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Gender Stereotypes
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27 / M / Gotham City
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Posted 9/8/12

tia-dalma wrote:


I didn't call you that. I said, "Please don't become one of those people." But evidently, you, just like the last fellow I've spoken to, are not telling me why that COULDN'T happen, why it's a poor scenario in your opinion, etc. : / If it was a belief and he was knocking it which he clearly was, I am going to call him out on it as I'm doing with you. It doesn't have to be a study, fact (at least not a known one,) or a statistic to be able to happen. So by all means, keep flinging insults as you do versus acting like a mature adult. It's working out so well for you already.



I'm not calling you an idiot, but please don't become one of those idiots. :)

Your assertion:

Your brilliant stereotype - "It's a lot easier to create a stereotype than you might think, because we leave that up to the majority, and like the popular saying goes, 'If Abercrombie & Fitch told people it was unpopular to breathe, 99% of the population would die.'"

"My entire point was that if Abercrombie and Fitch made that statement, and that statement was publicized which it most likely would be, I believe it would become a stereotype - kids would probably start believing breathing makes you unpopular."

These are all direct quotes from you.

My rebuttal:

- First off, regarding your belief that "it's a lot easier to create a stereotype than you might think." How many widespread (i.e. national or international) stereotypes have you or your friends and family created? Spreading a stereotype is like trying to spread a virus, it increases in frequency by spreading from one person to the next, through word of mouth, upbringing, mass media, etc. It takes quite a bit of time and effort to meld a stereotype in the psyche of a large population, and usually it has to have some perception of truth to it in order for it to be popular and told to the next person.

- Secondly, how realistic is your scenario in the first place? There's a lot of things wrong with your made-up stereotype.

1. Assuming every one of A&F's customers and fans listened to the advice that "it's unpopular to breathe" it would be nowhere near 99% death of the US population, much less the human population. Think of how many people there are who have never even heard of the brand. There are a lot of countries out there where A&F isn't popular, and even more countries that are too poor to afford it.

2. Why would a company, that succeeds, profits, and grows from more and more people buying more and more of its products, expound an idea that would kill its customers (granted that it even works)? There are more and more logical fallacies with your scenario/stereotype, that keeps adding up. It's sad that this was the best scenario you could come up with to support your argument. If you had used something like "All of A&F's clothing are made in third world countries by child laborers" then that would at least make sense.

- How would kids "start believing breathing makes you unpopular?" To the point of not breathing and killing themselves? Just because you "believe it would become a stereotype?" You need to take some classes on advertising, the name of the game is being subtle, misdirecting, and subconscious appeals. There's a reason why most products don't have commercials that blatantly state "buy our stuff" or "spend your money on this product." Instead there's a general showing of the product logo, with very little dialogue about the product, but a lot of sexual images, gratuitous violence, non-related comedic situations, etc. that do the actual selling. Kids wouldn't magically be convinced breathing makes them uncool just because an A&F PR guy said so.

I feel like I shouldn't even have to explain these things to you.


tia-dalma wrote:

At least I'm not some closed minded asshole who goes around thinking he's right about everything simply because what the other person is saying is so far off from what they believe.. If your definition of idiot is myself, then I'd rather be one than be you any day. And people wonder why we can't right the wrongs of the world when so many people like you appear to be stuck on them. Good bye then - I've come to terms with the fact that I can't persuade someone who won't even listen, and if you don't want to do that, I'm better off; I really don't and never did want you here. Just saying.


Funny, you insulted swordstyle multiple times, and definitely come off as the bigger asshole. Just more passive-aggressive about it like most women do. Oh noes, a gender stereotype?
Posted 9/8/12 , edited 9/8/12

Winterfells wrote:


tia-dalma wrote:


I didn't call you that. I said, "Please don't become one of those people." But evidently, you, just like the last fellow I've spoken to, are not telling me why that COULDN'T happen, why it's a poor scenario in your opinion, etc. : / If it was a belief and he was knocking it which he clearly was, I am going to call him out on it as I'm doing with you. It doesn't have to be a study, fact (at least not a known one,) or a statistic to be able to happen. So by all means, keep flinging insults as you do versus acting like a mature adult. It's working out so well for you already.



I'm not calling you an idiot, but please don't become one of those idiots. :)

Your assertion:

Your brilliant stereotype - "It's a lot easier to create a stereotype than you might think, because we leave that up to the majority, and like the popular saying goes, 'If Abercrombie & Fitch told people it was unpopular to breathe, 99% of the population would die.'"

"My entire point was that if Abercrombie and Fitch made that statement, and that statement was publicized which it most likely would be, I believe it would become a stereotype - kids would probably start believing breathing makes you unpopular."

These are all direct quotes from you.

