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Post Reply are you religious? if so, why?
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Atheist.

I won't tell you you're religion is wrong, or you're stupid, etc. I just choose people over the possibility that there is an afterlife, and my actions warrant my placing.
Gay Marriage being a focus in my point. People cannot be denied the chance of unions because theres a force out there that dislikes the idea of two boys/girls in love.
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I believe each person is at a different tier in whatever religion or organization that their in. As for me, I am a Christian but I am not a hard life Christian. That makes me a lower tier if anything. Reasons why I believe in God is because everything you have heard about in this life has come from somewhere. I believe everything is real and true, otherwise a lot of the story's we hear, read and/or watch about wouldn't have come to exist. Such as mythical creatures, technology we hear about in science fictional books/movies/ect., devils, demons, gods & God are all pretty much in our historical context. In which of course all of this is in the bible somewhere, though I don't really read it...but I should. But everything is a story, just like our own lives that we live is a story, and of course the bible itself is a story. Some information and story's are real, some are false, which ever you decide to decipher from a book, movie, picture or what not. I just simply believe that yes there is a God and that pretty much everything that is going on today has been done before, like playing a video game level over and over again but getting better or worse results. Your life, do what you want and believe what you want to believe.
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suikojay wrote:


sharkjack wrote:

Given that this is the only life we know we'll have, as well as that all the evidence in neuroscience points to our conciousness being the emergent property of the brain

But yes, it can in fact be that things exist that you don't know of yet and of which there is of now not sufficient evidence to believe. Guess what, then you're not rationally justified to believe that until the moment sufficient evidence is presented. Refraining from belief when insufficient evidence is presented is the rational way to avoid believing things for bad reasons.


Hmm, are u familiar with the work of Dr. Pim van Lommel? He is a renowned cardiologist who's done quite a bit of research on consciousness & near-death experiences from hundreds of heart patients that all clinically died by cardiac arrest. He proposes the concept of non-locality: a dimension where there is no time and no space. Basically, he's saying the brain contains consciousness, but the brain does not produce consciousness.

If you're interested (or anyone else is), there's a 2 part interview-video on this on Youtube. It's interesting stuff.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YOeLJCdHojU
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wFxc67bLrW0#!


I hadn't personally heard of Pim myself, but I've heard the same arguments presented before.
It's pretty sad that a cardiologist (from my own country even. For shame) would get such basic biological concepts wrong.

First off, when you sleep and when you're in cardiac arrest, the brain doesn't entirely shut down. Sleep is a complicated process with multiple phases in which conciousness can be experienced and remembered. People who train themselves in this can become lucid dreamers, capable of conciously affecting their dreams. When your body goes into cardiac arrest, your brain is gradually deprived of oxygen and it will start dieing. Given that he's going to base his whole idea on this wrong basic assumption that the brain doesn't produce concsiousness when you're experiencing a near death experience, we can already dismiss the rest out of hand, but I won't for now, because I spent more time watching and I've got more to say.

The second thing he gets wrong is neuroplasticity. Neuroplasticity simply means that it's not genetics that determine the way the brain will develop, but actual experiences. This is however done through the natural processes of neurons strenghtening their connections if they get frequently used, weakening those that are infrequently used, removing ones that are to weak and sometimes laying new connections. This is a physical process and not at all something that disproves hard determinism. In fact I happen to be a believer in hard determinism. The idea that that blocks free will might be intuitive but it doesn't follow logically. Still a lot of atheists reject it and it's not really relevant to the topic at hand.

Let me lay out the situation again. On the one hand we've got patients that live in a culture where near death experiences are a well known phenomena. We've got a patient with a brain that's deprived of oxygen for a limited amount of time. This brain is still active, but regions are ceasing function or dieing alltogether.

What is more likely? That this particular 'drugged' state (oxygen deprivation) has a tendency to produce phenomena that contain the near death experience elements, thereby leading to a reinforcement of the belief in those elements as part of near death experiences, which fits with all the neuroscientific evidence (split brain patients with seperate concious minds in the two seperated brain halves, the modularity of brain functions and the high correlation between cells and specific brain tasks, the fact that personalities and preferences can drastically change because of localised damage to the brain) without having to add in any new concepts to our model of understanding reality.
OR that he brain is actually just a receiver or container for conciousness and that after death it goes into some other dimension (that butchers the physics definition of dimension by the way) and just poofs away all nicely no matter how damaged the brain got in the process of a person dieing. This requires us to add to our current model of reality the existence of souls that are in no way identifiable, as well as a 'dimension' where they're supposed to go to. It's wishfull thinking at it's finest.

