First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
Religion is Conjecture - The Ultimate Truth
kvi 
59725 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / Planet Mars
Offline
Posted 6/18/12
Does this thread even have an aim? How about defining exactly what a higher power is. Feel free to break it down into little words.
13761 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / Somewhere.... per...
Offline
Posted 6/29/12

maffoo wrote:


shuyi000 wrote:

I find it hard to believe in a higher power...
... In the case of Christianity, it is pretty clear that most of the stories that the bible is pretty inconsistent with observation.



I was watching a TV debate some time ago which included a bit about the Bible, and one of the panel was a scholar who had studied the Bible for years. She basically said that the trick to reading it was to separate out the historical parts from the allegory.

This pretty much fits in with my view that the problem with certain branches of Christianity is that they take everything literally, blindly following it without thinking about what they are reading. Presumably the same would apply to fundamentalists of other religions as well.


Presuming that you only cherry pick what you like about Christianity, then IMO that isn't really Christianity anymore.
It is merely modern thinking infused with a bit of Christianity because you want to have something/ someone to "look after" you as it is a comforting thought.
13761 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / Somewhere.... per...
Offline
Posted 6/29/12

kvi wrote:

Does this thread even have an aim? How about defining exactly what a higher power is. Feel free to break it down into little words.


A higher power is merely a being that with power beyond our limits.
Be it technologically or magically...
maffoo 
78814 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M / England
Online
Posted 6/29/12

shuyi000 wrote:


maffoo wrote:


shuyi000 wrote:

I find it hard to believe in a higher power...
... In the case of Christianity, it is pretty clear that most of the stories that the bible is pretty inconsistent with observation.



I was watching a TV debate some time ago which included a bit about the Bible, and one of the panel was a scholar who had studied the Bible for years. She basically said that the trick to reading it was to separate out the historical parts from the allegory.

This pretty much fits in with my view that the problem with certain branches of Christianity is that they take everything literally, blindly following it without thinking about what they are reading. Presumably the same would apply to fundamentalists of other religions as well.


Presuming that you only cherry pick what you like about Christianity, then IMO that isn't really Christianity anymore.
It is merely modern thinking infused with a bit of Christianity because you want to have something/ someone to "look after" you as it is a comforting thought.


But then, isn't Christianity really about following the teachings of Christ? If so, then you can be a Christian without taking every bit of the Bible literally. In fact, if you take the Bible literally rather than as at least partly allegorical it's inconsistent with itself, let alone real-world observations.

I don't follow any religions as such, and I think of religious texts as offering guidance to the people they were written for, rather than being history books. The Old Testament, for example, I see as being written for desert-dwelling tribes, so even the bits that can be taken literally should be taken in that context, and not applied directly to people in, say, England.

As an aside, I have also come across atheists who consider themselves to be Christian, because they agree with the philosophy and teachings of Jesus as a human being, rather than the son of God. What "Christianity" is depends on who you ask.
13761 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / Somewhere.... per...
Offline
Posted 6/30/12

maffoo wrote:


shuyi000 wrote:


maffoo wrote:


shuyi000 wrote:

I find it hard to believe in a higher power...
... In the case of Christianity, it is pretty clear that most of the stories that the bible is pretty inconsistent with observation.



I was watching a TV debate some time ago which included a bit about the Bible, and one of the panel was a scholar who had studied the Bible for years. She basically said that the trick to reading it was to separate out the historical parts from the allegory.

This pretty much fits in with my view that the problem with certain branches of Christianity is that they take everything literally, blindly following it without thinking about what they are reading. Presumably the same would apply to fundamentalists of other religions as well.


Presuming that you only cherry pick what you like about Christianity, then IMO that isn't really Christianity anymore.
It is merely modern thinking infused with a bit of Christianity because you want to have something/ someone to "look after" you as it is a comforting thought.


But then, isn't Christianity really about following the teachings of Christ? If so, then you can be a Christian without taking every bit of the Bible literally. In fact, if you take the Bible literally rather than as at least partly allegorical it's inconsistent with itself, let alone real-world observations.

I don't follow any religions as such, and I think of religious texts as offering guidance to the people they were written for, rather than being history books. The Old Testament, for example, I see as being written for desert-dwelling tribes, so even the bits that can be taken literally should be taken in that context, and not applied directly to people in, say, England.

