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Post Reply are you religious? if so, why?
Erikku 
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Posted 4/26/13

Atheyon wrote:

At some level or another, everyone has faith. Most have faith in the scientific method. And while this may seem like a backwards statement, it really isn't as it's impossible to prove that the scientific method actually works without using another methodology which also cannot be proved without using another methodology. Even if one is to cite that the scientifit method works because it time and time again demonstrates things unfailingly. But using something to prove itself is circular reasoning. This doesn't eliminate the neccesity of having faith in the scienctific method as, well, it's impossible to prove without using circular reasoning.

Now at the same time, a blind faith in the scientific method is certainly not bad one. The scientific method is perhaps the single most amazing thing to happen to humanity as it does actually work to effectively explain natural phenomena around us.

Question everything; even the questioning

There are several problems with what you just said there. Having reasonable expectations based on evidence is not faith. The scientific method is not circular reasoning. If anything religion is for example saying something is true because it is in the bible and the bible is one hundred percent true is circular reasoning.
Erikku 
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Posted 4/26/13

Atheyon wrote:


luvsailoromance wrote:

I fully believe in Jesus Christ. I have met atheists. They are friendly towards me until they find out i believe in Jesus Christ & then take out everything on me.

You don't want to accept Christ I won't force you. I won't blame all atheist based on the actions of the few(all those I have met) who took their frustrations out on me.


Yeah I have this problem too. Somehow beliveing in Christ gives the impression, at least to some atheists, that I'm a complete idiot.

I don't think believing in christ makes you a idiot. I can see how it can lead people to think so because atheist's like my self rely on evidence to conduct what we believe. I think they view it as you are believing in something without evidence which is your own choice. I am not out to make religion illegal now i think religion is bad but it needs to be done via reason and logic not legislation.

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Posted 4/26/13

Erikku wrote:

Christians seem to think most atheists hate god and that's why they are atheist.

Hmm, actually I think most Christians think atheists are atheists because they don't believe He exists, not because they hate Him. I think if most atheists hated God, then they would have to admit that He exists in the first place.
Erikku 
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Posted 4/26/13

suikojay wrote:


Erikku wrote:

Christians seem to think most atheists hate god and that's why they are atheist.

Hmm, actually I think most Christians think atheists are atheists because they don't believe He exists, not because they hate Him. I think if most atheists hated God, then they would have to admit that He exists in the first place.

I agree with that what i should have said is almost every christian i have met thought that i did not believe because i had a bad experience with church or that i hated god. Your logic is sound and i agree i should have explained it further.

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Posted 4/26/13

Erikku wrote:


Atheyon wrote:


luvsailoromance wrote:

I fully believe in Jesus Christ. I have met atheists. They are friendly towards me until they find out i believe in Jesus Christ & then take out everything on me.

You don't want to accept Christ I won't force you. I won't blame all atheist based on the actions of the few(all those I have met) who took their frustrations out on me.


Yeah I have this problem too. Somehow beliveing in Christ gives the impression, at least to some atheists, that I'm a complete idiot.

I don't think believing in christ makes you a idiot. I can see how it can lead people to think so because atheist's like my self rely on evidence to conduct what we believe. I think they view it as you are believing in something without evidence which is your own choice. I am not out to make religion illegal now i think religion is bad but it needs to be done via reason and logic not legislation.



Personally I don't think it should be taken away. not by legislation or anyone else. Centuries ago people believed the world was flat adn they were punished and called names, etc. Centuries ago people believed we were alone in the world and the moon was made up of cheese. Others believed the moon was a planet. A little over fifty years ago people believed birth control would stop diseases and prevent birth when young women were dying in childbirth. People also believed leeches helps with headaches and failing health.

If Christ gives people hope why take it away? I think people should be allowed to believe what they want to believe.
Erikku 
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Posted 4/26/13

luvsailoromance wrote:


Erikku wrote:


Atheyon wrote:


luvsailoromance wrote:

I fully believe in Jesus Christ. I have met atheists. They are friendly towards me until they find out i believe in Jesus Christ & then take out everything on me.

You don't want to accept Christ I won't force you. I won't blame all atheist based on the actions of the few(all those I have met) who took their frustrations out on me.


Yeah I have this problem too. Somehow beliveing in Christ gives the impression, at least to some atheists, that I'm a complete idiot.

