Mahjong help
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28 / M / San Antonio
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Posted 6/22/12
Can anyone look at the attached screenshot and tell me why I could not call Tsumo?

I have been learning mahjong for the past few days, so I apologize if it is something very obvious. Does it have to do with me calling Pon? When I press on the 6 Kan, the game said that I needed to wait for the 6 Kan to go Ron or Tsumo, but I have the 6 Kan, which is why I am confused. Why won't it let me go Tsumo when I already have a complete hand?

Thanks,
-Chris

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Posted 6/22/12
There are several different types of tsumo's, I cannot remember them all as i have not played this in about a year. There are a few things to consider such as getting a run (1,2,3,4....) and matching. I think for your hand you have 2 sets of runs and some matching ones which i dont think you can have since you are not using the one kind of symbols (such as bamboo) . There are certain types of hands that you can win with, i would search online for these as it is the best way to make sure you are able to win!
I hope i helped a bit, very rusty and cannot remember a lot but I was pretty good last year but at the start I was like that as well.
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28 / M / San Antonio
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Posted 6/22/12
The thing is the game had me as Tenpai and said I needed to wait for 6 Kan to win. I got a 6 Kan through a self draw (Far right tile) so I thought I could call Tsumo.

I ended up discarding the 8 Kan and keeping the 6 Kan. The game then changed my waiting tile to the 8 Kan. One or two turns later one of the other players discarded an 8 Kan and I was able to call Ron.
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Posted 6/22/12 , edited 6/22/12
There has got to be something I am missing, or maybe the game is bugged, but it happened again. I ended up winning because I was tenpai and the other 3 players were noten. (Spelling?)

Maybe you can't tsumo after doing a chi or pon? I've only been able to win with a hand after doing chi or pon by winning with a Ron.





EDIT: Came a cross this thread that may explain why I can't tsumo. http://dagobah.net/flash/mahjong_e.swf/comments
Posted 6/23/12
Well, not all mahjong games are programmed under the same rules so finding out why may not be so clear.

In the first picture, it may have to do with the fact that the last tile you discarded was the same suit as the one you just drew. Either that, or it may be because you didn't have an entirely concealed hand. Or did you pass up the winning tile on a previous turn and didn't realize it? I haven't worked my way backwards on that picture though.

In the second picture, it's probably because you don't have at least one yaku.
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Posted 6/24/12 , edited 6/24/12

spermaceti wrote:

Well, not all mahjong games are programmed under the same rules so finding out why may not be so clear.

In the first picture, it may have to do with the fact that the last tile you discarded was the same suit as the one you just drew. Either that, or it may be because you didn't have an entirely concealed hand. Or did you pass up the winning tile on a previous turn and didn't realize it? I haven't worked my way backwards on that picture though.

In the second picture, it's probably because you don't have at least one yaku.


That must be it, thanks. Neither hand has a yaku that I can see. The game I am playing is an iPad app called Janryumon and it is programmed for Japanese Mahjong (The same style used in Saki). It even has cute anime girls in the "Lesson" section to teach you mahjong (Although with bad Engrish, lol).

If the pon in my first hand was something other than a 1 (or a 9) I would have had All Simples (1 yaku) and I could have called tsumo, but the pon of 1 Ball messed that up.


It is the same with the second hand as far as I can tell.

The cute anime girls that teach you mahjong did warn that calling Chi, Pon, or Kan could bite you in the butt later as it gets rid of your default yaku (concealed hand), unless of course you call a concealed Kan. I guess that it what they were talking about. Since you lose your concealed yaku, you must make it up by creating another yaku.
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Posted 6/25/12

-Chris311- wrote:

That must be it, thanks. Neither hand has a yaku that I can see. The game I am playing is an iPad app called Janryumon and it is programmed for Japanese Mahjong (The same style used in Saki). It even has cute anime girls in the "Lesson" section to teach you mahjong (Although with bad Engrish, lol).

If the pon in my first hand was something other than a 1 (or a 9) I would have had All Simples (1 yaku) and I could have called tsumo, but the pon of 1 Ball messed that up.


It is the same with the second hand as far as I can tell.

