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Muv Luv: Alternative Total Eclipse
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Posted 8/13/12

Exia66 wrote:

You people did read the plot synopsis, right?

THAT WAS ANIME EXCLUSIVE PREQUEL MATERIAL TO SET UP YUI'S CHARACTER (Caps for emphasis.)
Otherwise, she would've come off as an insufferable dick.


Yeah, I did. And, no, that doesn't matter. *You* realize we were talking about the quality of the episodes and not the plot points, right?

The first two episodes were quite good. The past five were not. And there are plenty of people saying the same thing. So, right now this show is failing on the "promise" it made in those first two episodes.

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Posted 8/13/12
lackluster past 3 episodes
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Posted 8/14/12 , edited 8/14/12

deadpanditto wrote:

The first two episodes were quite good. The past five were not. And there are plenty of people saying the same thing. So, right now this show is failing on the "promise" it made in those first two episodes.



Not...really.

Incorrect use of shading, terrible CG and dare I say?

Terrible character animation (or lack thereof).
The first episode had some one who clearly see through.
And if anything, it's improved vastly in terms of consistency.

And besides, it didn't 'promise' anything.
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Posted 8/14/12
As long as the protagonist doesn't make you (the audience) /rage the anime is fine.

So, with that said if you /raged at the protagonist please watch more anime.
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Posted 8/14/12

Exia66 wrote:


deadpanditto wrote:

The first two episodes were quite good. The past five were not. And there are plenty of people saying the same thing. So, right now this show is failing on the "promise" it made in those first two episodes.



Not...really.

Incorrect use of shading, terrible CG and dare I say?

Terrible character animation (or lack thereof).
The first episode had some one who clearly see through.
And if anything, it's improved vastly in terms of consistency.

And besides, it didn't 'promise' anything.


@Exia66, I agree with @deadpanditto, the first two episodes were pretty good. It provided a good, although brief, background story of the conflict before showing the fall of the capital. There was an intensity and good pacing, but it seem liked they threw on the brakes in episode three and shifted perspective toward Yuuya. There is a different tone between episode 2 and episode 3.

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Posted 8/14/12
The first episodes typically set the tone for the series and this one had me morbidly curious after the first two episodes and thinking after the time jump there's going to be a regrouping and taking back the invaded territory, but it went in in a direction that I'm not comfortable with. If it stayed like the first two episodes I would've watched it through, and I would have still watched it if the third episode was the first episode of the series. I just don't like the change of pace from 100 mph to 15 mph so quickly and early in the series. That's partially why I stopped watching Arcana Famiglia the first episode set the pace for the series then spends three episodes in character development. The series may or may not have gotten better since I stopped, but it's too late once dropped.
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Posted 8/14/12 , edited 8/14/12

volcan_98 wrote:

@Exia66, I agree with @deadpanditto, the first two episodes were pretty good. It provided a good, although brief, background story of the conflict before showing the fall of the capital. There was an intensity and good pacing, but it seem liked they threw on the brakes in episode three and shifted perspective toward Yuuya. There is a different tone between episode 2 and episode 3.



Because geez, I dunno, Yuuya's the main character?
(This is sarcasm in case you couldn't tell Yuuya is the main character.)

And that was sorta the whole point behind the first two episodes. To introduce the world setting, establish Yui's dickish nature, etc.

I'm assuming people would enjoy the show more if it was about if it was all grimderp.

It was either do Anime-exclusive Yui set up or Railgun testing (In which nothing happens!)
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Posted 8/14/12
Not sure where everyone is saying the first two episodes where good by anymeans. I mean, that "military" school was mostly a joke by any normal standard...anywhere....and the second episode was mostly shock value of "Wahh! I watched my friends die" character setup. I felt more empathy with Rico in the Starshop Troopers movie then I did here. The rest of the episodes have slowly degraded into into visual novel plotlineness.

It still has mecha, and for that, I am grateful.
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Posted 8/14/12

camontour wrote:

Not sure where everyone is saying the first two episodes where good by anymeans.
*snip*
The rest of the episodes have slowly degraded into into visual novel plotlineness.


You've made my point right there. It's a matter of comparison.

For a show that's essentially a "Top Gun" knock-off, it's doing a poor job of engaging the audience, imo. The first two episodes are not needed to establish Yui's character. She's not the MC so let's not pretend she is. You can establish her issues via flashbacks or other means.