My rebuttal:

- First off, regarding your belief that "it's a lot easier to create a stereotype than you might think." How many widespread (i.e. national or international) stereotypes have you or your friends and family created? Spreading a stereotype is like trying to spread a virus, it increases in frequency by spreading from one person to the next, through word of mouth, upbringing, mass media, etc. It takes quite a bit of time and effort to meld a stereotype in the psyche of a large population, and usually it has to have some perception of truth to it in order for it to be popular and told to the next person.

- Secondly, how realistic is your scenario in the first place? There's a lot of things wrong with your made-up stereotype.

1. Assuming every one of A&F's customers and fans listened to the advice that "it's unpopular to breathe" it would be nowhere near 99% death of the US population, much less the human population. Think of how many people there are who have never even heard of the brand. There are a lot of countries out there where A&F isn't popular, and even more countries that are too poor to afford it.

2. Why would a company, that succeeds, profits, and grows from more and more people buying more and more of its products, expound an idea that would kill its customers (granted that it even works)? There are more and more logical fallacies with your scenario/stereotype, that keeps adding up. It's sad that this was the best scenario you could come up with to support your argument. If you had used something like "All of A&F's clothing are made in third world countries by child laborers" then that would at least make sense.

- How would kids "start believing breathing makes you unpopular?" To the point of not breathing and killing themselves? Just because you "believe it would become a stereotype?" You need to take some classes on advertising, the name of the game is being subtle, misdirecting, and subconscious appeals. There's a reason why most products don't have commercials that blatantly state "buy our stuff" or "spend your money on this product." Instead there's a general showing of the product logo, with very little dialogue about the product, but a lot of sexual images, gratuitous violence, non-related comedic situations, etc. that do the actual selling. Kids wouldn't magically be convinced breathing makes them uncool just because an A&F PR guy said so.

I feel like I shouldn't even have to explain these things to you.


tia-dalma wrote:

At least I'm not some closed minded asshole who goes around thinking he's right about everything simply because what the other person is saying is so far off from what they believe.. If your definition of idiot is myself, then I'd rather be one than be you any day. And people wonder why we can't right the wrongs of the world when so many people like you appear to be stuck on them. Good bye then - I've come to terms with the fact that I can't persuade someone who won't even listen, and if you don't want to do that, I'm better off; I really don't and never did want you here. Just saying.


Funny, you insulted swordstyle multiple times, and definitely come off as the bigger asshole. Just more passive-aggressive about it like most women do. Oh noes, a gender stereotype? :o


To be honest with you, I'm not interesting in speaking to someone who doesn't want to take me seriously and wants to patronize me as you're doing when that is completely avoidable. If you want to act like a child, go find a child to talk to. There's no need for that - I never insulted you, but I did insult the person who insulted me, who is not YOU, so what exactly is with your attitude? We actually could have had a discussion had you not been as judgmental as you're being from the start - that goes for you, and that goes for him, so congratulations to both of you for knocking down what you aren't even trying to understand - not even attempting to see where someone else is coming from. You were doubtful right off the bat and that does make you incredibly closed minded, as he stated. I guess I should be thankful that you may not be acting this way because I'm a woman. You're probably just that way naturally.

Peace - I really hope you find some.

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Posted 9/8/12
Two things I disagree with:

swordstyle wrote:

A stereotype is the belief that a specific gender, race, or religion behaves a certain way or believes or prefers a certain thing.


Stereotypes only refer to gender, race, or religion? If instead of, "Rich white kids wear A&F," I said, "Rich kids wear A&F," am I no longer holding a stereotype? Or is being a rich kid a matter of gender, race or religion? I always thought stereotypes could be held about any group in general, and the above three were just really prevalent.

swordstyle wrote:

Because in order for a stereotype to exist, it has to be known by an enormous number of people.



Why can't one person hold a stereotype? If every Italian I've ever had dinner with ordered Sushi, I might start to think that Italians like Sushi. I feel like, even if I'm the only one that thinks that Italians like Sushi, I'm still stereotyping Italians.

All that aside, I had a good laugh from that argument. Her straight man act was awesome, if only it were an act.
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27 / M / Gotham City
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Posted 9/8/12
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26 / M / Seattle, and ever...
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Posted 9/8/12
^ Winterfells, that is probably one of the best rebuttals I've seen on CR so far. If you can even call it that.
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Posted 9/8/12
Even if everyone stopped saying "women aren't good at math," it wouldn't change the fact that there was a vast majority of men in my higher math courses. The stereotypes simply exist as an observation of a trend. If we really wanted equality, wouldn't we be better off telling women to take some higher math courses rather than attacking stereotypes? The stereotypes would likely go away if they had no basis in fact.
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20 / M / Canada
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Posted 9/8/12
Though I hate to say it but women (well most anyway) are bad drivers. It's a fact
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25 / M
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Posted 9/8/12 , edited 9/8/12

SlimShadyDogg wrote:

Though I hate to say it but women (well most anyway) are bad drivers. It's a fact


http://www.insurance.com/auto-insurance/safety/are-men-better-drivers-than-women.aspx
emokey 
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23 / California
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Posted 9/8/12
One of the common annoyances that i have to deal with is gaming.
People generalize that females are bad gamers.
<- rank 1 season 9 2850 rating disc priest get @ me.
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21 / M / Australia
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Posted 9/8/12

emokey wrote:

One of the common annoyances that i have to deal with is gaming.
People generalize that females are bad gamers.
<- rank 1 season 9 2850 rating disc priest get @ me.