The cute anime girls that teach you mahjong did warn that calling Chi, Pon, or Kan could bite you in the butt later as it gets rid of your default yaku (concealed hand), unless of course you call a concealed Kan. I guess that it what they were talking about. Since you lose your concealed yaku, you must make it up by creating another yaku.


I've been learning Mahjong because of Saki. Too bad I don't have an iPad. Instead, I've been using an online flash game.

Fortunately, I've found an easy to understand set of rules to learn from:
http://www.japanesemahjong.com/

As near as I can tell, you couldn't declare tsumo since your had was open and you only had a "flat hand", worth one han.
http://www.japanesemahjong.com/reachmahjong/hand_values/flat_hand.htm

Think of stealing (or opening your hand) as a 1 han deduction and you see why you can't declare tsumo. You have to have at least a 1 han hand, which you no longer had. In general, you should try not to steal unless that gives you a better valued hand or there isn't a penalty (e.g. Seat Winds).

This is an extremely complicated game that I'm still learning, so I hope I'm not too far off base.
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Posted 6/25/12 , edited 6/25/12

deadpanditto wrote:


-Chris311- wrote:

That must be it, thanks. Neither hand has a yaku that I can see. The game I am playing is an iPad app called Janryumon and it is programmed for Japanese Mahjong (The same style used in Saki). It even has cute anime girls in the "Lesson" section to teach you mahjong (Although with bad Engrish, lol).

If the pon in my first hand was something other than a 1 (or a 9) I would have had All Simples (1 yaku) and I could have called tsumo, but the pon of 1 Ball messed that up.


It is the same with the second hand as far as I can tell.

The cute anime girls that teach you mahjong did warn that calling Chi, Pon, or Kan could bite you in the butt later as it gets rid of your default yaku (concealed hand), unless of course you call a concealed Kan. I guess that it what they were talking about. Since you lose your concealed yaku, you must make it up by creating another yaku.


I've been learning Mahjong because of Saki. Too bad I don't have an iPad. Instead, I've been using an online flash game.

Fortunately, I've found an easy to understand set of rules to learn from:
http://www.japanesemahjong.com/

As near as I can tell, you couldn't declare tsumo since your had was open and you only had a "flat hand", worth one han.
http://www.japanesemahjong.com/reachmahjong/hand_values/flat_hand.htm

Think of stealing (or opening your hand) as a 1 han deduction and you see why you can't declare tsumo. You have to have at least a 1 han hand, which you no longer had. In general, you should try not to steal unless that gives you a better valued hand or there isn't a penalty (e.g. Seat Winds).

This is an extremely complicated game that I'm still learning, so I hope I'm not too far off base. :)

Thanks for the help and the website link.

On android there is an actual Saki themed mahjong game, but it is kind of plain. The only think that makes it Saki theme is that you can choose the player profile picture of you and the computer to be one of the girls from Saki (Including the second season). There is no voices (or any sounds for that matter), and on a phone the tiles are extremely tiny and hard to pick up. The game is better suited for a tablet.

Janryumon is $3, but it has voices, great bgm, and it is completely 3d. There are even 3d hands that draw and move the tiles around. I hope to find something that works just as well for Android that is also easy to use on a 4.3" screen instead of needing a tablet sized screen.

kvi 
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Posted 6/26/12 , edited 6/26/12
I am not an expert on the game, but certain rule types need a certain amount of Fan to go out.
For example a fully concealed hand, all pungs, or a hand with one suit. Certain flushes, (two suits only) will work.
Once you pick a tile of the table to make a triple or a run of 3, you hand becomes unconcealed and the value goes down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Mahjong_yaku
has the fan/han values. 3 fan i think is the standard rules for jp mahjong.
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Posted 7/5/12
You need to have a yaku, you can achieve this by "reaching" or by having certain sets. For the first picture, you opened by 'pon'ning that one of pins, but the sets are random and won't constitute a yaku. You would have won in that first pic if you pon with a non-terminal tile (leaving you with a set that has NO terminal tile, it would get you a yaku).


This is Isshanten (one tile away from waiting) for Tanyao (No ends)

Likewise, for the 2nd picture, you would have won with a "dirty chanta" if that bamboo chi you had was 7,8,9 instead of 6,7,8. You would have a terminal for each set.


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Posted 7/5/12
Ohh lol, you knew that already. I should have scrolled up first before replying.
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