a lot of new anime's ripping of TMOHS
Posted 7/18/12
I have watched a couple of few new Animes (not tons and tons as i am not making watching anime into some sort of future career or critic thing, so don't abuse and bash I if this opinion may not be fair or just to the other millions of Anime out there) and I thought that alot of them seem to be going in the direction of ''The Melancholy Of Haruhi Suzumiya''. Now im just picking up bits and pieces here, but to me it seems that way. What with the whole starting a new club because none of the current one fits their needs, logo's being rather similar to TMOHS, all of the characters resembling Haruhi, Kyon, Koizumi, Mikuru and Yuki- rather fiercely, and other elements. I know in all Anime's they have to have that fair-haired moe girl and over-hyper one, and there are many other cliche's hither and thither, but I don't think the ones in these ''certain new Anime's'' just happened by coincidence or following the law of anime cliche's, I seriously think the director/creator sat down and watched a whole lot of Haruhi and was inspired. that's my thoughts anyway, what about you dudes and dandies? Have you been picking up on this?
79739 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
49 / M / KC
Offline
Posted 7/18/12
I think you are reading too much into it. There may be a few similarities, but only when you over-generalize. Storywise, the shows are very different.
734 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / F / Toronto, Canada
Offline
Posted 7/18/12
Dude, it's not like Haruhi is the most original piece of work.
62495 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
50 / M / Champaign, IL
Online
Posted 7/18/12 , edited 7/18/12

deadpanditto wrote:

I think you are reading too much into it. There may be a few similarities, but only when you over-generalize. Storywise, the shows are very different.



polx wrote:

Dude, it's not like Haruhi is the most original piece of work.


Those two quotes are a good start in explaining this phenomenon. I presume that you are referring to either Kokoro Connect or Tari Tari?

The character similarities, at least superficially, are there for KC - Iori is a bit Haruhi like, Yui is a little bit Mikuru-ish, and the quite computer nerd one, Inaba, could be construed to be kind of like Yuki. The guys though? nope. Not seeing it. As for story line, there is absolutely nothing in common other than a group of individuals in a club and strange occurrences happening. Nothing remotely like having an actual Esper, Alien, and Time Traveler as members of the club, and there is no Kyon like person anywhere to be found.

Tari Tari? I just don't see it at all! This has no supernatural or science fiction element, the personalities of the characters are not even remotely similar, and the storyline is, likewise, totally different.

I think the real explanation for this perception of yours lies in two sources.

First is the nature of what Haruhi was: A parody/homage to all things Otaku. If it was a trope, cliche, plot device, or character archetype that is commonly used in anime or manga, Haruhi would take it, display it to us in a mirror to inspect, embrace, and lovingly fondle to our hearts content. This was part of the brilliance that the Haruhi novels, manga, and anime brought to Otaku culture, an extremely self-aware, loving homage to the best and worst aspects of the culture, presented with a flourish and enough originality, in the person of Haruhi herself and the fourth wall violating narration of Kyon, that it comes across as genius instead of derivative crap.

Second is a particular trope, which is extremely common in many forms of entertainment, from movies to live action TV to anime and beyond: The Five Man Band!

Here is the description from TVTropes.org for the five man band:

The Five-Man Band is a group of characters whose members fall into archetypes which all complement one another. They are a very specific team with skills that contribute to the group in a unique way.

The group traditionally includes:

* The Leader — (lead singer) The leader of the group. Can be a mastermind, charismatic, levelheaded, headstrong, or some combination of the four. Often also The Hero.
* The Lancer — (lead guitar) The second-in-command, usually a contrast to The Leader. If the Leader is clean-cut and/or uptight, the Lancer is a grizzled Anti-Hero or Deadpan Snarker; if the Leader is driven and somewhat amoral, the Lancer is more relaxed and level-headed.
* The Smart Guy — (keyboardist) The physically weak, but intelligent or clever member. Often nerdy and awkward played for comic relief. Sometimes unconventionally young (early- to mid-teens). Sometimes a Trickster and a buddy of the Big Guy. May be the one with all the "street" connections.
* The Big Guy — (drummer) The strongman of the team. May be dumb. Or mute.
* The Chick — (vocal effects, tambourine) A peacekeeping role to balance out the other members' aggression, bringing them to a nice or at least manageable medium. The Chick is often considered the heart of the group. Not always female, but the role is usually taken by the Token Girl (hence the name). Sometimes referred to as "the useless girl".

Associated Character Tropes

* Big Brother Mentor / Team Mom / Team Dad / Cool Big Sis
* The Medic — Generally either The Chick or The Smart Guy, or a combination of the two; more likely to be The Smart Guy the further up the Mohs Scale of Sci-Fi Hardness you go.
* Mentors — The wise advisory type who comes and goes. Potentially organizes the team, trains them to be an effective group, and/or has a personal connection with the Big Bad. They might be killed to give the group someone to rally around.
* Sixth Ranger — A johnny-come-lately addition to the team, often an outrider type who has been lurking on the edges of the action from the beginning. Their addition to the Five-Man Band usually shakes up the status quo. Has a tendency to be a defector from the bad guys. Sometimes the Ensemble Darkhorse.
* The Sneaky Guy — A function of The Lancer or The Smart Guy.
* Tagalong Kid — Usually the Leader's or the Chick's younger sibling. Gets to save the day about once per season, thus generating about a 1:63 ratio of "being useful" to "getting kidnapped".
* The Team Pet — The dog, cute alien, or Robot Buddy. Might occasionally enable plots, but not really a character in the conventional sense.


