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Voice actors against fansubs?
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26 / M / Chesapeake, VA
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Posted 6/27/12
Hi, I am one of the few otaku who are anti-fansubs. Hell, I am against uploading ANY anime illegally. Manga included. But I know there have to be voice actors and even executives in the anime and manga industry who feel the same way. One comes to mind: Greg Ayres. Can anybody name any other people in the anime and manga industry who has spoken out against such uploads and tell me what they said(and link to it if possible)?
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39 / M / Manitoba
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Posted 6/27/12
I feel that the anime industry actually owes much to the fansubs. I have watched anime for a very very long time and in the early days there where not many other legitimate options to fansubs. I believe that it took the fansubs to show the industry that there was indeed a vast market available too them that they were ignoring. I also think that the availability of fansubs has lead the industry to make better translations for their works. Early legitimate dubs and subs seemed to be done by uninterested people who would often completely mess up the tone of the shows by trying to market them to the wrong audiences. Bad dubs and subs still happen but they seem to happen less now that the companies have realized the ways in which the fansubs are better.
Posted 6/27/12
fansubs are awesome, they keep me from not waiting for a DUB to come out, we owe them alot actually
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26 / M / Chesapeake, VA
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Posted 6/27/12 , edited 6/27/12
If fansubs were all that great and helpful to the industry, then anime companies would be supporting fansubs in both Japan(so a US company can license it) and the US(to get more sells). But they aren't. They are trying to put an end to it. Though the folks at AnimEigo told me(via email) as much as they WANT to put an end to their stuff being put online, they don't find it worth the time and effort. Primarily due to the cost of filing lawsuits and DMCA's. FUNimation, Crunchyroll, and TV Tokyo already have ways to report illegally uploaded material via email if it is their stuff.

Fansubs do not help the industry, just hurts it. Don't believe me? Ask FUNimation or better yet, read their tweet:

https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/4844628413

https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/4843404072

Overall, many fans say it helps, everybody in the industry and many anime fans say it hurts and facts support the hurting part.
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Posted 7/8/12

Otaku2012 wrote:

If fansubs were all that great and helpful to the industry, then anime companies would be supporting fansubs in both Japan(so a US company can license it) and the US(to get more sells). But they aren't. They are trying to put an end to it. Though the folks at AnimEigo told me(via email) as much as they WANT to put an end to their stuff being put online, they don't find it worth the time and effort. Primarily due to the cost of filing lawsuits and DMCA's. FUNimation, Crunchyroll, and TV Tokyo already have ways to report illegally uploaded material via email if it is their stuff.

Fansubs do not help the industry, just hurts it. Don't believe me? Ask FUNimation or better yet, read their tweet:

https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/4844628413

https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/4843404072

Overall, many fans say it helps, everybody in the industry and many anime fans say it hurts and facts support the hurting part.


Yes, it is illegal.

However, we are no longer in the early 90s, foreign fans dislike waiting often years at a time to even have access to certain anime. All fansubs do is to make it more accessible to people who can't understand the RAW. I'd never watch a subbed anime again, if I knew Japanese nor would I go to other illegally hosting sites, if the distributors actually put in the same effort. I've seen it happen in more than just the anime industry, when the primary source is unable to get the same content out in a similarly swift fashion, many people are not going to wait longer than necessary. You mentioned FUNimation, the funny thing is their site for the longest time gave me more problems than any other.
Also there are many in the industry who are dissatisfied with the current state of it. Dai Sato is notorious for opposition to the current state of the industry. It reveals really how terrible it actually is at the moment.

The staffs who handle the creative development of the anime in the first place benefit not at all for how well that anime actually does. The animators in particular only get paid a fixed amount of yen per completed frame. The distributors and the production studio as a whole rake in the profit and benefits from the sell of merchandise and ratings both in Japan and abroad, but that is as far as it goes. I must agree with Sato-san, it is a terrible practice. If my meager contribution went to benefit the staffs behind the anime I love, I'd happily dish out some cash just to show my support.
FUNimation for example takes a full week longer to get out an episode whereas the in Japan they are already an episode ahead. I'll admit, I'd freaking go on a rampage if I couldn't watch Eureka Seven: AO this coming week. Besides, we don't need some heavily edited subs, I want them accurate and the official subs to be more heavily edited.

