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Anime and Relevancy: The Test Of Time
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Posted 6/24/12 , edited 6/24/12
Westerners seem to only find interest about Action and killing. We like to watch things that require thinking, just look at today's movies and TV shows for example. This is the reason why we always know about Naruto, Bleach, and somewhat One Piece for that matter. Either than that mainly Moe's are the only other thing that really stay mainstream like K-On, Lucky Star and Madoka crap. Th other issue is marketing. Anime like Steins;Gate haven't even received an western release date yet, and still has no streaming except illegal fan subbed versions. Also Angel Beats! remains popular in America.
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Posted 6/24/12

Zangai wrote:

Westerners seem to only find interest about Action and killing. We like to watch things that require thinking, just look at today's movies and TV shows for example. This is the reason why we always know about Naruto, Bleach, and somewhat One Piece for that matter. Either than that mainly Moe's are the only other thing that really stay mainstream like K-On, Lucky Star and Madoka crap. Th other issue is marketing. Anime like Steins;Gate haven't even received an western release date yet, and still has no streaming except illegal fan subbed versions. Also Angel Beats! remains popular in America.


Well Steins;gate was legally streamed right here, just as an aside.

In general though, I don't know if the implied argument (Americans only notice the bad ones!) is really fair. The vast majority of stuff coming out at any time is exactly the kind of thing you're complaining about.

The deepest anime I can think of don't even get quite to the level of something like Catcher in the Rye let alone Lolita.
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Maiden_aya wrote:


I'm sure many will agree on the why does it matter part of your post, but Chrome is literally asking why do some series stand the test of time and others don't from an objective viewpoint. And who knows? Maybe Naruto and Bleach won't stand the test of time, too recent and still ongoing for that to be a current factor.

But I don't think a show needs to be mega popular to be labled relevant. To compare both sides of popularity spectrum, Code Geass and Death Note are two highly recommended animes. They so far have stood the test of time. I was strictly readin g manga when Darker Than Black came out, so I don't know how it was marketed or receive, but I don't see the same type of following, but I'd still say it has equal relevance as those.

Which again for me, is going to boil down to being able to reach multiple demographics. Because as Chrome stated in first post shows that weren't wildly marketed still have present relevance. And Steins;Gate may not be mega popular right now, but I can almost guarantee that YEARS from now it will still be one of the best animes ever.


I see some objectivity but I also see a LOT of speculation. Which leads me to my next point - Relevant to which industry? Sure international sales are pretty damn important to the anime industry as a whole but wouldn't the home land industry still take more importance? Leaving my personal opinions on Death Note aside - is that anime still relevant in Japan? Isn't that what is really important? I think this is a great thread and I have read some great, interesting viewpoints but I am not seeing a lot of hard data. <--- since probably only people working in the industry would know of this (if there even is any data) I don't see a good way to prove any of this.

and also on the DTB front - that kind of proves my point. Darker Than Black was relevant to you and left an impact which is the only real important thing here isn't it?

and which specific demographics are you talking about? You do realize that you listed 3 shounen anime right? Which brings me to another point; people overrate the acceptance and pervasiveness of anime (in the US since that is what I have to go on). Once again I am running into the problem of finding hard data and my geographic location may play a large role in this BUT - honestly when has been the last time you have just overheard a casual conversation about anime? Better yet - when is the last conversation you have heard about anime that hasn't been on American tv? and even a step further - what percentage of people in the US do you suppose has watched (and completed) more than 10 anime? Just based on observation - none of immediate family, my cousins, aunts, or uncles and only a few of my friends that I knew or know now irl watch anime..... with any sort of regularity (got my family to watch Summer Wars and convinced friends to watch anime once or twice) and a quick glance at a social networking site (nunyabuisness which one or the pool I am taking it from)... 4 people watch anime in any sort of regularity. Without going into detail - basically each one has their own selective taste in anime. When it comes to anime, each and every persons tastes seems to be highly selective in what they like so being "relevant" to me just seems to be much more of an individual thing than a broad sweeping understanding of the whole industry. Like I said, this could all be tainted by personal experience but I have read/heard similar stories.
So I am assuming the "small market anime industry in the US" has been proven which brings me here. To deny Bleach and Narutos impact seems impossible. http://www.hulu.com/browse/popular/tv?src=topnav Shippuden is the most popular anime on hulu and one of if not THE most popular anime on CR. Bleach starts off the anime block on Toonami which in my head means they are trying to please their core audience. Regardless of how I feel about either one (there are better anime out there for sure) to say that they are not "relevant" or rather not having an impact on the industry here seems to be like putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and going "LALALALLAA I DON'T HEAR YOU!" XD and as for the test of time http://www.japanpowered.com/articles/top-10-influential-anime-america <-- this doesn't have good data but I think it is good list and if you don't think Voltron had an impact on the American culture http://youtu.be/j1RCplpVaQ0 20 seconds in - Metlife commercial during the Superbowl and if you don't think the Superbowl is big in America ... good luck with life