So yeah, I'm not impressed.



Posted 4/30/13
I'm agnostic but I respect other people's belief. I don't appreciate people who disrespects others though.
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Posted 5/2/13

sharkjack wrote:


masterjayson wrote:

I think you all should be aware first what is religion than showing how naive you all are...its not enough to believe, you have to live it...
Its a loooooong topic and it takes years to understand religion fully...

To start with i suggest you read the Bible or search it online...
Genesis 1:1...In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth...

Science says that man was evolved through an atom. But who created an atom? There is no doubt that God is our creator and he said to follow his commandments.



I can't tell if you're for real or just pretending for the heck of it, so I'm just going on the assumption that what you're saying is for real.

First of I don't care what the bible has to say. If a supposedly infallible creator deity wanted me to know about stuff, he could certainly do a much better job than a roughly 2000 year old book written in a language nobody speaks anymore that was constructed by people with their own purposes in mind. I don't particularly care if there was a guy called Jesus that the new testament was inspired by or if it's an amalgamation either.

secondly, science doesn't say man was evolved through an atom. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If all you mean to say is that there can't be an infinite chain of events back and there needs to have been an uncreated creator (unmoved mover whatever) then too bad, the universe isn't constricted to your narrow interpretation of how time works. Yes we haven't figured everything out about the origin of the universe, that doesn't mean you can just shove god in there and act like you do know the answer.

Still, even supposing for the sake of argument that a creator god (like the deistic one) exists. How would you know that anything attributed to that god was actually a command from that god? Aren't humans fallible to a fault when it comes to this stuff? To me it sounds like a great con scheme. Obviously there are a lot of conflicting religions in the world. They can't all be true, but they can all be false. I can't distinguish between religions with faith. All religions have devoted followers and slackers. Instead I'm forced to rely on my supposedly god given brain to reason my way through life. If god gives commands because those commands are good to follow, then I should be able to figure that out myself. If instead they are only good because god gives them, then that isn't morality, that is obedience and I want nothing to do with that.

Before you even go there I also want to cut you short on the whole evolution thing, evolution is a fact, our understanding of the processes that make evolution work is the theory, same as with the theory of gravity and germ theory. In these cases, theory means a set of hypotheses that explain a phenomena and have stood up to rigorous testing. Saying evolution is just a theory is nonsensical.

Anoher thing that someone else mentioned in the thread about everyone having faith in something. That only works if you keep the definition of faith vague enough to allow it to encompass both temporary trust based on a reasonable examination of evidence, as well as blindly believing even if that goes against the evidence.
I don't have faith in science. Science proves that it works every day, precicely because false ideas that are found false are rejected and other beliefs are corrected to better suit the evidence. This isn't because single scientists are infallible, lots of scientists hold wrong ideas, but because of peer review and the thorough application of critical thinking and appreciation of evidence.
That's not something I call faith. If you restrict the faith definition to just the believing things without good reason/against good reason part, then I don't have faith in anything and I consider that a good thing.
I don't have faith in friends, I have reasonable expectations of them based on previous encounters, which I adjust if they start acting differently from how they were in the past. Same goes for family. Don't conflate that with believing in a deity that wants me to do stuff without even establishing his own existence. Those are two completely different things.



I can't tell if you're for real or just pretending for the heck of it, so I'm just going on the assumption that what you're saying is for real. No one is perfect except God, that's why Il'l be praying for you Sharkjack...because i am being real...

