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Post Reply are you religious? if so, why?
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Posted 8/17/12
Statically speaking, 70 billion dollars a year in tax exempt for churches. Now if we actually use that money to go help people in poverty, your left over amount will still be over 68bil. All this money can be used to help feed hunger all over the world, accommodate people who live in the streets, etc... but no, it's used for some religions that never benefits anybody.

Here's a true story. I'm going to keep this short. There was these 2 asian ladies who always walk by our house around 6-7AM in the morning. One day my mom greet them and they talked, and they said they've been going to Church all their life. The two women were around the age of 50-60 and God hasn't give them anything good. They were very poor, so is my family and some of us weren't even religious. Then a few months later, we see cops and ambulance everywhere and then we spot one of the asian lady from before. We asked what's up, turn out the other woman got hit by a car and died WHILE walking to Church. My question is ; Where is God to protect her? She's poor because she's been giving all these money to Church, she died because she chose walk that way to go to Church. I see no benefits in believing, only disadvantages.
Posted 8/17/12 , edited 8/17/12

Michaeln93 wrote:


Watermelonheaven wrote:


Michaeln93 wrote:


Watermelonheaven wrote:


Michaeln93 wrote:


Watermelonheaven wrote:


Michaeln93 wrote:


Watermelonheaven wrote:

I used to be Buddhist but I'm agnostic now. I see agnosticism as the middle ground between religion and atheism.

I don't think I can be sure any god is real but, at the same time, it's hard to prove that god isn't real.


Nooo, it's pretty easy. You can use philosophy to make a hardcore religious person rethink about religion. All the things people say to prove god is real are absolutely ridiculous and child's play.

"Well who created us other than god?"

"No other being out there is as powerful as god, so he must created us!" << Can't ask this question unless you're assuming there is a god so this isn't even a counterproductive argument.

And what's with priest molesting children? This is not a false rumor, these things actually happens.

I don't think those are even valid arguments. A religion is separate from its followers.

It's not that easy to prove/disprove something as profound and unknown as the supernatural. It's actually very hard to prove that some things don't exist, especially if this entity is supposedly something we can't see, hear, smell, taste, etc. For instance, you can't prove to me that there isn't a gold-rimmed white mug in the orbit of Mars at this very moment. You can say why it is unlikely and we can interpret the unlikeliness as a 'doesn't exist,' but the off-chance is still there.


Those weren't arguments. Those were questions asked by theist. I am not even making an argument.

You are correct, it is not that easy to prove or disprove of something that is unknown. But first of all, you would have to tell me where did this concept of "gold-rimmed white mug in the orbit of Mars" come from? What is the reason for this to exist in the first place? What was the premises that led you to believe that such a thing exist?

For the concept of God, there are reasons of how this came to be. A few may be because humans are discomforted and needed something to put faith in, or maybe because humans are born with a degree of curiosity and anxiousness to work things out when they can not understand some things. In this case, humans often look into reality and think to themselves how does all these things exist ; the world, the beauty, the life, the shapes, the forms, the colors, etc. They cannot comprehend how they exists and assumed there must be a higher power somewhere that created them all, and that humans doesn't have the capacity to or can't possibly ever comprehend. A being that is said to be omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient - the Creator.

Now as you all could probably tell, I am an atheist. The reason I don't believe in a higher power is because I can not believe in something I have never seen before with my own eyes. The bible is nothing more to me than a fairy tale, a story to be told by the bonfires, gathered around by children waiting for some day they can tell the stories to other groups of kids with a side of their own fabricated part.

Plus I've seen, read, and heard of a lot of things that occurred in this world that very much contradicts the image of God.

If I have no choice but to believe in God, I would have to say I believe in God spiritually, nothing more than a feeling of comfort, liveness deep within the soul of oneself.

Alright, my bad. They are questions. Bad questions. The one about the priest doesn't even have anything to do with proving or disproving the existence of a higher power. The first questions are something that a religious, god-fearing person would ask. Of course an atheist wouldn't understand them. It is like asking a man what it feels like to have a period. He won't understand the question.

No offense intended, but using the inability to sense something in order to support the non-existence of something is not very good. We can't observe or sense that there are stars other than the ones we already know of, but we still 'know' that there are more stars than the ones we have seen. Even being able to sense something does not always mean that the senses are reliable. Crazy people don't usually think they are crazy.