This points more to your previous point of having "shippable" characters which I don't buy into for a bit. Manga compared to anime here in the US is much smaller and I suspect an even smaller population of that actually "ships" characters. I do think having great, charismatic characters that you relate to and feel for is an important part of anime but the doujinshis I have never even heard of till a few months ago. Again, maybe in Japan it is different but I really wouldn't know outside of the Lucky Star episode on Comiket but my suspicions there is that it is also a limited population.

I think this speaks more to the phenomenon of "wearing blinders" or "getting tunnel vision" when you start immersing yourself in a sub-culture (for the US again). I'm not a psychologist so obviously I don't know the technical name for it but when you start getting SO involved with a sub-culture and interacting online or with a few others IRL about it I think it gets harder and harder to remember that you really are interacting in a limited group which again is what makes CR so cool. You can find other crazy people who have the same interests

So if we are already in a small community here what is the importance of what stands the test of time for other people (outside of availability)? I think I may care about online friends perspectives much more than random people I see on the threads and even then a lot of the times I just have to say "different strokes for different folkes" when I interact with them. It's nice to see peoples perspectives on the matter and their opinions on it but to me it just fills one more piece of the puzzle of their personality. If I start seeing a severe decline in the anime I enjoy then maybe I will be more concerned in the forums but since I have no control or impact on the main industries making anime I just kind of have to sit back and find the treasures each season and then recommend them to others and hope they enjoy. Angel Beats! has been forgotten by a large part of the community? Sucks for them that's a great anime.
Steins;Gate not getting the press like Madoka is? Madoka was a great series so I guess I should go watch Steins;Gate as well since people seem to love it. I see a boxing anime gif on someones profile? Wow I really need to watch that and see if my friends are interested as well. A lot of people who are interested in good anime also like One Piece? I should really go watch the sub of it (since 4kids edited it to all hell + a shitty dub) Then you tell others of similar interests your recommendations and hopefully the trends drive itself. I personally have heard a lot of stuff about Steins;Gate and Angel Beats! quite often even today or at the very least have seen a talk about it in the past week and Angel Beats! left an impact to me ..... not quite like Clannad but it was still a damn good anime The axe scene in the first or second episode (I'm not sure which - excuse me princess) is still a vivid memory. The ending was satisfying so it has re-watch-ability (which is another point of yours I disagreed with - I'd rather not rewatch an anime with a shitty ending and try to move on from there but that's just me and the anime you listed don't have an open-ended interpretation to me *shrugs*) so it is also a good recommendation to others. Can't say I don't get upset when an anime I really really love gets a put down but even then, that anime to me left a lasting impact. Damn that was a lot of typing



I got recommended it by AHTL and so far it works great! it even works on lost GB posts so I would highly recommend it. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/lazarus-form-recovery/
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Posted 6/24/12

funnyginsan wrote:



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Posted 7/5/12



SOOOOO Sorry I took so long to respond. I'm back on CR now :P

I previously said that Chrome's question was why, when instead I should have restated this part
"What does an anime need to make an impact on the anime industry?

How can it remain relevant for years? Or decades?"


funnyginsan
Darker Than Black was relevant to you and left an impact which is the only real important thing here isn't it?


Not really. DTB is something that's still considered relveant in the anime industry. In fact I wouldn't say it impacted other animes more like it it was following a tried and true formula, but it had that extra special something that made it stand apart. Impact me? Hmm it was the first anime I saw in a long time so it'll have that.


funnyginsanYou do realize that you listed 3 shounen anime right?

