First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
Crunchyroll for Adults
Posted 8/30/12

crevallejack wrote:

This conversation would benefit from a CR chiming in and explaining why it is censored to begin with today. We are somewhat wasting our collective time and energy with only educated guesses to start from. That said, the Feedback/Suggestions is already full of posts on this topic and pretty much in line with what everyone is saying... if anyone with CR actually reads that.


Page four.
2337 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F
Offline
Posted 8/30/12

TerraGamerX wrote:

Censorship is an additional step of a third party's influence that forces alteration of an oringinal work into a variant that was not a part of the creator's ideals. To me censorship is vandalism of art.

DVDs are not a "solution" to censorship. As I mention often and will continue to reiterate: censorship loses my viewership very instantly. If I was repelled away from a show, you can bet that I'll have nothing to admire and drive a desire for buying a DVD of it. It is a loss of sales.

Censorship is unreasonable. And on the note of getting what we pay for, I absolutely cannot watch a show with censorship. So no, I am not getting what I want for this service in such cases. The difficulty is in changing the terms CR agrees with, but I believe it is possible (see above loss of sales) and that it would be the right thing to do.


Hentai is not pivotal to this topic, but extending the relevant points, it would not be an unreasonable addition. It would not be in anyway the focus of the site, and if you don't want to see it, you won't. But all content creators deserve to be compensated for their work, and that is the mission CR has done well. I've definitely gone on to buy artbooks thanks to means of discovery imageboards provide.


You probably already know but this is a business and sales are more important than whether the product is shown as how it's creator envisioned it to be. Remember that it's not the creator but the studio that pays for and works on animating the project so naturally it's not wrong for them to recoup and collect on its returns even if it means releasing a version that is proven to help move sales.

If you expect Crunchyroll to gain the rights to stream the uncensored versions, you and every other premium member will have to accept paying more than what you do now, which may seem unreasonable to those who don't take an interest or even have the privillage to watch the series in the first place.
20090 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / M
Offline
Posted 8/30/12

karmacide wrote:


crevallejack wrote:

This conversation would benefit from a CR chiming in and explaining why it is censored to begin with today. We are somewhat wasting our collective time and energy with only educated guesses to start from. That said, the Feedback/Suggestions is already full of posts on this topic and pretty much in line with what everyone is saying... if anyone with CR actually reads that.


Page four.


Thanks. Yeah, I saw that, but hadn't realized that the mods were CR employees or could speak for CR policy. They are/can I guess? If so, then ... I guess we just have to get over it.

69926 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / Colorado, USA
Offline
Posted 8/30/12 , edited 8/30/12

FallenYmir wrote:
If you expect Crunchyroll to gain the rights to stream the uncensored versions, you and every other premium member will have to accept paying more than what you do now, which may seem unreasonable to those who don't take an interest or even have the privillage to watch the series in the first place.


Actually on many occasion, for a very long time, I've been telling Crunchyroll that I'm willing to pay more than I currently am. I've done the math on multiple occasions and found: DVDs I'd be paying many dollars per episode (if purchased at a 1:1 rate of watching anime) whereas with CR I'm paying a dime or so per episode ($0.10 USD is a dime, for those outside the US) (I think $0.22 per was the actual value). DVDs are at the extreme of impossible for my rate of watching, while Crunchyroll is more generous than I would intend.

I even pushed the idea on multiple occasions in those Premium Member Surveys, which have faded (perhaps due to CR's growth stabilizing). I've most pushed the idea that CR introduce a per-episode donation system, user-specified value, as that will let users show where they want their money going, and reward quality stuff. For this topic in particular, I've alternatively suggested just doing a general 18+ membership. I'd pay for that too assuming the math still works out. While I am clearly okay with paying more, I prefer a "side solution" like these over raising the price for 100% of the audience. btw, I must note that I am super poor per unemployment: most meals are flour + flavorings (haven't bought gasoline in years).


Businesses do cross lines in pursuing profit, but the instances of obvious and deliberate censorship beyond what is even in the scope of their needs is genuinely immoral. And I really find it hard to believe that any increases to sales, when I'm far from one of a kind in being appalled by choosing to censor (accurate data there would require surveys). It's similar DRM in games and other media; those who sit on the fence about pirating will be motivated to avoid the purchase and get it without compensating.



I would assume that the moderators aren't involved in CR's business affairs. Though I can't be certain.
22690 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
33 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 8/30/12
I'll pay more just to have the option, but I'm not sure about the rest of the members. I don't mind censored when they use natural things to block it like hair just hate seeing fog that covers the entire screen or boxes, etc. I'm not sure how much each membership would have to increase or if they would have to create another membership group premium+ and charge those users $14.99 per month. Not sure if that would be enough though. Forcing every user to pay more when they might not like the product might hurt crunchyroll though would take a popup asking all their members if they would even be interested in this upgraded option before they go out and buy the rights to the uncensored versions though. And, if this has already been said before sorry i'm feeling lazy tonight and don't care to read all the post.
57301 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / somewhere over th...
Offline
Posted 8/30/12
I actually sent an email to CR asking about the increase in censorship. The response was pretty straight forward, because CR does not receive permission to show it uncensored. All of these shows eventually end up on DVD/Blu Ray and the people who own the rights want to make money off of their sales. It's really straight forward and easy to understand.
15835 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Chesapeake, VA
Offline
Posted 8/30/12 , edited 8/30/12

Kagerusui wrote:

This question is mainly buy not limited to the Admin/Mods of Crunchyroll but all members as well.