This is why I feel the first two episodes are a bait-and-switch scheme. These episodes are there to pull you in, but the series being shown so far is not what you are lead to believe from those episodes. It is completely irrelevant what is written in the series description. People base their impressions on what they see, and the first impressions are based on those two episodes. Those episodes are dark since humanity is dealing with an implacable foe.

Switching to a "Top Gun" approach after that isn't bad, but it needs to maintain the context setup in the first two episodes. This is where the series has failed so far, imo. In the past 5 episodes, you don't feel much other than Yui is being unreasonble, Yuuya is being clueless, and Cryska is being... Russian. They may have reasons for the way they are acting, but it feels more like caricatures rather than characters. There's no sense of urgency, there's no sense of danger, there's no sense that this is the end of the world. There should be.

This is why I think the switch back to action may help this show. These "Top Gun" episodes may have been week, but maybe when Yuuya is actually fighting the BETA will things start progressing where I think they should go, like those first two episodes.

Posted 8/14/12
The first two episodes serves as a tool to help the viewer become familiar with the Muv Luv-verse. Yes, they may have been bait-and-switch material but the show mainly appeals to a group familiar with the source. The first two episodes explains things that an unfamiliar viewer needs to know. A flashback wouldn't explain these required knowledge well enough and would feel intrusive on how the show has developed.
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Posted 8/15/12
I would go insofar to say that the first two episodes where not even good, and defenitly not good at defining Yui as a character.

Let me explain.

The plot of the universe is explained in the first 5 minutes. Alt Earth timeline, go to the moon in 1967, giant aliens hell bent on killing and eating (Zergish even) are encountered, we make mechs,....etc.

Cue Imperial Japan and to Yui. we meet her and her friends (Who are never named btw until the second episode). They seem like normal schoolgirls....but they are training to be TSF pilots...wait, you can have picnics at a military school?...I'll bite, it's animeland.

Three major plot points happen in episode one:

1. During a class, we are told most soldiers last 8 minutes on the battlefield, which is pretty much blown over. (If I was told that the job I was about to do ment that 80% of us only lived 8 minutes, I would sure as hell pay attention.) Also, rival introed.

2. A student is killed during training. This shows the "seriousness" of it all.

3. Glasses finds our her BF is killed in action. War is a horrible thing.

BAM, they finish what I assume is the best military acadmey in Japan. Onto episode two.

Episode 2: AHHH! The Zer.........I mean the BETA attacks! All the characters minus Yui suddenly become red shirts, aka Blue Gender style. But...I have zero reason to care at this point. I know next to nothing about these nameless (well, they get names as they die I guess) girls. But, I digress. Yui, only one who makes it out alive. At which point...all we get for development in character department is a one liner ("When did we stop counting the dead") or something like that, a quick tear fest, and this gem : "I'll never cry again".

Huh? I'm no expert, but you just watched the girls you trained with, shared stories and secrets with for 2 (3?) years, get horribly killed (to include eaten by aliens), right in front of you. I understand military training allows one to compartmentalize feelings and emotions, but after the battle? Holy hell, I would have nightmares for weeks. Where is the sleepless nights? The fits of rage, of depression one would think goes with such a horrific action? Even the possible PTSD.....nope, not even a little coping? No viewing of her as she struggles to come to grips of what exactly just happened? Not even a small one?.......Well, she is WAY more sturdy then I gave her credit for....so why do I feel for her again?...

*time skip 3 years later*

Holy crap, what happened? Ensign Bridges? Ah, I see he fills the role of arrogant newb. And he just happens to be American....ish. Hey, Yui is here too!....with a severe case of superiorty complex....(The Bridges/Yui interaction is an entirely other topic)....

So if anything, the first two episodes....did ZERO in setting up...pretty much anything, besides a very weak attempt at shoving "THE HORROR OF WAR" down my throat.
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Posted 8/15/12
So far I'm still holding out that it'll start to kick some more mass now that we've gotten most of the major characters introduced. It did seem really weird how the first two episodes felt totally different in tone than the next five, but again, I'll give them the benefit of a doubt.

