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why do people lie on forum topics?
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32 / M / Canada
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Posted 9/1/12

AshRandom wrote:


DesidusRyke wrote:


AshRandom wrote:


Amunat wrote:



In all fairness, reading ten thousands of books doesn't equal great wisdom... Did you ever consider that your hate towards people with beliefs is just as destructive as religous fundamentalism?

One more time....

The words hate & intolerance as used in regards to people of religious faith entails:
Genocide, the destruction of nations, and the torture of innocent men, women, and children.

The words hate & intolerance as used in regards to atheists and free thinkers entails:
Destroying bullshit arguments, and hurting no one.


Atheism and free thinking has never been the one with all the power, so that argument is kinda moot. I am sure that if atheism does gain the power of being the main idea (which I think is likely) I don't have too much hope in the fact that it won't follow in the same footsteps as religions have. It comes down to the very simplistic "My ideals are better than yours" taken to extremes whether or not because of a belief in God, Gods, or Goddesses.

Moral relativism trumps dogmatism. Of course it's better, don't be silly, free thinkers actually think things through before coming to decisions. They aren't handed dubious orders from on-high.

You sure that argument is moot because reasonable people will start doing unreasonable things just the same way deluded scripture following fundamentalists do? That's a bit of a leap. Especially when the most secular countries in the world also have the lowest crime rates.

Atheists don't follow dogmatic nonsense, in fact we are defined by the fact that we refuse to follow it.

Only fundamentalist brainwashing can lead to religious actions like: ritual child mutilation, murdering women as witches (still happening in radicalized Christian Africa today), murdering innocent men for being homosexual (same), murdering people in other denominations of the same faith (never ending), murdering people in denominations of wholly different faiths (never ending), murdering people with no faith (never ending), hijacking planes and flying them into buildings, blowing planes up with everyone on board, the deliberate targeting of civilians (never ending), the deliberate massacre of civilians in the form of genocide because of their religious affiliations (never ending), suppressing social equality, suppressing religious equality (you can thank free thinkers for the separation of church and state), suppressing sexual equality, suppressing marriage equality, suppressing reproductive rights, suppressing free speech, puritanical censorship of television, puritanical censorship of radio, puritanical censorship of the internet, puritanical censorship of artwork, child rape by trusted moral authorities of God, institutionalized child rape within the church, institutionalized child rape as protected by an oligarchy of priests who knowingly place pedophiles in churches around the world and then shift them across the globe when they're caught raping children and then the organization browbeats the parents of raped children into thinking they must not call the police, they must forgive child rapists and ignore the suffering of innocent children, encouraging the spread of AIDS in Africa by calling condoms evil, preventing the eradication of polio and allowing it to resurface because scripture dictates avoidance of modern medicine, allowing children with easily curable medical conditions to suffer and die because scripture dictates avoidance of modern medicine, shall I continue....?

None of those actions have motivations which free thinkers hold to. Atheists lack collective motivation, or willingness to enact any of it. So we can at least cross that stuff off the list of atrocities we're used to seeing in this religiously dominated world.


LOL well you just defined the well known "evils" of Christians but fail to look at evils created by free thinkers. Lets just take the Nazi's though germany IS largely christian. Hitler however is not a follower and his ideals are what lead to the Nazi way. Now if you look at your list and compare them with the things involved in that war you won't see many that don't line up to be as bad or worse. Bad disgusting people are out there no matter religion or no. I am not defending those people I just think its silly that one would think that its going to dissapear because of a different belief system is in place.

As for atheists lacking collective motivation that is not correct either. I am not saying that atheist will do wrong to protect atheism, but they will for what they believe in. Morals, ideals, politics... pretty much the same things that motivate the religious. Mob mentality will always be a part of humans which means that it is always possible for the above stuff you posted or new and just as aweful things to occur.

But whatever you obviously have rose colored glasses where atheism is concerned and honestly I think atheism has hope as long as long as there is a value/moral basing to guide it, but as of now there isn't. Anyways this is my last post on the subject, thanks for the discussion on it.
Posted 9/1/12 , edited 9/1/12
Because of that: ^. How funny.
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26 / M
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Posted 9/1/12

AshRandom wrote:


destinypi wrote:
Stating that the infinitely complex is impossible to understand is another sign of your weak resolve.