After researching a little about laws in the US I learned that children sex is illegal in the US. (Hentai)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_the_United_States
However I failed to find anything regarding Ecchi.

I opened this topic after watching some of the shows hosted here being censored to the point I grew tired of it or annoyed. I know that every mod so far have strictly said "NO TO HENTAI!" pretty much all over.

But what about Ecchi?
I understand that there are some Ecchi stuff on the site, but most of them are bashed with a black frame across my screen.
Why? >_<

So my main question would be, are we ever going to get an adult Crunchyroll or is there one already?
Is it being considered?, maybe Premium Users only?

If you are an admin or mod please reply with a better answer than "NO AND NO!"

The rest of us can discuss on this :)

Just to be clear, Hentai means animated porn, tentacle rape, etc.
Ecchi means perverted, boobies, etc.


CORRECTION: Lolicon/shotacon is not illegal. Obscene material is illegal(which can range from regular hardcore porn to bestiality in animated form). Obscenity charges are rare and hardly ever pursued unless the person has a "history". Like Japan's censorship law. There is no law specifically banning lolicon or even cartoons. If the lolicon is "indistinguishable" then it is illegal. But anime is not illegal. Lolicon is not illegal. Just ask the CBLDF lawyers. They even told me: "Lolicon is not de facto illegal or legal. Some loli images have sparked criminal cases."(pretty much straight up violent rape or 3-D). The Ohio Supreme Court even said it themselves in 2008: "Virtual child pornography is protected speech". There is a reason LRU, Flatchan, Lolibooru, Gelbooru, LAH, etc... have been up for year and known publicly yet have never been taken down.
Posted 8/31/12
interesting.
8802 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Gotham City
Offline
Posted 8/31/12
While these concerns are raised it's a prime opportunity to expand CR's domain. Let's have:

Crunchyroll:

- For Men
- For Women
- For Students
- For Pets
- For Expecting Mothers
- For Veterans
- For Labor Unions
- For Fast Food Workers
- For Child-like Adults
- For Adult-like Children
- For For For For's

Time to get busy Shinji. Let's expand CR!
2337 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F
Offline
Posted 8/31/12

Otaku2012 wrote:


Kagerusui wrote:

This question is mainly buy not limited to the Admin/Mods of Crunchyroll but all members as well.

After researching a little about laws in the US I learned that children sex is illegal in the US. (Hentai)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_the_United_States
However I failed to find anything regarding Ecchi.

I opened this topic after watching some of the shows hosted here being censored to the point I grew tired of it or annoyed. I know that every mod so far have strictly said "NO TO HENTAI!" pretty much all over.

But what about Ecchi?
I understand that there are some Ecchi stuff on the site, but most of them are bashed with a black frame across my screen.
Why? >_<

So my main question would be, are we ever going to get an adult Crunchyroll or is there one already?
Is it being considered?, maybe Premium Users only?

If you are an admin or mod please reply with a better answer than "NO AND NO!"

The rest of us can discuss on this :)

Just to be clear, Hentai means animated porn, tentacle rape, etc.
Ecchi means perverted, boobies, etc.


CORRECTION: Lolicon/shotacon is not illegal. Obscene material is illegal(which can range from regular hardcore porn to bestiality in animated form). Obscenity charges are rare and hardly ever pursued unless the person has a "history". Like Japan's censorship law. There is no law specifically banning lolicon or even cartoons. If the lolicon is "indistinguishable" then it is illegal. But anime is not illegal. Lolicon is not illegal. Just ask the CBLDF lawyers. They even told me: "Lolicon is not de facto illegal or legal. Some loli images have sparked criminal cases."(pretty much straight up violent rape or 3-D). The Ohio Supreme Court even said it themselves in 2008: "Virtual child pornography is protected speech". There is a reason LRU, Flatchan, Lolibooru, Gelbooru, LAH, etc... have been up for year and known publicly yet have never been taken down.


So what happened to that guy who went to Canada and was arrested cause he had loli pics on his laptop? Heard about it at least a year back but didn't bother to find out the rest since ibelazylol

69926 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / Colorado, USA
Offline
Posted 9/1/12 , edited 9/1/12

FallenYmir wrote:

So what happened to that guy who went to Canada and was arrested cause he had loli pics on his laptop? Heard about it at least a year back but didn't bother to find out the rest since ibelazylol



What happened to that guy was that the criminal charges were dropped. He was still fined or something on some technicality of customs problems, but there have been no genuinely negative outcomes of it. As a result of that change in direction, Canada's courts will probably take the same shift that Ashcroft v Free Speech Coalition caused in the US. That being, judges require both a victim and an act of crime, and they've understood that there is no victim [child] in such cases. Most criminal convictions related to anime as child porn are because the accused pleaded guilty. Because of laws not shaping this area well, there's still plenty who want to attack such and can carry it on with more ambiguities.

