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Is circumcision child abuse?
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32 / M / Toronto, Canada
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Posted 3/19/12
in many states it is illegal to tattoo children under 18
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24 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 3/20/12 , edited 3/20/12

Mangasurf wrote:


amersfoort wrote:


Mangasurf wrote:


amersfoort wrote:

The rights to not have their bodies permanently damaged by others without consent.
Now the reason I am trying to bring up this debate is because if we allow circumcision then we open the door for many more practices.
We grant parents the right to cut off any part of their offsprings body, wich we see with female circumcision.
Now if you want at your age to be circumsized, then by all means do so, but do not impose it on a defenseless child. Do not harm the body of a child in any way.


Give me one way it permanently damages the child in any way. What other practices can you think of?

You say we open the doors for many more practices because of circumcision? But then, why haven't they been opened already? In case you forgot, circumcision has been occurring for over 2 millenniums, so if any "doors" existed, they would already have been opened, and we would be mutilated freaks of nature (sarcasm).


Well do you really need me to answer your first question? Circumcision cuts of a part (even though it's small it's still a part) of the body, and thereby permanently damaging it.
A different practice would be the female circumcision, in this practice the parents cut of the clitoris of their baby.
This is also an example of opening the door to other pracitces.
Your argument that the tradition of circumcision is an old one and therefore okay is a terrible one.
Slavery is perhaps an older tradition, but it is most certainly not okay anymore.


comparing slavery to circumcision is an excellent argument as well (sarcasm again, if you didn't realize)~!

Damaging: physical harm caused to something in such a way as to impair its value, usefulness, or normal function.

Circumcision. Does is impair value, usefulness, or the normal function of a penis?

I'll let you answer that.

I don't mean to come off as a dick, but I'm just trying to convey my point here.


My apologies for answering this late, but I had a lot of studying to do.

Now my comparison to slavery is an argument that tries to show that flipping our morals upside down, it went from thinking that slavery is okay, to thinking slavery is not okay, can't flip it around much more than that.
A same thing should be done for circumcision, but only the other way around from being okay to not okay.

Now ShintoMale has shown that circumcision does lower the pleasure/usefulness and perhaps the value of a penis, it might not be for you, but the statistics show that on average there is an increase of dissatisfaction with a circumcized member.

Now even if it isn't painfull, does that make it okay? If my eye was taken out (I know exaggeration) but without pain, I would still be pretty angry about it.
It's a life alternating action and is done without consent of the victim, that is wrong and deprives someone of their freedom.

Now honestly, it's too little too late to try and not come off as a dick anymore (in my personal opinion that is), You've called me ''pussy'' ''mental'' and ''you people''.
If you truly wanted to convey your point, then you shouldn't had used to terms in the first place.
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24 / M / New Hampshire
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Posted 3/20/12
Regardless if it hurt me as a baby or not, I'd say, "Wtf parents, what were you thinking not having me circumsized?"
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24 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 3/20/12

DreadLy430 wrote:

Regardless if it hurt me as a baby or not, I'd say, "Wtf parents, what were you thinking not having me circumsized?"


That's great and all for you, but I'm getting tired of the ''I'm glad my parents did it as a baby to me''

Fact remains, you had no choice in the matter, and this matter will influence you for the rest of your (sex)life, it can be positive or negative.
Now if you were one of the people in the stats that ShintoMale showed, that has problems getting an orgasm, wich could be thanks to being circumsized, would you still be happy this was forced upon you?

If you want to be circumsized fine, do it at an age where the person in question has a choice in the matter, like a tattoo or piercing.
But don't force it upon a baby and then make it believe it was a good thing, because statistics are clearly showing it is not a good thing, and any positive effects it has can also be accomplished with regular hygene and condoms.
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24 / M / New Hampshire
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Posted 3/20/12
Well honestly, I wish I hadn't had anything forced upon me with out my consent. Not that I could as a child anyways, but I can see how it would be preffered to wait until you are old enough to make a decision. However, I am going to say that my parents brought me into this world. What they do healthwise to me as a child is up to them.
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28 / M / Irish/German - Am...
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Posted 3/20/12 , edited 3/20/12
nope. Cultural differences should be respected and this is done when you are a baby so it is not genital mutilation (unlike how female circumcision usually waits for them to be a teen to do it). I honestly don't want to have a long lengthy discussion on this but if you really want to know I did a quick google search and here you go
http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/