I don't think believing in christ makes you a idiot. I can see how it can lead people to think so because atheist's like my self rely on evidence to conduct what we believe. I think they view it as you are believing in something without evidence which is your own choice. I am not out to make religion illegal now i think religion is bad but it needs to be done via reason and logic not legislation.



Personally I don't think it should be taken away. not by legislation or anyone else. Centuries ago people believed the world was flat adn they were punished and called names, etc. Centuries ago people believed we were alone in the world and the moon was made up of cheese. Others believed the moon was a planet. A little over fifty years ago people believed birth control would stop diseases and prevent birth when young women were dying in childbirth. People also believed leeches helps with headaches and failing health.

If Christ gives people hope why take it away? I think people should be allowed to believe what they want to believe.

I did not say force people to stop believing i said i hope religion goes away via reason not forcefully. How does it give people hope? and just as much hope it gives people it oppresses people as well.
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Posted 4/26/13 , edited 5/9/13

Erikku wrote:

If anything religion is for example saying something is true because it is in the bible and the bible is one hundred percent true is circular reasoning.

Actually, before the Bible even came out (in the 5th century), Christianity was spread by word of mouth, by the bishops and disciples of Christ. They didn't have a Bible, instead what they had were numerous testimonies that Christ had risen from the dead and that everything that Christ spoke of and taught, were true.
I'm curious, do u believe that there was a man named Jesus that walked the Earth?
Erikku 
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Posted 4/26/13

suikojay wrote:


Erikku wrote:

If anything religion is for example saying something is true because it is in the bible and the bible is one hundred percent true is circular reasoning.

Actually, before the Bible even came out (in the 5th century), Christianity was spread by word of mouth, by the bishops and disciples of Christ. They didn't have a Bible, instead what they had was numerous testimonies that Christ had risen from the dead and that everything that Christ spoke of and taught, was true.
I'm curious, do u believe that there was a man named Jesus that walked the Earth?

No i do not believe in Jesus. How do you know everything is true if it was spread by mouth before it was written down? I can tell a story and by the time it gets to a few other people it is often far different than what happened.
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Posted 4/26/13
I don't see why anyone cares about the question. It is a moot topic. Sort of like asking my opinion is about my favorite color that I've never seen. I'd rather focus on knowledge that I can attain.

If god(s) should exist, I doubt any mainstream religion has insight on how to understand them. If I were god, I would care more about the character and actions of a person as opposed to acceptance, belief, and worship of myself. The latter are obviously mechanisms to support the business of religion. Obviously God doesn't care about that crap either otherwise he would be dropping his big ego in our face on a daily basis. But the only people who do that is the 700 club.
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I believe in Jesus Christ that he is my lord and savior. The Bible is God's word to us and He brought us scripture so that we can learn to have a relationship with God. It is misunderstood that God forces you to be a good person, primarily because people think like that, but God truly loves you and wants to have a relationship with you. As Jesus Christ said, "Pray then like this:“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. (Matthew 6:9-13) Jesus Christ said to call God our Father. God wants to mold us into the person through trials and tests that we face in our lives. I just want to say that the bible has been used in the court system the U.S. has now, even though you may say that is not the case, it was the case back then. Even if you think that the Bible is 100% right, you should at least agree with me that some are right such as do not commit adultery and do not commit murder. Also the Bible has not been proven wrong, one might think it is wrong, but it is not. The Bible incorporates facts such as the Tower of Babel, the stories of the prophets, Jesus Christ and his 12 disciples and how one should live their life. Primarily, sin destroyed our fellowship of God and it is also something that hurts others as well, but when you start leading a holy life, you are reflecting what God wants you to do. I'm sure people got hurt from lies and other sins that are affecting our lives, but Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. So that we may not take the burden of sin, we were forgiven for our sins. The only way to have God forgive our sins is through prayer, which is by confessing our sins, thanking God that Christ died for our sins, and the biggest part is repentance(changing your life basically do not follow your sin anymore). I know there are so many sins in our lives that we do not know of, but we must reflect on the Bible to guide us in the right direction. [You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.] (Galatians 5:13-26)
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Posted 4/26/13 , edited 4/26/13

Erikku wrote:

No i do not believe in Jesus. How do you know everything is true if it was spread by mouth before it was written down? I can tell a story and by the time it gets to a few other people it is often far different than what happened.