Darker Than Black is senien
Steins;Gate manga is seinen as for anime...hmm that I can't pinpoint.

funnyginsan
To deny Bleach and Narutos impact seems impossible. http://www.hulu.com/browse/popular/tv?src=topnav Shippuden is the most popular anime on hulu and one of if not THE most popular anime on CR. Bleach starts off the anime block on Toonami which in my head means they are trying to please their core audience. Regardless of how I feel about either one (there are better anime out there for sure) to say that they are not "relevant" or rather not having an impact on the industry here seems to be like putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and going "LALALALLAA I DON'T HEAR YOU!" XD

I'm not dening Bleach and Naruto impact. It's highly likely they will, but they are stilll ONGOING. THAT is what I meant, I didn't say they weren't but we can't say they've stood the test of time...YET. I even said they probably would, you missed my point.


Also I want to say that you took my entire post wrong. I wasn't arguing against your ENTIRE post, JUST the part where you said why does it matter, so I don't know why you take issue with mine, but again, this is all opinion, so you don't have to agree *shrugs*

And to deny the impact fans have on the industry and it's relevance is to deny a huge part of the industry by the way. I may say it in a flightly way. "Oh to ship characters." but really...do you know how big doujinshi is in Japan? It's a BIG deal, and even though it's technically against copywrite action is rarely taken against it. Hundreds of thousands of people attend Doujinshi conventions EACH DAY there is one.

I remember reading in Sailor Moon over 10 years, so when it was wrote at least 20 years ago of Naoko Tekuchi excited that someone had sent her fanfiction. I can't say all, but many companies and artists expect and are aware of this "sub-cutlure".

I use doujinshi so much because this is something FAN made, that is SOLD. That is a big deal in a world where copywriters want every penny. Interesting article I found stated

"The United States had asked Japan to make these changes in its Copyright Law in 2007, but opponents argued that if the changes were made, the culture developed through parody and dōjinshi works would be harmed. Akamatsu further argued that the changes "would destroy derivative dōjinshi" (or dōjinshi based on other creative works). He added, "And as a result, the power of the entire manga industry would also diminish.""
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-10-31/negima-akamatsu-warns-against-changing-japan-copyright-law

You know who Akamastsu is? He created Love Hina and Negima. There are manga artists and different people in the manga industry who are FIGHTING against the new copywrite laws because they KNOW how the fan made market affects the industry. And the most telling from all that? They don't get a profit from it. So why do they care if fan made works get shut down? Because as long as their is fan interest, there is still interest in their works. And actually, what the fans write/draw about is what they want to see, so you can be sure that many creators take note of that. The smart ones as least.



And that ground allows for new creators to immerge. Rumiko Takashi (Ramna 1/2) was only discovered because of being a doujinshi artist. So really fan made works have are a BIG factor in what impacts the industry. And THAT is not my opinion.


And..none of my friends online or in person have same anime/manga tastes. I crave variety, even amongst my friends, so I don't have many people who like the EXACT same stuff as I do. I'm sure it's nice, but I like the moments when me and my very different friends find something we BOTH like. It makes it feel more special to me.

funnyginsan
people overrate the acceptance and pervasiveness of anime (in the US since that is what I have to go on). Once again I am running into the problem of finding hard data and my geographic location may play a large role in this BUT - honestly when has been the last time you have just overheard a casual conversation about anime? Better yet - when is the last conversation you have heard about anime that hasn't been on American tv? and even a step further - what percentage of people in the US do you suppose has watched (and completed) more than 10 anime


Where I live now I would agree with you. But from where I grew up I grew up near a lot of Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Laotians, Hmongs, etc. I don't know if that makes a difference but there is a huge Japanese community in Farmington Hills, Troy, Michigan and surrounding areas. We have a really big anime convention Youmacon every year about 5 minutes from my old house. Every high school I went to (and most of the other ones)had an anime club (well my last one I started it, but it still exists). Many of my friends back home can actually watch anime without subs. Anime, I suppose I could say is not a big deal up there. It's not even uncommon to see people reading manga on the bus all the time. It makes my inner (and sometime outer!) nerd smile every time I see it though. Anime/manga has come a long way here.

And this post is entirely too long. For some reason this is the most interesting topic on CR for me right now. It's one of the rare ones I literally care about. Makes me want to do research and write a paper on it now for fun.
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If we're talking about here in the US, since most of us are not really qualified to speak to what might keep something relevant in Japan, lets address the 800 lb elephant in the room: Whatever show you're talking about needs a widespread release, it needs to get out of the online only, sub only ghetto. Is it really a mystery that anime in general has become less relevant since Cartoon Network has been showing less?