A reason for something to exist? Do we really even know why some things exist? Why do the planets exist? We don't know why we exist. My being agnostic does not mean I might believe in a god, a supernatural entity (or more than one entity) that possesses all the exact traits ascribed to him/her/it by any known religion. I simply find it hard to dismiss something simply because I can't observe it. Such unfounded certainty makes me feel as though I am being too sure of myself, too cocky. I am simply saying 'I don't know for sure' because that's really all I can do. There is the chance, however slim, that there could have been or that there currently is or that there eventually will be a higher power. It does not mean that, if such a thing exists, that it will be something we have ever described in any known religion. It does not even mean that such an entity needs to be in this universe or in this dimension in order to exist.

Atheism denies the possibility that any higher power can possibly exist. In a reality known to be full of gray areas, being so certain about something we know don't fully understand seems unrealistic to me. To me, atheism is like a modern religion. Natural laws? Mathematics? Science? All these things are entirely artificial. These things require some faith to accept, not unlike religion. We've only been here for an insignificant amount of time compared to the planets and stars. To the universe, we are less than specks of dust. Really, what do we know?

...we can't answer that without fearing that we may know less that we think we do. To cope, we create systems that 'organize' the world around us so that we might seem to understand. Inconclusive results and I-don't-knows are dismissed as 'fake' or 'bad' even if they are questions we have no way of answering. Every question MUST have a definite answer. We simply can't tolerate not knowing something.


Yes they are bad. They're questions and assumptions from Christian fundamentalist. The one about the priest is an example to give you an idea why a minister of religion would do something so morally wrong as to molest children. Priests are said to answer to God so he can judge the sins that people commits, so Priest are like God's right-hand man but they still do something that I know "God" would disapprove of entirely.

"but using the inability to sense something in order to support the non-existence of something is not very good."
Your argument is a valid argument but it is not a sound argument because of vice-versa. If we do not have the ability to sense something in order to claim it's existence how can you tell me otherwise I am wrong to claim it does not exist? Especially when you claim something to exist when you yourself have no idea of its existence makes it a false declaration. Your analogy of the stars doesn't make any sense to me. Because we know that stars do exist, we can claim the possibility that there are more stars we have yet to identify.
For God, we cannot conclude that there may be one that we haven't been able to sense, because we have not been able to develop the evidence and clarify or approve the existence of a supernatural entity in the first place. No premises or false premises inference a false conclusion.

I'm asking for the reason why the object you mentioned exist is because I want to know what are its beneficial factors or disadvantages contribution to the universe. Everything that exists in this world benefits and risks the others so until you can tell me what kind of contribution this object have for the universe, it is not even worth debating about it. I am not blindly dismissing the possibility of God's existence, it's just because we have science. They have evidence to back up the theory of how stars are formed, aka when life is born. This is why I chose to believe in the Big Bang theory, because the evidences are tangible.

Yes they are artificial, but they are systems humans created to explain and comprehend the things around us and to the extent of my knowledge, it has not fail us has it?


I'm not saying that a higher power must exist. I am simply saying that we ought not to be so sure of ourselves and the artificial constructs we are so proud of. Saying something exists even if you have no idea where or when it existed still does not detract from the truth of its existence. Intent does not make something true or false, facts do.

I'm asking for the reason why the object you mentioned exist is because I want to know what are its beneficial factors or disadvantages contribution to the universe. Everything that exists in this world benefits and risks the others so until you can tell me what kind of contribution this object have for the universe, it is not even worth debating about it.

What? So if we cannot determine or know something's worth or purpose, it is not worth debating about? If we don't know the worth of something, how do we deem it worthless and not a valid topic of debate? The wording used here makes it seem as though unmeasurable worth and unknown purpose are being equated with worthlessness. Our feelings have worth that cannot be measured. I am certain they are not worthless.

Admitting we don't know something and never will is a bad thing? This seems to solidify the fact that we can't tolerate not knowing and will dismiss unanswerable questions or fabricate our own answers. Why can we not just take something, regard its inability for us to know about it, and accept that we can't know about it?


Yes they are artificial, but they are systems humans created to explain and comprehend the things around us and to the extent of my knowledge, it has not fail us has it?