First of I don't care what the bible has to say. If a supposedly infallible creator deity wanted me to know about stuff, he could certainly do a much better job than a roughly 2000 year old book written in a language nobody speaks anymore that was constructed by people with their own purposes in mind. I don't particularly care if there was a guy called Jesus that the new testament was inspired by or if it's an amalgamation either. You watch too much movies...or animes...The Bible is a set of guidelines of different authors projecting the teachings and words of God through the witnesses of their times. For example, how Noah built the ark; when Moses split the sea in half; not to mention the miracles Jesus has shown...specially when He died on the cross and redeemed the world. With a lot of events in different eras, I dont think they all just made it up, or like you said a diety who wanted to let you know as we speak. And considering that some authors lead to the same story but with different words. Does that mean that they were told to deceive people by not making it obvious? I dont think you will care of the Bible nor Jesus because you dont know the TRUTH. And the TRUTH is JESUS. Thats why I am saying, find it out first before you judge things.

secondly, science doesn't say man was evolved through an atom. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If all you mean to say is that there can't be an infinite chain of events back and there needs to have been an uncreated creator (unmoved mover whatever) then too bad, the universe isn't constricted to your narrow interpretation of how time works. Yes we haven't figured everything out about the origin of the universe, that doesn't mean you can just shove god in there and act like you do know the answer. Science do say we evolved from atom. After all what you are saying I'm surprised that you don't really know what you are saying...specially on the atom thingy. We didnt just shove God in there, he was there in the beginning. He created the universe. Man, in time, still discovers new things. And what science says about the formation of the universe billion of years ago, man will not really know about it until yje day of judgement..

Still, even supposing for the sake of argument that a creator god (like the deistic one) exists. How would you know that anything attributed to that god was actually a command from that god? Aren't humans fallible to a fault when it comes to this stuff? To me it sounds like a great con scheme. Obviously there are a lot of conflicting religions in the world. They can't all be true, but they can all be false. I can't distinguish between religions with faith. All religions have devoted followers and slackers. Instead I'm forced to rely on my supposedly god given brain to reason my way through life. If god gives commands because those commands are good to follow, then I should be able to figure that out myself. If instead they are only good because god gives them, then that isn't morality, that is obedience and I want nothing to do with that. Because God spoke to Moses, directly, and gave him the 10 Commandments in 2 tablets. It was a direct order of God. Man, the pharaoh, didn't believe in God (such as you). So God decided to delegate Moses on His behalf, to show how powerful the almighty God is. And after those tests of proving how the miracles were done through a common man, they couldnt. Because he as a man could not do what God can. So at the end He believed that God existed when he lost all his soldiers in the sea. Devoted followers and their faiths should be respected. They dont slack off like you are. If you cant even follow a simple 10 rules, then what good are you?

Before you even go there I also want to cut you short on the whole evolution thing, evolution is a fact, our understanding of the processes that make evolution work is the theory, same as with the theory of gravity and germ theory. In these cases, theory means a set of hypotheses that explain a phenomena and have stood up to rigorous testing. Saying evolution is just a theory is nonsensical. God created man. Not a baby. God created a woman out of a rib cage of man. God created the chicken, not the egg. You are so smart, you can figure that out using your God-given brain.

Anoher thing that someone else mentioned in the thread about everyone having faith in something. That only works if you keep the definition of faith vague enough to allow it to encompass both temporary trust based on a reasonable examination of evidence, as well as blindly believing even if that goes against the evidence.
I don't have faith in science. Science proves that it works every day, precicely because false ideas that are found false are rejected and other beliefs are corrected to better suit the evidence. This isn't because single scientists are infallible, lots of scientists hold wrong ideas, but because of peer review and the thorough application of critical thinking and appreciation of evidence.
That's not something I call faith. If you restrict the faith definition to just the believing things without good reason/against good reason part, then I don't have faith in anything and I consider that a good thing.
I don't have faith in friends, I have reasonable expectations of them based on previous encounters, which I adjust if they start acting differently from how they were in the past. Same goes for family. Don't conflate that with believing in a deity that wants me to do stuff without even establishing his own existence. Those are two completely different things. Faith is what would save you today. I dont blame you if are not exposed to faith nor to religions by whoever took care of you while growing. But I do suggest you find out the whole thing before you judge people...specially God himself. You are by the way disobeying the 1st Commandment. I can suggest that you watch 1 season of the new series called The Bible. I think it has 7 episodes only. That will save you from reading. But I highly suggest that you read and find out, then you can say your opinion. I am not a perfect person, but I know which road I should go through. And that is called faith.

May God bless you!
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masterjayson wrote:


sharkjack wrote:


masterjayson wrote:

I think you all should be aware first what is religion than showing how naive you all are...its not enough to believe, you have to live it...
Its a loooooong topic and it takes years to understand religion fully...

