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Is circumcision child abuse?
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too much negativity.
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infant circumcised and than bled to death due to having haemophilia a genetic disease where the blood don't clot and sufferers can bled to death if not treated.



Mother of AIDS martyr Ryan White speaks at Pruis Hall

Jeanne White-Ginder, mother of Ryan White who died in 1990 from AIDS, spoke Thursday night for an event hosted by Project Posi(+)ive Empowerment, an immersive learning class at Ball State.

White-Ginder made her way to the microphone speaking in a voice almost too soft to hear in Pruis Hall.

“I’m just a mom, not a professional speaker,” the Kokomo, Ind., native said. “All I ever wanted to be was a mom and when I got pregnant I just couldn’t wait.”

“White was born 22 and a half inches long, so skinny, but had the biggest feet so we hoped that he would be a basketball player,” she laughed. “That was short lived because he was circumcised and the bleeding wouldn’t stop.”

Shortly after White was circumcised the doctors knew something was wrong. The bleeding did not stop even after stitches were applied. He was immediately tested and hours later the doctors informed White’s mother that he suffered from severe hemophilia.

This was just one of the many milestones White would have to overcome in his short life. After being diagnosed with hemophilia, White was given drugs created from plasma of non-hemophiliacs that had not yet been approved by the FDA.


“Little did we even realize the drug that was supposed to be saving his life was actually going to be the drug that took his life,” White-Ginder said.

http://www.bsudailynews.com/mother-of-aids-martyr-ryan-white-speaks-at-pruis-hall-1.2736885#.T5sNalKUJ8E



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this is why they constantly promoting circumcisions there are commercial interests. greedy doctors and big business make millions from circumcisions. the docs then sold them to big business including the cosmetic industry that use them to make skin creams and bio-tech industries which use them for other purposes


lets follow the money



A Cut above the Rest?: Wrinkle Treatment Uses Babies' Foreskins

Male circumcision-derived skin-rejuvenator injections in U.K. have yet to be approved in U.S.


With each passing year, the crow's-feet framing your eyes and the creases lining your forehead grow deeper. And those pits and craters, constant reminders of junior high acne, just won't disappear. Cosmetic and dermatological companies have many potential fixes for your dermal woes—fillers to minimize the appearance of wrinkles, laser treatments to smooth imperfections, even injections of bacterial proteins (Botox) that paralyze your face muscles to prevent skin stretching.* And at least one company is searching for the fountain of youth in baby foreskins—yes, we're talking about that flap of skin sliced away during male circumcision.

About 150 patients in the U.K. have already received injections of Vavelta, a foreskin-derived skin treatment aimed at rejuvenating and smoothing skin withered with age or damaged by scarring from acne, burns and surgical incisions, according to a spokesperson for Intercytex, PLC, the Cambridge, England-based company that makes the product. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not approved Vavelta, nor have any other federal agencies outside the U.K., where it was introduced in June 2007.

Each vial of Vavelta (enough for treating about four square centimeters of skin, roughly the size of a U.S. postal stamp) consists of about 20 million live fibroblasts—cells that produce a skin-firming protein called collagen, which becomes increasingly scarce with age. Fibroblasts also make elastin, a protein that allows the skin to snap back to its original shape after being pulled or stretched like a rubber band, as well as hyaluronic acid, which locks moisture in the skin, keeping it supple and plump.

The fibroblasts in Vavelta are isolated from the foreskins taken from baby boys, given several months to grow and multiply in the lab, and then packaged into treatment vials that are shipped to a select group of U.K. physicians. Each vial costs approximately 750 pounds, or $1,000], according to the company spokesperson.

Once delivered into the skin, the fibroblasts begin producing collagen, hyaluronic acid and elastin (which build and reinforce it) orthey make enzymes called metalloproteinases to break down excessive amounts of proteins that accumulate in scar tissue, according to Paul Kemp, Intercytex's chief scientific officer.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-cut-above-the-rest-wrin



Human Foreskins are Big Business for Cosmetics

http://voices.yahoo.com/human-foreskins-big-business-cosmetics-201840.html


Foreskins For Sale


"Parents should be wary of anyone who tries to retract their child's foreskin, and especially wary of anyone who wants to cut it off. Human foreskins are in great demand for any number of commercial enterprises, and the marketing of purloined baby foreskins is a multimillion-dollar-a-year industry."

Where Is My Foreskin? The Case Against Circumcision
Paul M. Fleiss, MD
Mothering (The Magazine Of Natural Family Living)
Winter 1997, page 39


Since the 1980s, private hospitals have been involved in the business of supplying discarded foreskins to private bio-research laboratories and pharmaceutical companies who require human flesh as raw research material. They also supply foreskins to transnational corporations such as Advanced Tissue Sciences of San Diego, California, [1] Organogenesis, [2] and BioSurface Technology, [3] who have recently emerged to reap new corporate profits from the sale of marketable products made from harvested human foreskins. In 1996 alone, Advanced Tissue Sciences could boast of a healthy $663.9 million market capitalization performance.[4]

A short history of the institutionalization of involuntary sexual mutilation in the United States. Hodges F. in: Denniston GC, Milos MF (eds). Sexual Mutilations: A Human Tragedy. New York: Plenum Press. 1997:17-40.


One educated nurse from San Antonio told me they have to save infants' amputated foreskins because the hospital's Department of Oral Surgery uses them for reconstructive surgery of the inner lining of the mouth!

Report on the 1995 American Academy of Pediatrics San Francisco Convention. DeSeabra R. Intact Network Newsletter 11/1/95.

Other Published Materials Documenting the
Commercial Use of Harvested Human Foreskins

Cultured skin: applications are growing. Blacker L. Harvard Magazine (1988):4, 6, passim.

Foreskins Used in Skin Ulcer Treatments. Editor. American Medical News (October 27, 1989):38.

Treatment of skin ulcers with cultured epidermal allografts. Phillips TJ, Kehinde O, Green H, Gilchrest BA. Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology 1989;21:191-9.

So that's what they do with it. Editor. New Physician (May-June, 1989):51.

Babies' foreskins are used to grow tissue for burn victims. McKee R. The Gazette (Montreal) (April 5, 1995):A1-A2.

Artificial graft derived from foreskins offers diabetics hope. Mihill C. Guardian (September 5, 1997).

New tissue uses reopen circumcision debate. Foreman J. Boston Globe (January 26, 1998):C01.

BDA panel urges artificial skin. Neergaard L. Los Angeles Times (January 30, 1998). [http://www.lataimes.com/sbin/my_ia...t=/var/tmp/34d1a/aaa006brd1a83d&]

Smith & Nephew pioneers "engineered skin" treatment. Yates A. Independent (February 27, 1998):23-4.


http://www.foreskin.org/f4sale.htm



http://www.norm-uk.org/where_do_foreskins_go.html

i am getting sick more can be found using Google search and the above links












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Posted 4/29/12

shinto-male wrote:

this is why they constantly promoting circumcisions there are commercial interests. greedy doctors and big business make millions from circumcisions. the docs then sold them to big business including the cosmetic industry that use them to make skin creams and bio-tech industries which use them for other purposes


lets follow the money



A Cut above the Rest?: Wrinkle Treatment Uses Babies' Foreskins

Male circumcision-derived skin-rejuvenator injections in U.K. have yet to be approved in U.S.


With each passing year, the crow's-feet framing your eyes and the creases lining your forehead grow deeper. And those pits and craters, constant reminders of junior high acne, just won't disappear. Cosmetic and dermatological companies have many potential fixes for your dermal woes—fillers to minimize the appearance of wrinkles, laser treatments to smooth imperfections, even injections of bacterial proteins (Botox) that paralyze your face muscles to prevent skin stretching.* And at least one company is searching for the fountain of youth in baby foreskins—yes, we're talking about that flap of skin sliced away during male circumcision.

