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Post Reply are you religious? if so, why?
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Posted 5/12/13

Ember_McLain wrote:


VeniVidiVici- wrote:
I go with the definition that god is----whatever created all this.


Explicit in that statement is that their must have been a creator and implicit is the wish for their to be a celestial dictator.

What created "all this" can readily be explained, fairly well, by cosmologists. When matter collides with anti-matter (positron strikes an electron) they annihilate each other. This process, interestingly, can run in reverse. In addition, because our universe is flat - not in the geometric planar sense but folded through a higher dimension (above the 3rd) - the total energy in our universe is finite allowing for spontaneous expansion so long as energy is conserved. We know antimatter exists and we're made of matter, so, look at how well that works.

"But what if god is the one who caused the big bang!" the religious yell at their screen. Well, that could be. I cannot prove that is not the cause. The spontaneous expansion from singularity, however, has the virtue of being measurable and observable while the caprice of a celestial dictator does not.

If you believe "god" in reference to a more panethnic sense of "nature" then I would implore you change your wording lest the religious get confused and mistake a first cause with a personal, theistic god.


That's my definition. Everyone has their own definition really. By the way---where did that positron and electron come from?

And also great scientists were religious, Newton for example was a christian but never let that get in the way of his scientific observation and discoveries.

Posted 5/12/13 , edited 5/12/13
Nuclearspy, your bizarre stylist mannerisms withstanding, lacing your responses with insults has compelled myself to intervene. Before I began, I think it is worth mentioning, for full disclosure, that I am completely under the impression you are trolling but I feel putting the issue to rest as the points you bring up are still believed by many of the religious.


Nuclearspy wrote:
Again, how do you know gravity exists? You're not seeing an "observable fact of physics", dunce. What you're actually claiming is that you are "Observing what gravity does", and so how is that argument any different when a theist says "God exists because we can observe what God does"?
The difference between both statements if obvious. Personal references to "proof" of god are personal and unreproducible. While I don't doubt the sincerity of believers words, the experiences of god are hallucinations. The scientific method, however, results from many people from multiple countries and time periods, even, coming to similar conclusions. Reproducibility and measurability is a virtue personal experiences of god do not have.


Nuclearspy wrote:
I think it is YOU that needs to learn a thing or two about Sir Issac Newton. He believed in the existence of God, and often called God brilliant after making discoveries in math, philosophy, and science. Newton is FIRST and FOREMOST a Mathematician and Philosopher. Just like Descartes and Galileo were before him (Also were theists). All 3 of those figures KNEW that if you don't have a rational philosophy, then you're just an idiot rambling about something you know nothing about
Claiming Newton believed in god is somewhat misleading. He mainly referred to god in a pantothenic sense [1][2]. Nevertheless, he was indeed a christian -- a result of the times he lived in most certainly. I'm not quite sure what this has to do with anything. Newton, Descartes, and Galileo were also all white. Does this necessarily have meaning?

-

It is hard to prove the nonexistence of something. Especially in cases where the lack of evidence is claimed as, not only evidence, but irrefutable proof to the contrary. But while the the deist is occupied by many great thinkers, it is the theist position that is most widely occupied and, ultimately, the least probable. Not even Aquinas tried to prove the theist position, despite himself being a christian.

Bringing into the fold a discussion on the theory of knowledge is baffling, Nuclearspy. If you were so familiar with it you'd realize what nearly every freshman philosophy class will tell you: There's inductive and deductive reasoning -- humans, pragmatic reductionists -- generally favor strong and weak arguments. And it can be seen that the belief in god, and even agnosticism for that matter, ignores the sheer improbability of the situation.

EDIT: (To consolidate replies)


VeniVidiVici- wrote:
That's my definition. Everyone has their own definition really. By the way---where did that positron and electron come from?

And also great scientists were religious, Newton for example was a christian but never let that get in the way of his scientific observation and discoveries.
The electron and anti-electron (positron) come from predictions by Dirac [3] and discovers by Carl Anderson [4]. If you're curious and wish to see up to date results, here's a rather long lecture on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaGktVQdNg (The lecturer giving the presentation is a jackass -- fair warning).

Newton was indeed religious, however, that's more or less a reflection of the time period than his morality. Currently, now that non-belief is less stigmatized, very few scientists are religious. If every atheist and agnostic left the United States, for example, we would lose 95% [5] of the proceedings of the national academy of sciences but only 3% [6] of the prison population.

