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How much do you think piracy contributed to it?
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29 / M / Lethbridge, Alber...
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Posted 11/23/12
I prefer to pay for services rather then Pirate. However since service is limited to certain Particulars for Example some anime arent subbed but purely sold Dubbed. that when Id pirate for subs. So Piracy Isnt completely to blame it the Service availbe that Is to blame. If Bandai and all them that are going down Under then theyre just not going about a better Bisness. Funimation and CrunchRoll are great contributors towards Anime sales but Obviously its not enough at least thats how I see it. since maybe only 30% of People that use CrunchyRoll or Funimation or other similar Streaming Service actually pay for the premium service. Whilst Ive heard the Excuse of hearing people not being able to pay for such services, I know for a fact they are lying. goto Japan I see waaay poor'er still and theyre still BUYING their interest of anime/manga. So to break it down Piracy isnt the main Contributor to it, but rather how the Companies are.

If people wont pay for 1 series just cause it sucks (even thou they may be still regularly watching it) that just says theyre not serious about their interests.

If the Companies cant Find more ways to Distribute its the same.
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Posted 11/23/12

Myskers wrote:

I agree with Zora. The only reason why I've bought anime DVDs - and this year is the only year that I've done so - is because of CrunchyRoll's daily deals.

Streaming is where it's at. Physical media is going to become a niche market, and we all know that. Netflix streaming is huge, lots of people have dropped cable subscriptions and the like for Hulu or Netflix or whatever. This "cord cutting" is across the spectrum, it isn't just an anime thing.

Yet we have these companies that want to charge $100+ for these boxes, or crazy high prices for just a few episodes (I'm looking at you, Madoka). Whoever are running these companies want very badly to believe that they exist in a vacuum. To their minds, this "newfangled Internet thing" is all about pirates.


The fact that box sets are a niche market is exactly why the price skyrocketed. If they cut the price in half, would they get over double the sales, therefore making more money? No; niche markets don't respond well to price cuts.
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Posted 11/23/12

JayVeeDees wrote:


wrote:

Tell me a bit more about how good they were at marketing with the buying fans always complaining about them and stuff. Oh, I'm sorry, were we meant to blame piracy for their dumbness?


Agree.

Piracy is not a problem with the people, its the company's fault. No one would pirate a product that is great, if it isn't then we get these people that say "hmm.. I'll pirate this anime to see if its any good..." And probably 60% of the time they wont bother paying for it anyway, unless the person has at least some moral sense. We do also have that category for those people who don't have enough money to buy the anime, I think its wrong for them to take down a Anime nevertheless, but there are people out there like that. But as the quote said, its a problem with the company at first, then the people, even the people at Steam agree with this (You should know what Steam is )

This is just the company pointing fingers at pirate's, as a way to pass the blame for their own mistakes, if it weren't for pirate's Anime would be almost unknown in Europe, and probably all places outside of Japanese language fields. [Beside America because of Funanimation, but it would still be very unknown]


This is a very ignorant. Sorry if this offends anyone, but if you can get something for free, why would you pay for it? Do you honestly think any company wants to throw away profits? It all comes down to value. The greater the demand for a product; the more value it has. Therefore, the more popular anime, the more likely it is going to be pirated because it brings greater value for pirates. Your comment, "And probably 60% of the time they wont even bother paying for it anyway" contradicts yourself. To summarize what you're saying, people will only pirate stuff for things that suck.

When doing business, it is all about your business strategy. I am certain that all companies that involve some form of digital product are prone to piracy. Some businesses are doing better than others because of how they modify their business plan to address this issue. So yes, companies do go out of business because of piracy. Still, it all comes down to having the right people at the top. Why do you think CEOs get paid so much?
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36 / M / Ohio
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Posted 11/23/12 , edited 11/23/12
Here's my thought's on it, because I don't think piracy (aka fansub of licensed product) is a cut and dry argument.

Economy - When the us economy tanked, people cut back.

License Costs - For a while Japanese company over valued the us market and charged a lot of money for license rights

Fansubs - Fansubs of licensed material or continued use of it after it became licences hurts sales. However I don't believe the 1 pirate viewing automatically equals one lost sale.

Legal Streaming (Lack of) - In this coming digital age, lack of streaming hurts your exposure.

Anime collapse in Japan - A while back Anime news network did a series of interview with different high profile in the anime industry. One was all doom and gloom, that anime in japan will collapse, all be outsourced to other countries and exist only to sell toys. The head of Gainax, on the flip side just felt there was too much produced, and the junk anime will collapse, the industry will shrink but will still be around and healthy once it shrinks.