About 150 patients in the U.K. have already received injections of Vavelta, a foreskin-derived skin treatment aimed at rejuvenating and smoothing skin withered with age or damaged by scarring from acne, burns and surgical incisions, according to a spokesperson for Intercytex, PLC, the Cambridge, England-based company that makes the product. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not approved Vavelta, nor have any other federal agencies outside the U.K., where it was introduced in June 2007.

Each vial of Vavelta (enough for treating about four square centimeters of skin, roughly the size of a U.S. postal stamp) consists of about 20 million live fibroblasts—cells that produce a skin-firming protein called collagen, which becomes increasingly scarce with age. Fibroblasts also make elastin, a protein that allows the skin to snap back to its original shape after being pulled or stretched like a rubber band, as well as hyaluronic acid, which locks moisture in the skin, keeping it supple and plump.

The fibroblasts in Vavelta are isolated from the foreskins taken from baby boys, given several months to grow and multiply in the lab, and then packaged into treatment vials that are shipped to a select group of U.K. physicians. Each vial costs approximately 750 pounds, or $1,000], according to the company spokesperson.

Once delivered into the skin, the fibroblasts begin producing collagen, hyaluronic acid and elastin (which build and reinforce it) orthey make enzymes called metalloproteinases to break down excessive amounts of proteins that accumulate in scar tissue, according to Paul Kemp, Intercytex's chief scientific officer.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-cut-above-the-rest-wrin



Human Foreskins are Big Business for Cosmetics

http://voices.yahoo.com/human-foreskins-big-business-cosmetics-201840.html


Foreskins For Sale


"Parents should be wary of anyone who tries to retract their child's foreskin, and especially wary of anyone who wants to cut it off. Human foreskins are in great demand for any number of commercial enterprises, and the marketing of purloined baby foreskins is a multimillion-dollar-a-year industry."

Where Is My Foreskin? The Case Against Circumcision
Paul M. Fleiss, MD
Mothering (The Magazine Of Natural Family Living)
Winter 1997, page 39


Since the 1980s, private hospitals have been involved in the business of supplying discarded foreskins to private bio-research laboratories and pharmaceutical companies who require human flesh as raw research material. They also supply foreskins to transnational corporations such as Advanced Tissue Sciences of San Diego, California, [1] Organogenesis, [2] and BioSurface Technology, [3] who have recently emerged to reap new corporate profits from the sale of marketable products made from harvested human foreskins. In 1996 alone, Advanced Tissue Sciences could boast of a healthy $663.9 million market capitalization performance.[4]

A short history of the institutionalization of involuntary sexual mutilation in the United States. Hodges F. in: Denniston GC, Milos MF (eds). Sexual Mutilations: A Human Tragedy. New York: Plenum Press. 1997:17-40.


One educated nurse from San Antonio told me they have to save infants' amputated foreskins because the hospital's Department of Oral Surgery uses them for reconstructive surgery of the inner lining of the mouth!

Report on the 1995 American Academy of Pediatrics San Francisco Convention. DeSeabra R. Intact Network Newsletter 11/1/95.

Other Published Materials Documenting the
Commercial Use of Harvested Human Foreskins

Cultured skin: applications are growing. Blacker L. Harvard Magazine (1988):4, 6, passim.

Foreskins Used in Skin Ulcer Treatments. Editor. American Medical News (October 27, 1989):38.

Treatment of skin ulcers with cultured epidermal allografts. Phillips TJ, Kehinde O, Green H, Gilchrest BA. Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology 1989;21:191-9.

So that's what they do with it. Editor. New Physician (May-June, 1989):51.

Babies' foreskins are used to grow tissue for burn victims. McKee R. The Gazette (Montreal) (April 5, 1995):A1-A2.

Artificial graft derived from foreskins offers diabetics hope. Mihill C. Guardian (September 5, 1997).

New tissue uses reopen circumcision debate. Foreman J. Boston Globe (January 26, 1998):C01.

BDA panel urges artificial skin. Neergaard L. Los Angeles Times (January 30, 1998). [http://www.lataimes.com/sbin/my_ia...t=/var/tmp/34d1a/aaa006brd1a83d&]

Smith & Nephew pioneers "engineered skin" treatment. Yates A. Independent (February 27, 1998):23-4.


http://www.foreskin.org/f4sale.htm



http://www.norm-uk.org/where_do_foreskins_go.html

i am getting sick more can be found using Google search and the above links



And we are getting sick of sensationalist bullshit that shows nothing too.
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Extracted from the exciting Anti-Circumcision comic 'Foreskin Man'.


As you can see, our blond haired, blue eyed, super hero, Foreskin man, fight against the evil, blood thirsty pro-circumcisionists like Monster Mohel, who, we are left to assume, also wear pouches of Jewgold around their neck while sacrificing Christian Babies to make Passover bread.
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Does circumcision cause disease?

Prevalence of urinary symptoms in urban Australian men aged 40-69

J Epidemiol Biostat 2001;6(2):211-8 (ISSN: 1359-5229)
McCredie M; Staples M; Johnson W; English DR; Giles GG
Department of Preventive and Social Medicine, Dunedin Medical School, University of Otago, New Zealand.

BACKGROUND: This study was devised to determine the prevalence of urinary symptoms among men living in the Australian cities of Melbourne, Sydney or Perth, and to identify factors associated with the presence of moderate-to-severe urinary symptoms.

METHODS: The study comprised a population-based sample of 1,216 men, aged 40-69 years, whose names were obtained through electoral rolls and who participated as controls in a case-control study of risk factors for prostate cancer. As part of a structured face-to-face interview, the men completed the International Prostate Symptom Score (IPSS). Men with moderate (IPSS = 8-19) or severe (IPSS > or = 20) urinary symptoms were compared with those with mild or no symptoms (IPSS < 8) using unconditional logistic regression.

RESULTS: The age-specific prevalence of moderate-to-severe urinary symptoms (IPSS > or = 8) in men aged 40-49, 50-59, 60-69 years was 16%, 23% and 28%, respectively. Compared with men with no or mild urinary symptoms (IPSS < 8), men with moderate-to-severe symptoms were more likely to report not currently living as married [odds ratio (OR) = 1.5; 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.1-2.0] and being circumcised (OR = 1.5; 95% Cl 1.2-2.0). The increased likelihood associated with drinking an average of > 60g per day of alcohol in the 2 years before interview was of marginal statistical significance (OR = 1.6; 1.0-2.6). There were no significant differences between men with IPSS > or = 8 and those with IPSS < 8 with respect to body mass index, education level, having had a vasectomy, or cigarette smoking.

CONCLUSION: Among Australian men, being circumcised, or not currently living as married, were associated with increased prevalence of urinary symptoms.



a study from circumcising Israel


Is ritual circumcision a risk factor for neonatal urinary tract infections?

Dario Prais (prais@post.tau.ac.il)

Schneider Children's Medical Center of Israel, Israel

Rachel Shoov-Furman

Schneider Children's Medical Center of Israel, Israel

Jacob Amir (amirj@clalit.org.il)

+ Author Affiliations

Schneider Children's Medical Center of Israel, Israel

Published Online First 6 October 2008

Abstract

Objective: Although circumcision is commonly believed to protect against urinary tract infection (UTI), it is not unusual in neonates in Israel, where almost all male infants are circumcised. The aim of the study was to evaluate the burden of neonatal UTI in Israel and its relationship to circumcision.

Design: Medical records of neonates (≤T2 months old) hospitalized with UTI were reviewed and demographic and clinical data were collected. The second part of the study consisting of a telephone survey to assess timing and details concerning the circumcision, included two groups: the study group consisting of parents of male infants, aged 8-30 days, hospitalized with UTI and a control group consisting of healthy neonates.