To start with i suggest you read the Bible or search it online...
Genesis 1:1...In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth...

Science says that man was evolved through an atom. But who created an atom? There is no doubt that God is our creator and he said to follow his commandments.



I can't tell if you're for real or just pretending for the heck of it, so I'm just going on the assumption that what you're saying is for real.

First of I don't care what the bible has to say. If a supposedly infallible creator deity wanted me to know about stuff, he could certainly do a much better job than a roughly 2000 year old book written in a language nobody speaks anymore that was constructed by people with their own purposes in mind. I don't particularly care if there was a guy called Jesus that the new testament was inspired by or if it's an amalgamation either.

secondly, science doesn't say man was evolved through an atom. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If all you mean to say is that there can't be an infinite chain of events back and there needs to have been an uncreated creator (unmoved mover whatever) then too bad, the universe isn't constricted to your narrow interpretation of how time works. Yes we haven't figured everything out about the origin of the universe, that doesn't mean you can just shove god in there and act like you do know the answer.

Still, even supposing for the sake of argument that a creator god (like the deistic one) exists. How would you know that anything attributed to that god was actually a command from that god? Aren't humans fallible to a fault when it comes to this stuff? To me it sounds like a great con scheme. Obviously there are a lot of conflicting religions in the world. They can't all be true, but they can all be false. I can't distinguish between religions with faith. All religions have devoted followers and slackers. Instead I'm forced to rely on my supposedly god given brain to reason my way through life. If god gives commands because those commands are good to follow, then I should be able to figure that out myself. If instead they are only good because god gives them, then that isn't morality, that is obedience and I want nothing to do with that.

Before you even go there I also want to cut you short on the whole evolution thing, evolution is a fact, our understanding of the processes that make evolution work is the theory, same as with the theory of gravity and germ theory. In these cases, theory means a set of hypotheses that explain a phenomena and have stood up to rigorous testing. Saying evolution is just a theory is nonsensical.

Anoher thing that someone else mentioned in the thread about everyone having faith in something. That only works if you keep the definition of faith vague enough to allow it to encompass both temporary trust based on a reasonable examination of evidence, as well as blindly believing even if that goes against the evidence.
I don't have faith in science. Science proves that it works every day, precicely because false ideas that are found false are rejected and other beliefs are corrected to better suit the evidence. This isn't because single scientists are infallible, lots of scientists hold wrong ideas, but because of peer review and the thorough application of critical thinking and appreciation of evidence.
That's not something I call faith. If you restrict the faith definition to just the believing things without good reason/against good reason part, then I don't have faith in anything and I consider that a good thing.
I don't have faith in friends, I have reasonable expectations of them based on previous encounters, which I adjust if they start acting differently from how they were in the past. Same goes for family. Don't conflate that with believing in a deity that wants me to do stuff without even establishing his own existence. Those are two completely different things.



I can't tell if you're for real or just pretending for the heck of it, so I'm just going on the assumption that what you're saying is for real. No one is perfect except God, that's why Il'l be praying for you Sharkjack...because i am being real...

First of I don't care what the bible has to say. If a supposedly infallible creator deity wanted me to know about stuff, he could certainly do a much better job than a roughly 2000 year old book written in a language nobody speaks anymore that was constructed by people with their own purposes in mind. I don't particularly care if there was a guy called Jesus that the new testament was inspired by or if it's an amalgamation either. You watch too much movies...or animes...The Bible is a set of guidelines of different authors projecting the teachings and words of God through the witnesses of their times. For example, how Noah built the ark; when Moses split the sea in half; not to mention the miracles Jesus has shown...specially when He died on the cross and redeemed the world. With a lot of events in different eras, I dont think they all just made it up, or like you said a diety who wanted to let you know as we speak. And considering that some authors lead to the same story but with different words. Does that mean that they were told to deceive people by not making it obvious? I dont think you will care of the Bible nor Jesus because you dont know the TRUTH. And the TRUTH is JESUS. Thats why I am saying, find it out first before you judge things.

secondly, science doesn't say man was evolved through an atom. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If all you mean to say is that there can't be an infinite chain of events back and there needs to have been an uncreated creator (unmoved mover whatever) then too bad, the universe isn't constricted to your narrow interpretation of how time works. Yes we haven't figured everything out about the origin of the universe, that doesn't mean you can just shove god in there and act like you do know the answer. Science do say we evolved from atom. After all what you are saying I'm surprised that you don't really know what you are saying...specially on the atom thingy. We didnt just shove God in there, he was there in the beginning. He created the universe. Man, in time, still discovers new things. And what science says about the formation of the universe billion of years ago, man will not really know about it until yje day of judgement..