These are applied to Haruhi in a particularly humorous way, as there are two lists. Reality, and Haruhi's perception:

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (Played with; some members have been assigned the wrong roles to accommodate Haruhi.)
The Hero Haruhi (Really The Lancer)
The Lancer Itsuki (Really The Smart Guy)
The Big Guy Kyon (Really The Hero)
The Smart Guy Yuki (Really The Big Guy)
The Chick Mikuru
Sixth Ranger Tsuruya (Not officially in the Brigade, but still frequently involved.)
Tagalong Kid Kyon's sister (It's not even a question)
Team Pet Shamisen

* The trope is played with in the drama CD, Sound Around, when Haruhi makes the SOS-Dan into a band and gives them the proper (from her point of view) instruments, though Yuki and Kyon's guitars are switched.
* It's also arguable that whilst Haruhi treats Kyon as the The Big Guy (i.e. using him for all the menial labour) and Itsuki as The Lancer (i.e. promoting him to her second-in-command), she really sees them as the other way round, since Kyon is her Straight Man (and quite possibly love interest), as well as the one who gave the idea for the SOS Brigade in the first place, whilst Itsuki is just really there to back up all her decisions, and is also the tallest.


For Kokoro Connect, I would say they are as follows:
Leader: Nagase, Iori
Lancer: Inaba, Himeko
The Big Guy: Yaegashi, Taichi
The Smart Guy: Aoki, Yoshifumi
The Chick: Kiriyama, Yui

I have some question about Lancer, Big Guy, and Smart Guy...

For Tari Tari it is much clearer:
Leader: Konatsu
Lancer: Sakai
Smart Guy: Wien
Big Guy: Taichi
Chick: Sawa

These things combined may make you feel people are using Haruhi to develop new series, but it is just that they share a similar heritage, not that people are actually using Haruhi as a template for their shows.
79739 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
49 / M / KC
Offline
Posted 7/18/12
Great analysis, Zensunni!


Zensunni wrote:

These things combined may make you feel people are using Haruhi to develop new series, but it is just that they share a similar heritage, not that people are actually using Haruhi as a template for their shows.


This is really the crux of the matter.

People are hardwired to recognize patterns or templates. If you read enough books, watch enough movies, TV, or anime, you'll run across patterns again and again. And you'll hear people claim these are rip-offs. That accusation is made too often and far too easily, imo. Ironically, the people that usually make this accusation base it on the work where they first noticed the pattern and the work is usually similar to earlier works. Like Haruhi in this instance.

One thing to consider: sometimes the pattern really is intentional. I think the "5 Man Band" that Zensunni discusses is one of these. It's a way of setting expectations and creating a familiar world for the viewer/reader. It's also a way of subtly setting the rules so that the writer doesn't have to explain as much when creating the world.

Anyway, I don't think it matters if a work is similar to something else. What matters is how well the new work tells its own story. Enjoy it for what it is, not what you may think it is copying.

Posted 7/18/12 , edited 7/18/12
you all bring forward very good points. i wasnt actually searching for Haruhi-ism in those anime's (as Zensunni pointed out it was indeed Tari Tari and Kokoro Connect) it just seemed so much like it, and i havent even watched TMOHS in a while. i've watched all three eps of Tari Tari that have come out because i really like the artwork, but the story so far hasnt gripped me so i wont be keeping an eye out for it, but with Kokoro Connect i hadnt even completed the first episode when i clicked out of it because it seems like such a blatant copy of Haruhi (may not necessarily be the plot in general but other elements), plus i wasnt even nearing the end of the episode when they started pulling out the sex appeal and nudity so thats another factor that put me off... i may have been getting off topic...

oh yeah, and i wanted to mention i dont usually call things a rip off. in fact it annoys me when every tiny thing people consider it to ripped of somewhere, especially since there are a million anime's out there and they cant all be completely unique, but to me these two seemed to be so blatant. i think it might just me though given the current replies. i will probably watch more of Tari Tari once its completed, as for KC i dont think i'll bother, even given the explanations and the fact that i know the plot itself is different to TMOHS i cant bare to give it another chance, to me it still seems like the creator was watching too much Haruhi xDDD
47486 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Scotland
Offline
Posted 7/18/12 , edited 7/18/12

bubbamax1990 wroteas for KC i dont think i'll bother, even given the explanations and the fact that i know the plot itself is different to TMOHS i cant bare to give it another chance, to me it still seems like the creator was watching too much Haruhi xDDD

The second episode of Kokoro Connect was fantastic - way above the level of episode 1. But if you've decided you won't enjoy it, I guess there isn't much that can be said that would change your mind.

I also really don't see the similarity between The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya and Kokoro Connect. For a start, Kokoro Connect looks like it's going to focus a lot more on drama.
240 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/18/12
Yeah Kokoro Connect does remind me of Haruhi, but TBH Haruhi is more of a meta-parody type of thing where they just jammed every cliche possible into it for laughs, where Kokoro Connect seems a bit serious (at least from episode 2)

You must be logged in to post.