Results: 162 neonates (108 males, 54 females) were hospitalized with UTI. Mean age at admission was significantly lower in males (27.5 vs 37.7 days, p=0.0002). The incidence of UTI in males peaked at 2-4 weeks of age, i.e. the period immediately following circumcision. In females, the incidence tended to rise with age. Accordingly, male predominance disappeared at 7 weeks and the male-to-female ratio reversed. In the second part of the study, 111 males (≤T1 month old) were included: 48 post-UTI and 63 as a control group. While evaluating the impact of circumcision technique, we found that UTI occurred in 6 of the 24 infants circumcised by a physician (25%), and in 42 of the 87 infants (48%) circumcised by a religious authority; the calculated odds ratio for contracting UTI was 2.8 (95% CI: 1-9.4).

Conclusions: There was a higher preponderance of UTI among male neonates. Its incidence peaked during the early post-circumcision period, as opposed to the age-related rise in females. UTI seems to occur more frequently after traditional circumcision than after physician performed circumcision. We speculate that changes in the hemostasis technique or shortening the duration of the shaft wrapping might decrease the rate of infection after Jewish ritual circumcision.


http://adc.bmj.com/content/early/2008/10/06/adc.2008.144063.abstract?rss=1

Circumcision Doesn't Effectively Prevent Urinary Tract Infection
This So-called Benefit is a Crock

A US Army pediatrician, Wiswell, read a study done about UTI in a hospital where only 5% of the boys were circumcised. He began examining charts of the male births in military hospitals. He came to the conclusion that circumcision resulted in a 10-100x decrease in UTI, which is a gross exaggeration. Using his information, 50-100 circumcisions would need to be performed to prevent a single UTI. More recent information from a better study suggests that number would have to be closer to 195. Urinary tract infections are extremely rare. The AAP states an intact male's risk is only 1% at most. Is it worth a 2-10% rate of complication from circumcision to try to decrease a 1% likelihood of contracting UTI?

In 1972 a study found that UTI was associated with maternal infection, perinatal anoxia, and birth weight. It is far more likely that intact boys were more likely to have UTIs because of those factors and others, such as having their foreskins prematurely retracted. In the 1990s we learned that breastfeeding greatly reduced the chances of an infant having a UTI. We have also learned that rooming-in with mother lowers the UTI rate as well. Unfortunately, Wiswell focused focused on circumcision instead. His methods and information were faulty, yet the myths he created are still being perpetuated.

In 1989 the AAP stated that his studies were flawed and tainted by bias. All of the babies observed were hospitalized due to illness. It is likely that many of the intact babies studied were premature, hence the reason for their hospitalization. Preemies were often on catheters back then, which increase the risk of UTI. In the past circumcision wasn't always accurately documented on patient charts, so some children marked as intact may indeed have been circumcised. Furthermore, the studies considered a positive urine culture alone as indication of a UTI, and those tests carry a high false positive rate. They concluded that the information did not clearly represent the general population of male babies.

Studies so far have been unable to prove a significant decrease in the rate of UTI. There is not enough evidence for pediatric organizations to recommend routine infant circumcision. There are studies from Israel and Canada that suggest circumcision may actually cause an increase in the rate of UTI. One study found no cases of UTI in 603 uncircumcised males of many ages. There is no reason to recommend circumcision to prevent potential or recurrent UTI, as there is no indicator that having a foreskin creates a greater incidence of urinary tract infection. Circumcision wouldn't do anything for those with abnormal urinary tracts anyway. The AAP agrees that the studies are not well-conducted enough for them to recommend circumcising.

The National Kidney and Urologic Diseases Clearinghouse lists the causes of urinary tract infections. They do not list circumcision as a prevention or cure. The American Academy of Pediatrics states that the studies on UTI are so flawed that the data is inconclusive. The AAP also does not consider circumcision to be useful in reducing the rate of UTI. It is becoming more widely known now that circumcision only decreases the risk of UTI by 1%. Breastfeeding and other techniques are much more effective preventions of Urinary Tract Infection, and this is becoming more widely acknowledged as well. The Canadian Pediatric Society recommends it as a more effective and less expensive means of preventing UTI.

In 1998, an AAP publication stated that intact males may be at a higher risk of UTI for only the first 3 months of life--not the entire first year, or their entire lives. With circumcision rate still being high, many of the males left intact are premature or afflicted by illness, which alone increases their risk of urinary tract infections. Most of the UTIs in the first 3 months were in boys, and in that study, 95% of the boys were intact. This led to the conclusion that intact boys were more likely to developed UTIs. For accurate data we would need to compare the incidence of UTI in these uncircumcised boys to an equal number of circumcised boys. We would also need to know the gestational age and health conditions of the children involved.

Urinary tract infections are painful, but they can usually be treated quite quickly with antibiotics. This is much less expensive, time-consuming, and painful than circumcising. The treatment comes with no life-long results, unlike circumcising. UTI is extremely rare and is more common in girls than boys, yet we do not circumcise girls for this. Usually UTI is cured within 1-2 days after treatment is started. There are also many drugs that can help alleviate the pain. Severe complications are extremely rare, especially if prompt treatment is given. Most sources of medical information, such as MayoClinic, do not list circumcision as prevention or cure.

My sources include three well-known anti-circumcision organizations. Some people, as I've stated before, like to challenge the data based solely on who is distributing it. This is a mistake, because while they may be biased, their sources are not. They are listed in black and white, so that you can read it straight from the horse's mouth--free of bias--if you don't believe it coming from the intactivists. My other sources are two AAP publications and information from the NKUDIC web page, which is an informative site about kidney problems. I have also used an excerpt from the Canadian Medical Association Journal. Please feel free check my sources and my sources' sources if you have any doubts. It is not worth a 2-10% rate of complication to lower risk of UTI by 1% at most.

Sources
Unknown, "Circumcision and Urinary Tract Infection." Circumcision Info & Resource Pages. URL: http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/
Unknown, "Circumcision and Urinary Tract Infection." Circumstitions. URL: http://www.circumstitions.com/Utis.html
Unknown, "Urinary Tract Infections in Children: Why They Occur and How to Prevent Them." AAP. URL: http://www.aafp.org/afp/980515ap/heller.html
Unknown, "Urinary Tract Infection and Circumcision." InfoCirc. URL: http://www.infocirc.org/uti2.htm
Unknown, "Urinary Tract Infections in Adults." NKUDIC. URL: http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/utiadult/#treatment
Unknown, "Circumcision Policy Statement." AAP. URL: http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;103/3/686
Fetus and Newborn Committee, Canadian Paediatric Society. "Neonatal Circumcision Revisited." Canadian Medical Association Journal, March 15, 1996, pp. 769-780.


http://voices.yahoo.com/circumcision-doesnt-effectively-prevent-urinary-tract-208991.html?cat=5



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http://www.circleaks.org/index.php?title=Vernon_G._Quaintance


Vernon Geoffrey Quaintance[1] is a 69-year-old pedophile[2][3][4] and photographer[5] who recently ran a children's computer club,[3] and molested altar boys in his church,[4] from Henley Gardens, Upper Norwood, England,[3] and was employed as a sacristan and server for the Order of Malta's Mass (Roman Catholicism).[2] Quaintance is a Circlist moderator (a private group that shares child circumcision pornography),[6] head of the Gilgal Society (another private group that shares circumcision pornography),[7] a member of the Acorn Society,[8] owner of infocirc.com,[9] gilgalsociety.org,[10] and a writer of erotic circumcision porn (including graphic descriptions of circumcising young boys while others masturbate).[11] On April 11th 2011, Quaintance was arrested after having been caught with a hoard of child porn.[3] Quaintance is friends with Jake Waskett (top ranking Wikipedia circumcision editor, and a member of the circumfetish group Circlist),[12] and has worked closely with circumcision proponent Brian J. Morris.[13][14] Quaintance is also connected to many pro-circumcision doctors, and even a great deal of the prominent "circumcision to prevent HIV" researchers that are published in academic journals.[13][14] Quaintance is a retired telephone engineer.[3]