Still, even supposing for the sake of argument that a creator god (like the deistic one) exists. How would you know that anything attributed to that god was actually a command from that god? Aren't humans fallible to a fault when it comes to this stuff? To me it sounds like a great con scheme. Obviously there are a lot of conflicting religions in the world. They can't all be true, but they can all be false. I can't distinguish between religions with faith. All religions have devoted followers and slackers. Instead I'm forced to rely on my supposedly god given brain to reason my way through life. If god gives commands because those commands are good to follow, then I should be able to figure that out myself. If instead they are only good because god gives them, then that isn't morality, that is obedience and I want nothing to do with that. Because God spoke to Moses, directly, and gave him the 10 Commandments in 2 tablets. It was a direct order of God. Man, the pharaoh, didn't believe in God (such as you). So God decided to delegate Moses on His behalf, to show how powerful the almighty God is. And after those tests of proving how the miracles were done through a common man, they couldnt. Because he as a man could not do what God can. So at the end He believed that God existed when he lost all his soldiers in the sea. Devoted followers and their faiths should be respected. They dont slack off like you are. If you cant even follow a simple 10 rules, then what good are you?

Before you even go there I also want to cut you short on the whole evolution thing, evolution is a fact, our understanding of the processes that make evolution work is the theory, same as with the theory of gravity and germ theory. In these cases, theory means a set of hypotheses that explain a phenomena and have stood up to rigorous testing. Saying evolution is just a theory is nonsensical. God created man. Not a baby. God created a woman out of a rib cage of man. God created the chicken, not the egg. You are so smart, you can figure that out using your God-given brain.

Anoher thing that someone else mentioned in the thread about everyone having faith in something. That only works if you keep the definition of faith vague enough to allow it to encompass both temporary trust based on a reasonable examination of evidence, as well as blindly believing even if that goes against the evidence.
I don't have faith in science. Science proves that it works every day, precicely because false ideas that are found false are rejected and other beliefs are corrected to better suit the evidence. This isn't because single scientists are infallible, lots of scientists hold wrong ideas, but because of peer review and the thorough application of critical thinking and appreciation of evidence.
That's not something I call faith. If you restrict the faith definition to just the believing things without good reason/against good reason part, then I don't have faith in anything and I consider that a good thing.
I don't have faith in friends, I have reasonable expectations of them based on previous encounters, which I adjust if they start acting differently from how they were in the past. Same goes for family. Don't conflate that with believing in a deity that wants me to do stuff without even establishing his own existence. Those are two completely different things. Faith is what would save you today. I dont blame you if are not exposed to faith nor to religions by whoever took care of you while growing. But I do suggest you find out the whole thing before you judge people...specially God himself. You are by the way disobeying the 1st Commandment. I can suggest that you watch 1 season of the new series called The Bible. I think it has 7 episodes only. That will save you from reading. But I highly suggest that you read and find out, then you can say your opinion. I am not a perfect person, but I know which road I should go through. And that is called faith.

May God bless you!


Dude calm the hell down, you're like a jehova's witness.

First everyone has a different meaning to the word "God". You'll soon notice not everyone has the same meaning for it.
Second, so God created the world. Why should I worship him?
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I'm not and I honestly think religion does more harm than good. It does bring a lot of people comfort but I feel it distances them from other people and from reality and makes a lot of them more judgemental and selfish. I know there are good people that are religious but I know more people who are genuinely good and thoughtful that are not. People ask, "How can you have morals without a higher power?" And I always say, "How moral are you if you are only doing the right thing because you are afraid of being punished and so you get a reward at the end of your life?"

I can respect religious folk though as long as they keep their beliefs out of the law and the private lives of others. Keep it in your homes and in your churches and out of the public domain and we can all be happy, ne?
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I just wrote a paper in my philosophy class on why the world no longer needs organized religion. It basically boiled down to religion being one of the main driving forces of terrorism and violence, an enabler of discrimination, and a significant inhibitor of scientific progress. I'm not saying that a belief in some supernatural force is bad, and if it gives you hope or happiness then fantastic, but as soon as you start forcing your beliefs on someone else (like the reverend red text jr. a few posts up), that is when religion does more harm than good to society.