Name a show as big now as Robotech/Macross was when it was shown after school everyday. As purists we may decry the Maceker of the 3 series being jamed together, but if a show is amazing and no one sees it how can it get big? When "Cowboy Bebop" was on regularly, when DBZ was on regularly, when "Gundam Wing" and "Outlaw Star" were on regular, by which I mean 5 days a week sometime before 3am that's when these shows really captured an audience.

People need to see it, not just the hardcore fans, but potential new fans, casual fans. Right now, how would you introduce someone to your favorite show who's not a big anime fan? Tell them to sit hunched over your PC and read sub-titles? Dubbed television releases have their issues, but seriously, ask a non-fan if they've even heard of "Lucky Star", you'll get blank stares. Ask if they know "Sailor Moon" or "Pokemon", and most will at least vaguely know what you're talking about.
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we seem to be running in circles. so here we go:
1st part: Where's the proof DTB is still relevant and to which industry? (USA or Japan)

2nd part: 3 anime aimed at guys or men - same difference to me since it didn't include slice of life, shojou, magical girls ect ect

3rd part: Doujinshi is big .... in JAPAN. So to keep an anime relevant in the US I doubt you would need it. Totally different cultures.

4th part: So you lived in a place with a high Japanese population and anime was more accepted there. Well that is pretty cool but honestly, I think that creates a bias. Unfortunately I can't link you the exact results but if you want to search in Ethnicity on the census site feel free to. http://factfinder2.census.gov about 1 million people in the USA are of Japanese descent in a population of 300 million. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_diaspora <-- there a little clearer cut.
If we took in the ENTIRE Asian population in the USA is around 14million (use the fact finder site but here is one that says 10 million and isn't exactly correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_%28U.S._Census%29#2010_Census ) the 300 million number for the USA population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States -
The whole point of link spam is that, while that is pretty cool that you lived in a culturally diverse area with many Japanese Americans, I doubt it is the common experience in the United States. Judging the sheer range of cultural differences in the entire Asian population, I also wonder if that would be the case for someone descended (or immigrated) from the Philippians or South Korea or China. I know where I lived that had a large Latino population it wasn't the case at all. Which is why I brought up that whole long ass post earlier was to point out "Which industry are you looking at?"

If you are trying to say what makes anime still relevant in Japan, outside of DVD sales, I doubt you could OBJECTIVELY tell me .... unless you are somehow living in Japan and are in the anime industry with access to all that data - then sure hit me with the facts! Hell, even if you were from Japan and living there I would still ask a few questions like "Is that the anime you and your friends are interested in? Is that anime a little more popular in that geographical region than others? Do you think WHEN it is shown is an important factor? What societal roles do you think make an anime popular outside of quality? Is this something you have just deduced or is it based on fact? Do you have access to any data I could look at?" Also, using CR's poll articles on Japan don't really interest me as hardcore provable fact since they are pulling from such a limited data pool. I mean, sure it is interesting to look and I enjoy them, but with millions and millions of people watching anime in Japan you think more would show up to vote than a couple thousand

If you want to talk about what anime are still relevant in the USA then sure, why not. One Piece, Naruto, Bleach and DBZ. These are OBVIOUSLY the only anime that matter here and EVERYONE watches them.
^the problem with the above statement is that
A. God I hope not.
B. I couldn't find any statistical data on this with sales numbers of DVD's so about the only thing I am going on is unreliable indicators. For EX: the number of costumes based on those shows at a Anime convention in the USA.
D. I doubt this is actually true even if everyone knows the names of those animes (from personal experience)

The point being, it's just all pretty sketchy data. The only good one is on Bleach ..... with number bumps on Adult Swim -_- (the bumps that show what the most watched show was on Saturday in case you have no idea what I am talking about) .... and of course I can't even find those numbers using google now. Even then those numbers may not be a reliable indicator because:
A. there are a lot who prefer to watch it subbed only and not dubbed
B. Some people prefer to watch it online and not on TV (like hulu or adultswim)
C. People who watch it on the many many illegal sites


The whole point being, this is almost all speculation and the only important thing is what anime YOU like. I still think this is true even after reading and thinking about this topic for a while now. Yeah, when your friends both like the same anime it is pretty cool but even then you may like it for totally different reasons. You may even disagree on the ending. You may prefer one character over another character in the series. You may think that their definition of "good" anime is rather narrow. You may be able to objectively look at an anime and say it is well written, animated and tells a good story but you personally don't prefer it.

