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Nude pic messaging for minors- Should it be a felony?
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Posted 3/20/12
Recently, the police have been arresting and charging young teens who have sent nude photos of themselves to the kids they like with possession and distribution of child pornography.
This is a felony and can lead to serious consequences. These kids will be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. On top of all that, they will be bullied and cast out by their peers in school.
So do you think this is a suitable punishment? Or do you think it's too harsh?
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Posted 3/20/12
What, so the actual kids are getting arrested? I have pictures of me naked as a baby. Does that mean I should be arrested if I show it other people?
Haha, I ended up slightly off the point, but that's just...silly.
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23 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 3/20/12
I think for many people that is a way of exploring sexuality, and exploring that is important.
I don't see it as pornography, and it's certainly not something deserving the lable of sex offense, unless ofcourse the pictures weren't asked for.
It's a shame that some laws know no exceptions, because clearly such cases must be treated entirely different than other child pornography cases.
And punishing this is certainly a sad thing.

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Posted 3/20/12
Teens (or at least when I was one) always set out to explore and experiment. While these kids maybe should be chastised by their parents for being stupid (after all with the internet your johnson could be all over the place should someone choose) they should not be punished by the law. The law has no right to ruin someones future just because they thought it would be funny (or hot) to send nude pics to someone.
Posted 3/20/12

Marionetta wrote:

Recently, the police have been arresting and charging young teens who have sent nude photos of themselves to the kids they like with possession and distribution of child pornography.
This is a felony and can lead to serious consequences. These kids will be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. On top of all that, they will be bullied and cast out by their peers in school.
So do you think this is a suitable punishment? Or do you think it's too harsh?
The sentence highlighted in bold is the key to base on our discussion, as in what was the intend behind that behaviour and the sort of consequence it would result. And I would like to discuss both the act of sending nude photos by the minors and the punishment made by the rest of society.

Now for all intention and purpose, the young teens here could simply be mimicking human courtship rituals. But then you have to consider why they would desire to mimic this with someone they might only knew through virtual world. For all I know it can just be how their hormones were acting up during development, and they couldn't help themselves. Child development is problematic like that, it's nothing new.

OTOH, the technology which enabled this behaviour through the internet, weren't invented when the child protection act was first drafted. Not only that, the act itself was meant to process and punish fully developed adult criminals, while it served to protect underdeveloped minors. Furthermore, this new development in using criminal laws to process minors was based on the attitude of "get tough on crime" political movement. There's no science behind it.

Finally, punishment often time isn't the solution, when in fact it's both psychologically and sociologically proven to be a part of the problem.

Barry Schwartz: Using our practical wisdom
In an intimate talk, Barry Schwartz dives into the question "How do we do the right thing?" With help from collaborator Kenneth Sharpe, he shares stories that illustrate the difference between following the rules and truly choosing wisely.

So for Aristotle, the kind of rule-bending, rule exception-finding and improvisation that you see in skilled craftsmen is exactly what you need to be a skilled moral craftsman. And in interactions with people, almost all the time, it is this kind of flexibility that is required. A wise person knows when to bend the rules. A wise person knows when to improvise. And most important, a wise person does this improvising and rule-bending in the service of the right aims. If you are a rule-bender and an improviser mostly to serve yourself, what you get is ruthless manipulation of other people. So it matters that you do this wise practice in the service of others and not in the service of yourself. And so the will to do the right thing is just as important as the moral skill of improvisation and exception-finding. Together they comprise practical wisdom, which Aristotle thought was the master virtue....

... But the problem with relying on rules and incentives is that they demoralize professional activity, and they demoralize professional activity in two senses. First, they demoralize the people who are engaged in the activity. Judge Forer quits, and Ms. Dewey in completely disheartened. And second, they demoralize the activity itself. The very practice is demoralized, and the practitioners are demoralized. It creates people -- when you manipulate incentives to get people to do the right thing -- it creates people who are addicted to incentives. That is to say, it creates people who only do things for incentives.