But seriously, stuff needs to start exploding soon or I'm going to lose interest. And they'd better work that relationship stuff into the battles too after going through the trouble of setting it up in ep's 6 and 7 (aka the Yui/Yuuya/Cryska love triangle). Like Yuuya going in to save Cryska and Inia against Yui's orders after they get shot down against, while using all those techniques we watched him train on.

And the twist is that Yui deliberately ordered the two girls to go into an area where there was heavy BETA infestation, so as to get rid of a rival without making it too obvious, which Yuuya calls her out on, and causes him to get closer to Cryska as a result. Which then causes Yui to let her emotions get the better of her, and she deliberately tries to separate them via different missions.

I guess it's a bit predictable. But again, they need to go up against some live enemy soon, as we've spent 5 episodes watching them not do too much against the huge threat against humanity.
Posted 8/15/12

camontour wrote:

I would go insofar to say that the first two episodes where not even good, and defenitly not good at defining Yui as a character.


It helps explains why she's a bit strict towards Yuuya. She understands the seriousness of this war. Plus, it shows how different the Japanese is from American hence the Yui-Yuuya conflict. It also reveals that Yui is from a family the emphasizes on serving the military.


Cue Imperial Japan and to Yui. we meet her and her friends (Who are never named btw until the second episode). They seem like normal schoolgirls....but they are training to be TSF pilots...wait, you can have picnics at a military school?...I'll bite, it's animeland.


The reasons the girls are training to become pilots is because there is only approximately 1 billion people left on Earth. Most of the men have already been sent off to fight the BETA. The "picnic" bit is how the Japanese eat their lunch in school - I concluded this from various anime. IIRC, the "military school" was just a normal school all along but had military-like classes to educate and train the students.


Three major plot points happen in episode one:

1. During a class, we are told most soldiers last 8 minutes on the battlefield, which is pretty much blown over. (If I was told that the job I was about to do ment that 80% of us only lived 8 minutes, I would sure as hell pay attention.) Also, rival introed.

2. A student is killed during training. This shows the "seriousness" of it all.

3. Glasses finds our her BF is killed in action. War is a horrible thing.


My previous post already stated that the point of the first two episodes is help viewers become familiar with the source. This is an adaption of an LN which itself is a spin off of the Muv Luv Alternative timeline. It demonstrates some of the training cadets/ensigns go under prior to entering battle.


BAM, they finish what I assume is the best military acadmey in Japan. Onto episode two.

Episode 2: AHHH! The Zer.........I mean the BETA attacks! All the characters minus Yui suddenly become red shirts, aka Blue Gender style. But...I have zero reason to care at this point. I know next to nothing about these nameless (well, they get names as they die I guess) girls. But, I digress. Yui, only one who makes it out alive. At which point...all we get for development in character department is a one liner ("When did we stop counting the dead") or something like that, a quick tear fest, and this gem : "I'll never cry again".

Huh? I'm no expert, but you just watched the girls you trained with, shared stories and secrets with for 2 (3?) years, get horribly killed (to include eaten by aliens), right in front of you. I understand military training allows one to compartmentalize feelings and emotions, but after the battle? Holy hell, I would have nightmares for weeks. Where is the sleepless nights? The fits of rage, of depression one would think goes with such a horrific action? Even the possible PTSD.....nope, not even a little coping? No viewing of her as she struggles to come to grips of what exactly just happened? Not even a small one?.......Well, she is WAY more sturdy then I gave her credit for....so why do I feel for her again?...


I treated the little bit of Yui crying as signs of her feelings about what happened. Did you not see how she was stressing for her companions to fly at an altitude that the laser class cannot reach? Yui did break down but she recuperated fast through the sounds of a crying child. As bullshit as it was, she did have a momentary depression.

Also, I wouldn't go as far to say it's "shock factor" when one can clearly judge from the preview that someone was going to die.


*time skip 3 years later*

-snip-it of Yui/Yuuya rant cut off-

So if anything, the first two episodes....did ZERO in setting up...pretty much anything, besides a very weak attempt at shoving "THE HORROR OF WAR" down my throat.



Again, refer to my post above yours about what the first two episodes does. Granted it does demonstrate "the horrors of war" but that is not its main purpose.


Salamander3 wrote:

So far I'm still holding out that it'll start to kick some more mass now that we've gotten most of the major characters introduced. It did seem really weird how the first two episodes felt totally different in tone than the next five, but again, I'll give them the benefit of a doubt.

