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Post Reply are you religious? if so, why?
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16 / M / Sweden
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Posted 4/27/13
I'm a Pastafarian since a year back. I really love the discussions I have with religious people! The funniest thing on earth is to listen to religious people laughing at your religion while their religion is even more silly.
RAmen
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30 / M / Here, there, over...
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Posted 4/27/13
I think you all should be aware first what is religion than showing how naive you all are...its not enough to believe, you have to live it...
Its a loooooong topic and it takes years to understand religion fully...

To start with i suggest you read the Bible or search it online...
Genesis 1:1...In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth...

Science says that man was evolved through an atom. But who created an atom? There is no doubt that God is our creator and he said to follow his commandments.

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27 / M / Kentucky
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Posted 4/27/13
The problem with the above ideology is that people need an explanation for everything and if there is no explanation, god is the easy out solution. They can't just say something has always been, that doesn't explain it, so they assume it's been created.

IE: Space has always been, the amount of matter in space has always been or is created by some scientific process in space that is yet to be found out, life is neither created nor destroyed (it will always be present where conditions are suitable via evolution from matter on the planet).

VS

IE: space was created by god, matter was created by god, life is created and destroyed by god. Everything that can't be explained (yet) involves god.

This is why when bad things happen that no one can explain, everyone says were being judged... ... by god.

Don't get me wrong, I can't say I'm not religious but I'm very open to observation and analysis. I won't just say, there's no explanation for it so god had something to do with it. If there is a higher power, we can't ever pretend to understand him and if your going by something someone wrote in a book many years ago, you're essentially doing the same thing as some future civilization finding another book with a lot of teachings and understandings in it and calling it their "bible".
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Posted 4/27/13

masterjayson wrote:

I think you all should be aware first what is religion than showing how naive you all are...its not enough to believe, you have to live it...
Its a loooooong topic and it takes years to understand religion fully...

To start with i suggest you read the Bible or search it online...
Genesis 1:1...In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth...

Science says that man was evolved through an atom. But who created an atom? There is no doubt that God is our creator and he said to follow his commandments.



I can't tell if you're for real or just pretending for the heck of it, so I'm just going on the assumption that what you're saying is for real.

First of I don't care what the bible has to say. If a supposedly infallible creator deity wanted me to know about stuff, he could certainly do a much better job than a roughly 2000 year old book written in a language nobody speaks anymore that was constructed by people with their own purposes in mind. I don't particularly care if there was a guy called Jesus that the new testament was inspired by or if it's an amalgamation either.

secondly, science doesn't say man was evolved through an atom. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If all you mean to say is that there can't be an infinite chain of events back and there needs to have been an uncreated creator (unmoved mover whatever) then too bad, the universe isn't constricted to your narrow interpretation of how time works. Yes we haven't figured everything out about the origin of the universe, that doesn't mean you can just shove god in there and act like you do know the answer.

Still, even supposing for the sake of argument that a creator god (like the deistic one) exists. How would you know that anything attributed to that god was actually a command from that god? Aren't humans fallible to a fault when it comes to this stuff? To me it sounds like a great con scheme. Obviously there are a lot of conflicting religions in the world. They can't all be true, but they can all be false. I can't distinguish between religions with faith. All religions have devoted followers and slackers. Instead I'm forced to rely on my supposedly god given brain to reason my way through life. If god gives commands because those commands are good to follow, then I should be able to figure that out myself. If instead they are only good because god gives them, then that isn't morality, that is obedience and I want nothing to do with that.

Before you even go there I also want to cut you short on the whole evolution thing, evolution is a fact, our understanding of the processes that make evolution work is the theory, same as with the theory of gravity and germ theory. In these cases, theory means a set of hypotheses that explain a phenomena and have stood up to rigorous testing. Saying evolution is just a theory is nonsensical.

Anoher thing that someone else mentioned in the thread about everyone having faith in something. That only works if you keep the definition of faith vague enough to allow it to encompass both temporary trust based on a reasonable examination of evidence, as well as blindly believing even if that goes against the evidence.
I don't have faith in science. Science proves that it works every day, precicely because false ideas that are found false are rejected and other beliefs are corrected to better suit the evidence. This isn't because single scientists are infallible, lots of scientists hold wrong ideas, but because of peer review and the thorough application of critical thinking and appreciation of evidence.
That's not something I call faith. If you restrict the faith definition to just the believing things without good reason/against good reason part, then I don't have faith in anything and I consider that a good thing.
I don't have faith in friends, I have reasonable expectations of them based on previous encounters, which I adjust if they start acting differently from how they were in the past. Same goes for family. Don't conflate that with believing in a deity that wants me to do stuff without even establishing his own existence. Those are two completely different things.

