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Nude pic messaging for minors- Should it be a felony?
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Posted 3/26/12

Harris45 wrote:

This is a felony and can lead to serious consequences. These kids will be labeled as sex offenders for the rest of their lives. On top of all that, they will be bullied and cast out by their peers in school.


Yep
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Posted 3/26/12

MilianViolet
Yes, really, because it's illegal... I think that most of the time when kids do things like this, they don't really understand the gravity of what it can become, so they should only get something like community service...


Why? The "crime" has already been commited. So why should they be punished for something that they can't undo and only affect themselves?
I agree they should be explained why it can be dangerous, but community service? For just exploring their sexuality?
What purpose does that serve?
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Posted 3/26/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:
Why? The "crime" has already been commited. So why should they be punished for something that they can't undo and only affect themselves?
I agree they should be explained why it can be dangerous, but community service? For just exploring their sexuality?
What purpose does that serve?


Disagreeing with a law is not agreeing to break it. If a law is broken, then some kind of negative consequence is needed. It doesn't matter how frivolous the law may be. Saying that they shouldn't be punished because they can't undo the crime is like saying that a murderer shouldn't be punished because he can't bring a person back to life.

It doesn't bother me if a teenager sends a naked picture of him/herself to a boyfriend or girlfriend, but it does bother me that so many people think that it's okay to break the law just because the don't like it. It pisses me off. You're not above the law. Follow it like everyone else. When the law changes, my opinion will change too.

Also, the worst thing about community service is the fact that it can humiliate you and hurt your reputation, which is exactly what will happen if a naked photo happens to get spread around the school or around the town you live in. Students get cut from sports teams, get bullied, lose scholarships, can't get part time jobs... it just becomes a huge mess. If they can't handle community service, then they can't even begin to handle a leaked nude. I think it's a fitting consequence because of the similar results.
Posted 3/26/12

MilianViolet wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:
Why? The "crime" has already been commited. So why should they be punished for something that they can't undo and only affect themselves?
I agree they should be explained why it can be dangerous, but community service? For just exploring their sexuality?
What purpose does that serve?


Disagreeing with a law is not agreeing to break it. If a law is broken, then some kind of negative consequence is needed. It doesn't matter how frivolous the law may be. Saying that they shouldn't be punished because they can't undo the crime is like saying that a murderer shouldn't be punished because he can't bring a person back to life.

It doesn't bother me if a teenager sends a naked picture of him/herself to a boyfriend or girlfriend, but it does bother me that so many people think that it's okay to break the law just because the don't like it. It pisses me off. You're not above the law. Follow it like everyone else. When the law changes, my opinion will change too.

Also, the worst thing about community service is the fact that it can humiliate you and hurt your reputation, which is exactly what will happen if a naked photo happens to get spread around the school or around the town you live in. Students get cut from sports teams, get bullied, lose scholarships, can't get part time jobs... it just becomes a huge mess. If they can't handle community service, then they can't even begin to handle a leaked nude. I think it's a fitting consequence because of the similar results.
How can something like community service, which adds social goods towards members of the community as a whole, can be humiliating? There's something fundamentally wrong with your perspective, understanding, and values on how restorative social justice really works.

The Call of Restorative Justice P2
Well known and respected for her decades of activism, education and outreach, Dr. Liz Elliott "...went where others feared to tread, with some of our most vulnerable citizens, and touched their lives and their hearts.", says colleague Dr. Brenda Morrison. Dr. Rob Gordon, Director of the School of Criminology at Simon Fraser University, announces, "We will do our level best to ensure that the spirit of Liz Elliott continues to frame the dialogues about the social justice issues that she held most dear. The annual memorial lecture will move her ideas into the public domain."
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Posted 3/26/12 , edited 3/26/12


Volunteering for community service and having to do a certain number of hours are not the same thing. When a criminal HAS to pick up trash in the park or HAS to work at the senior citizens center, they get a bad reputation. I've seen this happen. More than once. These are kids were talking about. There's nothing cool about community service when you're a kid. I'm talking about real life here. It's not only the community service it's the criminality attached to it. It doesn't last very long, maybe a few months or a couple years. Nothing that really prevents a kid from living his life, but it is a small taste of the embarrassment that would result from a leaked nude picture. Which was my point in the first place.
Posted 3/26/12

MilianViolet wrote:



Volunteering for community service and having to do a certain number of hours are not the same thing. When a criminal HAS to pick up trash in the park or HAS to work at the senior citizens center, they get a bad reputation. I've seen this happen. More than once. These are kids were talking about. There's nothing cool about community service when you're a kid. I'm talking about real life here. It's not only the community service it's the criminality attached to it. It doesn't last very long, maybe a few months or a couple years. Nothing that really prevents a kid from living his life, but it is a small taste of the embarrassment that would result from a leaked nude picture. Which was my point in the first place.
There's nothing personally meaningful and of social value in community service? I think you still don't understand what restorative social justice is all about, it's not something like trash picking and visiting seniors. For examples, it can be about volunteering at community sexual abuse workshops, or to serve other who are less fortunate like "end of life" patients. Restorative social justice is all about discovering a better way than mere punishment, so that everyone's dignity can be healed. Not pointless revenge mentality.