Hey you know, for the record infinite actually means infinite. First of all we don't have infinite capacity within our minds and furthermore even if we did -- we'll never have enough time because it never ends. A god of infinite complexity is like, the endless subway sandwich of God, eat forever, they keep assembling more.

I didn't invent infinity. It's a mathematical reality theists have been applying to the definition of God since the Pharaohs discovered that the remainder for Pi never ends. The Egyptians give an accounting of the discovery of infinity as a function of several different calculations. It was considered holy. For no small reason it gave them a lot of confidence in their faith in the idea of being reborn and having an afterlife, simply because they had proven there were things in this universe without end!

Pretty cool eh?


Indeed it is.
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Posted 9/1/12
Because... this is the internet.

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21 / Dreamscape
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Posted 9/1/12

AshRandom wrote:


ZenZaku wrote:
The delusional claims were made by men. Honestly, all the Bible really does is tell you that God exists, to believe in him and not follow the devil. While being nice to everyone around you. That's pretty much it at the core of the book. All this other stuff, like those who shave their temples must be stoned were made by the religious leaders of the time on some idiotic concept of spirituality.

Indeed, God claims are all man made for the purposes of profiteering and social manipulation.

We would have to win two simultaneous infinite lotteries to correctly guess both what is god, and what god wants, and there's no cosmic lady to announce the winning numbers, so even if we did get both right, we could never prove it. And the con artist approach of acting like the spokesman for the universe is fatuous. Like something of infinite power lacks the power to speak for itself and needs some jerk's help to get us to give them all our money, or that thing which is even more valuable: our trust.

What we see around us, every single last piece of it is obeying the rules of physics. It is insane to pretend that these are not the true rules it wanted even if you do want to postulate one as real and tangible.


A bit more than just physics involved, but yes, I do agree that if there is a creator then the laws and theories of science were created by it as well. There is also no way to know if we are in God's good graces or not, so just live a life you aren't ashamed of and don't give a damn about all that religious junk. I've never truly understood how one human can be "holier" than another, especially within the mostly corrupted facets of modern religion.
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Posted 9/1/12
The Bible says what's in itself is true, so it must be. Please ignore the conflict of interest and the complete lack of logic within. Oh wait, that's not the only holy text in existence? They must all be true.
Posted 9/1/12 , edited 9/1/12

daemondjinn wrote:

People lie too much,wether it is to save face or make people feel better.I read some forum stuff,my boots are covered in brown stink from five seconds of reading.Especially in the guys only forum of do guys really care about woman's breast size.Only two people answered honestly. I hate liars and hypocrites.This guy actually dissed his girl for having glands,or that is if his girl is not imaginary.Why do people gotta lie so much?


Lady you have insecurity issues...please dont spread them to us via forum and oh you can't possibly know who's lying or telling the truth unless you can read minds...yea, no you can't so plzzz hush it.
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18 / M / Arkansas
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Posted 9/1/12
Because they can? If you know who is lying just don't listen to them, but how do you even know if they are lying or not.
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52 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 9/1/12
Lying that such a pain in the butt it takes to much effort to do that. Most of the lyres I have met have many other problems like drugs
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EXO Planet
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Posted 9/2/12
It's the internet. What did you expect? A wonderful land where everyone tells the truth and is fruity and stuff?
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26 / F / irst
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Posted 9/2/12
Why does it matter? I thought the Internet was for having fun.

The not-fun parts start when people begin to take it too seriously. (Like some of the people above me on this page *cough*)
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F
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Posted 9/2/12
A make believe do come true.

I wouldn't call it "Lying" but I think it's a joke.
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Posted 9/2/12 , edited 9/2/12

DesidusRyke wrote:


LOL well you just defined the well known "evils" of Christians but fail to look at evils created by free thinkers. Lets just take the Nazi's though germany IS largely christian. Hitler however is not a follower and his ideals are what lead to the Nazi way. Now if you look at your list and compare them with the things involved in that war you won't see many that don't line up to be as bad or worse. Bad disgusting people are out there no matter religion or no. I am not defending those people I just think its silly that one would think that its going to dissapear because of a different belief system is in place.