We only understand them because they tell is what we want to know on OUR terms. Just like how it is impossible to completely understand being someone else because you can't even know what it is like to be that person from that person's perspective (the most we can do is attempt to understand that person's experiences from OUR OWN perspective), there will be things we cannot completely understand or put into words. These unexpressable unknowns DO exist. Because they exist, is it not unreasonable to deduce that more of them must exist? I'm sure you also know that we have also yet to find or create anything that is invincible, indestructible, all-knowing, perfect, all-encompassing, etc. Science is just a system we have created. It has taken the place of religion in explaining natural phenomenon. How can we claim it is perfect and will not fail us? To a devout believer, there is evidence of a god or of gods.



I understand what you're trying to say but I am not speaking in general, I am speaking for myself that I can not accept a higher power without seeing one with my own eyes. You never see any signs of this higher power yourself, you only witnessed it with your ears. You heard it from someone else who happens to hear it from someone else and so on and so forth. I believe the person or people who started all this was either trying to gain popularity, money, power, or just for moral reasoning.

That is not what I'm trying to say at all. You are using a fallacy here, distorting what I'm trying to say by making it look like it's bad. Yes some things in this world can not be measured or able to put a value on but it doesn't mean it's worthless and again, it's not what I'm trying to say at all. I just can't put it into words that makes it more easy to understand.

"Because they exist, is it not unreasonable to deduce that more of them must exist?"

Because some of them exist, it will not be faulty if you think more of them exist even if they might not, like your analogy of the stars. But saying something exists without knowing if any exists AT ALL is fatuous.

"Science is just a system we have created. It has taken the place of religion in explaining natural phenomenon. How can we claim it is perfect and will not fail us? To a devout believer, there is evidence of a god or of gods"

No it's not that science has taken the place of religion in explaining natural phenomenon, that would imply that science is an alternative option. I would say that science is more like the complete opposite, it defies religion. Science is just a system we created, but we created it to explain and understand the things that already existed. It's not like the things around us only appeared after we thought of the concept of science. "How can we claim it is perfect and will not fail us?" Well that is why we do not conclude the things in the blink of an eye. Scientist take ages to try to understand these phenomenon. They try to experiment with it themselves. I am not in anyway saying science is perfect and will not fail it, I am saying it has not fail us. I mean, oppose to the theory of an invisible entity floating around causing all these phenomenon, which one do you believe in more?

And like the guy before me asked ; If God created the universe who created God? Everything has to come from something they say, so where did God come from? If God existed by himself how can it be wrong to think that maybe the universe also exists by itself? How about the possibility that maybe life also exists by itself? These two actually makes more sense then the theory of God's existence because they have at least 100 times the evidences..


Like science, many religions also help explain things that already exist. A belief in a god or in many gods is not necessary for a religion to be. A religion is just a system of beliefs that governs morals and spirituality. Trusting in the validity of science does not mean one cannot be religious, so it's not a complete opposite. Sort of like how acknowledging that you have choices but choosing not to make one is still a choice. The complete opposite is simply not having a choice at all.

It just seems to me that a lot of people focus on Christianity as the main religion and label themselves atheists if they are not Christian, discounting many of the lesser-known religions.

I guess I do see where you're coming from, though. It's a lot easier to accept things that we have touched upon with our own bodily senses, whether they are real or imaginary.
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Posted 8/17/12
I generally have no problem with faith. Believe what you want don't shove on me.

The above applies as much to the hardcore Atheist who goes around trying to convince others that there is nothing beyond our 5 senses and accrued knowledge as it does to anyone whose holy book tells them to oppress those who don't subscribe to said book's tenet's.

While I have no problem with faith. I do generally have a problem with most religions since often they are human constructs which abuse people's faith and turn it into a tool to oppress others. The faithful doing abandoning all responsibility for their actions as they obey someone who's claims to the ear of a higher power amount to "because I say so". And the doubtful punished for questioning this regime.
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Posted 8/18/12

Bazak wrote:


shuyi000 wrote:

There is no evidence of a god, that is a fact...
The law of physics can exist from nothing, that is a fact.
You can get life from non-living things, that is a fact.

To believe in something you need evidence, not faith...!


>.> ..... you want proof? you say there is no evidence and that its a fact. without i would guess ever reviewing and trying to disprove the evidence that has been gathered (its rather massive).

secondly no, thats what you believe Proverbs 18:13 He that answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame unto him. there is just as much if not more support for the position that it didnt.

thirdly helllll no. entropy for one thing and the origin of information problem are two massive blocks to evolution. the statistics on the likelihood of evolution are so unlikely as to literally be considered by the scientific community absurd the number is larger than the suppose amount of seconds the universe is old (or maybe it was minutes or some such i forget hehe.

the faith is just for the fact that god usualy wont provide direct proof. and faith in his perfection and to do what he says.