The Youtube video I linked to you as a reference is close to one and a half hours long, you've a lot of catching up to do before you can even begin offering something remotely constructive and relevant than your per usual stereotype.
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Posted 3/26/12


Are you powered by IBM? I'm talking about the reputation that kids can get from being made to do community service. I didn't say anything about what kind of benefits the actual community service has. That's not what this is about. Jesus Christ.
Posted 3/26/12 , edited 3/26/12

MilianViolet wrote:



Are you powered by IBM? I'm talking about the reputation that kids can get from being made to do community service. I didn't say anything about what kind of benefits the actual community service has. That's not what this is about. Jesus Christ.
No, I just happen to be better at critical thinking. Your opinion on my person is irrelevant. Furthermore, when we now have machines that can actually read human emotions better than some of us, you've actually made a compliment.

TEDxSF - Roz Picard - Emotion Technology
Professor Rosalind W. Picard, ScD is founder and director of the Affective Computing research group at the MIT Media Lab, co-director of the Things That Think consortium, and leader of the new and growing Autism & Communication Technology Initiative at MIT. In April 2009 she co-founded Affectiva, Inc., where she serves as chairman and chief scientist.

And no, the focus on restorative social justice was never on vain socioeconomic status like reputation. No matter how narcissistic youths are on the internet, they're not celebrities in real life. Therefore their reputation within their real life community means little to them; their internet anonymity means that their real life reputation was never their concern to begin with.

And the fact that you were completely unaware on the reality of community service, is why your stereotypical and biased opinion regarding the subject is unrealistic.

Finally no, one of the questions stated by the OP is about an alternative other than mere punishment that doesn't work.
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Posted 3/27/12

DomFortress wrote:


MilianViolet wrote:



Are you powered by IBM? I'm talking about the reputation that kids can get from being made to do community service. I didn't say anything about what kind of benefits the actual community service has. That's not what this is about. Jesus Christ.
No, I just happen to be better at critical thinking. Your opinion on my person is irrelevant. Furthermore, when we now have machines that can actually read human emotions better than some of us, you're actually made a compliment.

TEDxSF - Roz Picard - Emotion Technology
Professor Rosalind W. Picard, ScD is founder and director of the Affective Computing research group at the MIT Media Lab, co-director of the Things That Think consortium, and leader of the new and growing Autism & Communication Technology Initiative at MIT. In April 2009 she co-founded Affectiva, Inc., where she serves as chairman and chief scientist.

And no, the focus on restorative social justice was never on vain socioeconomic status like reputation. No matter how narcissistic youths are on the internet, they're not celebrities in real life. Therefore their reputation within their real life community means little to them; their internet anonymity means that their real life reputation was never their concern to begin with.

And the fact that you were completely unaware on the reality of community service is why your stereotypical and biased opinion regarding the subject is unrealistic.

Finally no, one of the questions stated by the OP is about an alternative other than mere punishment that doesn't work.


I asked if you were powered by IBM because you're consistently missing the whole concept of what I'm trying to say. I may not have been clear, but it still isn't necessary for you to insult me multiple times when you don't even understand what I'm talking about. You're arguing with things that I haven't even said. I know what the purpose of "restorative social justice" is, but the the desired result isn't always the one we get. I know many people who have been assigned community service and their view of it was no more than they were being made to do something that they didn't want to do. Where I come from the kind of community service that's assigned to people who commit crimes aren't the big things; it's the stuff that they obviously wouldn't want to do and it is meant as a punishment. Now, I understand that may be a flaw in the way "justice" is carried out in this area, but this definitely isn't the only place that it's like that, it's meant to be more than just a punishment, but that's not always the reality of it. I've volunteered a lot around my community and the things that I've done like helping to reconstruct old buildings, helping with the distribution of food, organizing charities at Christmas time, etc.. When people commit small crimes in my community they are hardly ever assigned to organizations like this. The judges around here aren't going to give criminals the responsibility of such important tasks. It may not be a proper execution of the system, but in many cases, that's the way it's done. I'm simply suggesting utilizing what's already there. It probably won't happen, but it's just a suggestion. This is a Crunchyroll thread, not a meeting of Congress.