Now the striking thing about this is that psychologists have known this for 30 years. Psychologists have known about the negative consequences of incentivizing everything for 30 years. We know that if you reward kids for drawing pictures, they stop caring about the drawing and care only about the reward. If you reward kids for reading books, they stop caring about what's in the books and only care about how long they are. If you reward teachers for kids' test scores, they stop caring about educating and only care about test preparation. If you were to reward doctors for doing more procedures -- which is the current system -- they would do more. If instead you reward doctors for doing fewer procedures, they will do fewer. What we want, of course, is doctors who do just the right amount of procedures and do the right amount for the right reason -- namely, to serve the welfare of their patients. Psychologists have known this for decades, and it's time for policymakers to start paying attention and listen to psychologists a little bit, instead of economists.
And speaking of incentives, this is how the "get tough on crime" movement did with both its positive and negative incentives program within the justice institution.

2 US Judges Plead guilty to selling children to private prisons!

Penn. Judges Plead Guilty To Taking Bribes For Placing Youths in Privately Owned Jails 1 of 2

An unprecedented case of judicial corruption is unfolding in Pennsylvania. Several hundred families have filed a class-action lawsuit against two former judges whove pleaded guilty to taking bribes in return for placing youths in privately owned jails. Judges Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conahan are said to have received $2.6 million for ensuring juvenile suspects were jailed in prisons operated by the companies PA Child Care and a sister company, Western PA Child Care. Some of the youths were jailed over the objections of their probation officers. An estimated 5,000 juveniles have been sentenced by Ciavarella since the scheme started in 2002. We speak to two youths sentenced by Ciavarella and to Bob Schwartz of the Juvenile Law Center.

Wanna boost the national GDP? Capitalize on corruption! Privatize the legal system! Fix the system so that justice isn't fairness, it's a commodity for sale.[/sarcasm]
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Posted 3/20/12
Sir, your wisdom scares even me.
I personally think that such a punishment is cruel. These are teenagers in middle and high school. They either have no idea what their doing, or they were pressured into doing it. They trusted the person they were sending these photos to were going to keep them secret. I think that if anyone is to be punished, it would be the person who is receiving the photos and sending them to their friends.
Posted 3/20/12

Marionetta wrote:

Sir, your wisdom scares even me.
I personally think that such a punishment is cruel. These are teenagers in middle and high school. They either have no idea what their doing, or they were pressured into doing it. They trusted the person they were sending these photos to were going to keep them secret. I think that if anyone is to be punished, it would be the person who is receiving the photos and sending them to their friends.
It's like my favourite mythical idol said, "Puny Banner isn't keeping the rest of the world safe from the Hulk, no. The Hulk is keeping the rest of the world safe from Puny Banner". My practical wisdom challenges conventional commonsense, to the point that I often shatter most people's false sense of safety and security mirage. Mines included(and often the first to go whenever I experienced a breakdown/spiritual awakening). Critical thinking is an awesome power and sacred discipline, practice it responsibly and treat it with respect, and hope that you'll survive from the experience while still retain your humanity. If you do, then moral reasoning can be one of the most personally dignifying and self-transcending experience ever known to human existence.

Damon Horowitz: Philosophy in prison
Damon Horowitz teaches philosophy through the Prison University Project, bringing college-level classes to inmates of San Quentin State Prison. In this powerful short talk, he tells the story of an encounter with right and wrong that quickly gets personal.

Jonathan Haidt: Religion, evolution, and the ecstasy of self-transcendence
Psychologist Jonathan Haidt asks a simple, but difficult question: why do we search for self-transcendence? Why do we attempt to lose ourselves? In a tour through the science of evolution by group selection, he proposes a provocative answer.

Here's an alternative course of action to consider other than mere punishment, and it's called "Truth and Reconciliation"; a restorative social justice process that has its root dated from the aboriginal cultural practice called The Healing Circle.

Bryan Stevenson: We need to talk about an injustice
In an engaging and personal talk -- with cameo appearances from his grandmother and Rosa Parks -- human rights lawyer Bryan Stevenson shares some hard truths about America's justice system, starting with a massive imbalance along racial lines: a third of the country's black male population has been incarcerated at some point in their lives. These issues, which are wrapped up in America's unexamined history, are rarely talked about with this level of candor, insight and persuasiveness.

Michelle Alexander at Riverside: New Jim Crow convict under-caste
Legal scholar Michelle Alexander argues persuasively we have not ended racial caste in America; we have merely redesigned it. Jim Crow and legal racial segregation has been replaced by mass incarceration as a system of social control. ---More African Americans are under correctional control today than were enslaved in 1850--- Alexander reviews American racist history from the colonies to the Clinton administration, delineating its deliberate transformation into the war on drugs. She provides analysis of the effect of this mass incarceration upon former inmates who will be discriminated against, legally, for the rest of their lives, denied employment, housing, education, and public benefits. Most provocatively, she reveals how both the move toward colorblindness and affirmative action may blur our vision of injustice.

