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Several goths and supermodels both dress up?
Posted 5/18/12 , edited 5/18/12
How can someone who claims they're trying to be different really call themselves different from the norm when they spend most of their time SHOPPING, PUTTING ON MAKEUP, DOING THINGS WITH THEIR HAIR, GETTING TATTOOS, GETTING PIERCINGS and several other things related to self image? And don't even tell me otherwise because it literally takes hours to do all of those things. Can we talk about what the difference between spirituality and materialism might be? If goths and emos and whoever else are supposedly deeper individuals, why do a majority of them try so hard to look the part just like supermodels do? Because, personally, I view spirituality as devoting yourself to who you are on the inside, and materialism as devoting yourself to everything around you. Thus, it presently only makes sense to me that a very spiritual person would focus less on all of the clothes and makeup (quite possibly would end up looking like a hippie - no makeup, uncombed hair, smell) which are the things that make materialistic people materialistic in the first place - they devote more time to caring so much about their appearance than their inner self. I think the only difference between these two people, for instance:





..is that they have a different dressing style.

Maybe there's more to this than I can see. Maybe I am (unintentionally) being a dick. Please share your opinions.
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Posted 5/18/12
I agree. They shouldn't claim to be unique or different when the follow what is a social norm. Its kinda annoying when you confront them too because they get really annoyed and defensive, almost like arguing with a kid.
Posted 5/18/12
People have different definitions of what "different" and/or "unique" are. To each of their own, however, majority are blinded by their own lives.
Posted 5/18/12 , edited 5/18/12
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Posted 5/18/12 , edited 5/18/12
It's exactly like what you said. Spirituality is in the mind, materialism and looks are not important in the mind of a spiritual person whether or not they tend to enjoy dressing up.

Why can't a materialistic person be spiritual as well? Providing they know material goods are what they are, just material goods, and do not define themselves by appearances only.

However I would say self expression can go by any form and that includes sense of fashion, make up, body art etc. When criticizing someone who does not conform, and expresses their individuality, no matter how unoriginal they seem on the surface you are stifling the freedom of self expression.

It's pretty easy to differentiate the posers from the real deal in my opinion. Also there's a sliding scale to how much "goth" a person incorporates into their lifestyle.
Posted 5/18/12
I'd bang the goth.
Posted 5/18/12 , edited 5/18/12

tortoiseshell wrote:

It's exactly like what you said. Spirituality is in the mind, materialism and looks are not important in the mind of a spiritual person whether or not they tend to enjoy dressing up.

Why can't a materialistic person be spiritual as well? Providing they know material goods are what they are, just material goods, and do not define themselves by appearances only.

However I would say self expression can go by any form and that includes sense of fashion, make up, body art etc. When criticizing someone who does not conform, and expresses their individuality, no matter how unoriginal they seem on the surface you are stifling the freedom of self expression.

It's pretty easy to differentiate the posers from the real deal in my opinion. Also there's a sliding scale to how much "goth" a person incorporates into their lifestyle.


I wholeheartedly agree that a person can be both materialistic and spiritual - to an extent, because they are two completely different things and if you spend half the time being one way, I can imagine you'd only be able to spend half of the time being the other. But, yes, if someone is out doing things that are almost always related to materialism, I have to doubt that person isn't, more often than not, focused on their outer appearance. To the guy above, the goth is fucking hot.

I shouldn't have said that they weren't different. What I should have continued to say is that they probably aren't different in the way they may think they are - much more deeply spiritual - because they put just as much if not more care into the way they look than the most glamorized supermodel. And even me saying a person can't be spiritual while being materialistic is merely a hypothesis of mine.
Posted 5/18/12

aprilisagoner wrote:


I wholeheartedly agree that a person can be both materialistic and spiritual - to an extent, because they are two completely different things and if you spend half the time being one way, I can imagine you'd only be able to spend half of the time being the other. But, yes, if someone is out doing things that are almost always related to materialism, I have to doubt that person isn't, more often than not, focused on their outer appearance. To the guy above, the goth is fucking hot.

I shouldn't have said that they weren't different. What I should have continued to say is that they probably aren't different in the way they may think they are - much more deeply spiritual - because they put just as much if not more care into the way they look than the most glamorized supermodel. And even me saying a person can't be spiritual while being materialistic is merely a hypothesis of mine.


There is no spirituality without materialism. Ah, this is the point I meant to say: A person cannot be spiritual without being the most materialistic person in the world. This trait must be maximum and break that point even more and never stop shooting upward.


A spiritual person is someone who seeks to spread something good to others. The more you are invested in material things the more spiritual you are.