I'm not sure if you're actually making or point or just trying to insult me again. I know that they're not "celebrities", but even if they don't really have a great reputation, they will once a nude photo gets out. Everyone will know who it is and they'll only be interested in the fact that they took a nude photo. People may be more confident on the internet, but it's absurd to say that they don't care about what happens to them in the real world. If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many kids killing themselves because of bullying. I'm not saying that something like this would mark them for life, but when your in high school, there really isn't much of a world outside of the school walls. I'll admit that some of the things I mentioned before like, getting a part time job, may not be so much of a problem in big cities like New York or LA (those things may only apply in slightly smaller cities where news travels and people know each other), but once you walk inside that school, you're the kid that's known for spreading around nude photos. Also, in high school, some kids actually are celebrities in their town. The quarter back, the head cheerleader, the valedictorian, the coolest kid in school. These people all have pretty big reputations and if those reputations are threatened, it could seem disastrous to a teenager.

I wasn't talking about people who are just spreading pictures of themselves on the internet as someone else. I was talking about real live people who are sending pictures of themselves to other real live people and the situation getting out of hand. I'm really not sure how the issue of an alternative internet persona came into this.

I think we both know that things aren't always done by the book. It doesn't mean it's right, but that's the way it is. I am not "unaware of the reality of community service". I am very aware of the fact that the justice system isn't always used the way it's suppose to be. And yes, my opinion is definitely biased. Every opinion ever occupied by any person in world is biased. Whether you want to admit it or not, your opinion, just like mine, is influenced by your experiences and your perspective influence every opinion you have. If opinions weren't biased, then we would all have the same one. And yes, my suggestion may also be unrealistic, but like I said, this is a Crunchyroll thread, not a meeting of Congress. I hope I was able to clear up any misunderstandings that may have resulted from my original post. I wasn't trying to define the justice system, I was just giving my opinion on the topic. Maybe community service may not be a great idea, and maybe punishing someone may not be the best course of action for a crime like this, but the state isn't calling me to ask for suggestions. I was just making a point and wasn't really that much of a stretch if it was a stretch at all.
Posted 3/31/12
if it's a minor, it's better to sue the parents or the qualified guardian too.
Posted 3/31/12 , edited 3/31/12
This is an example of how laws can carry over into a period of time when the law is no longer appropriate.

Obviously someone sending an email or phone photo msg of themselves to another individual is not attempting to exploit the sexuality of a child for personal gain.

To charge someone with a felony because of the written letter of the law, in a case like this, is a wonderful argument for jury nullification. I can see charging an adult that happened to come across, and kept, said photo -- but to actually plop a felony charge on some kid because they sent a steamy (and probably regrettable) photo to their boyfriend?

If you want to discourage this kind of practice, write a new law. Don't try to apply some existing but outdated law towards a situation that was not even vaguely imagined by the original law-makers; if you do this, it will only result in completely inconsistent enforcement -- plenty of cops, DA's, and judges would not give it a moments consideration while others would use the law as written to its maximum possible effect. When this happens, people tend to stop taking the law seriously and focus more on the inconsistent nature of law enforcement.

This was (and I assume still is) the case in California, where if two 17 year olds have sex with each other, it is possible for both to be charged with a crime (since both parties are having sexual relations with a minor). It's a ludicrous law that was never written properly in the first place, and as a result there is effectively no enforcement of the law. Most people don't even know that the law exists, and among those that do know about the law, the general opinion is expressed best by bemused chuckling. The point of this anecdote -- a law will never be respected solely and simply because it is the law, nor does it especially deserve to be respected for said reason.
Posted 4/19/12 , edited 4/19/12

MilianViolet wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


MilianViolet wrote:



Are you powered by IBM? I'm talking about the reputation that kids can get from being made to do community service. I didn't say anything about what kind of benefits the actual community service has. That's not what this is about. Jesus Christ.
No, I just happen to be better at critical thinking. Your opinion on my person is irrelevant. Furthermore, when we now have machines that can actually read human emotions better than some of us, you're actually made a compliment.

TEDxSF - Roz Picard - Emotion Technology
Professor Rosalind W. Picard, ScD is founder and director of the Affective Computing research group at the MIT Media Lab, co-director of the Things That Think consortium, and leader of the new and growing Autism & Communication Technology Initiative at MIT. In April 2009 she co-founded Affectiva, Inc., where she serves as chairman and chief scientist.

And no, the focus on restorative social justice was never on vain socioeconomic status like reputation. No matter how narcissistic youths are on the internet, they're not celebrities in real life. Therefore their reputation within their real life community means little to them; their internet anonymity means that their real life reputation was never their concern to begin with.

And the fact that you were completely unaware on the reality of community service is why your stereotypical and biased opinion regarding the subject is unrealistic.

Finally no, one of the questions stated by the OP is about an alternative other than mere punishment that doesn't work.