Provide one evidence of your god... thanks
The law of physics does allow the universe to be created from nothing...
I'm not talking about entropy, in fact life cause local entropy to decrease..... anyway i'm talking about Abiogenesis go look it up.

The faith of you believe in something without prove is stupid... try telling that to a judge.
Tell him that you believe that he didn't commit the crime because you've faith in him...
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Posted 8/18/12

ColourMeAngel wrote:


shuyi000 wrote:


Billythesquid wrote:

I fall into the "Spiritual - not religious" category.


That's equally lame.... serious!



O.O ElOhEl?


Yeah, basically it just make people goes......LOLOLOLOLOLOL'd
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Posted 8/21/12 , edited 8/21/12

SoTa_PoP wrote:

lol sorry Bazak, the first comment was indeed for you, but the rest was a general comment for everyone else.

Also: http://www.snowboardingforum.com/political-wilderness/32797-infographic-showing-contradictions-bible.html
No contradictions, eh?


well i must admit i dont know the bible word for word (very few people ever have or will in this life). i will get back to you after researching this. (when i have time its a lot of material).

EDIT: of the two i have looked up atm they simply appear to be chronological problems and problems of numbers. small things that in all honesty could easily be due to either the statements being true at the time they were written (im not a bible scholar or a historian so i cant find these things out in a day without asking someone.) or were due to the writer having the wrong information on the numbers (which i would find a bit troubling though not impossible. there is far too much right for even 100 of these sorts of things to call the bible in to question. (prophecys and other things for the other things read cosmic codes by chuck missler cuz thats a thick book of info). however these problems arent really in the catgory of god being wrong but in the category of god or clerical error possibly. i wish i could read hebrew and greek and the other languages the bible was written in.

but thank you i now have something new to study and understand i wouldnt expect a reply from me on this matter unless your fond of the idea of waiting a few years lol.

also i am greatfull that you are not hostile and willing to hold an actual conversation i would be glad to speak with you on such things any time.
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Posted 8/21/12

AshRandom wrote:


Bazak wrote:


AshRandom wrote:


Bazak wrote:
i wonder how much you know of quantum physics and the statistics on the likelihood of the big bang theory

Not my field of expertise, but with guidance I can probably handle most of the math for it.

Not to change the subject but.... Anyone else ever noticed how religious people claim knowledge of things they cannot know (revelation)?

Here's a question:

Why is it that only scientists know the secret formula? Priests and prophets didn't give us the chemical formula for Teflon, or DNA. If cleanliness is next to godliness, then why is it that only chemists discover new kinds of soap? The chemical formula for every kind of soap has technically always existed, even in a universe where the atoms required for them had yet to be formed, so why didn't God whisper these formula into any of these charlatan's ears? Why doesn't he do it today? There are plenty of soaps left which science hasn't found yet.

If you think God's word comes from truthful revelations, then why are you listening to priests and prophets? Listen to scientists! If that's how it works then we're the ones who God actually talks to, he whispers all the secret formulas into our ears when we sleep at night. That's why we know all of them, and the other side knows none of them. We know real and powerful truths about the universe and if you don't believe us, we'll show you the power atomic. And you'll be so impressed you'll put it in every stupid action movie for the next ten thousand years. Oh wait, we already did that... See, this is what I'm talking about, religious types never hear about anything cool. I think the evidence proves they're listening to the wrong hot-line. It's just nothing but, "hey, stop touching your crotch!" and "I can see you sinning down there..."


really? i dont get why you avoid my whole post and focus on that bit.

next because that wasnt their calling in life, their calling was service to the lord and spreading his word. next many of the greatest discoverys of history and greatest scientists of history were christian and found the clue that led them to their discovery's in the bible. (i will provide examples in an edit later)

secondly god doesnt tend to act that way, if he simply gave us all the answers we would become lazy. next from the way your talking i would think your knowledge of Christianity comes from Catholicism. which has twisted it around so much its hardly recognizable anymore. so again why do you simply insult me and provide no evidence for your claims? and those last bits >.> so far as i know the bible doesnt actualy condemn the first one (could be wrong on that one) second one, well cmon there are always arses that cling to something to try and feel superior the bible doesnt teach that it teaches we are all equaly screwed up and should help one another which that arrogant attitude does nothing to help.(let alone spread gods word which is one more reason why the bible condemns it. i mean look at the pharisee's).