There are those on the Internet who discuss the erotic stimulation they experience by watching other males being circumcised, swap fiction about it, and trade in videotapes of actual circumcisions.[15] Quaintance is one of these individuals.[16][17] Some call them Circumfetishists.[18]



The Gilgal Society (headed by Quaintance) is a UK-based not-for-profit organization administered by Quaintance.[19] Gilgal is Hebrew for "hill of foreskins." [20]

Groups such as the Gilgal Society, the Acorn Society, and the Cutting Club openly admit to a morbid fascination with circumcision to the point of sado-masochistic fetish. These groups advertise that doctors are among their members.[21]

Some Members and Associates of Gilgal Include Bertran Auvert, Robert C. Bailey, Stefan Bailis, Xavier Castellsagué, Mike Cormier, Guy Cox, Ilene Gelbaum, Daniel Halperin, Dawn Harvey, Sam Kunin, Brian J. Morris, Edgar J. Schoen, Roger Short, Howard J. Stang, Jake H. Waskett, Helen Weiss, Robin Willcourt, and Thomas E. Wiswell.[22] A quick search for these names in PubMed reveals that many of these are the most common researchers and editors of the latest circumcision to prevent HIV research, which is being funded the American government, and the World Bank.
Gilgal Porn



Published by The Gilgal Society

He had not reached puberty but soon would: a few hairs were starting to grow at the base of his penis. Neil was then asked to lie on the couch for the penis to be photographed. ...the doctor tested the fit of two sizes of Gomco Clamp bell. During this procedure Neil erected, but was not embarrassed by it and made no attempt to hide it.

Mark came in next and again dropped his trousers readily. He had reached puberty and was quite well developed. ... Its like an elephants trunk was the doctors comment, to which Mark heartily agreed. ... Photographs of his penis were taken...

He had realised after sex education lessons at school that he had a problem.

...the boys were given plenty of wine to relax them. ...the discussion was about the sex lives of the boys and their school friends. The doctor asked how often the boys wanked. ... The doctor showed the boys his microscope and asked if they had ever seen sperm under one. ... He suggested to Mark that if he wanted to, he could have a quiet wank whilst Neil was being circumcised... This was eagerly accepted. ... He lay back with his eyes closed and just let the doctor get on.

He returned to the surgery and put on his underpants (tight jockey briefs). His penis was guided up against his abdomen... Photographs had been taken...

We all returned to the lounge where Mark was watching TV, having had his quiet wank. ...the doctor put some of Marks semen on a slide and put it under the microscope on high power. Each of us looked at the live sperm swimming vigorously around in the semen.

...there is hope that the circumcision will give him the confidence to overcome his enuresis [bed wetting].

The boys also looked at the book and noted a number of horrors which they would be spared now that they were circumcised.

On this occasion there were three boys to be circumcised, two of them brothers aged 8 and 10. The doctor had planned to take the younger one first... ...did not need circumcision, but it was being done for uniformity with his brother

He went down fighting and, because he had just been screaming, appeared to stop breathing. This worried his father, but the doctor said it was quite normal...

Ians foreskin was long... ...it needed to come off.

After lunch we had a five-year-old to do. ... Robert has shown his off to his school-friends. I hope some of them ask their parents if they can have their penis circumcised too.


-- Acknowledgements to VQ [Vernon Quaintance]


Case histories and experiences of circumcision. Circumcision: An Ethomedical Study (p.191). Gilgal Society. [23][24]



Police raided Quaintance's home in Henley Gardens, Upper Norwood, after receiving a tip-off.[3] The wiki page you are currently reading on CircLeaks may have lead to his arrest.[citation needed] Quaintance was caught with a hoard of child porn, located in a box in his office. They found three video cassettes with nine-hours worth of clips showing boys as young as 11 engaging in sex acts. The videos seized included graphic footage of child abuse ranked at the second-highest level of severity. The children in these tapes were estimated to be between the ages of 11 and 17 years. Quaintance claims to have been celibate for his entire life. Quaintance admitted three counts of possession of indecent photographs of a child.[3]
Judge's Response

Judge Nicholas-Loraine Smith told him: "You said you had watched the videos but claimed to have got no sexual enjoyment. I'm afraid I very much doubt that since you retained them." But he said Quaintance's willingness to address his problems meant he could suspend his prison sentence.[3]
Response From Neighbors

Residents in Henley Gardens, where Quaintance is known as the respected head of the local community association, were shocked to hear of his conviction. One neighbour, who did not want to be named, said: "I know he is a very religious man and is committed to the church."[3]
Released

Quaintance was recently given a 40-week suspended sentence for possessing child pornography.[2]

The following image is from Court News UK, on April 17th 2012.[27]


Ran a Children's Group

Quaintance is a former chairman of Croydon Computer Club, who also started a free computer group for children.[3]
A Child Molester By Age 33

In an online book written by Mike Harper, the author remembers back at 11 years old of a much older Vernon Quaintance (in 1977-1979) pulling young Harper's foreskin back to imitate a circumcised penis while parked in a car. He also remembers Quaintance telling a circumcision joke, and an attempt to show young Harper Quaintance's penis.[28]




Croydon circumcision campaigner caught with child porn videos

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/Croydon-circumcision-campaigner-caught-child-porn/story-15866127-detail/story.html



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shinto-male wrote:

http://www.circleaks.org/index.php?title=Vernon_G._Quaintance


Vernon Geoffrey Quaintance[1] is a 69-year-old pedophile[2][3][4] and photographer[5] who recently ran a children's computer club,[3] and molested altar boys in his church,[4] from Henley Gardens, Upper Norwood, England,[3] and was employed as a sacristan and server for the Order of Malta's Mass (Roman Catholicism).[2] Quaintance is a Circlist moderator (a private group that shares child circumcision pornography),[6] head of the Gilgal Society (another private group that shares circumcision pornography),[7] a member of the Acorn Society,[8] owner of infocirc.com,[9] gilgalsociety.org,[10] and a writer of erotic circumcision porn (including graphic descriptions of circumcising young boys while others masturbate).[11] On April 11th 2011, Quaintance was arrested after having been caught with a hoard of child porn.[3] Quaintance is friends with Jake Waskett (top ranking Wikipedia circumcision editor, and a member of the circumfetish group Circlist),[12] and has worked closely with circumcision proponent Brian J. Morris.[13][14] Quaintance is also connected to many pro-circumcision doctors, and even a great deal of the prominent "circumcision to prevent HIV" researchers that are published in academic journals.[13][14] Quaintance is a retired telephone engineer.[3]

There are those on the Internet who discuss the erotic stimulation they experience by watching other males being circumcised, swap fiction about it, and trade in videotapes of actual circumcisions.[15] Quaintance is one of these individuals.[16][17] Some call them Circumfetishists.[18]



The Gilgal Society (headed by Quaintance) is a UK-based not-for-profit organization administered by Quaintance.[19] Gilgal is Hebrew for "hill of foreskins." [20]

Groups such as the Gilgal Society, the Acorn Society, and the Cutting Club openly admit to a morbid fascination with circumcision to the point of sado-masochistic fetish. These groups advertise that doctors are among their members.[21]

Some Members and Associates of Gilgal Include Bertran Auvert, Robert C. Bailey, Stefan Bailis, Xavier Castellsagué, Mike Cormier, Guy Cox, Ilene Gelbaum, Daniel Halperin, Dawn Harvey, Sam Kunin, Brian J. Morris, Edgar J. Schoen, Roger Short, Howard J. Stang, Jake H. Waskett, Helen Weiss, Robin Willcourt, and Thomas E. Wiswell.[22] A quick search for these names in PubMed reveals that many of these are the most common researchers and editors of the latest circumcision to prevent HIV research, which is being funded the American government, and the World Bank.
Gilgal Porn



Published by The Gilgal Society

He had not reached puberty but soon would: a few hairs were starting to grow at the base of his penis. Neil was then asked to lie on the couch for the penis to be photographed. ...the doctor tested the fit of two sizes of Gomco Clamp bell. During this procedure Neil erected, but was not embarrassed by it and made no attempt to hide it.