As an aside, I have also come across atheists who consider themselves to be Christian, because they agree with the philosophy and teachings of Jesus as a human being, rather than the son of God. What "Christianity" is depends on who you ask.

Jesus clearly states that everything in the old testament still stands.

39137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / San Francisco Bay...
Offline
Posted 6/30/12 , edited 6/30/12
Of course it's conjecture. I'd imaigne most people who are both religious and intellectual (or at least intelligent) are damn aware that at the core, religion is unprovable. But to say it's false becuse it's unprovable is fallacious, specifically, appeal to ignorance. There are people who find fulfillment in religion: spiritual fulfillment. The type of fulfillment fancy metrics and numbers and equations can't express. And these people find that, for them, religion is a powerful "truth." Not truth as in fact, but truth as in something worth living for.

And by the end of the day, if you're religious, all that really matters is whether or not what you believe is is what you believe to be truth. There's not going to be anyway to know for sure, and therefore, it comes down to faith either way.


Also, for the record, I'm ignostic, so I really don't care about religion personally.
17037 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / Currently on Earth
Offline
Posted 7/2/12
I simply don't believe that there is a god and this is coming from someone, who is defined having a god like complex. Basically down to the fact, because what I have... But in reality, that in itself is a load of gibberish in regards to the god like complex part.
26 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / New York, NY
Offline
Posted 7/2/12
Truth is subjective. Science has come to the conclusion that we will never know all there is to know and our chances of becoming extinct are way higher than us making out this tiny solar system. In addition ALL of our major recent advances are due to our propensity for war.

One recurring theme I have studied in all religions is love and respect for your fellow beings and the environment upon which all life depends. Due to our propensity to disregard love and respect ,it makes life difficult for us all.

If you study science and religion you will see that it is the same coin, with one connecting us to the divine past. Our advances are divine gifts.

One very important fact to mention is that European expansion( the last 700 years) bought incredible death and suffering to the world. Rome fell and Europeans fell into a dark age, well ...........just so you know the rest of the world was fine dude. Do you think we truly recently discovered that the materials of the Earth and our bodies were created by stars????? The data was in religious text thousands and thousands of years before.

As when the Europeans saw Edo they remarked they have never seen such a clean city.

From the Crusades to the current battles in the Middle East. The worst part about that is that much of the science you speak of is stolen from the cultures that originally birthed them and twisted into ways they were not meant to be used. They also have been disassociated from the religions from which they came.

Religions birthed the sciences. For example just look up the contributions Islam has made to the sciences!!!!!!! The Washington Monument is an obelisk (The obelisk symbolized the sun god Ra, and during the brief religious reformation of Akhenaten was said to be a petrified ray of the Aten, the sundisk. It was also thought that the God existed within the structure.), the Freemasons believe in the supreme architect.

Anyone TRULY educated in the sciences should be in so much damn awe of the things around them that they should have no doubt that there is something far beyond our tiny capabilities.

You sir speak blasphemy. May God bless us all.
26 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / New York, NY
Offline
Posted 7/2/12
Oh one more thing. The expansion of Europeans was foretold in the religious text.

Now lets start compiling the data we have gained from our new understanding of the Human Genome and put the Bible/Quran/Torah right next to it.

Traditionally, Japheth has been believed by some to be the progenitor of the peoples of Europe. Thus "Japhetic" came to be used as a synonym for Europeans,

"Japheth is often regarded as the youngest son, though some traditions regard him as the eldest."

Genesis 9:27 "God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant."

Peace and Love....Open your eyes.
Posted 7/3/12 , edited 7/3/12

cramey1985 wrote:

Truth is subjective. Science has come to the conclusion that we will never know all there is to know and our chances of becoming extinct are way higher than us making out this tiny solar system. In addition ALL of our major recent advances are due to our propensity for war.

One recurring theme I have studied in all religions is love and respect for your fellow beings and the environment upon which all life depends. Due to our propensity to disregard love and respect ,it makes life difficult for us all.

If you study science and religion you will see that it is the same coin, with one connecting us to the divine past. Our advances are divine gifts.