As far as any subs go at the moment, they are far from sufficient. There are language barriers that need to be properly overcome or circumnavigated and translated between languages. The incorrectly spelled words, incomprehensible sentences and poor grammar all contribute to a hampering of the experience. Although, the official subs are generally better, they are still censored for foreign audiences. I for one don't like that bs, I want everything translated properly so it can be enjoyed fully as intended.
Overall the industry treating their own development staffs poorly is an issue requiring rectification before fansubs. Besides, I'm obviously going to be purchasing the Eureka Seven: AO DvD collections, (hopefully we'll get Blue-Ray) however, it'll take at least until next year before we even see the first. It can't be helped that were anxious to see new content, if distribution to other regions occurred swifter, you'd most certainly see less fansubs spread across the web.

The way I view it, a great anime will reflect the opinion of the consumer in terms of sales. Sure, I watch some stuff from fansub websites, but if I truly like it, I'll buy the product just to get the true quality version. Not to say it I endorse fansubs in any way, only that they industry faces bigger problems than fansubs.
I also recall you mentioned Greg Ayres. Dub actors can't say crap, no one really likes dubs anyway. The original voice cast is more entitled than any mimicking fools especially with how atrocious Greg Ayres voice acting is. I'd gladly support the original voice cast especially when their level of dedication far exceeds the standards in the West. Off the top of my head, there are only three dub voice actors I like, Crispin Freeman, Vic Mignogna, and Steven Blum.
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Posted 7/9/12

Otaku2012 wrote:

If fansubs were all that great and helpful to the industry, then anime companies would be supporting fansubs in both Japan(so a US company can license it) and the US(to get more sells). But they aren't. They are trying to put an end to it. Though the folks at AnimEigo told me(via email) as much as they WANT to put an end to their stuff being put online, they don't find it worth the time and effort. Primarily due to the cost of filing lawsuits and DMCA's. FUNimation, Crunchyroll, and TV Tokyo already have ways to report illegally uploaded material via email if it is their stuff.

Fansubs do not help the industry, just hurts it. Don't believe me? Ask FUNimation or better yet, read their tweet:

https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/4844628413

https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/4843404072

Overall, many fans say it helps, everybody in the industry and many anime fans say it hurts and facts support the hurting part.



The people who profit directly ("free anime") from fansubs think they are great.

The people who profit directly from total control of the medium have the opposite opinion. How is this a revelation?

Personally I think there's a middle ground and I do believe whatever the abuses and 'loss' the industry claims to be a victim of, they are also refusing to recognise gains.
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24 / M
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Posted 7/9/12 , edited 7/9/12
How anyone can even stand fansubs in general is astounding. The only reason that I sometimes take part in them is only when the show that they are on is non-accessible from a legit standpoint. For example, if I can't watch a current season show on Crunchyroll, Hulu, or Funimation, then I'm pretty screwed since I would have to take pretty much illegal means in order to watch the show. The quality of all fansubs is pretty much horrendous. I try, but man watching them after watching officiated ones from sites such as this will make you have bowel movements.

My stance against fansubs also comes to the point that sites like this and others that provide official streams and such are actually helping said shows and therefore helping the industry. The only time fansubs help is when a person watches it, then tells his friends, then buys the show. Does that happen every time? HELL NO, not even most the time! Sure, we may get the "Tells his friends" part, but since they are more than likely downloading the fansubs, you aren't gonna see them fork money over to import or buy the official releases. I commend them for providing subs when no one else can actually provide them, but if you prefer to watch fansub over officiated subs... you're dead to me.


Izual wrote:


Otaku2012 wrote:

If fansubs were all that great and helpful to the industry, then anime companies would be supporting fansubs in both Japan(so a US company can license it) and the US(to get more sells). But they aren't. They are trying to put an end to it. Though the folks at AnimEigo told me(via email) as much as they WANT to put an end to their stuff being put online, they don't find it worth the time and effort. Primarily due to the cost of filing lawsuits and DMCA's. FUNimation, Crunchyroll, and TV Tokyo already have ways to report illegally uploaded material via email if it is their stuff.

Fansubs do not help the industry, just hurts it. Don't believe me? Ask FUNimation or better yet, read their tweet:

https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/4844628413

https://twitter.com/FUNimation/status/4843404072

Overall, many fans say it helps, everybody in the industry and many anime fans say it hurts and facts support the hurting part.


Yes, it is illegal.

However, we are no longer in the early 90s, foreign fans dislike waiting often years at a time to even have access to certain anime. All fansubs do is to make it more accessible to people who can't understand the RAW. I'd never watch a subbed anime again, if I knew Japanese nor would I go to other illegally hosting sites, if the distributors actually put in the same effort. I've seen it happen in more than just the anime industry, when the primary source is unable to get the same content out in a similarly swift fashion, many people are not going to wait longer than necessary. You mentioned FUNimation, the funny thing is their site for the longest time gave me more problems than any other.
Also there are many in the industry who are dissatisfied with the current state of it. Dai Sato is notorious for opposition to the current state of the industry. It reveals really how terrible it actually is at the moment.