When you say u don't believe in Jesus, do u mean that u don't think he actually existed as a person? Or that u don't believe he was anything but an ordinary man?
There are actually secular writers such as Josephus and Pliny the Younger (and others) who left evidence of Jesus’ existence (they lived around Jesus's time). If u haven't read their writings, I would highly recommend it as they make for a good read and support the validity, at the very least, that Jesus was a man that walked the Earth, and that Christianity was derived from Him.
Besides them, there are many writers of the early Church fathers (from 1st century onward that corroborate with the existence of Christ and Christianity): Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Clement, etc.
Erikku 
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Posted 4/26/13

suikojay wrote:


Erikku wrote:

No i do not believe in Jesus. How do you know everything is true if it was spread by mouth before it was written down? I can tell a story and by the time it gets to a few other people it is often far different than what happened.

When you say u don't believe in Jesus, do u mean that u don't think he actually existed as a person? Or that u don't believe he was anything but an ordinary man?
There are actually secular writers such as Josephus and Pliny the Younger (and others) who left evidence of Jesus’ existence (they lived around Jesus's time). If u haven't read their writings, I would highly recommend it as they make for a good read and support the validity, at the very least, that Jesus was a man that walked the Earth, and that Christianity was derived from Him.
Besides them, there are many writers of the early Church fathers (from 1st century onward that corroborate with the existence of Christ and Christianity): Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, Clement, etc.

I don't believed he existed at all and Josephus' birth was in 37 C.E which is after Jesus supposed crucifixction. Josephus also wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E which was after the gospels were written. Pliney was born in 62 C.E. which also puts him out of being a eye witness to Jesus. He also states he got his information from Christian followers. At most you can label them as hearsay.
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Posted 4/26/13 , edited 4/26/13

Erikku wrote:

I don't believed he existed at all and Josephus' birth was in 37 C.E which is after Jesus supposed crucifixction. Josephus also wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E which was after the gospels were written. Pliney was born in 62 C.E. which also puts him out of being a eye witness to Jesus. He also states he got his information from Christian followers. At most you can label them as hearsay.

If u don't believe Jesus existed at all, how could there have been so many writings about him, and about Christianity from 1st century onward? Secular and non-secular? To me, one of the most important things to remember were how many martyrs there were after the Roman emperor Nero decided to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64. The Roman historian Tacitus wrote about this in 64AD. How could so many people die for something that they didn't believe in? Especially the apostles, all of them (w/the exception of John the Beloved) were martyred, some in rather painful ways like being skinned alive, crucified upside down, etc. (and if u ask me, if there was any shred of doubt in them, I don't see how all of them, minus 1, could go through w/out denying Christ). I mean, who dies for something that they don't genuinely believe in? I know I wouldn't. So at the very least, u have these guys and the numerous other martyrs that refused to deny Christ. You had all these people dieing gruesome deaths for quite some time, until of course, the Edict of Milan in 313 by Constantine.



Erikku 
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Posted 4/27/13 , edited 4/27/13

suikojay wrote:


Erikku wrote:

I don't believed he existed at all and Josephus' birth was in 37 C.E which is after Jesus supposed crucifixction. Josephus also wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E which was after the gospels were written. Pliney was born in 62 C.E. which also puts him out of being a eye witness to Jesus. He also states he got his information from Christian followers. At most you can label them as hearsay.

If u don't believe Jesus existed at all, how could there have been so many writings about him, and about Christianity from 1st century onward? Secular and non-secular? To me, one of the most important things to remember were how many martyrs there were after the Roman emperor Nero decided to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64. The Roman historian Tacitus wrote about this in 64AD. How could so many people die for something that they didn't believe in? Especially the apostles, all of them (w/the exception of John the Beloved) were martyred, some in rather painful ways like being skinned alive, crucified upside down, etc. (and if u ask me, if there was any shred of doubt in them, I don't see how all of them, minus 1, could go through w/out denying Christ). I mean, who dies for something that they don't genuinely believe in? I know I wouldn't. So at the very least, u have these guys and the numerous other martyrs that refused to deny Christ. You had all these people dieing gruesome deaths for quite some time, until of course, the Edict of Milan in 313 by Constantine.