So again, my whole point - since there is no objective way to say what makes an anime "catch on" or even any OBJECTIVE data in the USA on the percentage of people who watch anime (no starting point) then I hold to the idea of "support the anime you like and find a few people to talk about it with since that is the only really important thing here." (Getting my Gintama Blu-Ray movie in the mail soon HELL YEAH!)

I'd love it if there was some data but just type in "Percentage of people who watch anime in the USA" into google or yahoo or even "Percentage watch anime USA" (since people get to be sticklers on how to search) the only site with sales figures that comes up is this one from 2003 http://www.japaninc.com/article.php?articleID=972
and this talks about ADV being the big guy on the anime block (they went out of business and broke into 5 companies)

I do think anime has come a long way in the US but I do wonder exactly how far.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/ratings-anime.php
The most watched anime on peoples list is at 20,233 (FMA)
And the problem with this is
A. There are a lot of sites people can visit to have a list even if ANN is a very popular one (but it's more for news imo)
B. The number of people who actually get wholly involved with anime and bother to make a list there outside of just going on friends recommendations
C. REALLY??? 20k???? CMON! jeez - ya know that has to be wrong! (I think it's a lot higher)
D. Global population of English speakers including Canada (if they speak English instead of French since Canada has two official languages), the UK, and anyone who has English as a second language.
E. I like this "most popular" list better http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=bypopularity and even then the most popular is at 238,905 (Death note) and the problem with this list is *see above* (number of people who would actually visit said site, different sites, English speaking countries or people who learn English)

This answer kind of upset me and then made me laugh
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_Americans_watch_anime

All I am saying is that it would be nice to get a little chart like this for USA anime prevalence http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=191889 even if it was an online survey. (although that pool size seems pretty awesome)

Completely side note coming out of left field - I swear there is a higher percentage of anime watchers in College and in Technical Jobs but there is no way to prove that outside of the number of anime clubs in College compared to High School

Hey, I think it is great to speculate and it can even be pretty stimulating (see the statement above) but eventually that only breaks down to why you personally think anime may "catch on" instead of anything actually based on fact. (again, see the above statement)

I think I am done with this topic and made my point (I hope)
These long ass posts take a lot out of me so I think I will just go watch the anime that I like now.
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funnyginsan wrote:



we seem to be running in circles. so here we go:
1st part: Where's the proof DTB is still relevant and to which industry? (USA or Japan)

2nd part: 3 anime aimed at guys or men - same difference to me since it didn't include slice of life, shojou, magical girls ect ect

3rd part: Doujinshi is big .... in JAPAN. So to keep an anime relevant in the US I doubt you would need it. Totally different cultures.

4th part: So you lived in a place with a high Japanese population and anime was more accepted there. Well that is pretty cool but honestly, I think that creates a bias. Unfortunately I can't link you the exact results but if you want to search in Ethnicity on the census site feel free to. http://factfinder2.census.gov about 1 million people in the USA are of Japanese descent in a population of 300 million. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_diaspora <-- there a little clearer cut.
If we took in the ENTIRE Asian population in the USA is around 14million (use the fact finder site but here is one that says 10 million and isn't exactly correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_%28U.S._Census%29#2010_Census ) the 300 million number for the USA population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States -
The whole point of link spam is that, while that is pretty cool that you lived in a culturally diverse area with many Japanese Americans, I doubt it is the common experience in the United States. Judging the sheer range of cultural differences in the entire Asian population, I also wonder if that would be the case for someone descended (or immigrated) from the Philippians or South Korea or China. I know where I lived that had a large Latino population it wasn't the case at all. Which is why I brought up that whole long ass post earlier was to point out "Which industry are you looking at?"

If you are trying to say what makes anime still relevant in Japan, outside of DVD sales, I doubt you could OBJECTIVELY tell me .... unless you are somehow living in Japan and are in the anime industry with access to all that data - then sure hit me with the facts! Hell, even if you were from Japan and living there I would still ask a few questions like "Is that the anime you and your friends are interested in? Is that anime a little more popular in that geographical region than others? Do you think WHEN it is shown is an important factor? What societal roles do you think make an anime popular outside of quality? Is this something you have just deduced or is it based on fact? Do you have access to any data I could look at?" Also, using CR's poll articles on Japan don't really interest me as hardcore provable fact since they are pulling from such a limited data pool. I mean, sure it is interesting to look and I enjoy them, but with millions and millions of people watching anime in Japan you think more would show up to vote than a couple thousand