Dang, that's sick, I haven't played in a while, I can't remember what I am >.<
emokey 
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23 / California
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Posted 9/8/12
i bet you were pretty good (:
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Posted 9/8/12 , edited 9/8/12

deejayvee wrote:

"Why do people try to put gender into stereotypes"

Several reasons, but generally the same as any other stereotype really.

Reason one, because they form a false hypothesis through observation. If you see an event happen multiple times, eventually your brain will try to process the cause and effect of the scenario. If you see eggs dropped from a height of a meter several times(each one of a different creature), and each time the egg shatters on contact with the ground, by the fourth time you see the egg dropped, you will probably expect to see an egg break open, even if the egg won't break this time because it had a harder shell than the others. The same can be said of stereotypes regarding people: if your experience with a group involves a certain type of behavior, you will come to expect that behavior from the group. This is called an illusory correlation, as one presumes a relationship between two things that doesn't actually exist.

Reason two, because it benefits them. Sometimes people use stereotypes as a way to justify their actions against another group(like segregation), to attempt to gain an advantage as compensation for a perceived weakness(double standards) or to show how they are superior in some way(conformity). It's pretty simple, really... It's natural to want anything that gives you a leg-up over someone else.

Reason three, basic instinct and ways of thinking makes things simpler. It's understandable if you're ignorant/naïve and don't want to jump to conclusions, but if you have experience, you're going to want to use it. If you get attacked by a lion in the wilds, you'll probably keep your head down the next time you see one. That's fight-or-flight thinking. If you hesitate, thinking "maybe this one won't attack" you may get yourself killed. When it's used to categorize people, though, it generally causes you to classify them in binary terms: 'good or bad' 'better or worse' 'superior or inferior' and the like. This kind of thinking is frowned on.

Reason four, conformity. Stereotypes are basically engines of conformity. Like with peer pressure, if "everyone's doing it", and you want the approval of everyone, you're likely to do it as well. However, conformity ends up 'confirming' the stereotype, closing options for the people involved. Gender roles are a primary example of this.

Now, stereotyping(and it's cousin prejudice) are not always bad... Like I mentioned in reason three, sometimes you need these things to function rationally. It's only a problem when they're false, which is usually bad for the one being stereotyped against. This is unfortunate, but it's very difficult to break a false stereotype or one that doesn't apply to everyone. Education can help or hurt depending on just how accurate the stereotype(which is a belief that may or may not be true) is. Of course, it wouldn't be considered a stereotype if it were always true since it would be a fact instead of a belief. But most people will accept a stereotype if it is accurate 95% of the time.

Also, I agree with both of theYchromosome's comments.
Posted 9/9/12

tia-dalma wrote:

Yeah, the problem with that belief comes from the fact that not all men are nor will they ever be stronger and able to "beat the crap out of women" - so thanks for basing the entirety of your post on yet another stereotype. This I have witnessed with my own eyes. And I love how you assume that having physical strength would mean you were stronger overall. So basically if someone shot your beliefs straight to hell, you could totally feel better by socking them in the face and calling it a day, never mind the fact that when you're alone in a room by yourself, you have nothing because they DID take that away from you. Put a woman who thinks more than she acts in one room, and a man who relies on brute strength in another - we'll see who comes out on top after 2 weeks of being stuck in said situation.
The man who relies on brute strength will knock a hole in the wall and escape
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23 / M / only kami neko knows
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Posted 9/9/12

staphen wrote:

Even if everyone stopped saying "women aren't good at math," it wouldn't change the fact that there was a vast majority of men in my higher math courses. The stereotypes simply exist as an observation of a trend. If we really wanted equality, wouldn't we be better off telling women to take some higher math courses rather than attacking stereotypes? The stereotypes would likely go away if they had no basis in fact.


The most intelligent thing I've read so far
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Posted 9/9/12

deejayvee wrote:

I'm a firm believer in equality, I personally believe that the only differences between male and female are the body parts. I believe whatever a man can do a woman can do and vice versa.

I saw a post just now, that really made me think - "Why do people try to put gender into stereotypes"

There are some genuinely smart people on here, and I would really like to know what you think


but its just like this if a female stays a virgin she is cute and innocent but if a male dose he is a loser.and if i girl sleeps with a lot of guys she is a slut but if a guy sleeps with a lot of girls he is a pimp. i guess there will always be stereotype.
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