The people you are stating did not live around Jesus time. That is not evidence of his existence like i said writings after jesus life is nothing more than hearsay. Using martyrs as a proof of a religion is terrible evidence. Are you stating because they died for Christianity then Jesus must of existed? There have been several cults that have committed mass suicide for what they believe does that also make what the believe true? There is also no real evidence that Nero persecuted Christians for the great fire and there is no real evidence for christians being persecuted until at least 97 CE. You state that many writers wrote about jesus but that does not make his existence fact. I find it odd that if jesus did exist and a god would want to convey that why would he rely on other people writing about what he did? It would make much more sense for a god to write from a first person view instead on relying on people to spread your message by word of mouth and then have it written down several decades later. A all knowing god would know this before hand but no he relies on languages that die and change over time and mistranslations to get get his message across.
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Posted 4/27/13 , edited 5/9/13

Erikku wrote:

The people you are stating did not live around Jesus time. That is not evidence of his existence like i said writings after jesus life is nothing more than hearsay. Using martyrs as a proof of a religion is terrible evidence. Are you stating because they died for Christianity then Jesus must of existed? There have been several cults that have committed mass suicide for what they believe does that also make what the believe true? There is also no real evidence that Nero persecuted Christians for the great fire and there is no real evidence for christians being persecuted until at least 97 CE.

The apostles lived during Jesus's time, so I don't think the letters that they wrote count as nothing. And people whom they taught, also wrote. Anyway, people can write things down after a person dies, especially if that person exemplified something worth telling about. Also, people back then were accustomed to writing things down truthfully, as opposed to today. If people from back then, came to life and saw that we don't necessarily trust the writings of others, they would be appalled. It was a much different time than from what it is now. Now I'm not saying that this means that all writings from back then are true, but I think this is good info to know when looking back at the history of the early Church, because I don't think it's wise to just dismiss every writing from prominent people of the past, especially when many writings seem to corroborate with other writings.

Also, I don't think, necessarily, using martyrs as a type of evidence is terrible evidence, when one considers the sheer number of them. And no, I'm not saying that the amount of martyrs there were equals 100% proof. As I said before, nobody dies for something that they don't genuinely believe in (I'm sure u can agree w/that), and for as many people that had died and were persecuted, I'd say it should, at the very least, get a person to wonder about how numerous people could remain steadfast in their faith even as they were fed to the lions, etc.

And yes, there have been "cults" that have existed before Jesus's time, and after, but what have become of those cults? None of them have stuck around like Christianity has for 2000 years. To me, that's almost like a miracle in it of itself, considering all the persecutions in the first few centuries.


Erikku wrote:

I find it odd that if jesus did exist and a god would want to convey that why would he rely on other people writing about what he did? It would make much more sense for a god to write from a first person view instead on relying on people to spread your message by word of mouth and then have it written down several decades later. A all knowing god would know this before hand but no he relies on languages that die and change over time and mistranslations to get get his message across.

Yes, as far as we know, Jesus never told anyone to write anything down. As far as we know, the apostles were just told to go forth and preach to all creation. But do u think even if Jesus did write things down in 1st person, people today wouldn't question it? I think people would, as it's just our nature to question the authenticity of everything. Personally, I believe back then (and even now, but more-so back then), Christ wanted us to believe in Him by hearing the Gospel, and not so much by reading it (there was no Bible anyway till the 5th century). He wanted people that believed with their whole hearts to preach, and not to just hand out pamphlets or something to have people read. Put simply, to hear something from someone speaking genuinely from the heart has much more power to it than by simply reading something. And I'm sure God knows this about us. Now I hate to quote scripture right now, but there is a passage (Romans 10:17) that says, "faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" and that's one of the reasons why I think God chose the "preaching" method early on (and still is obviously used today).

Also, I think the main message of Christ has come across, in the 2 great commandments that contain the whole law of God:

1)Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength;
2)Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

That pretty much sums up the Gospel right there. Of course, different interpretations have come as to how one is supposed to "love," but that's why I personally believe that Christ also left us his visible Church (the bishops, priests, etc.) to help guide the people in matters of faith and morals.

Anyway, people are free to believe what they wish. But for me, when I think about all the history behind Christianity, the writers (secular and non-secular), the martyrs, etc., there's too much that seem to corroborate with one another that I find it difficult to dismiss it as something that came from out of the blue, and still manages to exist today.
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