Unlimited nonsense. You don't even seem to realize it's all a work of fiction.

As for what the bible condemns, it doesn't condemn slavery, or genocide. In fact it endorses them repeatedly. Through the centuries, your book of salacious hate-speech has lead to an unimaginable amount of needless human suffering. To continue to endorse the bible is unethical and immoral. To claim that there are "good parts" or, "moral lessons" of the bible amid the sea of blood, bigotry and tyranny is no different from endorsing Mein Kampf, they both have "good parts" and "moral lessons" plus they both inexcusably try justify genocide and human slavery. It's revolting.


ok first. the slavery and genocide, that is situational and a whole debate and discussion in and of itself. first off what do you call a prisoner for life who works for his food? i would call that a slave and im perfectly fine with criminals going to prison for what they have done and never being let free. honestly slavery isnt something i know the most about. next there is indentured servitude which is in my opinion fine. you work for a set amount of time and are given food and board and you get whatever you bought with ur time at the end of your work time and are freed. again something i have no problem with. there are some other bits but i am unsure of them and havent really looked into them.

as for genocide. yes, there are many arguments that can be made here but first off im just gonna say i support the death penalty and if you think thats wrong then were just gonna disagree here no matter what. next the bible (and me) only condemn murder (unjustified killing). god gives us many reasons for the deaths in the bible. first off death from a biblical perspective is just sleep, even a justified death is a sad thing that we should all mourn (loss of gift of life an chance to use it and chance to come to god).
as for genocide i liken it to the death penalty, you do something bad enough and big enough you lose your right to live so as to protect others from you etc.

as for the rest im sorry but those are statements as if what you say is fact not arguments for why you are right. from your point of view you may think those things of the bible but untill you bring up specifics i cannot debate you and your argument is a very poor one. that which god does in the bible is completely moral and justified. there i just made a statement as valid as the ones you made. bring facts or lets just stop this debate.
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i wish i could say im catholic but im not, when i think i religon i feel its there to explain the unexplainable. The bible is just to far fetched for me to make that leap of faith. Also the comforts of beleif are also true ,were you feel their is a being watching over us can bring a happy thought into are heads.
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Posted 8/21/12

sevink wrote:


Bazak wrote:


SoTa_PoP wrote:


sevink wrote:

I'd just like to point out as a History major who has studied the time era. There is tons of historical evidence that the first Christians were not Catholic rather, they were non sanctioned believers that followed specific teachings and gospels in their own homes. They worshiped privately, preached pacifism, and most did not want a unified Christian church.

When the Catholic church was established, they then started to pick and choose which gospels were and were not "worship worthy". So from the very start the Catholic church was already distorting Jesus's teachings.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

Edit: As someone who was raised by a man with a Theology PhD degree from Cambridge (if you are educated you know how truly impressive that is) I just want people to be aware of a few things.

1.The bible is full of gospels, meaning it is written by many many different people. Not one single person wrote it, so yes, there are bound to be contradictions.

2.The book is not to be read and taken literal or as fact. A lot of the way it was written was to help try and explain our universe while also teaching a moral and ethical lesson.

3.As Science progresses there are tons of parts of the bible that are no longer relevant or correct. And just because of this, doesn't prove the entire book to be right or wrong. The moral and ethical teachings are still very important and relevant.

4.The problem with Religion is not Religion it self, its the majority of people who follow it blindly. Religion is an easy answer for a lot of uneducated people who don't want to think. They would rather just believe everything they read in a Book and not be forced into thinking for their own, which directly goes against what I believe Religion to be.

5.Religion is a GREAT thing that has been used horribly. Does every single person NEED Religion? No of course not, some people are able to create and find a morally good, way to live without ever needing to resort to Religion to teach them how.

