Faith. The Force. Belief.
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35 / M / Newcastle, UK
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Posted 5/21/12
OK, so the Bible reckons that 'Belief can move a mountain' (Forgive the paraphrasing, someone more religious please advise the accurate phrase, I can't be bothered to research), almost every spiritualist in the world will tell you that 'believers can see', and how many religions have the idiom 'if you have faith then you will be saved'?

So, from what millions of believers are telling us, if we believe strongly enough, and have enough faith in our beliefs, then what we believe is true.

So why the hell believe in a land of clouds, harps and monogamy? Why believe in a new life as a cricket? Why believe in being surrounded by 99 sexually inept women?

I wanna believe in a free bar, a decent juke box, a few dark corners for consenting adults and an everlasting anime on the tv in the corner that doesn't do fillers....

Who's with me?! If enough of us believe then it should bloody well happen yeah?!

Any addendums to the bar of the afterlife folks?

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Posted 5/22/12
I don't think most of the members of the religions you're alluding to actually believe that believing something strongly enough alters or creates the very nature of reality. You're looking at things the wrong way, and, by the way, both taking that text out of context and missing the meaning completely. The idea of a faith that "moves mountains" is not meant to be taken literally, and the idea is not that a strong enough faith would change reality if it happened that God or any of the components of Christianity were not real, but that with strong enough faith in the God that exists whether we acknowledge His existence or not, that anything is possible.
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Posted 5/22/12 , edited 5/22/12
The verse you're alluding to is Matthew chapter 17:20:

He said to them, “Because of your little faith. Amen, I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

More important in answer to your thread, why would choosing to believe some carnal fantasy that has no connection to anyone's actual beliefs be preferable to believing the tenets of a particular faith? I don't believe in heaven because such a thing would be nice and convenient or because it has cool stuff in it. Buddhists, Hindus, my fellow Catholics, Muslims, et cetera don't believe in reincarnation, one God, many Gods, heaven, Nirvana, or whatever because the state of the afterlife of that belief system is the greatest carnally pleasurable fantasy.
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Posted 5/22/12
Could Mohammad move a mountain, or was that just PR?

The problem with religion is that a lot of people take it too literally. The simple fact is that you cannot take the entire Bible to be fact. It's impossible. There are some things in the Bible that are absolutely true, and there are also things in there that are nothing but fantasy. See, people seem to act like God wrote the Bible. Man wrote the Bible, and as we all know, Man tends to fuck things up. ALOT

Not to mention that the Bible we currently know is the original translation anyway. The most well known and often quoted version of the Bible is the King James. King James VI of Scotland instructed the translators for that version of the Bible. you don't consider it remotely possible that he snuck a few changes in there where he saw fit?

The real way one should take the Bible is for the lessons it offers to try to help you be a better person, and not as a historical document concerning the creation of the world.
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Posted 5/22/12

MarshallDTeach wrote:

Could Mohammad move a mountain, or was that just PR?

The problem with religion is that a lot of people take it too literally. The simple fact is that you cannot take the entire Bible to be fact. It's impossible. There are some things in the Bible that are absolutely true, and there are also things in there that are nothing but fantasy. See, people seem to act like God wrote the Bible. Man wrote the Bible, and as we all know, Man tends to fuck things up. ALOT

Not to mention that the Bible we currently know is the original translation anyway. The most well known and often quoted version of the Bible is the King James. King James VI of Scotland instructed the translators for that version of the Bible. you don't consider it remotely possible that he snuck a few changes in there where he saw fit?

The real way one should take the Bible is for the lessons it offers to try to help you be a better person, and not as a historical document concerning the creation of the world.


I'm not defending the King James Bible, nor am I defending biblical literalism, but you're wrong. It's well known and well documented that the various transcripts of the Bible throughout the centuries are consistent with one another. The situation is not like the telephone game, where someone, whether they be a scribe or King James, can just change whatever they like, because we have biblical documents that go back centuries that would contradict any changes. If I recall (and it would perfect sense) we have more biblical transcripts than any other group of historical documents.
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Posted 5/22/12

i_love_u_jesus wrote:


MarshallDTeach wrote:

Could Mohammad move a mountain, or was that just PR?

The problem with religion is that a lot of people take it too literally. The simple fact is that you cannot take the entire Bible to be fact. It's impossible. There are some things in the Bible that are absolutely true, and there are also things in there that are nothing but fantasy. See, people seem to act like God wrote the Bible. Man wrote the Bible, and as we all know, Man tends to fuck things up. ALOT

Not to mention that the Bible we currently know is the original translation anyway. The most well known and often quoted version of the Bible is the King James. King James VI of Scotland instructed the translators for that version of the Bible. you don't consider it remotely possible that he snuck a few changes in there where he saw fit?

The real way one should take the Bible is for the lessons it offers to try to help you be a better person, and not as a historical document concerning the creation of the world.


I'm not defending the King James Bible, nor am I defending biblical literalism, but you're wrong. It's well known and well documented that the various transcripts of the Bible throughout the centuries are consistent with one another. The situation is not like the telephone game, where someone, whether they be a scribe or King James, can just change whatever they like, because we have biblical documents that go back centuries that would contradict any changes. If I recall (and it would perfect sense) we have more biblical transcripts than any other group of historical documents.


Yeah, and what if older copies were destroyed? and there are contradictions between the King James Bible and earlier texts.