--
[1] - Fitzpatrick, Martin. ed. Knud Haakonssen. "The Enlightenment, politics and providence: some Scottish and English comparisons." Enlightenment and Religion: Rational Dissent in eighteenth-century Britain. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge: 1996. p64.
[2] - Westfall, Richard S. (1973) [1964]. Science and Religion in Seventeenth-Century England. U of Michigan Press. ISBN 978-0-472-06190-7.
[3] - http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/117/778/610.full.pdf
[4] - Anderson, Carl D. (1933). "The Positive Electron". Physical Review 43 (6): 491–494. Bibcode:1933PhRv...43..491A. doi:10.1103/PhysRev.43.491
[5] - Society without God (Zuckerman) 2008
[6] - http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/Zuckerman_on_Atheism.pdf
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Posted 5/12/13
It's also serious in here . Where do I belong Dx
I have to be religious in order to stay on Christianmingle.com
I need a bf to escape my life and gods hands.
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Posted 5/12/13
I believe in Jesus and the bible in everyway. I am Apostalic and am proud to serve a God . I dont care if you do believe or not andi will not push my beliefs on you unless you really want to know. People want to believd what they want to believe and thats totally cool with me.just one day i believe we all will be judged by the God of everything. I pray that all you wonderful people will find there way into his arms before that time. But again itsall your choice ans i respect each and everyone of your faiths either in athiesm or God. Sall good
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Posted 5/12/13
I'm religious. After much thought and research, studying of various theories, beliefs, and ideals, I came to one conclusion. That would be that God most certainly does exist, and created all. I'm officially Christian, but I believe very much in the Qu'ran. imagine, if you will, how you would feel if someone with infinite power and love exists, he created you and you denied and may have even may have made joke about Him. Then, for the first time, you feel the extent of His Almighty power. How do you feel?
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Posted 5/12/13


Ember, it isn't worth it.

He doesn't want to accept that there's a difference between empirical evidence gleaned from scientific inquiry and belief. I offered him olive branch and he thinks it's a talking snake. Let it be.
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Posted 5/12/13
i believe in religion, it disciplines me
Posted 5/12/13 , edited 5/12/13

minatothegreatjiraiya wrote:

I'm religious. After much thought and research, studying of various theories, beliefs, and ideals, I came to one conclusion. That would be that God most certainly does exist, and created all. I'm officially Christian, but I believe very much in the Qu'ran. imagine, if you will, how you would feel if someone with infinite power and love exists, he created you and you denied and may have even may have made joke about Him. Then, for the first time, you feel the extent of His Almighty power. How do you feel?
I'm curious; my interest piqued, what evidence do you have that I, and everyone else, does not have available that leads to unwavering certainly to the existence of a celestial dictator? Not only that, but you claim you're a christian. Please explain how you managed to jump from the deist position to the theist position when, in point of fact, great christian philosophers like Aquinas couldn't even argue that.

Additionally, do explain the thought process implicit in your statement "How do you feel?" I very much do not wish that, when I die, to go to a celestial North Korea where all I do is praise dear leader from dawn to dusk. Does the idea of compulsory love not strike you as a bit odd? To love someone you have to fear? The essence of the master-slave relation, the essence of sadomasochism?

I will say, because I fully anticipate the response, that I cannot prove god doesn't exist. There's no way even I can be 100% certain. If Jesus Christ ascended from the heavens at the next super bowl halftime show I would say, "well look at that I was wrong." Nevertheless, it is somewhat confusing that the converse is untrue and the religious will claim equally that lack of evidence is certainty. Not only to know god exists, but to know his will; the only way to make that logical leap is to claim to know things one cannot possibly know.
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Posted 5/12/13
I'm religious but i don't go around putting my religion on people. I really dislike the image that the un-religious put on us. There are different churches and different places out there then just where you are from. I also dislike when un-religious people seem to have a spitefulness that they always have to talk down upon it. Everybody should just live their life and stop always throwing hate toward one another. People seem to have the worst idea about religion or "exactly how it works". I will say this to those that talk down, "Science" can only go so far, "Man" can only go so far, so therefore whose to say that there isn't a God? that's pretty understandable ,right? We all have different experiences we go through, different lives, and I do believe that until people understand one another, people will not understand their purpose in life.
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Posted 5/12/13
Religion does not work in the way you describe.
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Posted 5/12/13
Humans need to get over themselves, they always treat everything like it's about them. Newsflash humans, there's around 500 billion galaxies with billions of systems/planets in each of them. We're not alone in the universe, there's people way smarter than us out there, we do not have "The" God either.
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Posted 5/12/13
While I'm sure there are many who confess faith out of the terror of not, I think most people do not feel compelled to love their deity, especially not in the Christian faith. Now I could be horribly mistaken, since I'm not such a deity and do not know the hearts and minds of men, but most people I have interacted with do not appear to love God out of fear. I would say, from their words and actions, they love him because they want to feel loved in return and receive the various benefits of that. I'm not sure that is how they would say it, but that is how I would.

On the matter of the OT, I believe there is a singular entity referred to as God and I believe he was instrumental in the formation of reality. I have no real basis of this other than belief, but I am fine with that. Most of what I know comes from believing one thing or another. Definitive proof is the product of someone who just refuses to admit they could be wrong. I'm not saying you can't use your assumptions to realistically prove things, but the proof is in the pudding that may or may not exist.
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Posted 5/12/13 , edited 5/12/13



He seems to think to accept science is to disbelieve in god. :happy:
I am totally fine with him making brazen statements about me dis-beliefing in a higher power. let him.


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Posted 5/12/13
You sir are awesome! totally awesome. Thank you!
Posted 5/12/13
I think we all just need to love each other, accept and appreciate that we all believe in something different, and YOLOOOOOO ( or carpe diem for you older folk).
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