Mark came in next and again dropped his trousers readily. He had reached puberty and was quite well developed. ... Its like an elephants trunk was the doctors comment, to which Mark heartily agreed. ... Photographs of his penis were taken...

He had realised after sex education lessons at school that he had a problem.

...the boys were given plenty of wine to relax them. ...the discussion was about the sex lives of the boys and their school friends. The doctor asked how often the boys wanked. ... The doctor showed the boys his microscope and asked if they had ever seen sperm under one. ... He suggested to Mark that if he wanted to, he could have a quiet wank whilst Neil was being circumcised... This was eagerly accepted. ... He lay back with his eyes closed and just let the doctor get on.

He returned to the surgery and put on his underpants (tight jockey briefs). His penis was guided up against his abdomen... Photographs had been taken...

We all returned to the lounge where Mark was watching TV, having had his quiet wank. ...the doctor put some of Marks semen on a slide and put it under the microscope on high power. Each of us looked at the live sperm swimming vigorously around in the semen.

...there is hope that the circumcision will give him the confidence to overcome his enuresis [bed wetting].

The boys also looked at the book and noted a number of horrors which they would be spared now that they were circumcised.

On this occasion there were three boys to be circumcised, two of them brothers aged 8 and 10. The doctor had planned to take the younger one first... ...did not need circumcision, but it was being done for uniformity with his brother

He went down fighting and, because he had just been screaming, appeared to stop breathing. This worried his father, but the doctor said it was quite normal...

Ians foreskin was long... ...it needed to come off.

After lunch we had a five-year-old to do. ... Robert has shown his off to his school-friends. I hope some of them ask their parents if they can have their penis circumcised too.


-- Acknowledgements to VQ [Vernon Quaintance]


Case histories and experiences of circumcision. Circumcision: An Ethomedical Study (p.191). Gilgal Society. [23][24]



Police raided Quaintance's home in Henley Gardens, Upper Norwood, after receiving a tip-off.[3] The wiki page you are currently reading on CircLeaks may have lead to his arrest.[citation needed] Quaintance was caught with a hoard of child porn, located in a box in his office. They found three video cassettes with nine-hours worth of clips showing boys as young as 11 engaging in sex acts. The videos seized included graphic footage of child abuse ranked at the second-highest level of severity. The children in these tapes were estimated to be between the ages of 11 and 17 years. Quaintance claims to have been celibate for his entire life. Quaintance admitted three counts of possession of indecent photographs of a child.[3]
Judge's Response

Judge Nicholas-Loraine Smith told him: "You said you had watched the videos but claimed to have got no sexual enjoyment. I'm afraid I very much doubt that since you retained them." But he said Quaintance's willingness to address his problems meant he could suspend his prison sentence.[3]
Response From Neighbors

Residents in Henley Gardens, where Quaintance is known as the respected head of the local community association, were shocked to hear of his conviction. One neighbour, who did not want to be named, said: "I know he is a very religious man and is committed to the church."[3]
Released

Quaintance was recently given a 40-week suspended sentence for possessing child pornography.[2]

The following image is from Court News UK, on April 17th 2012.[27]


Ran a Children's Group

Quaintance is a former chairman of Croydon Computer Club, who also started a free computer group for children.[3]
A Child Molester By Age 33

In an online book written by Mike Harper, the author remembers back at 11 years old of a much older Vernon Quaintance (in 1977-1979) pulling young Harper's foreskin back to imitate a circumcised penis while parked in a car. He also remembers Quaintance telling a circumcision joke, and an attempt to show young Harper Quaintance's penis.[28]




Croydon circumcision campaigner caught with child porn videos

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/Croydon-circumcision-campaigner-caught-child-porn/story-15866127-detail/story.html






1. Stories do not show anything. How many times must that be repeated.
2. You use the APA as a source, but misrepresent their position- they do acknowledge that circumcision might have benefits, but argue that it is not strong enough to encourage routine circumcision. You should read your sources.
3. You must show that each peer reviewed paper is bloody with Circumcision money before you discredit them. Therefore, saying that people 'make money off cutting off infant foreskin' does not prove or disprove anything, unless any of my sources can be connected with them.
4. Therefore, you have made no point worth contending, and should abandon this whole affair, admit you are wrong like- dare I say it- a man.
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Going uncircumcised leaves one at a pretty high risk for phimosis, which requires circumcision anyways. I'm glad I got snipped and avoided that. Complaints about circumcision are the worst kind of first-world whining.
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1. Stories do not show anything. How many times must that be repeated.


stories often debunked your excuses for mutilations



2. You use the APA as a source, but misrepresent their position- they do acknowledge that circumcision might have benefits, but argue that it is not strong enough to encourage routine circumcision. You should read your sources.


There is no strong evidence to promote routine circumcision NO country in the world advocates routine male infant circumcision



3. You must show that each peer reviewed paper is bloody with Circumcision money before you discredit them. Therefore, saying that people 'make money off cutting off infant foreskin' does not prove or disprove anything, unless any of my sources can be connected with them.


people are making money off circumcision how do you explain this obsession with promoting making excuses calling them benefits and dehumanize those who dare to disagree? a circ cost$300-$400 multiply that by millions of circs a year this is a money making scheme. cosemtics also use baby's foreskin to make skin creams bio-tech industries also use baby foreskins for research the evidence is overwhelming this is big business



4. Therefore, you have made no point worth contending, and should abandon this whole affair, admit you are wrong like- dare I say it- a man.


it is you who should abandon this whole affair. the vast majority of males(over 85%) are uncircumcised and living healthy lives. America is the only country still promoting excuses for circumcision while hypocritically consuming close to half the world's Viagra due to thier epidemic of penis problems caused by circumcision, have an obsession with penis size due the circ reducing the size of their penises, have the highest STD rates in the first world/western world, and failing to see the hypocrisy in promoting circs in preventing problems they are suffering from at rates higher than the rest of the developed world






Going uncircumcised leaves one at a pretty high risk for phimosis, which requires circumcision anyways. I'm glad I got snipped and avoided that. Complaints about circumcision are the worst kind of first-world whining.




. at birth the foreskin is fused with the glans and slowly separate during puberty phimosis which affect adult males can be treated with a cream and manual stretching


http://www.norm-uk.org/phimosis_clinical_guidelines.html


Diagnosis
Non-retractability of the foreskin in childhood does not constitute phimosis. Ballooning during micturition is a harmless and transient phenomenon and is part of normal development requiring no treatment [ 6 ]. True phimosis has been defined as scarring of the tip of the prepuce, and is usually due to Balanitis Xerotica Obliterans (BXO) [ 7 ]. The incidence of pathological phimosis in boys has been recently reported as 0.4 cases/1000 boys per year, or 0.6% of boys affected by their 15th birthday [ 8 ]. The non-retractable foreskin in adult life may also be regarded as phimosis.
Treatment
The normal non-retractile foreskin of childhood must be recognised and left alone. Patients and their parents should be advised not to attempt forcible or premature retraction of the foreskin, and to avoid excessive washing with soap.