But that doesn't mean I'm on team atheism either. Atheists can be massive douches about their beliefs as well. And I view atheism as almost as much of a religion as Christianity or Islam (but without all the hate, violence, and condemnation of science), because it is impossible to know what happens after you die. I hate a cocky atheist just as much as I hate an overly religious bigot. Basically think of Bill O'Reilly vs Bill Maher. They are both just terrible excuses for human beings.

Basically, I live by the rule of "don't be a douchebag". As long as you live by this rule, you will be following the gist of most religions, and if you are not religious, then you will not be remembered as a douchebag when you die. So it is basically a win win for everyone.
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I'm not religious. Religion and people of faith always seemed rather clinically insane to me. Especially since they're willing to believe in a spooky, incompetent father-figure who doesn't seem to care about the pain and suffering of people all over the world caused by the actions of evil and greedy people. What, you think God is going to change the eventual self-destruction of humanity? No such luck... No luck at all...
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I can't tell if you're for real or just pretending for the heck of it, so I'm just going on the assumption that what you're saying is for real. No one is perfect except God, that's why Il'l be praying for you Sharkjack...because i am being real... I'd rather you didn't. I don't believe your god exests but even if he did It's not something that's going to do anything for me. It's not like you're going to convince your omnipotent omnicient god to do something he wasn't already going to do, so there really is no point in praying for me.

First of I don't care what the bible has to say. If a supposedly infallible creator deity wanted me to know about stuff, he could certainly do a much better job than a roughly 2000 year old book written in a language nobody speaks anymore that was constructed by people with their own purposes in mind. I don't particularly care if there was a guy called Jesus that the new testament was inspired by or if it's an amalgamation either. You watch too much movies...or animes...The Bible is a set of guidelines of different authors projecting the teachings and words of God through the witnesses of their times. For example, how Noah built the ark; when Moses split the sea in half; not to mention the miracles Jesus has shown...specially when He died on the cross and redeemed the world. With a lot of events in different eras, I dont think they all just made it up, or like you said a diety who wanted to let you know as we speak. And considering that some authors lead to the same story but with different words. Does that mean that they were told to deceive people by not making it obvious? I dont think you will care of the Bible nor Jesus because you dont know the TRUTH. And the TRUTH is JESUS. Thats why I am saying, find it out first before you judge things.
the bible is a set of stories, documentation of historical events, laws (there's more than 10 commandments) and other parts of the oral tradition passed down by the Jews written up into what is now known as the old testament. Ive read a bunch of it, I've read a bunch of the new testament. Stories like the tower of Babel, the Arc of Noah and the genesis account to the beginning of the earth and it's inhabitants are all clearly in conflict with science, they are clearly written to explain phenomena that people at the time didn't understand (like where did we come from, why are people speaking different languages etc.) The story about the pharaoh is in my eyes a clear demonstration of how much of a tyrant the god of the old testament was. The Pharaoh had decided to let the Isrealites go. But because God wanted to be able to show off how mighty and powerful he is, he went and forcefully changed the pharaoh's mind. I always hear from christians that god can't intervene in stuff because it would violate free will. This is a pretty clear violation. Anyway, it's because of this violation that the Pharaoh sends his soldiers to stop the Isrealites. God then kills the Egyptians, meaning that he's also responsible for their deaths.

The point is though, that a book isn't good enough to convince me of the existence of an all powerfull deity, nor that I should take the the arbitrary morality that a book presents is anymore than the product of the time it was written in. If there's a god out there that wants to convince me to live in a particular way, it'll have to do better than that.


secondly, science doesn't say man was evolved through an atom. I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If all you mean to say is that there can't be an infinite chain of events back and there needs to have been an uncreated creator (unmoved mover whatever) then too bad, the universe isn't constricted to your narrow interpretation of how time works. Yes we haven't figured everything out about the origin of the universe, that doesn't mean you can just shove god in there and act like you do know the answer. Science do say we evolved from atom. After all what you are saying I'm surprised that you don't really know what you are saying...specially on the atom thingy. We didnt just shove God in there, he was there in the beginning. He created the universe. Man, in time, still discovers new things. And what science says about the formation of the universe billion of years ago, man will not really know about it until yje day of judgement..
I meant shove god in there as an explanation. You don't shove god in there because you say things happened according to the genesis account. But there are plenty of christians that reject the literal genesis account and then say that their god is responsible for whatever things science can't currently explain. At the point in time my post was written, I assumed you weren't a literalist. Of course the problem with being a literalist on this issue is that you go against everything we know about the universe and it's formation.