If you want to talk about what anime are still relevant in the USA then sure, why not. One Piece, Naruto, Bleach and DBZ. These are OBVIOUSLY the only anime that matter here and EVERYONE watches them.
^the problem with the above statement is that
A. God I hope not.
B. I couldn't find any statistical data on this with sales numbers of DVD's so about the only thing I am going on is unreliable indicators. For EX: the number of costumes based on those shows at a Anime convention in the USA.
D. I doubt this is actually true even if everyone knows the names of those animes (from personal experience)

The point being, it's just all pretty sketchy data. The only good one is on Bleach ..... with number bumps on Adult Swim -_- (the bumps that show what the most watched show was on Saturday in case you have no idea what I am talking about) .... and of course I can't even find those numbers using google now. Even then those numbers may not be a reliable indicator because:
A. there are a lot who prefer to watch it subbed only and not dubbed
B. Some people prefer to watch it online and not on TV (like hulu or adultswim)
C. People who watch it on the many many illegal sites


The whole point being, this is almost all speculation and the only important thing is what anime YOU like. I still think this is true even after reading and thinking about this topic for a while now. Yeah, when your friends both like the same anime it is pretty cool but even then you may like it for totally different reasons. You may even disagree on the ending. You may prefer one character over another character in the series. You may think that their definition of "good" anime is rather narrow. You may be able to objectively look at an anime and say it is well written, animated and tells a good story but you personally don't prefer it.

So again, my whole point - since there is no objective way to say what makes an anime "catch on" or even any OBJECTIVE data in the USA on the percentage of people who watch anime (no starting point) then I hold to the idea of "support the anime you like and find a few people to talk about it with since that is the only really important thing here." (Getting my Gintama Blu-Ray movie in the mail soon HELL YEAH!)

I'd love it if there was some data but just type in "Percentage of people who watch anime in the USA" into google or yahoo or even "Percentage watch anime USA" (since people get to be sticklers on how to search) the only site with sales figures that comes up is this one from 2003 http://www.japaninc.com/article.php?articleID=972
and this talks about ADV being the big guy on the anime block (they went out of business and broke into 5 companies)

I do think anime has come a long way in the US but I do wonder exactly how far.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/ratings-anime.php
The most watched anime on peoples list is at 20,233 (FMA)
And the problem with this is
A. There are a lot of sites people can visit to have a list even if ANN is a very popular one (but it's more for news imo)
B. The number of people who actually get wholly involved with anime and bother to make a list there outside of just going on friends recommendations
C. REALLY??? 20k???? CMON! jeez - ya know that has to be wrong! (I think it's a lot higher)
D. Global population of English speakers including Canada (if they speak English instead of French since Canada has two official languages), the UK, and anyone who has English as a second language.
E. I like this "most popular" list better http://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=bypopularity and even then the most popular is at 238,905 (Death note) and the problem with this list is *see above* (number of people who would actually visit said site, different sites, English speaking countries or people who learn English)

This answer kind of upset me and then made me laugh
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_Americans_watch_anime

All I am saying is that it would be nice to get a little chart like this for USA anime prevalence http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=191889 even if it was an online survey. (although that pool size seems pretty awesome)

Completely side note coming out of left field - I swear there is a higher percentage of anime watchers in College and in Technical Jobs but there is no way to prove that outside of the number of anime clubs in College compared to High School

Hey, I think it is great to speculate and it can even be pretty stimulating (see the statement above) but eventually that only breaks down to why you personally think anime may "catch on" instead of anything actually based on fact. (again, see the above statement)

I think I am done with this topic and made my point (I hope)
These long ass posts take a lot out of me so I think I will just go watch the anime that I like now.


Gin, I get everything you're saying. But some of the things you're saying don't quite have much to do with what I'm saying -_-

Only thing I will concede on is The DTB. There is no concrete proof. Just that on most top ten lists (whatever the list is for) you always see Darker Than Black on there. Maybe not near the top, but still a big fan interest today. But I'm done talking about specific animes, and specific demographics. I just felt a little horror when you lumped shonen in with seinen-seriously. I like both, but when you put it like that you make it sound like there's only two audiences: men and women.

You're still not understanding my points about how the fan base impacts the industry -_-

You keep talking to be about what's "popular" and that's not my point at all. I'm still actually answering the question ""What does an anime need to make an impact on the anime industry?