I prefer my penis being circumcised and wouldn't want to have an uncircumcised one because of the way it looks. My orgasms are doing just fine btw and I plan to have my kids snipped as well. Edit- actually IDK if I would have my kids snipped. I would have to talk to my wife about it and discuss it at length. I will say comparing female circumcision (Removing the clitoris and much of the outer lips) to male circumcision is unjustified. It's not like they cut off the head of a penis (which many people compare a clitoris to be), they just remove some skin. I will also say the idea that circumcision dramatically reduces sex drive is unfounded in my personal opinion. This comes from my own personal experience in knowing both snipped and un-snipped men. Some circumcised men have WAY more sex drive than those of un-circumcised men. I don't have any relevant scientific data but these have been my personal observations.
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24 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 3/20/12

DreadLy430 wrote:

Well honestly, I wish I hadn't had anything forced upon me with out my consent. Not that I could as a child anyways, but I can see how it would be preffered to wait until you are old enough to make a decision. However, I am going to say that my parents brought me into this world. What they do healthwise to me as a child is up to them.


Well, that is an incredibly dangerous statement, some parents don't want their children to be vaccinated, because they think it's unhealthy (saying it causes autism or something), their children will be vulnerable to dangerous and potentially deadly diseases, only because their parents are, well let's just say it, stupid.

Parents will probably always want the best for the child, but they do not always know best.
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18 / M / Stoke, England
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Posted 3/20/12
My dad wasn't circumcised for religious purposes, but for medical reasons. And not while he was a newborn, but still.
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24 / M / New Hampshire
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Posted 3/20/12

amersfoort wrote:


DreadLy430 wrote:

Well honestly, I wish I hadn't had anything forced upon me with out my consent. Not that I could as a child anyways, but I can see how it would be preffered to wait until you are old enough to make a decision. However, I am going to say that my parents brought me into this world. What they do healthwise to me as a child is up to them.


Well, that is an incredibly dangerous statement, some parents don't want their children to be vaccinated, because they think it's unhealthy (saying it causes autism or something), their children will be vulnerable to dangerous and potentially deadly diseases, only because their parents are, well let's just say it, stupid.

Parents will probably always want the best for the child, but they do not always know best.


I'm confused on which side you are trying to take here. I feel like, if its for religious reasons then by all means go for it. If it's not then well, it's one of the many decisions that parents have to make.
Posted 3/20/12 , edited 3/20/12
No way. I'd resist even as a baby.

But on topic: why should I care about someone else's kid?
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24 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 3/20/12

funnyginsan wrote:

nope. Cultural differences should be respected and this is done when you are a baby so it is not genital mutilation (unlike how female circumcision usually waits for them to be a teen to do it). I honestly don't want to have a long lengthy discussion on this but if you really want to know I did a quick google search and here you go
http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/

I prefer my penis being circumcised and wouldn't want to have an uncircumcised one because of the way it looks. My orgasms are doing just fine btw and I plan to have my kids snipped as well.


And here we see the danger the genital mutilation community really poses, the parent doesn't care for some negative improbable consequenses because of positive experiences.
And this all under the term of ''respect for cultural differences''.
Not only do they create a larger risk of long term damage for health and pleasure, but they do so without any single consent.
If you really care about your kids you inform them, and wait till they are old enough to make their own decisions.
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24 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 3/20/12

DreadLy430 wrote:


amersfoort wrote:


DreadLy430 wrote:

Well honestly, I wish I hadn't had anything forced upon me with out my consent. Not that I could as a child anyways, but I can see how it would be preffered to wait until you are old enough to make a decision. However, I am going to say that my parents brought me into this world. What they do healthwise to me as a child is up to them.


Well, that is an incredibly dangerous statement, some parents don't want their children to be vaccinated, because they think it's unhealthy (saying it causes autism or something), their children will be vulnerable to dangerous and potentially deadly diseases, only because their parents are, well let's just say it, stupid.

Parents will probably always want the best for the child, but they do not always know best.


I'm confused on which side you are trying to take here. I feel like, if its for religious reasons then by all means go for it. If it's not then well, it's one of the many decisions that parents have to make.


My apologies for the confusement D:

The point i was trying to make is that parents do not always know what is best for the child, and therefore shouldn't be given complete authority over the body of the child, thereby granting them to do as they please with it.

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28 / M / Irish/German - Am...
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Posted 3/20/12

amersfoort wrote:


And here we see the danger the genital mutilation community really poses, the parent doesn't care for some negative improbable consequenses

So ... you agree that the idea that circumcision causes many negative consequences is improbable? Good to know.



amersfoort wrote:
And this all under the term of ''respect for cultural differences''.
Not only do they create a larger risk of long term damage for health and pleasure, but they do so without any single consent.
If you really care about your kids you inform them, and wait till they are old enough to make their own decisions.