Materialism is the measure of someones goodness.

A spiritual person is not someone who denounces. It's someone who embraces. The more they are engaged with the material world equals the more measure a person has. They are the ones helping what they see and hear and feel. They are the ones working to improve and better things including people. It takes perfect greed to deal with people in the most goodly way.

If a spiritual person exists in another realm that is not of us and beyond our world then it is and also beyond them. If they do not even consider conquering what's in front of them I cannot imagine how they can conquer what's beyond their reach.


You do not denounce. You jump into it and spread the infestation of greedy good works. It's all ours for the taking. You build and build and perfect. Spirituality is salacious greed. It's drive and endurance. Who the hell do you think you are and those around you? - Your comfort and theirs - What do you take it for? You work to attain good things and you spread it like a devastating plague.

Spirituality is the essence of humans.
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Posted 5/18/12
They're all the same. By trying to be "different" they're actually conforming to a different standard. Even emos with all their "non-conformist" crap are still conforming to the archetype that is an "emo". If they truly wanted to be different they should as the OP said focus on themselves instead of trying to look the part.
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Posted 5/18/12

aprilisagoner wrote:


tortoiseshell wrote:

It's exactly like what you said. Spirituality is in the mind, materialism and looks are not important in the mind of a spiritual person whether or not they tend to enjoy dressing up.

Why can't a materialistic person be spiritual as well? Providing they know material goods are what they are, just material goods, and do not define themselves by appearances only.

However I would say self expression can go by any form and that includes sense of fashion, make up, body art etc. When criticizing someone who does not conform, and expresses their individuality, no matter how unoriginal they seem on the surface you are stifling the freedom of self expression.

It's pretty easy to differentiate the posers from the real deal in my opinion. Also there's a sliding scale to how much "goth" a person incorporates into their lifestyle.


I wholeheartedly agree that a person can be both materialistic and spiritual - to an extent, because they are two completely different things and if you spend half the time being one way, I can imagine you'd only be able to spend half of the time being the other. But, yes, if someone is out doing things that are almost always related to materialism, I have to doubt that person isn't, more often than not, focused on their outer appearance. To the guy above, the goth is fucking hot.

I shouldn't have said that they weren't different. What I should have continued to say is that they probably aren't different in the way they may think they are - much more deeply spiritual - because they put just as much if not more care into the way they look than the most glamorized supermodel. And even me saying a person can't be spiritual while being materialistic is merely a hypothesis of mine.


I get what you are saying. My point is spiritualism is a way of life. They can be materialistic people who are spiritual, there can be complete slobs who care way too much about appearance and let it affect their opinion of themselves and others... and are most definitely not spiritual... even if they look and smell like a goddamn hippie.

Would you say there is spirituality in art? Fashion is art, make up is an art. Photography is also an art.

You may be right in saying some of these goths just care about looking good, and you may not.

The point is we will never know. We can only guess from the snippets of their personality.

Posted 5/18/12

tortoiseshell wrote:


aprilisagoner wrote:


tortoiseshell wrote:

It's exactly like what you said. Spirituality is in the mind, materialism and looks are not important in the mind of a spiritual person whether or not they tend to enjoy dressing up.

Why can't a materialistic person be spiritual as well? Providing they know material goods are what they are, just material goods, and do not define themselves by appearances only.

However I would say self expression can go by any form and that includes sense of fashion, make up, body art etc. When criticizing someone who does not conform, and expresses their individuality, no matter how unoriginal they seem on the surface you are stifling the freedom of self expression.

It's pretty easy to differentiate the posers from the real deal in my opinion. Also there's a sliding scale to how much "goth" a person incorporates into their lifestyle.


I wholeheartedly agree that a person can be both materialistic and spiritual - to an extent, because they are two completely different things and if you spend half the time being one way, I can imagine you'd only be able to spend half of the time being the other. But, yes, if someone is out doing things that are almost always related to materialism, I have to doubt that person isn't, more often than not, focused on their outer appearance. To the guy above, the goth is fucking hot.

I shouldn't have said that they weren't different. What I should have continued to say is that they probably aren't different in the way they may think they are - much more deeply spiritual - because they put just as much if not more care into the way they look than the most glamorized supermodel. And even me saying a person can't be spiritual while being materialistic is merely a hypothesis of mine.


I get what you are saying. My point is spiritualism is a way of life. They can be materialistic people who are spiritual, there can be complete slobs who care way too much about appearance and let it affect their opinion of themselves and others... and are most definitely not spiritual... even if they look and smell like a goddamn hippie.

