't agree on anything. And why in the election that gave our most right wing party a majority we put socialists in the opposition and basically gutted the centrist party that's been our government probably about 70% of our history.

on a different note:


I will say though that while I support gay marriage, there are many people who don't and in a democracy that is how it works. You then get into the legal side of it where if a state doesn't allow gay marriage it is discriminating against gay people. Most people oppose gay marriage on religious grounds. If that is the case, why not call it civil-unions and give them all the rights a straight couple would have?


Why not go all the way then and replace the legal concept of marriage, which is separate from the religious one anyway, and make all marriages civil unions? then everyone would be equal. I understand the real fear some religious types have. They don't want the agents of the state marching into their congregations and forcing their preacher, pastor whatever to marry someone against his conscience. But in support of that fear they would deny marriage to someone who visits a justice of the peace or a druid, priest, or minister who has no problem blessing a same sex union in the name of god. As far the state is concerned, the only thing that should matter is the legal contract between two people. No matter what you call it. As far as given congregation is concerned. most require that you be a member, take classes etc. They don't just blindly marry someone. So what has changed? oh .. I see... they object that someonelse who they see as 'living in sin' get's to call themselves married. Get's to be at the bedside of at the death of said loved one instead of shoved aside by 'relatives' who never cared about their black sheep until now etc.

I have a hard time respecting the fears of those who would trample on the rights of those who have nothing to do with them just to defend the IDEA of marriage in their own heads.

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Posted 2/16/12 , edited 2/16/12

funnyginsan wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


That's what malice aforethought means. (okay.. I thought Larry Flint was Hustler that's why I wondered)

basically in American libel law. If you libel or slander me I have to prove not only that what you wrote or said is false but that you MEANT to HURT me by saying it. Flint managed to set the precedent that 'it's just a joke' is sufficient prove a lack of 'malice aforethought' which when you think about it. is a bit disingenuous.

In Canadian and British law. Larry Flint would probably have had to prove that Senator had indeed adopted that position, maybe. There might be some leeway for cartoons and other fiction. but had someone written a news article about the senator's affairs yeah unless they could PROVE in a court of law that he WAS indeed having an affair. They'd be guilty of libel.

remember if you write it's LIBEL, if you SAY it's SLANDER.


Yep you're right on the Hustler thing and you are also right on the slander vs libel thing. -double facepalm- lol

Interesting note on Canadian laws though. Could you really be sued for making fun of someone?


I don't know about that. but if you say something untrue that harms their prestige then yes...

For example. If you want to say a certain politician is in the pay of the Mob you'd better have a copy of his ledger in your files.

or another example.

What if I asserted that someone was infected with HIV... when they weren't? I could be sued for that... and probably pay some hefty damages especially if the victim could prove I broke up a marriage or cost him a job or something with such an assertion.

Of course there is a loophole.

The press can say something like "other people (organisations, watchdogs etc) ALLEGE that so and so is...." and all they are doing is reporting the truth of what someone else said.

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antifans exist because not everyone agrees with everyone, its obvious
and defining a character as good or bad can be very subjective
idk
if im an antifan it's because there are way too many fans for someone that doesnt deserve it, according to me, and its like a way to cancel-out all those crazy fans.
*coughs* beliebers...
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