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19 / F / Michigan
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Posted 4/27/13
Not really; I consider myself agnostic.
But I always respect everyone's opinion (to each his own).
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22 / M / Toronto, Canada
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Posted 4/27/13
Nope. Why? I'm majoring in science. That should be a valid explanation
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23 / SF Bay Area, US
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Posted 4/27/13
I am an apatheist.

According to Wikipedia:
Apatheism is acting with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity. An apatheist is also someone who is not interested in accepting or denying any claims that gods exist or do not exist. In other words, an apatheist is someone who considers the question of the existence of gods as neither meaningful nor relevant to his or her life.

By virtue of my apatheism, I have respect for everyone's varying opinions (or lack thereof).
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Posted 4/27/13
I do believe gods created the world, but other than that I don't really care about religion
I worship my own goddesses =w=
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Posted 4/27/13 , edited 4/27/13
I know I'm lacking in religiosity but it doesn't stop me from holding fast to the little I do. Why are people and myself religious? It's because of our religion and attempt at being committed to it.

I thought that was a no brainer. We believe and accept our religion. If there's something you believe and accept wouldn't it seem strange if someone told you why are you committed to that?

Whether you believe something to be the case or not is irrelevant. What matters is what's true.

I hear a lot of atheists say definitively prove God exists. You can likewise say definitively disprove God doesn't exist. What's important is what's true not what you believe. The consequences of the truth of an all powerful being's existence means not so good if you reject this all powerful being.

If you like to go by your whims then it's prudent to keep helping yourself. And if your scientific the rejection of God should be unwise.

Look at your chances.

What you get: For believing in god a chance of being safeguarded. For disbelieving in god a chance of being ruined. If you're a man of reasoning it should be simple. And if you're a man who likes to say whatever he likes in order to keep saying whatever you like comfortably maybe you should take such measures of way of some solace and ease.
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Posted 4/27/13 , edited 4/27/13

DoughnutsMakeMeDrool wrote:

I know I'm lacking in religiosity but it doesn't stop me from holding fast to the little I do. Why are people and myself religious? It's because of our religion and attempt at being committed to it.

I thought that was a no brainer. We believe and accept our religion. If there's something you believe and accept wouldn't it seem strange if someone told you why are you committed to that?

Whether you believe something to be the case or not is irrelevant. What matters is what's true.

I hear a lot of atheists say definitively prove God exists. You can likewise say definitively disprove God doesn't exist. What's important is what's true not what you believe. The consequences of the truth of an all powerful being's existence means not so good if you reject this all powerful being.

If you like to go by your whims then it's prudent to keep helping yourself. And if your scientific the rejection of God should be unwise.

Look at your chances.

What you get: For believing in god a chance of being safeguarded. For disbelieving in god a chance of being ruined. If you're a man of reasoning it should be simple. And if you're a man who likes to say whatever he likes in order to keep saying whatever you like comfortably maybe you should take such measures of way of some solace and ease.


You just described Pascal's Wager and that is the worst reason to believe. It's not a great bet when you consider there are over 20 major religions and over 1000 minor religions in the world... how sure are you that you are betting on the right one?

Also regarding disproving God... you don't need to prove a null. That's like me asking you to prove that invisible Aliens all around earth don't exist. Or prove that Santa, Easter Bunny, and tooth fairies don't exist.
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Posted 4/27/13

DoughnutsMakeMeDrool wrote:

I know I'm lacking in religiosity but it doesn't stop me from holding fast to the little I do. Why are people and myself religious? It's because of our religion and attempt at being committed to it.

I thought that was a no brainer. We believe and accept our religion. If there's something you believe and accept wouldn't it seem strange if someone told you why are you committed to that?

Whether you believe something to be the case or not is irrelevant. What matters is what's true.

I hear a lot of atheists say definitively prove God exists. You can likewise say definitively disprove God doesn't exist. What's important is what's true not what you believe. The consequences of the truth of an all powerful being's existence means not so good if you reject this all powerful being.

If you like to go by your whims then it's prudent to keep helping yourself. And if your scientific the rejection of God should be unwise.

Look at your chances.