How can it remain relevant for years? Or decades? "
And one of my answers is why I think doujinshi and fan made works is one of the factors. That's the main thing I'm talking about. Anime is made in Japan, which means that if any impact is made on the industry it'd most likely happen in Japan first. And I'm not really breaking it down US/Japan. Don't see why it makes a different to be honest in relation to the question.

And you're still talking about sales. They are great points and all, seriously, but they have nothing to do with why I think the fan base is what helps an anime make an impact. Doujinshi and fan works profits don't get calculated. So while people are buying these works, we can't actually see the impact with sales.

So I get your point. And agree with some..but not what it has to do with what an anime needs to make an impact. I hope my point makes sense now. I completely understand yours, but you're disagreeing with me on a totally different topic than what I'm talking about.

You think it doesn't make a difference, that all that matters is what you like. I think it's something to contemplate because that way I can get more animes like Steins;Gate.And THAT is why the question is important. An anime today can help inspire to make your future favorite anime tomorrow.
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Posted 7/5/12 , edited 7/5/12

Maiden_aya wrote:

Gin, I get everything you're saying. But some of the things you're saying don't quite have much to do with what I'm saying -_-

Only thing I will concede on is The DTB. There is no concrete proof. Just that on most top ten lists (whatever the list is for) you always see Darker Than Black on there. Maybe not near the top, but still a big fan interest today. But I'm done talking about specific animes, and specific demographics. I just felt a little horror when you lumped shonen in with seinen-seriously. I like both, but when you put it like that you make it sound like there's only two audiences: men and women.

You're still not understanding my points about how the fan base impacts the industry -_-

You keep talking to be about what's "popular" and that's not my point at all. I'm still actually answering the question ""What does an anime need to make an impact on the anime industry?

How can it remain relevant for years? Or decades? "
And one of my answers is why I think doujinshi and fan made works is one of the factors. That's the main thing I'm talking about. Anime is made in Japan, which means that if any impact is made on the industry it'd most likely happen in Japan first. And I'm not really breaking it down US/Japan. Don't see why it makes a different to be honest in relation to the question.

And you're still talking about sales. They are great points and all, seriously, but they have nothing to do with why I think the fan base is what helps an anime make an impact. Doujinshi and fan works profits don't get calculated. So while people are buying these works, we can't actually see the impact with sales.

So I get your point. And agree with some..but not what it has to do with what an anime needs to make an impact. I hope my point makes sense now. I completely understand yours, but you're disagreeing with me on a totally different topic than what I'm talking about.

You think it doesn't make a difference, that all that matters is what you like. I think it's something to contemplate because that way I can get more animes like Steins;Gate.And THAT is why the question is important. An anime today can help inspire to make your future favorite anime tomorrow.

DTB & Steins;Gate
- Both Sci Fi based
- Both characters have a power but I'm not going to clarify this for spoilers sake
- Both deal with conspiracies and shadow organizations
- there is no No horror, magic, slice of life, ecchi ect
so sorry if shonen and seinen is such an important difference here LOL
No, which gender doesn't make that much of a difference so much as the content of both anime. Maybe if One Piece and Steins;Gate were compared or Clannad and Cowboy Bebop I would care more about the specifics.

And you have totally missed mine as well I guess. The question itself is flawed and leads a lot to speculation ... which I will do now. There is a HUGE difference in what makes anime popular in Japan and what makes it popular in the USA and what anime titles get picked up and released on DVD in America I think has a lot more to do with USA fans personally. I don't think it is that fair to say that you know what makes an anime popular in Japan. What I do know is that Cowboy Bebop wasn't big in Japan - it's like one of the most staple animes here in the USA. Samurai Champloo is also big in the USA and I don't know if it is as big in Japan. Those anime are still available on DVD on Amazon RIGHT NOW. To deny a difference between the two doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You really don't think picking up those DVD's and showing them around or just simply recommending anime to other people makes a difference here? I wouldn't have even know Evangelion and Ninja Scroll existed if it weren't for a few eclectic friends in High School. I doubt if I ever would have gotten into anime without Toonami. I don't think it is fair to say anime creators don't pay any attention to overseas sales. I think it is fair to say they pay more attention to local sales though.

I think you are right in that Doujinshi seems to make a large difference over there in Japan from what I have read .... on a fan basis. I would ask what do you think matters more - DVD sales or fan created works? Not on a personal level, but on what anime gets made and released. I wonder if Gintama would have stayed on the air as long as it did without good DVD sales. Japan is a capitalist society. Can you honestly say you know for a fact that Doujinshi are more important than DVD sales and TV ratings? Now do you see my point?