The staffs who handle the creative development of the anime in the first place benefit not at all for how well that anime actually does. The animators in particular only get paid a fixed amount of yen per completed frame. The distributors and the production studio as a whole rake in the profit and benefits from the sell of merchandise and ratings both in Japan and abroad, but that is as far as it goes. I must agree with Sato-san, it is a terrible practice. If my meager contribution went to benefit the staffs behind the anime I love, I'd happily dish out some cash just to show my support.
FUNimation for example takes a full week longer to get out an episode whereas the in Japan they are already an episode ahead. I'll admit, I'd freaking go on a rampage if I couldn't watch Eureka Seven: AO this coming week. Besides, we don't need some heavily edited subs, I want them accurate and the official subs to be more heavily edited.

As far as any subs go at the moment, they are far from sufficient. There are language barriers that need to be properly overcome or circumnavigated and translated between languages. The incorrectly spelled words, incomprehensible sentences and poor grammar all contribute to a hampering of the experience. Although, the official subs are generally better, they are still censored for foreign audiences. I for one don't like that bs, I want everything translated properly so it can be enjoyed fully as intended.
Overall the industry treating their own development staffs poorly is an issue requiring rectification before fansubs. Besides, I'm obviously going to be purchasing the Eureka Seven: AO DvD collections, (hopefully we'll get Blue-Ray) however, it'll take at least until next year before we even see the first. It can't be helped that were anxious to see new content, if distribution to other regions occurred swifter, you'd most certainly see less fansubs spread across the web.


GREAT WALLS OF TEXT, BATMAN!

I do agree on the point of censorship being a problem. Face it Funimation, nobody watches Highschool DxD for the plot. O.> Ya get me? I think censorship sucks just from a "I want the experience the director and such intended" standpoint, not always the I want boobs and blood point though... in fact, I do like censorship that is done in a comedic or respectable way, but most the time we get lightbeams from the sun during nighttime garbage, or giant bothersome graphics in the scenes. GAG ME...



The way I view it, a great anime will reflect the opinion of the consumer in terms of sales. Sure, I watch some stuff from fansub websites, but if I truly like it, I'll buy the product just to get the true quality version. Not to say it I endorse fansubs in any way, only that they industry faces bigger problems than fansubs.
I also recall you mentioned Greg Ayres. Dub actors can't say crap, no one really likes dubs anyway. The original voice cast is more entitled than any mimicking fools especially with how atrocious Greg Ayres voice acting is. I'd gladly support the original voice cast especially when their level of dedication far exceeds the standards in the West. Off the top of my head, there are only three dub voice actors I like, Crispin Freeman, Vic Mignogna, and Steven Blum.



No one really likes dubs anyway? GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY! Way to generalize and make everybody sound like a weaboo. I friggin love dubs, and I think Greg Ayres is a pretty cool guy (I have a friend that personally met him and told me so, I did not meet him however). Sure, his voice is really obvious to pick out and just doesn't fit all roles, but there are a few roles where his voice shines. Buying the official releases from companies like Funimation does support the studio that brought you those original voices more than you buying from Japan anyways (voting with your money is sort of the point. What Funimation pays for licensing the show is more than you ever would want to). Don't worry though, the japanese voices come in the DVD/Blu-ray set too, so your virgin ears can be clean!
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24 / M
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Posted 7/9/12
Although, I do say. Fansubs don't hurt the industry. But, they don't really help that much either.
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Posted 7/9/12
Obviously, I wouldn't buy the DvDs of anime at all if they didn't have the original audio.

I never said I hated Greg Ayres, I think he jumped to a conclusion much too quickly and his voice just doesn't fit many roles. It is the same thing Johnny suffers from, too. Although, Johnny is much more popular hence why his voice tends to be so flat and generic these days especially when you consider he is in practically everything.
As for the censorship portion, I dislike it. No one likes having their crap censored, censorship is a form of extending control over you. Perhaps that is why I wholeheartedly agree with Miyazaki's refusal to permit his films to be shown unless said company agrees not to edit/censor it in any way. Censorship stifles creativity, and doesn't do justice to either the work or its creators. Essentially it does not express respect for the hard work that went into its development.

I do not recall saying anything about FUNimation not supporting the studios'. Obviously they have to since they receive a license by that studio to distribute it. Although, in Japan it is Bandai Visual that does a tremendous amount of the distributing. However, I don't think you fully got my point. None of those actively involved in the development of an anime benefit from its sells.
The studio will, but once the staff/cast have completed their work on the project, they are no longer being paid. All of this is obviously done before the anime airs, so it is not like they get any cuts from its success. Some of the more prominent staff may be recognized and given awards and be entrusted with future projects, but that is about it. Same could be said for the cast, the studio may give them priority in future employment, but that is the extent of it.