Dr. Gary Smith's Native American Healing Circle at Habilitat 2012
Healing circles are conducted all around the world, some in an informal fashion and others with a great deal of formality and ritual and observance of long standing tradition. The common objective though is to provide a space which allows us to transcend our normal self and to gain access to our higher self or beyond and to facilitate healing and greater self understanding and knowledge.
We wanna know who among us need the most healing in our society? Then look no further than all the visible minorities being targeted by "get tough on crime" social movement.
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Posted 3/22/12
Child pornography is child pornography, whether the minor is agreeing to the material or even distributing the material. There should be some kind of legal punishment for children who are spreading around nude pictures of themselves, however, labeling them as sex offenders i utterly absurd. This punishment is definitely far, far too severe for kids who are just sexually exploring.
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Posted 3/22/12

MilianViolet wrote:
There should be some kind of legal punishment for children who are spreading around nude pictures of themselves


Really? Why? And what do you reckon would be a suiting punishment?

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Posted 3/22/12 , edited 3/22/12
Well teens are going to be sexually active no matter what. Depends on the state or country but pretty much a 16 year old is still considered a child, but lots of 16 year olds have plenty of sexual activity under their belts, and will have seen their partner naked. I don't see any reason for it to be different if 2 people in love are in the bedroom naked together and if one of them has a picture of them naked on their computer or phone. Pictures aren't even as impressionable as the real thing in the flesh right in front of you. Does that mean it should be illegal for someone to look at their lover while they are having sex? I'd hate for any law like this to go into effect and have people afraid to turn the lights on in the room, that they might see someone naked.
btw here's a picture of me naked --->
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Posted 3/22/12
Idiotic. Let kids be kids I say.
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Posted 3/22/12

MasterOfTheInternet wrote:


MilianViolet wrote:
There should be some kind of legal punishment for children who are spreading around nude pictures of themselves


Really? Why? And what do you reckon would be a suiting punishment?



Yes, really, because it's illegal... I think that most of the time when kids do things like this, they don't really understand the gravity of what it can become, so they should only get something like community service and someone should thoroughly explain the dangers of doing something like this. I think the punishment should be less because they aren't actually committing any violent sex crimes or inflicting any harm on anyone else (directly). If it continues happening, that's when they need a more severe punishment. When you're 18 you can give as many naked pictures of yourself to anyone you want. Still, it's ridiculous for a kid to be labeled a sex offender because he/she texted a naked picture of himself/herself to his/her boyfriend/girlfriend.
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Posted 3/22/12

JustineKo2 wrote:

Well teens are going to be sexually active no matter what. Depends on the state or country but pretty much a 16 year old is still considered a child, but lots of 16 year olds have plenty of sexual activity under their belts, and will have seen their partner naked. I don't see any reason for it to be different if 2 people in love are in the bedroom naked together and if one of them has a picture of them naked on their computer or phone. Pictures aren't even as impressionable as the real thing in the flesh right in front of you. Does that mean it should be illegal for someone to look at their lover while they are having sex? I'd hate for any law like this to go into effect and have people afraid to turn the lights on in the room, that they might see someone naked.
btw here's a picture of me naked --->


You're right, but I think the law is about a different issue. The issue isn't a boy seeing a girl naked or a girl seeing boy naked. The issue is the girls dumbass sister or the boys asshole friend somehow getting the picture and sending all over the school or posting it on the internet. I don't think kids will be intentionally malicious, but everyone knows that these things can get out of hand. The issue here is CHILD PORNOGRAPHY. Child pornography is and should be illegal. If you don't mind me asking, if you had a child, would you let your child be a pornstar? If the answer is no, then you should also have a problem a teenager having naked pictures of themselves spread around. Actually, I think it is more of a problem because the picture is almost definitely going to be a digital file. I don't think that it would be as bad if it was just one photo from film with no copies, but, really, who has those anymore? The problem is that they're just too easy to share, so wait until you're 18 years old.
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Posted 3/23/12
This is a felony and can lead to serious consequences. These kids will be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. On top of all that, they will be bullied and cast out by their peers in school.
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Posted 3/26/12

Harris45 wrote:

This is a felony and can lead to serious consequences. These kids will be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. On top of all that, they will be bullied and cast out by their peers in school.


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