Everyone has an agenda, dude, and believe you me, religion is by far the most popular choice as a tool used for exploitation. You may not like it, and it definitely isn't right, but it is done...constantly.
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Posted 5/22/12

MarshallDTeach wrote:


i_love_u_jesus wrote:


MarshallDTeach wrote:

Could Mohammad move a mountain, or was that just PR?

The problem with religion is that a lot of people take it too literally. The simple fact is that you cannot take the entire Bible to be fact. It's impossible. There are some things in the Bible that are absolutely true, and there are also things in there that are nothing but fantasy. See, people seem to act like God wrote the Bible. Man wrote the Bible, and as we all know, Man tends to fuck things up. ALOT

Not to mention that the Bible we currently know is the original translation anyway. The most well known and often quoted version of the Bible is the King James. King James VI of Scotland instructed the translators for that version of the Bible. you don't consider it remotely possible that he snuck a few changes in there where he saw fit?

The real way one should take the Bible is for the lessons it offers to try to help you be a better person, and not as a historical document concerning the creation of the world.


I'm not defending the King James Bible, nor am I defending biblical literalism, but you're wrong. It's well known and well documented that the various transcripts of the Bible throughout the centuries are consistent with one another. The situation is not like the telephone game, where someone, whether they be a scribe or King James, can just change whatever they like, because we have biblical documents that go back centuries that would contradict any changes. If I recall (and it would perfect sense) we have more biblical transcripts than any other group of historical documents.


Yeah, and what if older copies were destroyed? and there are contradictions between the King James Bible and earlier texts.

Everyone has an agenda, dude, and believe you me, religion is by far the most popular choice as a tool used for exploitation. You may not like it, and it definitely isn't right, but it is done...constantly.


No, we have plenty of the older manuscripts, haven't you ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? I've actually read the King James Version in its entirety, and it only differs from more legitimate and current translations significantly in a few places, one example being the additional petition to the "Our Father" due to scribal error.
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Posted 5/25/12
There are some things in the Bible that are absolutely true, and there are also things in there that are nothing but fantasy. See, people seem to act like God wrote the Bible. Man wrote the Bible, and as we all know,
Posted 5/27/12 , edited 5/27/12
No, effort moves a mountain, with a great deal of equipment.

And don't you mean the bar at the end of the world?
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Posted 6/4/12

kapulya wrote:

I wanna believe in a free bar, a decent juke box, a few dark corners for consenting adults and an everlasting anime on the tv in the corner that doesn't do fillers....

Who's with me?! If enough of us believe then it should bloody well happen yeah?!

Any addendums to the bar of the afterlife folks?



I'd add a decent pool table, assorted pinball & (retro) video games to the Eternity Bar............
ahhh, mojito eternity, oops! there goes my reflexes for gaming-

Would I have to stay @ this bar for eternity? or might there be a tropical beach resort just outside, or say an an amusement park out back?
Posted 6/5/12 , edited 6/5/12
Do you think that generating an intensely positive feeling within your brain and body caused by faith has an influence on things around you?

Maybe I am mistaken?

By this way of thinking, you can focus a beam of positive energy that with have an effect on physical reality. Is this God working through you on behalf of your will?

Are you capable, if of strong enough faith, of stopping an airplane from crashing into the Earth? Does it take a team effort of faithful, super positive people to overt a disaster? Can you bend a spoon with your faith?

These are questions of a sincere nature.
Posted 6/5/12

Fear-and-Hope wrote:

Do you think that generating an intensely positive feeling within your brain and body caused by faith has an influence on things around you?

Maybe I am mistaken?

By this way of thinking, you can focus a beam of positive energy that with have an effect on physical reality. Is this God working through you on behalf of your will?

Are you capable, if of strong enough faith, of stopping an airplane from crashing into the Earth? Does it take a team effort of faithful, super positive people to overt a disaster? Can you bend a spoon with your faith?

These are questions of a sincere nature.
No, that sorta wishful-thinking will only make ourselves blind from reality. A sort of extreme optimistic worldview that won't actually help solve anything, if you ask me.

Furthermore, that sorta mentality can easily slip into narcissistic behaviors. And with it comes hubris, an hollow-out love for power as opposed to the power of love through vulnerability: virtue.

Case in point, this was from my last PM session with an user called sinistral75, from the online dating site OKCupid. She referred to herself to be "quite a catch", who's "got her shit together" working as a beautician.

In the end, insincerity had become the nature of this aesthetic beauty of the materials with our mainstream culture. While expert theologists the likes of St. Thomas Aquinas suggest that we can only interpret all religious holy texts and prophecies as psychohistory.
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25 / M / California
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Posted 6/6/12 , edited 6/6/12
Being positive affects you, which in turn affects your outlook, which may in turn make it SEEM as though you are affecting your environment with your optimism, but this is not the case. You cannot alter reality with your thoughts, only your own perception of what may or may not be real, your own perception of reality. There are even some schools of thought that believe we DO NOT EVER EXPERIENCE REALITY DIRECTLY because we are only aware of the information relayed to us by our 6 senses.

Of course, people will get along better with optimistic people because your mannerisms make you more easily approachable and more comfortable to interact with, but that's not really your mental state altering reality. It is your mindset altering your behavior, which in turn is experienced by others.

It isn't wrong to say that being optimistic might produce more positives in your life, but relying only on optimism won't get you anywhere.

Back on topic....I don't know if there is an afterlife. Maybe we all rot away and just don't ever experience any sort of sensory input ever again. Or perhaps there is an afterlife the way religions imagine it. Or perhaps there is an afterlife that is nothing like how anybody imagined it. Hard to say.
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