It is hardly generalized, dubs are not as well received. My reasoning is that voice acting is taken more seriously in Japan than in most of the world. Being crammed into a soundproof booth and just saying your lines doesn't sound like an overly thrilling experience. It is considered more traditional, but also more effective when you actually believe you are having a conversation with someone. Choosing the right cast is essential in determining not only how well one individual's performance may turn out, but it affects the performances of the other cast.
When you take that into consideration it is no surprise there is a greater opinion that the original voice actors in anime are superior. The Western world in particular departed those shores long ago. Sure, time from time you'll find a decent dub, but not as often as you'd like. Besides, why the hell do I always hear crap like weaboo and Japanophile when discussing these sort of topics on Crunchyroll!?
The Wise Wizard
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56 / M / U.S.A. (mid-south)
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Posted 7/9/12

garlikbakery wrote:
I do agree on the point of censorship being a problem. Face it Funimation, nobody watches Highschool DxD for the plot. O.> Ya get me? I think censorship sucks just from a "I want the experience the director and such intended" standpoint, not always the I want boobs and blood point though... in fact, I do like censorship that is done in a comedic or respectable way, but most the time we get lightbeams from the sun during nighttime garbage, or giant bothersome graphics in the scenes. GAG ME...

Keep in mind that if you are watching on TV in Japan, you are seeing the same thing unless perhaps you are watching on a premium channel like AT-X.

BTW, from what I could find, the monthly price for AT-X is 1890 yen, which is current $23.73. How many people do you think would pay anything close to that each month to Funimation or CR just to get uncensored versions of some simulcasts?

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Posted 7/9/12

Otaku2012 wrote:

Hi, I am one of the few otaku who are anti-fansubs. Hell, I am against uploading ANY anime illegally. Manga included. But I know there have to be voice actors and even executives in the anime and manga industry who feel the same way. One comes to mind: Greg Ayres. Can anybody name any other people in the anime and manga industry who has spoken out against such uploads and tell me what they said(and link to it if possible)?


No one is questioning the right or wrong of it because we already know the answer. You just can't get certain shows&comics any other way, and if given an affordable middle ground, most will take it (Crunchyroll, itunes). I love a certian manga about a doughnut-loving dream demon, but I don't understand enough French or Japanese to understand the official releases of it, which hampers my enjoyment of it. So, I end up resorting to scanlations. Common story that even the guys at ANN will tell you.

Fan-translations themselves have a long history in the western anime fandom, and there are quite a few articles about it, and its history.
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27 / M / Australia
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Posted 7/9/12 , edited 7/9/12
If Funimation would let Australians use their site, I wouldn't have to use fan subs.
Posted 7/9/12 , edited 7/9/12
I'm poor and impatient soo, meh.
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from the South Bay
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Posted 7/9/12 , edited 7/9/12
Why we keep bringing this subject up again and again.

If the industry is worldwide in streaming their anime and with a reasonable price then a lot of anime fans out there doesn't need to resort to fansubs and not so kosher streaming sites.There are still part of the world where the internet is not cheap as well and those place resorts to pirated goods which are most of the time from fansub anime.

I have only been watching anime since the early mid 2000 and back then the only anime I can watch was through TV network. Later I discovered all these pirated goods via ebay and then the internet.The industry is so slow to the changes in technology that they are behind. It took them a long time to notice.CR beginings were not kosher either but they turned it into a business model which I hope continues to grow and others are doing the same too. But the challenge now is the price because of the economy is down everywhere.

But The internet generation is different , its the now generation. If the industry can not cope with this then a lot will resort to the internet legal or not and the economy is a big factor worldwide as well

Yes there are voice actors out there who are very vocal about these things. Its because the media industry loose profit from all these things and it all boils down to the actors livelihood. Crispin Freeman is very vocal about this too and don't get him started. I never mention the word fansub to him at all ha ha ha when I am with him.

THen MOrita san aka Ichigo of Bleach made a huge speech about the legal streaming vs illegal stream sites by making anime fans be loyal and do the right thing. He promoted CR heavily couple years ago.
That was the very first time I see a seiyuu did that .
.
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Oz
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Posted 7/9/12

rikku456 wrote:

If Funimation would let Australians use their site, I wouldn't have to use fan subs.


madman.com.au has ALOT of free eps on their site

(**Madman is an anime distribution company in Australia**)

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