One very important fact to mention is that European expansion( the last 700 years) bought incredible death and suffering to the world. Rome fell and Europeans fell into a dark age, well ...........just so you know the rest of the world was fine dude. Do you think we truly recently discovered that the materials of the Earth and our bodies were created by stars????? The data was in religious text thousands and thousands of years before.

As when the Europeans saw Edo they remarked they have never seen such a clean city.

From the Crusades to the current battles in the Middle East. The worst part about that is that much of the science you speak of is stolen from the cultures that originally birthed them and twisted into ways they were not meant to be used. They also have been disassociated from the religions from which they came.

Religions birthed the sciences. For example just look up the contributions Islam has made to the sciences!!!!!!! The Washington Monument is an obelisk (The obelisk symbolized the sun god Ra, and during the brief religious reformation of Akhenaten was said to be a petrified ray of the Aten, the sundisk. It was also thought that the God existed within the structure.), the Freemasons believe in the supreme architect.

Anyone TRULY educated in the sciences should be in so much damn awe of the things around them that they should have no doubt that there is something far beyond our tiny capabilities.

You sir speak blasphemy. May God bless us all.

cramey1985 wrote:

Oh one more thing. The expansion of Europeans was foretold in the religious text.

Now lets start compiling the data we have gained from our new understanding of the Human Genome and put the Bible/Quran/Torah right next to it.

Traditionally, Japheth has been believed by some to be the progenitor of the peoples of Europe. Thus "Japhetic" came to be used as a synonym for Europeans,

"Japheth is often regarded as the youngest son, though some traditions regard him as the eldest."

Genesis 9:27 "God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant."

Peace and Love....Open your eyes.
Courage without humility becomes arrogance, that's the imbalance through your own desperation had created within your spirit. We had caused far more destruction with our unproven sense of self-righteousness, in the form of holy wars as a process of dominance and conquest through organized violence know as monotheistic religion.
26 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / New York, NY
Offline
Posted 7/3/12
Ultimately, the true message of any formal school of thought is to love others and respect your time here in this existence. Religion cannot be blamed for war.These simple messages carry the divine forms of knowledge. However for the sake of extending the discussion, i present my thoughts.

I see that violence and peace are two sides of a coin. In the story of an axe murderer , do you blame the ax?

World War 2 was an incredible war stepped in many religious ideologies. However you simply cannot deny the new world that was created after the destruction. To the Japanese it certainly looked like God had come out the sky when we dropped those weapons, and to the Koreans God certainly was their liberator when we dropped those weapons. In that single action, we killed and liberated, we did things that were wrong and right. These "Holy wars" are exactly that holy. The jump in knowledge that occurred within humanity because of holy war. The chance for the greatest human compassion and the most terrible atrocities against their fellow man occur in holy war.

Read about Sempo,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiune_Sugihara, or Hans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Massaquoi.

Human beings were already told from the beginning that we would all suffer and so we all do. I certainly believe that humans used to live much longer as there is a disease which does the opposite to you , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progeria. This was all known thousands of years before in the texts of these abrahamic religions.


Posted 7/4/12

cramey1985 wrote:

Ultimately, the true message of any formal school of thought is to love others and respect your time here in this existence. Religion cannot be blamed for war.These simple messages carry the divine forms of knowledge. However for the sake of extending the discussion, i present my thoughts.

I see that violence and peace are two sides of a coin. In the story of an axe murderer , do you blame the ax?

World War 2 was an incredible war stepped in many religious ideologies. However you simply cannot deny the new world that was created after the destruction. To the Japanese it certainly looked like God had come out the sky when we dropped those weapons, and to the Koreans God certainly was their liberator when we dropped those weapons. In that single action, we killed and liberated, we did things that were wrong and right. These "Holy wars" are exactly that holy. The jump in knowledge that occurred within humanity because of holy war. The chance for the greatest human compassion and the most terrible atrocities against their fellow man occur in holy war.

Read about Sempo,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiune_Sugihara, or Hans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Massaquoi.

Human beings were already told from the beginning that we would all suffer and so we all do. I certainly believe that humans used to live much longer as there is a disease which does the opposite to you , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progeria. This was all known thousands of years before in the texts of these abrahamic religions.
You can have kindness and compassion without war, through the path of nonviolence. But organized violence in the name of religion, fascism, nationalism, even idealism, is only the result of a human psychosocial and cultural-psychological condition called terror management. Nothing more and nothing less.