But seriously, stuff needs to start exploding soon or I'm going to lose interest. And they'd better work that relationship stuff into the battles too after going through the trouble of setting it up in ep's 6 and 7 (aka the Yui/Yuuya/Cryska love triangle).


I cut off the last two paragraphs because they seemed like spoilers. You may want to spoiler them.

IIRC, the show switched to a new director after episode 2 so that's why it feels a lot different in tone. Again, the first two episodes is merely an introduction to the franchise and shows the war against the BETA. The next few episodes are "pilot training" stuff so it is very different. I've read somewhere that things will be happening in a few episodes so you can expect it soon.
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Posted 8/15/12 , edited 8/15/12

AsuraCryin wrote:



It helps explains why she's a bit strict towards Yuuya. She understands the seriousness of this war. Plus, it shows how different the Japanese is from American hence the Yui-Yuuya conflict. It also reveals that Yui is from a family the emphasizes on serving the military


I wouldn't call it so much as "strict", but more like "lacks necessary leadership skills to effectivly deal with prideful people under her command"


The reasons the girls are training to become pilots is because there is only approximately 1 billion people left on Earth. Most of the men have already been sent off to fight the BETA. The "picnic" bit is how the Japanese eat their lunch in school - I concluded this from various anime. IIRC, the "military school" was just a normal school all along but had military-like classes to educate and train the students

It's this "normal" school like setting that uncuts any possible seriousness of what is going on around the world. I understand the need for a sense of normalcy, however, the massive sense of urgency you would think comes from knowing that your entire country is on the brink of being overrun is not really there.


My previous post already stated that the point of the first two episodes is help viewers become familiar with the source. This is an adaption of an LN which itself is a spin off of the Muv Luv Alternative timeline. It demonstrates some of the training cadets/ensigns go under prior to entering battle

No wonder they got slaughtered. But seriously, introing the universe was done in the first 10 minutes. These two episodes where in large, an attempt to establish the overall character of Yui, and the events leading up to who and what made her today.


I treated the little bit of Yui crying as signs of her feelings about what happened. Did you not see how she was stressing for her companions to fly at an altitude that the laser class cannot reach? Yui did break down but she recuperated fast through the sounds of a crying child. As bullshit as it was, she did have a momentary depression.

Also, I wouldn't go as far to say it's "shock factor" when one can clearly judge from the preview that someone was going to die


Her relativity tame "emotional' outbreak seems to heavily undermine everything she just witnessed. I understand you cannot spend an entire episode dealing with the fallout of such events that occured to her, and watch her comes to grips with it and solidify her resolve as a soldier and a person.
It simply is much weaker storytelling and a cop-out just to go "I'll never cry again" *snaps anime storytelling fingers* All is well. As for stressing, it was under the stress of actual combat, and makes sense. I'm simply picking out all the after the battle highspeed character development. It is prolly a little nitpicky, I will concede.

I also say it was geared more as a "shock value" effect simply because, well, they killed EVERYONE. (Plus watching her friends get eaten is up there, generally kinda hardcore.)



Again, refer to my post above yours about what the first two episodes does. Granted it does demonstrate "the horrors of war" but that is not its main purpose


I honestly believe that's not the whole truth. The two opening episodes attempted to set not only Yui's character, but an overall tone for the world she lives in, the possible issues future characters will face. It fell, in that respect, flat on it's face, when it built up Yui as this normal(ish) girl, training to defend her country, trying to do her family name proud. In throws in her in the mist of an unstoppable enemy, lets her watch everything she knows go to hell an a handbasket, and I am treated to her strengthing her resolve via a quick inner monologe about the price of war, and a quick tearfest into her arm. Then she is magicly better and steel hearted....Wha?

In understand it is the LN spin-off off the Alt timeline (which in turn is a sequel to the Unlimited timeline in the org MuvLuv game.). But it could have been better. Much, much better.




Edit: Stupid quote tags...
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Posted 8/15/12 , edited 8/15/12
With the next episode titled "Far East Battle Lines" they may get back to the action sooner than later, I hope.

Yuuya's general attitude towards his dad and the Japanese in general.

Below was taken from my own MOT post on page 5 of the MOT thread
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