6.Religion is different for every single person, so for you judge an entire group of people is just as moronic as the extremest that want to keep Gay marriage illegal. I do not blame the whole for the actions of extremists. The same way I do not fear or blame Islam for 9/11 or the terrorists that have killed so many. (We should not blame the gun that kills, rather the shooter)


^Everyone should just read this


i agree there is much good information here (notably everything above the edit.)
secondly it is written by many differnt people in the same way that a single book is written by many different type writers and authored by one person. next there are no contradictions that i have not seen resolved when using a literal translation that havent been caused by allegory of a different part of scripture (because they didnt want to believe it) and trying to say one bit says something different than what it says.

next yes it is.

three, not true provide an example.

four i would have to say no its when people take on line of the bible and ignore what the rest says that problems occur. next i would say dont follow blindly as well the bible can be proven.

the problem is a bunch of people got together and perverted what is said in the bible for their own use (and even tried to allegorize bits of it when the politicians werent happy with what they were preaching. such as jesus returning and casting down all rulers and reigning as our king.)

six. i dont judge them god does. neither do i hate them or act cruely to them god loves homosexuals just as much as any of us and hates their sins just as much as he hates mine.



1. The book is made up of gospels. You can say one person wrote it if you consider taking all the gospels and putting it into a single Book as "writing" it. To me, its like someone making a collection of short stories and putting them together, and editing them together. That to me is not writing, that's being an editor.

2.I choose to believe my grandfather who was a Theology professor for 25 years at the University of Cincinnati, who had a PhD from Cambridge, and was also a Minister for 25 years would have a level of expertise in Religion I will never have. I choose to believe him, and his accrued knowledge through life. So I'm sorry random internet man, I will adamantly disagree with you on this point.

3. How about how the world is only 5000 years old? We know from Geology beyond a matter of a doubt the Earth is older than that. There is an example of the Bible being completely wrong where Science has proven otherwise. Or how about Evolution, if you read the Bible as literal (like you believe) then we all are from 1 man and 1 women. The theory of Evolution has tons of scientific evidence, and here in his own words Pope John Paul II
"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.... Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."[31]


4.I agree with you saying a lot of people pick one line and ignore what the actual message is. You are just proving my point that for a lot of people, they use religion as a think crutch.

5. So you agree modern Christianity is perverted and no longer the original teachings of Jesus? Do you belong to a Church? What Church doesn't distort his teachings? Or use for their own gain.

6. You personally may not judge, but the vast majority of Christians I have run into are just that. Judgmental beyond belief, they think they are superior to heathens who don't listen to Gods word. Its just another example of the hypocrisy of many Christians. Are all of them this way? OF COURSE NOT, when I speak, I can only speak from my knowledge, and the people I've met, I recognize not all Christians are this way, or even the majority, I can only say the majority I've met personally.


first one i will answer is number five. that is harvest christian fellowship. (google harvest.org) calvary chapel affiliate churches are what i go to.

1. actually no the books haven't been edited (at the very least there is no proof of that and they interlink in ways that are nigh absurd statistically to have happened randomly and would have taken more than a lifetime and still not linked every book. read cosmic codes by chuck missler if you want to see where im coming from its a very in depth discussion that and im not a cryptographer (hope that's the right word lol)

2. fair enough. i would only say that no one person knows everything and leave it at that as i do not know your father and therefore have no ability to comment.

3.that depends first there is the fact that carbon dating is not a scientifically accurate tool (some scientists came up with what they think but have no proof the levels of that carbon isotope were, second that isotope for it to work as a accurate measuring tool would have had to be evenly distributed through all matter and never ever move around and change concentrations.) next there is scientific evidence for the earth and other planets being that young (mostly ignored and laughed at without even trying to disprove it just as they did when a man proposed that light had a speed and wasnt instant). honestly the bit about how that works is something i have neglected to research atm. next you have the bits that get a bit confusing.first off time is a physical property. there is a theory that from gods perspective it was seven days (relativity) but from the perspective of say the matter of the universe it was 15 billion or so years. (i think you would enjoy watching a video on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDqrSTCcmA its 1 hour 43 min so bring popcorn, will sum up a lot of my views). as for evolution i agree it does not conflict with god but i do not believe in the theory there are far too many holes and i have seen all evidence for it shredded (read Evolution: the fossils still say NO! for my viewpoint). sry for refering you to these books etc instead of making the arguments myself, im just feeling a bit lazy and dont want to write out 3 or 4 posts hehe.

4. i agree the bible tells us we are to read it and meditate on gods word day and night (in Hebrew the concept of meditation is to think on a subject essentially. not empty your mind etc.) and to seek understanding.