But this is off topic.




savorysack wrote:

I actually sent an email to CR asking about the increase in censorship. The response was pretty straight forward, because CR does not receive permission to show it uncensored. All of these shows eventually end up on DVD/Blu Ray and the people who own the rights want to make money off of their sales. It's really straight forward and easy to understand.

If that alone were it, which may very well be the reality, that would be terribly immoral. When is the last time that you listened to explicit music that inserted several really loud beeps, followed by them saying you can only get the uncensored version on CD (instead of $0.99 on iTunes or such). In cases like this, I feel like companies are acting like a thug and punching someone, then asking to be paid to not be punched again.


From what I've observed in the economy, in areas of successful markets versus ones always on the edge is that the most successful business formulas seem focused on getting as large of an audience as possible putting pricing as secondary priority. Having many chances at a smaller bit of revenue has a bigger impact than fewer chances at higher revenue, because in focusing on quantity you get a superior effect of propagation.

I don't finish a series with heavy censorship and have nothing upon which to motivate me to buy. That's only one potential source gone. But you can bet I won't be recommending it to any of my friends, and possibly doing to opposite. That's more potential sources gone. That's why propagating really works. If one guy tells 2 guys to try it, and those guys tell 2 to try it, that's a rapidly increasing number of potential sources.
2337 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F
Offline
Posted 9/1/12

TerraGamerX wrote:


savorysack wrote:

I actually sent an email to CR asking about the increase in censorship. The response was pretty straight forward, because CR does not receive permission to show it uncensored. All of these shows eventually end up on DVD/Blu Ray and the people who own the rights want to make money off of their sales. It's really straight forward and easy to understand.

If that alone were it, which may very well be the reality, that would be terribly immoral. When is the last time that you listened to explicit music that inserted several really loud beeps, followed by them saying you can only get the uncensored version on CD (instead of $0.99 on iTunes or such). In cases like this, I feel like companies are acting like a thug and punching someone, then asking to be paid to not be punched again.


From what I've observed in the economy, in areas of successful markets versus ones always on the edge is that the most successful business formulas seem focused on getting as large of an audience as possible putting pricing as secondary priority. Having many chances at a smaller bit of revenue has a bigger impact than fewer chances at higher revenue, because in focusing on quantity you get a superior effect of propagation.

I don't finish a series with heavy censorship and have nothing upon which to motivate me to buy. That's only one potential source gone. But you can bet I won't be recommending it to any of my friends, and possibly doing to opposite. That's more potential sources gone. That's why propagating really works. If one guy tells 2 guys to try it, and those guys tell 2 to try it, that's a rapidly increasing number of potential sources.


Can that be applied to Japan though? I know we do that here in the U.S. with 30$ boxsets, Toonami/Neon Alley/Streaming, and more, but parts of their model is quite the opposite. Some of these shows are broadcast late at night/early morning (11pm-4am) and the DVD/BD's are priced higher while having fewer episodes yet they still continue with it despite most people claiming the industry will self-implode.

After all, if they changed their pricing to be more like ours, they would need to hope that there are enough otakus who would double their current sales in order to match what they get right now.
Posted 9/1/12
Yes. Thank you for volunteering me, but I am too cool to be a mod.

Posted 9/1/12
Who caressss.
69926 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / Colorado, USA
Offline
Posted 9/1/12

FallenYmir wrote:

Can that be applied to Japan though? I know we do that here in the U.S. with 30$ boxsets, Toonami/Neon Alley/Streaming, and more, but parts of their model is quite the opposite. Some of these shows are broadcast late at night/early morning (11pm-4am) and the DVD/BD's are priced higher while having fewer episodes yet they still continue with it despite most people claiming the industry will self-implode.

After all, if they changed their pricing to be more like ours, they would need to hope that there are enough otakus who would double their current sales in order to match what they get right now.


Japan's economics aren't faring well. "The industry will self implode" (this has implications that do not mean "cease to exist). Simply it is reflected throughout most japanese businesses that most of them aren't very forward-moving. They don't want to deal with change in general, and minimize embracing the internet as a business medium.

Similarly, through this economic strife, plenty of US businesses have reflected how the flow of things have happened. There used to be plenty more companies. Funimation was the most rapidly adapting among them and now they've clearly taken center stage among dub companies, with Sentai Filmworks being in a decent second. The other companies that died out didn't change the way they made choices as much as these had.

So there is precedent, reason to assume that they're on a dangerous path. I think the reason that it's not quite as low of a point in the US is that there seems to be a greater rate of inheritance / large allowances for youth in Japan, spending with reduced responsibility. But as generations progress, the people capable of spending at such a rate will be stretched thin (unless of course the economy suddenly becomes rainbows and sunshine).
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.