Once phimosis is diagnosed, the available treatments include topical corticosteroids, manual stretching, preputial plasty and circumcision. Conservative treatments should be tried in the first instance and surgery used as the treatment of last resort. Details of the various treatment options are given below.
Topical Steroids
A number of studies show that phimosis can be safely and effectively treated by the application of topical steroids in 80-90% of cases.[ 9-16 ]. Betamethasone cream 0.05% should be applied to the exterior and interior of the tip of the foreskin 2-3 times daily. The treatment should be discontinued as ineffective after 3 months if the foreskin has not become retractile during this time.
Conservative Surgery
A number of plastic corrections are available for the adult or adolescent non-retractable foreskin.[ 19-32. ]. These include preputial plasty, in which a dorsal, longitudinal incision is made through the constrictive band of the foreskin. The underlying tissue is spread with artery forceps to expose the Buck's fascia and the incision is closed transversely with absorbable sutures. This procedure has less morbidity than circumcision, and allows the prepuce to be retained.
Circumcision
As with any surgery, circumcision is very traumatic to a child. It is essentially irreversible and should be the treatment of last resort. Pathological phimosis due to BXO has been considered the one common absolute indication for circumcision.[ 33 ]. BXO however, is the same as Lichen Sclerosis Atrophicans (LSA) [ 34 ]. Circumcision has been reported to be ineffective in preventing or treating BXO.[ 35-37 ]. BXO does respond to topical corticosteroids,[ 38, ] topical testosterone,[ 39 ] or carbon dioxide laser treatment [ 40-41 ]. One report shows that long term antibiotic treatment is effective, but there is doubt as to whether this is due to antimicrobial activity.[ 42 ]
Cautions for Circumcision
Circumcision is essentially irreversible and should be the treatment of last resort. If a circumcision is to be performed, all the following patient criteria should be met.

Have a genuine therapeutic indication for circumcision, conservative treatment having been tried and failed.
Have understood the implications of circumcision and be willing to have the operation.
Have understood that circumcision has at least a 2% chance of serious complications.[ 43 ]
Have a supportive friend or relative to stay with them overnight.





How can I cure phimosis?

The best methods of curing phimosis involve stretching the foreskin gradually, so that after a while it can be retracted easily. Obviously stretching is preferred over the surgical techniques, particularly circumcision, as they leave the foreskin in its natural state.

Stretching using Glansie. The Glansie device is inserted in the opening of the foreskin. It is used to stretch the preputial ring - the fibrous ring at the end of the foreskin which prevents the foreskin from being fully retracted. Your medical practitioner may recommend that you use a steroid cream in conjunction with Glansie, rubbing the cream into the tight skin at the end of the foreskin. The steroid cream makes the skin more elastic and easier to stretch. The normal prescription is 0.05% Betamethasone.

More than 3000 people have cured their phimosis using Glansie.

Stretching using the fingers. Where the phimosis is very mild it may be possible to stretch the foreskin by pulling it back tightly against the head of the penis. Or the fingers can be inserted into the opening and used to stretch the foreskin. If the foreskin is only slightly tight, a minor case of phimosis, then the stretching can be accomplished using fingers inserted into the opening in the foreskin and applying outward pressure.

Preputioplasty. This is a surgical technique, a type of plastic surgery, where the foreskin is retained but adapted so that it can be fully retracted.

Circumcision. Circumcision is a relatively simple surgical technique which is sometimes appropriate as a solution to phimosis.


http://www.glansie.com/en/about.htm
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shinto-male wrote:


1. Stories do not show anything. How many times must that be repeated.


stories often debunked your excuses for mutilations



2. You use the APA as a source, but misrepresent their position- they do acknowledge that circumcision might have benefits, but argue that it is not strong enough to encourage routine circumcision. You should read your sources.


There is no strong evidence to promote routine circumcision NO country in the world advocates routine male infant circumcision



3. You must show that each peer reviewed paper is bloody with Circumcision money before you discredit them. Therefore, saying that people 'make money off cutting off infant foreskin' does not prove or disprove anything, unless any of my sources can be connected with them.


people are making money off circumcision how do you explain this obsession with promoting making excuses calling them benefits and dehumanize those who dare to disagree? a circ cost$300-$400 multiply that by millions of circs a year this is a money making scheme. cosemtics also use baby's foreskin to make skin creams bio-tech industries also use baby foreskins for research the evidence is overwhelming this is big business



4. Therefore, you have made no point worth contending, and should abandon this whole affair, admit you are wrong like- dare I say it- a man.


it is you who should abandon this whole affair. the vast majority of males(over 85%) are uncircumcised and living healthy lives. America is the only country still promoting excuses for circumcision while hypocritically consuming close to half the world's Viagra due to thier epidemic of penis problems caused by circumcision, have an obsession with penis size due the circ reducing the size of their penises, have the highest STD rates in the first world/western world, and failing to see the hypocrisy in promoting circs in preventing problems they are suffering from at rates higher than the rest of the developed world






Going uncircumcised leaves one at a pretty high risk for phimosis, which requires circumcision anyways. I'm glad I got snipped and avoided that. Complaints about circumcision are the worst kind of first-world whining.




. at birth the foreskin is fused with the glans and slowly separate during puberty phimosis which affect adult males can be treated with a cream and manual stretching


http://www.norm-uk.org/phimosis_clinical_guidelines.html


Diagnosis
Non-retractability of the foreskin in childhood does not constitute phimosis. Ballooning during micturition is a harmless and transient phenomenon and is part of normal development requiring no treatment [ 6 ]. True phimosis has been defined as scarring of the tip of the prepuce, and is usually due to Balanitis Xerotica Obliterans (BXO) [ 7 ]. The incidence of pathological phimosis in boys has been recently reported as 0.4 cases/1000 boys per year, or 0.6% of boys affected by their 15th birthday [ 8 ]. The non-retractable foreskin in adult life may also be regarded as phimosis.
Treatment
The normal non-retractile foreskin of childhood must be recognised and left alone. Patients and their parents should be advised not to attempt forcible or premature retraction of the foreskin, and to avoid excessive washing with soap.

Once phimosis is diagnosed, the available treatments include topical corticosteroids, manual stretching, preputial plasty and circumcision. Conservative treatments should be tried in the first instance and surgery used as the treatment of last resort. Details of the various treatment options are given below.
Topical Steroids
A number of studies show that phimosis can be safely and effectively treated by the application of topical steroids in 80-90% of cases.[ 9-16 ]. Betamethasone cream 0.05% should be applied to the exterior and interior of the tip of the foreskin 2-3 times daily. The treatment should be discontinued as ineffective after 3 months if the foreskin has not become retractile during this time.
Conservative Surgery
A number of plastic corrections are available for the adult or adolescent non-retractable foreskin.[ 19-32. ]. These include preputial plasty, in which a dorsal, longitudinal incision is made through the constrictive band of the foreskin. The underlying tissue is spread with artery forceps to expose the Buck's fascia and the incision is closed transversely with absorbable sutures. This procedure has less morbidity than circumcision, and allows the prepuce to be retained.
Circumcision
As with any surgery, circumcision is very traumatic to a child. It is essentially irreversible and should be the treatment of last resort. Pathological phimosis due to BXO has been considered the one common absolute indication for circumcision.[ 33 ]. BXO however, is the same as Lichen Sclerosis Atrophicans (LSA) [ 34 ]. Circumcision has been reported to be ineffective in preventing or treating BXO.[ 35-37 ]. BXO does respond to topical corticosteroids,[ 38, ] topical testosterone,[ 39 ] or carbon dioxide laser treatment [ 40-41 ]. One report shows that long term antibiotic treatment is effective, but there is doubt as to whether this is due to antimicrobial activity.[ 42 ]
Cautions for Circumcision
Circumcision is essentially irreversible and should be the treatment of last resort. If a circumcision is to be performed, all the following patient criteria should be met.

Have a genuine therapeutic indication for circumcision, conservative treatment having been tried and failed.
Have understood the implications of circumcision and be willing to have the operation.
Have understood that circumcision has at least a 2% chance of serious complications.[ 43 ]
Have a supportive friend or relative to stay with them overnight.





How can I cure phimosis?