Maybe it makes a better freer environment for good creation of original products that makes it be able to be picked up and made into an anime. I really wouldn't know.




Ok now for what I personally think. The exposure of an anime in the USA relates to it's lasting power. The more people who watch it, talk about it and show it to others makes a large difference whether an anime lasts for decades. Also, HOW it is shown. Netflix, Hulu, DVD, and TV - the more it can hit all of those the better. For what makes an anime last for decades in Japan, I don't know. To a limited extent, I don't really care since I could never influence what goes on over there. They made Kids On The Slope this season and that makes me a happy man. I got it recommended to me by many people and I watched it. I plan on buying the DVD's (if some company picks it up and releases it) and to me, it had an impact. I recommended it to a few people and I hope they enjoyed it. That, to me, does a hell of a lot more over here than someone showing me a yaoi story of SenXKaurou that some person in Japan made.

What does an anime need to make an impact on the anime industry?

How can it remain relevant for years? Or decades? "


I've answered this in tons of different ways. The anime industry in Japan and what gets popular and released here are two different things to me.
So, yes Raya the difference between US anime fans and Japan anime fans and what makes an anime popular over there and what makes it popular over here makes a large difference to me. A HUGE one. If they stop making great anime I have like 30 old series that I could watch and still need to buy many many more. What's popular makes a difference over here. I guess I look at it more in a business sense which I don't think you necessarily like. Fan recommendations, availability in many formats, what gets talked about, what gets shown on TV all of that answers those specific questions for the USA to me. Naruto and Bleach have been around for YEARS over here so, yes it has been relevant for years. (whether you like it or not) The number of fans of a specific anime determine how many other people hear about it over here so it makes an impact. I don't know many people who have even heard of a Doujinshi or read it over here and sales of them here, I assume, are negligible. Thus the whole separation of the two industries. How can it remain relevant for years? relevant to who? I've picked that apart as well by exploring just how big (or small) the industry is here. You keep posting these questions but I've already answered them - just in a round-about method.

Now I really am done. I just think we are too far apart on this.


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steins gate well cause it wasn't that good? don't know what else to say

Usagi Drop never watched. This anime never made it past AnimeKami's first glance.

Once piece... yeah way too long for its own good but mostly because i think i watched when I was 9-10 on 4kids so yeah don't blame me.

Cowboy Bebop, character wise people remember more not the actual story

FMA yeah pretty good I remember it

Haruhi where do I begin with this pos... well it isn't as bad as I am making it out to be a pos, but it is just annoying

Angel Beats, is probably the best anime you've mentioned.

Clannad was alright...

Ano hana is better than Clannad

Durarara!! it's ok it's ok

Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica................................ a bit overrated for what it is

bakemonogatari was good

nisemonogatari i didn't know what i was watching.... moe blob in the way

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Posted 8/8/12 , edited 8/8/12
Wow lots of long long reply to the question.

In my opinion basing on my observation of being in the world of anime within only 10 years.....

Sales from menchandizing always gives a clue if a particular title is popular or not but it may not necesseraily give you a clue if that title is still popular years down the road. When you go to cons, you see what gets sold fast .The dealers will have those numbers of what sells.

But It think its more the number of exposure to the show and the demographic of who watches it now

In the US alone, LIke any other series, the more you release a title on network or TV on reruns the more people knows about it. For example Inuyasha. I have seen Inuyasha so many times on TV in the past 8 years alone and DEath NOte was shown so many times and repeated so many times as well. The same goes with Code Geass and Ghost in the Shell , the same is true for Naruto and Bleach and FMA, Trigun and Cowboy Bebop. WEll in the case of Naruto, it has been an ongoing anime of many many years.

THose series has been out for many years now and fans still cosplay for those anime and lots recognize the characters.

NOw in Japan . I cant really tell but the ratings will tell you what is really popular and when those kids grows up watching certain anime, that anime will not get forgotten easily for example Doraemon , One Piece, POwer Rangers ha ha ha ha

A lot of other culture are into the now and what is popular , so what might be popular now may not be next year and if it doesnt make money anymore , you dont see any new merchandize for it therefore it is doomed to be forgotten even though it was a really "good" anime

I tend to like anime that have a very good plot and characters no matter what genre it may be sometimes those are not the popular anime and since I am gettling older I lost my desire to watch any kidsie cute animation style


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