Not seeing any health risks for circumcision unless it is done with glass or unsterilized equipment. Also, the idea of circumcision at birth seems kinder to me since they won't remember any of it unlike having it done as a teenager or as an adult. The idea that I somehow hold a grudge against my parents for being circumcised is ridiculous. I also got baptized as a baby and I don't hold a grudge over that. I for one wouldn't shove my personal beliefs down another persons throat. If you want to circumcise your baby, go ahead, I have no right to tell you otherwise. If you want to keep them all-natural, sounds good to me. I see no huge life threatening risk in circumcision and I don't view it as abuse. Ohh yeah I also edited my statement above in case you want to take a look. Since you are not my future-wife I think I am done with this thread. Have fun imposing your morals on others. I hear that usually tuns out great.
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24 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 3/20/12

funnyginsan wrote:


amersfoort wrote:


And here we see the danger the genital mutilation community really poses, the parent doesn't care for some negative improbable consequenses

So ... you agree that the idea that circumcision causes many negative consequences is improbable? Good to know.



amersfoort wrote:
And this all under the term of ''respect for cultural differences''.
Not only do they create a larger risk of long term damage for health and pleasure, but they do so without any single consent.
If you really care about your kids you inform them, and wait till they are old enough to make their own decisions.


Not seeing any health risks for circumcision unless it is done with glass or unsterilized equipment. Also, the idea of circumcision at birth seems kinder to me since they won't remember any of it unlike having it done as a teenager or as an adult. The idea that I somehow hold a grudge against my parents for being circumcised is ridiculous. I also got baptized as a baby and I don't hold a grudge over that. I for one wouldn't shove my personal beliefs down another persons throat. If you want to circumcise your baby, go ahead, I have no right to tell you otherwise. If you want to keep them all-natural, sounds good to me. I see no huge life threatening risk in circumcision and I don't view it as abuse. Ohh yeah I also edited my statement above in case you want to take a look. Since you are not my future-wife I think I am done with this thread. Have fun imposing your morals on others. I hear that usually tuns out great.


Not seeing any health risks is probably because you haven't read the topic, you haven't seen the statistics that clearly show that circumsizion creates a much larger chance of a less forfilling sex life, now I agree that the chance is still quite low, but nevertheless you enlargen it.
It is funny how you accuse me of imposing anything, while you clearly state that you will snip your children, without any consent, talk about imposing.

I do not see how it seems kinder to you, it's a well known fact that babies cry after they are circumcized, so they do feel the pain.
Being glad that you do not remember feeling it is like being glad you don't remember how it feels to bumb your tiny toe into a table.

Now I understand that you find having respect for other peoples conviction is important and I can assure you I do as well, however, the moment a child gets involved in those convictions there should be no discussion about imposing or anything of the kind.
When the childs body is at stake I will not mind and breaking those unwritten laws of imposing.

Now again on the imposing issue, this thread is questioning if it is abuse, since no one else is taking the stance that it is abuse, I will, for the sake of the debate take that position.
I've yet to hear a good argument that circumcision is usefull and therefore not abuse, if it isn't usefull, as I am suspecting, then how is mutilating the penis of a newborn not abuse? Because theres culture involved? Because it's the parents choice? As far as I know hitting your children is your choice as well, but at the same time it is abuse.

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32 / M / Toronto, Canada
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Posted 3/23/12
Is Your Circumcision Making You Soft?


Could your circumcision be affecting your erection? It just might, according to a new study published in the International Journal of Men’s Health.

Researchers surveyed 300 men and found that circumcised fellas had a 4.5 times greater chance of suffering from ED than noncircumcised guys.

One reason: Circumcised penises can experience up to a 75 percent reduction in sensitivity compared to non-snipped members, according to a study published in the British Journal of Urology International.

A major factor that contributes to that loss of sensitivity is the severing of the perineal nerve—a nerve located on the underside of the penis that is responsible for the majority of sexual sensory input—explains Dan Bollinger, study author and director of the International Coalition for Genital Integrity.

Keep the findings in perspective, though. This was only a survey, so some of the men could be fibbing. And there are numerous other factors that contribute to ED.

“Aging, diabetes, obesity, cigarette smoking, and poor diet—these are all going to affect you and your chances of ED more than being circumcised will,” says Judd Moul, M.D., professor and Chief of the Division of Urologic Surgery at Duke University Medical Center.

Think you might have ED? Then you’re probably right. In fact, nine out of 10 men in a recent study who said they were “unsure” about their ED status actually had some level of ED. And according to a study published in BMC Urology, 70 percent of ED cases go undiagnosed.

Bring up your concerns at your next doctor’s visit, Dr. Moul recommends. “ED is so much more common than men realize, and it can be very easily fixed by making a few lifestyle changes or getting on a medication.”







http://news.menshealth.com/is-your-circumcision-making-you-soft/2011/11/02/

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