The best methods of curing phimosis involve stretching the foreskin gradually, so that after a while it can be retracted easily. Obviously stretching is preferred over the surgical techniques, particularly circumcision, as they leave the foreskin in its natural state.

Stretching using Glansie. The Glansie device is inserted in the opening of the foreskin. It is used to stretch the preputial ring - the fibrous ring at the end of the foreskin which prevents the foreskin from being fully retracted. Your medical practitioner may recommend that you use a steroid cream in conjunction with Glansie, rubbing the cream into the tight skin at the end of the foreskin. The steroid cream makes the skin more elastic and easier to stretch. The normal prescription is 0.05% Betamethasone.

More than 3000 people have cured their phimosis using Glansie.

Stretching using the fingers. Where the phimosis is very mild it may be possible to stretch the foreskin by pulling it back tightly against the head of the penis. Or the fingers can be inserted into the opening and used to stretch the foreskin. If the foreskin is only slightly tight, a minor case of phimosis, then the stretching can be accomplished using fingers inserted into the opening in the foreskin and applying outward pressure.

Preputioplasty. This is a surgical technique, a type of plastic surgery, where the foreskin is retained but adapted so that it can be fully retracted.

Circumcision. Circumcision is a relatively simple surgical technique which is sometimes appropriate as a solution to phimosis.


http://www.glansie.com/en/about.htm




Sh(into) alone my perfect image bears,
Mature in dullness from his tender years.
Sh(into) alone, of all my Sons, is he
Who stands confirm'd in full stupidity.
The rest to some faint meaning make pretence,
But Sh(into) never deviates into sense.
Some Beams of Wit on other souls may fall,
Strike through and make a lucid interval;
But Sh(into)'s genuine night admits no ray,
His rising Fogs prevail upon the Day.

-John Dryden
MacFlecknoe (modified)


1. Stories show nothing, is does not debunk anything, and anyone can tell them. I just told one a few days ago, by saying that all anti-Circumcision activists are antisemites. I can tell one right now, about how all Japanese are evil because during WWII, they hunted children for sport, cut open the wombs of pregnant woman to toss the foetus in the air and catch 'em with their bayonets, force father to rape their daughters and sons to rape their mother, and kill civilians with unmatched savagry. Does this prove anything- it only show that those Japs at that time are evil, and nothing more.

2. You are just full of shit, aren't you? The APA does not recommend routine circumcision, which just says that while there are strong evidence that there are benefits (as I have already shown) from peer reviewed journals, it is not enough to enforce the routine and mandatory practice of circumcision. That decision is devolved onto the parents, who decides whether they want to snip the foreskin off or not. Thus, this does not show that infant circumcision should be banned.

3. Dehumanising is a word that you enjoy using, but I highly doubt you know what it means. If you did, you would be able to spot the irony of your statement right away- the people who- gasp- want to allow parents to cut off their children's foreskin are evil heartless things- not even human perhaps, and that your enemies have no respect for the human rights of infants. Pot calling the kettle much, innit? You repeat that same statement about how people are selling foreskin to make cosmetic- I have researched it a bit, and there is very few credicle sources to back up your claim, from 'NormUK' and other anti-Circumcision sites, to blogs- the few that I could find does not say that this practice is universal, and, indeed, is out of the norm. You must account for that before posting up random numbers, or at least show your sources.

4. The use of the larger numbers of uncircumcised people, which is actually at Seventy Percent, does not show anything, as I have repeated over and over again, but merely a childish attempt at trying to coerce people into your position. That the majority of people are uncircumcised does not show anything. That statistics comparing circumcised people and uncircumcised people, already posted, from peer-reviewed journals, indicate that circumcision does offer many benefits, so much so that even the UN promotes it in their campaign to stop HIV in Africa, has yet to be refuted, but with the insistent that there are other methods of preventing HIV (as I said, shows nothing but that there are other methods of preventing HIV, which the WHO says as much). You return to the statistics on America, about how it has the highest STD rate and highest viagra rate in the western world, all that, I am not quite sure if you gape is with America or Circumcision, though I suspect it is more the former than the latter. Again, I already dubunked that, and if you insist on repeating it, it will make it no more right, nor will it make me no more wrong. You should abandon this affair, you are clearly in the wrong here, and you seem to know it, judging by the extreme weakness of your arguments. Indeed, you have shown how, in the words of Alexander Pope,

With less reading than makes felon's scape
With less human genius than God gave ape

you have manage to sink your argument even further than your first- you have manage to go below the very bottom, the non plus ultra.


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Dr. Hatem al-Haj, PhD, MD, a senior committee member of the Association of Muslim Jurists of America (AMJA), has recently published a 41-page Arabic-language paper titled “Circumcision of Girls: Jurisprudence and Medicine.”

According to the “Translating Jihad” blog, Dr. al-Haj explains why female circumcision is recommended and even “an honor” for women. This is the practice known as female genital mutilation (FGM).

According to the UN World Health Organization (WHO), FGM ” has no health benefits for women,” and causes “severe bleeding and problems urinating, and later cysts, infections, infertility, as well as complications in childbirth.”

The Translating Jihad blog was established in 2010 to provide translations of Arabic-language news, opinion, and fatwas related to Islamic intolerance, totalitarianism, and jihad.

According to TJ, Dr. al-Haj, a medical doctor and fellow at the American Academy of Pediatrics, justifies his position by referring repeatedly to the words of classical Islamic scholars from the four schools of mainstream Sunni Islamic thought, all of which attest to FGM’s legitimacy under Islam. He also refers to the words of the Prophet Muhammad himself, who reportedly counseled people in his day on how to perform FGM in a way that would be “more beautiful to behold and better for [the woman's] husband.”

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/yoris-daily-news-clips/us-pediatric-doctor-favors-female-circumcision/2012/04/30/

kinda hypocritical for a jewish news site to condemn this man who is no different from pro-circumcision jewish doctors and rabbis in the pro-circ world






Two boys died in Bodhan town in the district late on Monday night due to over bleeding. A rural medical practitioner performed circumcision on the boys five days ago, which led to uncontrolled bleeding.

The deceased were identified as Arif, 4, and Azhar, ,3 of Rakasipet in Bodhan.

It is believed that the negligence of RMP led to the death of children. According to sources, parents got the two children circumcised five days ago at Masjid Colony in Rakasipet area.

After the surgery, the boys had suffered bleeding, but the RMP advised them not to worry and it could be cured with medicines.

But, Arif and Azhar, breathed their last on Monday.

Reportedly, the RMP agreed to pay Rs.3 lakh compensation to the parents of the deceased and no police case was registered in this regard.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/cities/regions/karimnagar/circumcision-goes-awry-two-boys-die-746



No protection to women



The Lancet, Volume 374, Issue 9685, Pages 229 - 237, 18 July 2009
Circumcision in HIV-infected men and its effect on HIV transmission to female partners in Rakai, Uganda: a randomised controlled trial

Dr, Prof Maria J Wawer MD, Frederick Makumbi PhD, Godfrey Kigozi MBChB, David Serwadda MMed, Stephen Watya MMed, Fred Nalugoda MHS, Dennis Buwembo MBChB, Victor Ssempijja ScM, Noah Kiwanuka MBChB, Prof Lawrence H Moulton PhD, Nelson K Sewankambo MMed, Steven J Reynolds MD, Thomas C Quinn MD, Pius Opendi MBChB, Boaz Iga MSc, Renee Ridzon MD, Oliver Laeyendecker MBA, Prof Ronald H Gray MD

Summary
Background
Observational studies have reported an association between male circumcision and reduced risk of HIV infection in female partners. We assessed whether circumcision in HIV-infected men would reduce transmission of the virus to female sexual partners.