6. i agree, a true christian does not judge. a popular saying amongst Christians (at least ones i know) hate the sin not the sinner. we are supposed to love everyone even our enemy's and many so called Christians (or people who call themselves christian) do not do this. and still even true christians lose sight of this at times (i know i have before. it happens to the best of us getting frustrated and stupidly thinking of the person we are talking to as the enemy when in fact the enemy of Christians is deception and lies. (and ultimately the great deceiver satan). i sincerely hope you meet some Christians who truly try to be representatives of what we are supposed to be.

i enjoy speaking with you on this you are not hostile like some i have spoken with.
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Posted 8/21/12

alucard275 wrote:

I can't believe in any kind of religion, christianity in particular. They're always trying to convert us non-believers. The thing that gets me is that their concept of an "all-loving god" is a joke.

Want to get a christian off your back? Ask them this and demand nothing less than a straight answer: "why does god let bad things happen to good people?" It's a logic bomb for christians. There's no answer at all. Nobody has ever been able to answer this straight up.

I put this challenge out there for all the christians on this topic. Give me a straight answer as to why bad things happen to good people.


http://www.harvest.org/knowgod/frequently-asked-questions.html#why_god_allows_suffering

i have seen that answered many times. this link is only part of the answer you shud read the whole FAQ for a complete answer.

first off the world is damaged sin has entered into this world and it is now defective we are defective and not the way god made man originally. the answer you seek requires much explanation and i can only give so much as ive just replied to several fairly deep posts and am a bit weary. but ill do my best to remember the wording. the argument is that the world is flawed as are we and that we have free will god will not force himself on us we have to choose him. he wont help us if we refuse his help. as for bad things happening to good people? well that depends first off someone who believes in him and receives his help will have difficulties in life still as challenges to help us grow for us to overcome. in all honestly no human is good (using god as the standard and not humans) because we all sin and make mistakes and hurt people and act selfishly. but lets look at it using humans as the standard. first free will he would have to violate someones free will. there is more but thats about all my memory wants to cough up of that argument at the moment i sincerely apologize for not being able to give it all to you myself right now.
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Posted 8/21/12
I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe He is the savior of the world and that He is the Son of the one and only true God.

Why? There are a lot of reasons.

In my heart, I know it is something I will never stop trusting. I've felt God's peace come over me many times when nothing else could touch the pain or depression I was feeling. When nothing else could calm the anxiety, He did. People have prayed for me and said things that they heard from God - things that touched really sensitive areas in my heart and made me cry. But I don't want you to think this is just me being emotional. So please, keep reading.

I've seen God's power change the lives of people I know. My mom is one of them. She used to be such an angry person but she's gotten so much more kind since she's really started to follow Jesus. The Word of God inspires toward goodness. It challenges. God heals! He healed a little girl in my church of serious burns. There have been countless stories of God healing people even today. He does miracles even today.

As for science, logical reasoning, etc. - there is quite a bit of evidence that supports the Christian faith. I'm not the best in this area just because science is not a big interest of mine. It's not my main reason for believing, you might say. But there is logical and historical evidence. Though a bit dated, check out books like The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. There are scientists who are Christians and believe science supports Christianity.

In the end, I think this verse from Romans 1 is true, if we're all really honest with ourselves - "...That which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness, because God [Himself] has shown it to them. For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification]."

God loves you. He created you. If you want to talk to me about it, please feel free to send a message. I don't like to argue about faith, because I feel neither side ever gives an inch through arguing, but if you want to hear, I do want to tell you about Jesus. He's the best hope in this life and the next. He will be the most faithful one you ever meet. No matter what you've done or who you are, you're not too far gone for God to bring you back to life.
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Posted 8/21/12


I will stray off-topic and say that I think your hairstyle is pretty cute.

Other than that, I respectfully disagree with most of your post, but I won't try to change your way of thinking. We need some diversity in life anyway.
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19 / M / sleep
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Posted 8/21/12
Religion was or still is a way for others to manipulate and enslaves people into believing pure nonsense.

Source? your m- o - m-
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Posted 8/21/12
God gave man free will, and it was man's decision to allow sin and bring evil into the world, not God's. If God were to stop all the evil in the world then he would be violating our free will. He doesn't want us to be robots that have no choice to do good, he wants us to make a choice, serve him or live for the world.

Hope this answers your question! (If not feel free to ask me anything)
toxxin 
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Posted 8/21/12
I'm not religious because I wasn't raised like that. My family on my dads side is very religious and go to church every sunday and I have noticed a certain closed-mindedness from almost all of them that I don't see on the other side of the family which aren't religious in the least. I prefer that I keep my mind open so I can better understand people from different walks of life without having any preconcieved predjudices because they're not of the same religious circle.
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