Don't go acting like it's a weakness of science that it doesn't work with certainty, because that's one of it's strongest sides. In science all statements are tentative, precicely because new evidence can always come in and invalidate previous viewpoints. That's how we increase our understanding of the world.


Still, even supposing for the sake of argument that a creator god (like the deistic one) exists. How would you know that anything attributed to that god was actually a command from that god? Aren't humans fallible to a fault when it comes to this stuff? To me it sounds like a great con scheme. Obviously there are a lot of conflicting religions in the world. They can't all be true, but they can all be false. I can't distinguish between religions with faith. All religions have devoted followers and slackers. Instead I'm forced to rely on my supposedly god given brain to reason my way through life. If god gives commands because those commands are good to follow, then I should be able to figure that out myself. If instead they are only good because god gives them, then that isn't morality, that is obedience and I want nothing to do with that. Because God spoke to Moses, directly, and gave him the 10 Commandments in 2 tablets. It was a direct order of God. Man, the pharaoh, didn't believe in God (such as you). So God decided to delegate Moses on His behalf, to show how powerful the almighty God is. And after those tests of proving how the miracles were done through a common man, they couldnt. Because he as a man could not do what God can. So at the end He believed that God existed when he lost all his soldiers in the sea. Devoted followers and their faiths should be respected. They dont slack off like you are. If you cant even follow a simple 10 rules, then what good are you?
I already talked about the pharaoh above. The pharaoh didn't lose his men because he didn't believe in god, he lost his man because god was showing off and needed things to kill. Either way, you're basically making a threat by saying devoted followers and their faith should be respected, because otherwise god will stamp all over your supposed free will. I have zero respect for faith and only respect followers of a religion in as far as I respect people in general.

If you're questioning my morality because I don't keep the 10 commandments, then I refer you back to my post on the 43rd page on this thread (it's post 9 from the top to be specific). Constructing your own moral system is hard and takes a lot of time, especcially when you get into tough issues that you lack understanding on. It takes time to educate yourself, remove false preconceptions and to judge when rules of thumb are applicable and when they oversimplify the issue at hand. If you think morality is as simple as following a few simple rules, (especcially when like 3 of those rules are about what god you are supposed to worship and when you should take a day off) then you are the one who is slacking off, not me.


Before you even go there I also want to cut you short on the whole evolution thing, evolution is a fact, our understanding of the processes that make evolution work is the theory, same as with the theory of gravity and germ theory. In these cases, theory means a set of hypotheses that explain a phenomena and have stood up to rigorous testing. Saying evolution is just a theory is nonsensical. God created man. Not a baby. God created a woman out of a rib cage of man. God created the chicken, not the egg. You are so smart, you can figure that out using your God-given brain.
God didn't do any of those things because those things didn't happen. .

Anoher thing that someone else mentioned in the thread about everyone having faith in something. That only works if you keep the definition of faith vague enough to allow it to encompass both temporary trust based on a reasonable examination of evidence, as well as blindly believing even if that goes against the evidence.
I don't have faith in science. Science proves that it works every day, precicely because false ideas that are found false are rejected and other beliefs are corrected to better suit the evidence. This isn't because single scientists are infallible, lots of scientists hold wrong ideas, but because of peer review and the thorough application of critical thinking and appreciation of evidence.
That's not something I call faith. If you restrict the faith definition to just the believing things without good reason/against good reason part, then I don't have faith in anything and I consider that a good thing.
I don't have faith in friends, I have reasonable expectations of them based on previous encounters, which I adjust if they start acting differently from how they were in the past. Same goes for family. Don't conflate that with believing in a deity that wants me to do stuff without even establishing his own existence. Those are two completely different things. Faith is what would save you today. I dont blame you if are not exposed to faith nor to religions by whoever took care of you while growing. But I do suggest you find out the whole thing before you judge people...specially God himself. You are by the way disobeying the 1st Commandment. I can suggest that you watch 1 season of the new series called The Bible. I think it has 7 episodes only. That will save you from reading. But I highly suggest that you read and find out, then you can say your opinion. I am not a perfect person, but I know which road I should go through. And that is called faith.