Methods
922 uncircumcised, HIV-infected, asymptomatic men aged 15-49 years with CD4-cell counts 350 cells per ?L or more were enrolled in this unblinded, randomised controlled trial in Rakai District, Uganda. Men were randomly assigned by computer-generated randomisation sequence to receive immediate circumcision (intervention; n=474) or circumcision delayed for 24 months (control; n=448). HIV-uninfected female partners of the randomised men were concurrently enrolled (intervention, n=93; control, n=70) and followed up at 6, 12, and 24 months, to assess HIV acquisition by male treatment assignment (primary outcome). A modified intention-to-treat (ITT) analysis, which included all concurrently enrolled couples in which the female partner had at least one follow-up visit over 24 months, assessed female HIV acquisition by use of survival analysis and Cox proportional hazards modelling. This trial is registered with ClinicalTrials.gov, number NCT00124878.

Findings
The trial was stopped early because of futility. [That is, it failed to find any protection. It might have shown increased risk, but they weren't interested in that.] 92 couples in the intervention group and 67 couples in the control group were included in the modified ITT analysis. 17 (18%) women in the intervention group and eight (12%) women in the control group acquired HIV during follow-up (p=0·36). Cumulative probabilities of female HIV infection at 24 months were 21·7% (95% CI 12·7-33·4) in the intervention group and 13·4% (6·7-25·8) in the control group (adjusted hazard ratio 1·49, 95% CI 0·62-3·57; p=0·368).

Interpretation
Circumcision of HIV-infected men did not reduce HIV transmission to female partners over 24 months; longer-term effects could not be assessed. Condom use after male circumcision is essential for HIV prevention.

Funding
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation with additional laboratory and training support from the National Institutes of Health and the Fogarty International Center.
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Greater risk to women whose partners are circumcised:

Int J Epidemiol. 1994 Apr;23(2):371-80.

Risk factors associated with prevalent HIV-1 infection among pregnant women in Rwanda.
National University of Rwanda-Johns Hopkins University AIDS Research Team.
Chao A, Bulterys M, Musanganire F, Habimana P, Nawrocki P, Taylor E, Dushimimana A, Saah A.
Department of Epidemiology, School of Hygiene and Public Health, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD 21205.

Abstract: This study evaluated risk factors associated with prevalent HIV-1 infection among pregnant women in a semi-rural but densely populated area surrounding the town of Butare in Rwanda. Overall seroprevalence was 9.3% in 5690 pregnant women who sought antenatal care at one of five health centres. Factors associated with higher seroprevalence of HIV-1 included history of multiple sexual partners, history of at least one sexually transmitted disease (STD), relatively high socioeconomic status (SES), being unmarried, young age at first pregnancy, and low gravidity. Women who had used oral contraceptives, smoked more than one cigarette per day, whose partners were circumcised, and had had sex to support themselves were also at higher risk of being infected. A history of blood transfusion in the past 5 years was not associated with HIV-1 infection. History of multiple sexual partners, history of STD, high household income, partner circumcision, and past oral contraceptive use remained strongly associated with HIV-1 infection even when simultaneously controlling for other covariates. Among legally married women who lacked sexual behaviour risk factors, history of STD, high SES, young age at first pregnancy, and low gravidity were significantly associated with HIV-1 seroprevalence.

PMID: 8082965 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




Circumcsion does not protect black South Africans

A total of 2585 males over the age of 15 were administered questionnaires and provided specimens for HIV testing. 916 (35.4%) of them said they were circumcised. HIV prevalence among circumcised males was 10.7% and among uncircumcised males was 12.1%, p = 0.9 [i.e. no statistical significance]. Blacks were less likely to be circumcised (28.8%) compared to other racial groups, 42.6%, p = 0.002. When the data was stratified by racial group, circumcised Blacks showed similar rates of HIV as uncircumcised Blacks, (OR: 0.8, p = 0.4) however other racial groups showed a strong protective effect, (OR: 0.3, p = 0.01) [or rather, a correlation]. When the data are further stratified by age of circumcision, there is a slight protective effect [correlation] between early circumcision and HIV among Blacks, OR: 0.7, p = 0.4.
Conclusion In general, circumcision offers slight protection. The effect is much stronger in other racial groups than in blacks. This racial difference cannot be explained by age of circumcision.

HIV and circumcision in South Africa
C.A. Connolly, O. Shisana, L. Simbayi, M. Colvin.
Poster at the XV AIDS Conference in Bangkok [MoPeC3491]



Those "protective effects" disappeared on further analysis

South African Medical Journal, October 2008, Vol. 98, No. 10
Male circumcision and its relationship to HIV infection in South Africa: Results of a national survey in 2002

Catherine Connolly, Leickness C Simbayi, Rebecca Shanmugam, Ayanda Nqeketo

Objective. To investigate the nature of male circumcision and its relationship to HIV infection. Methods. Analysis of a sub-sample of 3 025 men aged 15 years and older who participated in the first national population-based survey on HIV/AIDS in 2002. Chi-square tests and Wilcoxon rank sum tests were used to identify factors associated with circumcision and HIV status, followed by a logistic regression model.

Results. One-third of the men (35.3%) were circumcised. The factors strongly associated with circumcision were age >50, black living in rural areas and speaking SePedi (71.2%) or IsiXhosa (64.3%). The median age was significantly older for blacks (18 years) compared with other racial groups (3.5 years), p <0.001. Among blacks, circumcisions were mainly conducted outside hospital settings. In 40.5% of subjects, circumcision took place after sexual debut; two-thirds of the men circumcised after their 17th birthday were already sexually active. HIV and circumcision were not associated (12.3% HIV positive in the circumcised group v. 12% HIV positive in the uncircumcised group). HIV was, however, significantly lower in men circumcised before 12 years of age (6.8%) than in those circumcised after 12 years of age (13.5%, p=0.02). When restricted to sexually active men, the difference that remained did not reach statistical significance (8.9% v. 13.6%, p=0.08.). There was no effect when adjusted for possible confounding.

Conclusion. Circumcision had no protective effect in the prevention of HIV transmission. This is a concern, and has implications for the possible adoption of the mass male circumcision strategy both as a public health policy and an HIV prevention strategy.
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Posted 5/2/12 , edited 5/2/12
I haven't read anything but the first post of this thread, but I think it's ridiculous to consider circumcision of males to be child abuse at all, and the same goes for raising them Jewish or any other religion for that matter.

Circumcision is only dangerous when applied to women, and raising your children in a particular faith is your right, and does not infringe upon their right to religious freedom.

I was raised Protestant and became a Catholic at the age of 18. I don't consider my family baptizing me as an infant and taking me to church and such and such to have been something coercive. One is free to choose any other religion later in life if one so desires. When you circumcise, baptize, or otherwise raise your child in a particular faith it can be assumed that if you are good parent and teacher of that faith they are quite likely to desire to keep that faith when they attain the use of reason, or else they can still choose to follow another path, but their decision in either case will not necessarily be the result of one forcing them to do anything. If one thinks otherwise I think they are just looking at it all the wrong way.
Posted 5/2/12

i_love_u_jesus wrote:

I haven't read anything but the first post of this thread, but I think it's ridiculous to consider circumcision of males to be child abuse at all, and the same goes for raising them Jewish or any other religion for that matter.

Circumcision is only dangerous when applied to women, and raising your children in a particular faith is your right, and does not infringe upon their right to religious freedom.

I was raised Protestant and became a Catholic at the age of 18. I don't consider my family baptizing me as an infant and taking me to church and such and such to have been something coercive. One is free to choose any other religion later in life if one so desires. When you circumcise, baptize, or otherwise raise your child in a particular faith it can be assumed that if you are good parent and teacher of that faith they are quite likely to desire to keep that faith when they attain the use of reason, or else they can still choose to follow another path.


Though reason operates on making sense of things, and faith operates on trustworthiness of an idea. When you remove some part of the body for a reason other than what is absolutely medically necessary, it is technically harmful.

Do as you wish, and keep the inborn faith.
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