The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness
Terror management theory posits that awareness of mortality engenders a potential for paralyzing terror that is assuaged by cultural worldviews: humanly created beliefs shared by individuals to provide a sense they are valuable members of an enduring and meaningful universe, and hence qualified for immortality. All cultural worldviews are ultimately shared fictions, in the sense that none of them are likely to be literally true, and their existence is generally sustained by social consensus. Consequently, encountering people with different beliefs poses a challenge to cultural worldviews, which is why people are generally quite uncomfortable around, and hostile towards, those who are different.

Additionally, because no symbolic cultural construction can actually overcome the physical reality of death, residual anxiety is unconsciously projected onto others as scapegoats: designated all-encompassing repositories of evil, the eradication of which would make earth as it is in heaven. We then typically respond to people with different beliefs (i.e., scapegoats) by berating them, trying to convert them to our belief system, and/or just killing them and in so doing asserting that “my God is stronger than your God and we’ll kick your ass to prove it.”
Empirical support for a terror management conception of human violence will be provided, and recommendations for ameliorating the pernicious effects of bigotry and intolerance will be considered.
This is the reality of violence, not your delusional status-seeking obsession and self-righteous excuse for your God/superiority complex. If you don't believe me, then try your best at presenting objective evidences that proved otherwise, without yourself resort to "berating" me, "trying to convert" me, or character-assassinating only my person and later you asserting how "my God/belief/ideal/opinion is stronger than yours and I’ll kick your ass to prove it".
26 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / New York, NY
Offline
Posted 7/4/12
"You can have kindness and compassion without war, through the path of nonviolence. But organized violence in the name of religion, fascism, nationalism, even idealism, is only the result of a human psychosocial and cultural-psychological condition called terror management. Nothing more and nothing less."

I agree with you completely here. I only feel as you ignored the fact that the computers we are sitting on are devices created for war and violence later to be used for peaceful purposes, as well as the ICBM's we like to launch with people on them.( Congrats to the Chinese people as well on their successful trip on the tip of a weapons system, they join the ranks of the Americans and the Russians.)

"If you don't believe me, then try your best at presenting objective evidences that proved otherwise, without yourself resort to "berating" me, "trying to convert" me, or character-assassinating only my person and later you asserting how "my God/belief/ideal/opinion is stronger than yours and I’ll kick your ass to prove it".

I am well aware as I descend from people who were targets multiple times of attempted genocide and extermination from ancient times up until now in ALL lands of man, worse part is we left much data for these cultures that they have absorbed.
Even in the land of the Han we suffered, even the Chinese still pay tribute -> http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2004/11/27/2003212815.
The name for Egypt was originally Khemet, which means the land of the blacks, a Mr. Bonaparte decided to stop by and blow off the nose of the sphinx.

The reality of violence is simply destruction. The reality of peace is creation. This is a cycle that I need not prove to you as it is as old as the universe itself.

I dare say though that a complete disregard of ancient texts which obviously describe our earlier interactions with a more powerful being is interesting to say the least. I wonder at what point you start to believe the human history that was written? I am REALLY interested in your response, and I patiently wait for it.
7060 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/5/12 , edited 7/5/12
This is interesting- your philosophy reminds me a lot of a more cyclical view of reality (one more related to Asian philosophies) rather than the dichotomized western views. Instead of good and evil, which are completely separate and distinct, destruction leads to growth.

You make an assertion that I don't really agree with, though. You say that most of our technological advancements in the last century or so have been made on the back of war. That's true, very true. However, technological advancement is not inherently a good thing. A machine gun is more complex than a rifle, but the machine gun has a greater capacity to kill. Technology is merely a tool, and therefore cannot be good nor evil. "In the story of an axe murderer, do you blame the axe?" I would say that technological advancement, in and of itself, is morally neutral. It's all about how we use it.
Ghost Moderator
AHTL 
87723 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / Norway
Online
Posted 9/29/12
Locked because OP has nuked.

Anyone, feel free to recreate this topic as your own.
First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.