Would you say there is spirituality in art? Fashion is art, make up is an art. Photography is also an art.

You may be right in saying some of these goths just care about looking good, and you may not.

The point is we will never know. We can only guess from the snippets of their personality.



Then what do you think would make a materialistic person un-spiritual?

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Posted 5/18/12

AdamIdris101 wrote:


aprilisagoner wrote:


I wholeheartedly agree that a person can be both materialistic and spiritual - to an extent, because they are two completely different things and if you spend half the time being one way, I can imagine you'd only be able to spend half of the time being the other. But, yes, if someone is out doing things that are almost always related to materialism, I have to doubt that person isn't, more often than not, focused on their outer appearance. To the guy above, the goth is fucking hot.

I shouldn't have said that they weren't different. What I should have continued to say is that they probably aren't different in the way they may think they are - much more deeply spiritual - because they put just as much if not more care into the way they look than the most glamorized supermodel. And even me saying a person can't be spiritual while being materialistic is merely a hypothesis of mine.


There is no spirituality without materialism. Ah, this is the point I meant to say: A person cannot be spiritual without being the most materialistic person in the world. This trait must be maximum and break that point even more and never stop shooting upward.


A spiritual person is someone who seeks to spread something good to others. The more you are invested in material things the more spiritual you are.

Materialism is the measure of someones goodness.

A spiritual person is not someone who denounces. It's someone who embraces. The more they are engaged with the material world equals the more measure a person has. They are the ones helping what they see and hear and feel. They are the ones working to improve and better things including people. It takes perfect greed to deal with people in the most goodly way.

If a spiritual person exists in another realm that is not of us and beyond our world then it is and also beyond them. If they do not even consider conquering what's in front of them I cannot imagine how they can conquer what's beyond their reach.


You do not denounce. You jump into it and spread the infestation of greedy good works. It's all ours for the taking. You build and build and perfect. Spirituality is salacious greed. It's drive and endurance. Who the hell do you think you are and those around you? - Your comfort and theirs - What do you take it for? You work to attain good things and you spread it like a devastating plague.

Spirituality is the essence of humans.


Beautiful prose, and I enjoyed reading that. I got your point, oh yes, although it was a little hard to extract it from all that fancy writing.

For the most part, I agree, but I do not believe that materialism is essentially a measure of one's goodness.

You failed to include the people who are blindly materialistic and focus only on appearances and possessions. Their minds are fixated on the material world and the material world only, and they are never satisfied. Such people miss the entire factor of spirituality in their lives. And they do exist.
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Posted 5/18/12

aprilisagoner wrote:




Lmao I actually just answered your question with the post above.
Posted 5/18/12 , edited 5/18/12

tortoiseshell wrote:


aprilisagoner wrote:


You mean to say there may be different types of materialism? Or are those people not being outwardly spiritual?
I do think there is a difference.

Lol you know I like Myers-Briggs, and that's what my hypothesis is circled around. I don't believe being materialistic is ever a bad thing. But if you had an ESTJ, someone all about order and logic and works externally vs. internally, I would call that person materialistic. I don't believe there is such a thing as being too materialistic or spiritual - whatever your personality enables you to be.



Lmao I actually just answered your question with the post above.


Um, my response is in the quote -_-" Sorry. On my Kindle.

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Posted 5/18/12 , edited 5/18/12

aprilisagoner wrote:


tortoiseshell wrote:


aprilisagoner wrote:


You mean to say there may be different types of materialism? Or are those people not being outwardly spiritual?
I do think there is a difference.

Lol you know I like Myers-Briggs, and that's what my hypothesis is circled around. I don't believe being materialistic is ever a bad thing. But if you had an ESTJ, someone all about order and logic and works externally vs. internally, I would call that person materialistic. I don't believe there is such a thing as being too materialistic or spiritual - whatever your personality enables you to be.



Lmao I actually just answered your question with the post above.


Um, my response is in the quote -_-" Sorry. On my Kindle.



Not exactly. I'm saying materialism can be part of spirituality. And materialism and spirituality can be separate, or no.

For example, I think Mirander Kerr, the Victoria's Secret supermodel is very spiritual.

No. I believe spirituality is the essence of all humans, like what Adam said. Don't matter what personality type you conform to. My ESTJ sister is spiritual in her mindset and way of life, and I can tell, even if she never has anything to say on these topics. I do notice Sensing types tend to focus on the material, external world, but I can assure you that a lot of them are spiritual beings even if they do not realize it.

I don't think that being aware of what spirituality is or studying it is necessary for a person to be spiritual.
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