I asked if you were powered by IBM because you're consistently missing the whole concept of what I'm trying to say. I may not have been clear, but it still isn't necessary for you to insult me multiple times when you don't even understand what I'm talking about. You're arguing with things that I haven't even said. I know what the purpose of "restorative social justice" is, but the the desired result isn't always the one we get. I know many people who have been assigned community service and their view of it was no more than they were being made to do something that they didn't want to do. Where I come from the kind of community service that's assigned to people who commit crimes aren't the big things; it's the stuff that they obviously wouldn't want to do and it is meant as a punishment. Now, I understand that may be a flaw in the way "justice" is carried out in this area, but this definitely isn't the only place that it's like that, it's meant to be more than just a punishment, but that's not always the reality of it. I've volunteered a lot around my community and the things that I've done like helping to reconstruct old buildings, helping with the distribution of food, organizing charities at Christmas time, etc.. When people commit small crimes in my community they are hardly ever assigned to organizations like this. The judges around here aren't going to give criminals the responsibility of such important tasks. It may not be a proper execution of the system, but in many cases, that's the way it's done. I'm simply suggesting utilizing what's already there. It probably won't happen, but it's just a suggestion. This is a Crunchyroll thread, not a meeting of Congress.

I'm not sure if you're actually making or point or just trying to insult me again. I know that they're not "celebrities", but even if they don't really have a great reputation, they will once a nude photo gets out. Everyone will know who it is and they'll only be interested in the fact that they took a nude photo. People may be more confident on the internet, but it's absurd to say that they don't care about what happens to them in the real world. If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many kids killing themselves because of bullying. I'm not saying that something like this would mark them for life, but when your in high school, there really isn't much of a world outside of the school walls. I'll admit that some of the things I mentioned before like, getting a part time job, may not be so much of a problem in big cities like New York or LA (those things may only apply in slightly smaller cities where news travels and people know each other), but once you walk inside that school, you're the kid that's known for spreading around nude photos. Also, in high school, some kids actually are celebrities in their town. The quarter back, the head cheerleader, the valedictorian, the coolest kid in school. These people all have pretty big reputations and if those reputations are threatened, it could seem disastrous to a teenager.

I wasn't talking about people who are just spreading pictures of themselves on the internet as someone else. I was talking about real live people who are sending pictures of themselves to other real live people and the situation getting out of hand. I'm really not sure how the issue of an alternative internet persona came into this.

I think we both know that things aren't always done by the book. It doesn't mean it's right, but that's the way it is. I am not "unaware of the reality of community service". I am very aware of the fact that the justice system isn't always used the way it's suppose to be. And yes, my opinion is definitely biased. Every opinion ever occupied by any person in world is biased. Whether you want to admit it or not, your opinion, just like mine, is influenced by your experiences and your perspective influence every opinion you have. If opinions weren't biased, then we would all have the same one. And yes, my suggestion may also be unrealistic, but like I said, this is a Crunchyroll thread, not a meeting of Congress. I hope I was able to clear up any misunderstandings that may have resulted from my original post. I wasn't trying to define the justice system, I was just giving my opinion on the topic. Maybe community service may not be a great idea, and maybe punishing someone may not be the best course of action for a crime like this, but the state isn't calling me to ask for suggestions. I was just making a point and wasn't really that much of a stretch if it was a stretch at all.
I understand fully that you're simply belittling and dismissing the whole discussion down to a matter of "opinions", compounded with apologetic excuses for a justice system that's obviously broken, while contradicting your own argument by how you stated that your own opinions(not mine) were "biased", yet somehow you're still aware of "reality" when you made your cynical opinion.

Furthermore, your belittlement and dismissive attitude was a fear management strategy, while you were just trying to lessen your feeling of vulnerability by yourself getting even with me. Which quite frankly is rather pathetic and vain when we think about it, because you didn't really made any definitive point against my argument made for restorative justice system.

In the mean time, you ought to consider the argument made against your rather pathetic and apologetic excuses for what's nonetheless heavy-handed curtly and oppression. Your modern retributive justice system is nothing more than an inhumane and corporate institutionalized aggression and violence for dominance and obedience, in the form of revenge(not punishment) made profitable.
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not sharing my asl
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Posted 4/20/12
that's just... gross.
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Posted 5/14/12 , edited 5/14/12
It's sick, but the punishment is not fit for the crime. I don't believe it should be a felony.

Just the other day, I watched a film about a 21-year old who was labeled as a sex offender because his girlfriend was 17 and her mom didn't like the guy so she reported him. It messed up the guy for a good few years. He had to move constantly, the label became the first thing he was defined by strangers. His scholarships were taken away, nobody would hire him, nobody wanted to be his friend. For what?
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Posted 5/20/12
Yes. Those kids might be ruining their future by putting those pictures out in the open -- so the state should step in and ruin it for them. Makes perfect sense.

"Protect the kids!"
"Which kids?"
"Not THOSE kids!"
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