As for atheists lacking collective motivation that is not correct either. I am not saying that atheist will do wrong to protect atheism, but they will for what they believe in. Morals, ideals, politics... pretty much the same things that motivate the religious. Mob mentality will always be a part of humans which means that it is always possible for the above stuff you posted or new and just as aweful things to occur.

But whatever you obviously have rose colored glasses where atheism is concerned and honestly I think atheism has hope as long as long as there is a value/moral basing to guide it, but as of now there isn't. Anyways this is my last post on the subject, thanks for the discussion on it. :D

Disgusting apologetics. That is one of the most well known lies of the 20th century. Atheists do not = fundamentalists. Moral relativism leads people to thinking things through, not blinding accepting orders, or giving in to mob rule.

Nazi Germany, one of the most fervently Christian countries in Europe are an example of what atheists would do? No. Nobody did any of that in the name of atheism, or with any awareness of the term. Regardless of Hitler's beliefs, he was able to use the Jews as a social scapegoat entirely because of the religious motivations which endless years of bigoted pulpit preaching "passion plays" and christian intolerance, dictated by the Christian doctrine were already widely accepted by the bigoted German public. If the Germans weren't such strong Catholics, they wouldn't have supported the message.

You can replace the word Nazis, or European Axis Powers with RIGHT WING CHRISTIANS in any book written about WWII and you won't have to modify a single sentence. All German soldiers had "God with Us" on their belt buckles. The Vatican Church happily gave them its blessing in writing in the documents signed by the Pope before they had even taken Europe. And again after they had killed half of Europe.

Don't pretend atheists killed anyone when not even 2% of the population were non-believers. And they were rounded up and killed along with the Gypsies and Jews.

To outright falsify your claim: to this very day the most secular countries in the world still have the lowest crime rates. As for what atheists will do when in charge, it isn't mob rule, you're so wrong, if you had a better grasp of the facts, I'd accuse you of lying. Atheists aren't motivated to do horribly stupid things as prescribed by dogmatic scripture and you have utterly failed to prove otherwise. Free thinkers wrote the greatest constitution in history, fully detailing the rights of man. A Constitution which became a model for the entire free world.

As for your other suggestion. It actually does take religion to get good people to do horrible things. Only with the blind faith of religion can they do evil while thinking it to be good.
Posted 9/2/12 , edited 9/2/12

daemondjinn wrote:

People lie too much,wether it is to save face or make people feel better.I read some forum stuff,my boots are covered in brown stink from five seconds of reading.Especially in the guys only forum of do guys really care about woman's breast size.Only two people answered honestly. I hate liars and hypocrites.This guy actually dissed his girl for having glands,or that is if his girl is not imaginary.Why do people gotta lie so much?


and how are you 100% sure they're lying.
I dislike people who believe their own opinion is
the gospel truth.

Dont be quick to judge.
Even so why does their personal actions bother you personally, seems like you got
a lot of time of your hands. Btw If this is the kind of thing that annoys you
then you need to get off the computer instead of creating whine threads.
maffoo 
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33 / M / England
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Posted 9/2/12

AshRandom wrote:


evenstar95 wrote:

Add a "and Jesus loves you" to the end of that monologue and you could sound just like a preacher.


We must employ the best tactics of our enemies.


(I'm probably going to regret this, but here goes...)

Have you ever considered that this is not the "best tactic"? You're coming across as the atheist equivalent of a "hellfire and damnation" fundamentalist preacher. IMO this approach is a good way to keep existing believers (or non-believers, in your case) on-side, but not to encourage people to reconsider their beliefs.

Speaking for myself, if I read a well thought out post which steers clear of rhetoric and insults, I'm more likely to take on board what it says, and even if I don't agree with the poster at the end I might find that my views have changed a little bit. If, on the other hand, I read a rant on the evils of such-and-such a belief (religious or otherwise) I find that it puts me off, and actually hardens my stance. People tend to react badly to being insulted and told that they're stupid and deluded.

I actually read an interview in a magazine (I think it was New Scientist) a couple of years ago, where the interviewee was an atheist scientist. In the interview he said that he'd had some success getting Creationists to change their views, not by attacking them and laughing at them, but by talking to them as human beings, which sums up the point I'm trying to make.
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