Yeah sorry no. I don't have faith, I don't want to have faith in anything and if anything you are a perfect demonstration of how faith can block someone from acceptng reality on reality's terms and how it can inhibit moral behavior by favoring adherence to rules. I want nothing to do with that.

May God bless you!
I don't think he will considering I don't believe he exists and wouldn't worship him if I did, but thanks for the sentiment, I guess

A good day to you too.
Posted 5/3/13 , edited 5/3/13

heyitsthatguy wrote:

I just wrote a paper in my philosophy class on why the world no longer needs organized religion. It basically boiled down to religion being one of the main driving forces of terrorism and violence, an enabler of discrimination, and a significant inhibitor of scientific progress. I'm not saying that a belief in some supernatural force is bad, and if it gives you hope or happiness then fantastic, but as soon as you start forcing your beliefs on someone else (like the reverend red text jr. a few posts up), that is when religion does more harm than good to society.

But that doesn't mean I'm on team atheism either. Atheists can be massive douches about their beliefs as well. And I view atheism as almost as much of a religion as Christianity or Islam (but without all the hate, violence, and condemnation of science), because it is impossible to know what happens after you die. I hate a cocky atheist just as much as I hate an overly religious bigot. Basically think of Bill O'Reilly vs Bill Maher. They are both just terrible excuses for human beings.

Basically, I live by the rule of "don't be a douchebag". As long as you live by this rule, you will be following the gist of most religions, and if you are not religious, then you will not be remembered as a douchebag when you die. So it is basically a win win for everyone.


I think you're talking about corruption and greed. There is always an underlying reason as to why evil people force a religion on someone else. It's usually for them to be at the helm. What changed religion is leadership. There where people who manipulated it to their own gain. Expeditions not to spread religion but to overthrow existing leaderships, enslaved people under new forms of slavery, exploitation etc... What’s happening today in religious countries with wars and stuff is not the fault of religion but rather a few elites who’ve chosen to keep the wealth unevenly distributed.

I'm not saying that what you are saying is wrong but there is more to it than meets the eye. If people where really religious they wouldn't be blaming their wrong doings on supernatural beings, this is a very clever way to divert the attention of what's really happening.

I don't know much about atheism but from how the people are further being divided, i believe the term is molding people into creating further divisions. Think about the significance of "Terrorism", this word has surely taken a life of its own, creating new individual laws etc..

How far do we go back to figure out where the seed has been planted?

Futhermore, you've mentioned some men who are atheist and religious but why does what they believe or not believe even matter? It matters only because they are using it to find a specific demographic. A person should look past their belief or disbelief and judge them on what they say. Otherwise the power is to them.
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Posted 5/3/13 , edited 5/3/13
Why do dumbass Atheist blame religion for everything? Religion is an inanimate and immaterial set of beliefs, it is neutral in nature. It is the people who are evil or good that use religion as a tool for power and control.
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Posted 5/3/13 , edited 5/3/13

-Vega- wrote:

Why do dumbass Atheist blame religion for everything? Religion is an inanimate and immaterial set of beliefs, it is neutral in nature. It is the people who are evil or good that use religion as a tool for power and control.


The text in bold is precisely the reason religion must hold its share of the blame. Yes, people are to blame for their actions, and when religion is the motivating factor for the actions of some of its adherents, one cannot logically divorce the two. When religion is not just an excuse, but a blueprint even, for how one can avoid being prosecuted for bullying, (as just one example, in the case of Michigan law: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDK-ja8PLgg) then you cannot logically claim that religion has no involvement in the matter. Religion was the reason that the exception in this was added in the first place, and it is a blatant violation of the Establishment Clause. Your right to free speech in regards to religion stops at the point where it infringes on the rights of others, at least, that is the way it's supposed to be - and that is irrespective of what religion it is.
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Posted 5/3/13 , edited 5/3/13
I'm atheist,I used to be religious but alot of stuff happened that made me angry and I became atheist.I must say life is better this way :).Religion is dumb but i respect others beliefs.
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