What you get: For believing in god a chance of being safeguarded. For disbelieving in god a chance of being ruined. If you're a man of reasoning it should be simple. And if you're a man who likes to say whatever he likes in order to keep saying whatever you like comfortably maybe you should take such measures of way of some solace and ease.



Are you really pulling a Pascal's wager? Really?

First off, our beliefs are important, because beliefs inform actions. Assuming that the god you believe in stays out of daily life, beliefs about the world are far more important than truth. Truth is just what is, beliefs influence what other beliefs we are likely to accept and are what we base our actions on. That's why critical thinking is so important.

Second, what kind of criterium for an afterlife is belief? Would anything worth calling a deity really not see through this wager I can easily see through to see that I'm not really believing because that's what I think is most likely, but just going through the motions because that is what I've been told will net me a decent afterlife?

Third, how do you know that that is really the criterion you're being judged on. Maybe the criterium is rejecting belief for the sake of salvation and instead showing that you value honest critical thinking above the easy way out.

I'll take my chances with being honest about my beliefs. If I happen to be judged unfavourably for that, then that'd suck, but there's not much I can do about the whims of a (near omnipotent) tyrant.

Besides with the way all the scientific evidence points to onciousness being an emergent property of our brains, I find the belief in souls and an afterlife in general extremely unlikely to the point where the alternative leads to the equivalent of soliphsism.


By the way, it's possible to both reject the belief that a god exists, as well as the belief that no gods exist. Both of these are positive claims that need justification to reasonably accept. Depending on the god claim, I either belief that god doesn't exist (because of conflicts with established natural explanations for phenomena attributed to that god) or don't believe the positive claim that a god exists. Because most believers are quite eager to state their belief in a god and to convince others to share that belief, the burden of proof is on them. This of course means that someone arguing this can only argue for refraining from belief.

This is analogous to how in US courts, even though any suspect is either innocent of the crime, or guilty, only the question of guilt is adressed. The jury doesn't have to be convinced that the suspect is innocent, all they have to judge is if they are convinced that that person is guilty. If they remain unconvinced of guilt, that doesn't mean that they have to be convinced of innocense. The same goes for the god claim. Either the god under discussion exists or not (guilty or innocent) but we only adress one of the positive claims at the same time. In this case since theists make a positive claim (god is guilty of existing), the debate centers around whether we should accept that claim or reject it. We can also debate the claim that god doesn't exist (god is innocent of existing), but considering that belief is still accepted as the default position for large portions of the world and most atheists don't even care about that side of the debate, the other part (is god guilty of existing) is more interesting.
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Posted 4/27/13 , edited 4/27/13

suikojay wrote:


Erikku wrote:

christians seem to think most atheists hate god and that's why they are atheist.

Hmm, actually I think most christians think atheists are atheists because they don't believe he exists, not because they hate him. I think if most atheists hated god, then they would have to admit that he exists in the first place.


I disagree with this logic. Although I don't believe the christian god exists, I hate his character/personality/beliefs as described in the same sense that I despise a comic book villain or a movie antagonist. You can hate character that don't exist in real life. I mean, I can't stand Ned Flanders on the Simpsons but that doesn't mean I have to "admit he exists in the first place."

This being an anime website, you should understand that fictional characters attract both fans and haters.
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Posted 4/27/13 , edited 4/27/13

bensonc120 wrote:

I disagree with this logic. Although I don't believe the christian god exists, I hate his character/personality/beliefs as described in the same sense that I despise a comic book villain or a movie antagonist. You can hate character that don't exist in real life. I mean, I can't stand Ned Flanders on the Simpsons but that doesn't mean I have to "admit he exists in the first place."


Yup, I understand what u are saying and that's why I said "most," which left room for interpretation which u just mentioned, and I agree with what you say here. I've never done a survey on this or anything, but I would like to believe that most people just want physical/scientific evidence for God, and not so much just "hate" the idea of God.



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Posted 4/27/13
Pastafarian. I've been touched by his noodly appendage.
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Posted 4/27/13


Yup, I understand what u are saying and that's why I said "most," which left room for interpretation which u just mentioned, and I agree with what you say here. I've never done a survey on this or anything, but I would like to believe that most people just want physical/scientific evidence for God, and not so much just "hate" the idea of God.


Idea of a benevolent, loving, "godlike" high power? Most people atheists or not, including myself, would welcome that idea. The idea of a christian god? The vindictive, jealous, callous, egotistical, self-serving creature as described in the bible? Absolutely hate it, sorry.
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