I also hope people realize the parent company of Funimation, Navarre , has been for a while looking for a company to sell / offload Funimation to. The good news is they don't want to just "dump" the company, they want a good home for it that will keep it going and make it prosper.

Studio Ghibli (think Miyazaki) is been tittering on ceasing to exist. If it wasn't for Disney/Miyazaki and the us market, they be under all ready.

Though about contributing factors on specific companies

Geneon - Not sure what happened, they just stopped without warning.

CPM - I think lack of new content, and dwindling sales of older content put them between a rock and hard place.

Bandai Enteratinemnet - They seemed to be making the transition from old anime business model to new one.

Media Blasters - I thing similar issues as CPM

TokyoPop - Not sure what happened

ADV - I think they tried to do way too much, too many titles. In essence over extended themselves. They actually planned well, redistributed licesnes before they closed up shop.

What complicates the anime fansub situation is the history of fansubs. Japanese companies allowed, and didn't mind fansubs of unlicensed product because it was responsible for getting anime out there and created a demand where licensing could happen.

Legal changes in Japan could change things to. Japan has recently passed several RIAA/MPAA style laws and made piracy penalties much more heavy then they ever been. Not sure how this will translate to the companies that willing turn a blind eye to unlicensed fan subs.

I do want to say this, US anime license companies tend to actually care about there product and it's consumers, vs the US movie industry being more cold / business like and very anti-consumer friendly at times. I think some of people issue's or arguments about piracy is ok is based on the actions of the US movie (and RIAA) about trying to change laws, legal action of lawsuits, etc. The majority of anime license companies don't behave like this.

Banned
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34 / M / The Void.
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Posted 11/23/12 , edited 11/23/12
The world's economic system will totally and utterly collapse. It is inevitable.
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24 / M / USA
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Posted 11/23/12


This is amazing. Thank you.
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18 / M / Long Beach
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Posted 11/23/12
Piracy is something that EVERY digital source has to deal with nowadays. What it's come down to is essentially this: people watch/listen to things that they should have paid for, for free. Then, if they really like it, they'll choose to support the publishers by buying their stuff.

It happens all the time with iTunes. I pirate music off of YouTube (mostly because I can't buy JPop or anime OP's on iTunes), and if I like the artist, I'll support him by buying an album or donating to him.
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26 / M / Upstate NY
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Posted 11/23/12
Wouldn't say that those companies weren't victims from piracy, but just of business suicide.

Did you ever shop in those places i have and the prices were completely ridiculous, best deals i got when they were closing up shop. Piracy of anime i would view as minor/ actually beneficial. Before coming to CR i did a lot of pirating but in saying that i also bought those same series i pirated and others over time.

People will still buy product (DVD, figures, posters, games ..etc) if it well made and reasonably priced ... you can't do one without the other in this day and age otherwise you bring what happens on yourself.
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30 / M
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Posted 11/23/12
Lets face it, piracy made anime popular.
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18 / M / Tórshavn
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Posted 11/23/12

plainknights wrote:


JayVeeDees wrote:


wrote:

Tell me a bit more about how good they were at marketing with the buying fans always complaining about them and stuff. Oh, I'm sorry, were we meant to blame piracy for their dumbness?


Agree.

Piracy is not a problem with the people, its the company's fault. No one would pirate a product that is great, if it isn't then we get these people that say "hmm.. I'll pirate this anime to see if its any good..." And probably 60% of the time they wont bother paying for it anyway, unless the person has at least some moral sense. We do also have that category for those people who don't have enough money to buy the anime, I think its wrong for them to take down a Anime nevertheless, but there are people out there like that. But as the quote said, its a problem with the company at first, then the people, even the people at Steam agree with this (You should know what Steam is )

This is just the company pointing fingers at pirate's, as a way to pass the blame for their own mistakes, if it weren't for pirate's Anime would be almost unknown in Europe, and probably all places outside of Japanese language fields. [Beside America because of Funanimation, but it would still be very unknown]


This is a very ignorant. Sorry if this offends anyone, but if you can get something for free, why would you pay for it? Do you honestly think any company wants to throw away profits? It all comes down to value. The greater the demand for a product; the more value it has. Therefore, the more popular anime, the more likely it is going to be pirated because it brings greater value for pirates. Your comment, "And probably 60% of the time they wont even bother paying for it anyway" contradicts yourself. To summarize what you're saying, people will only pirate stuff for things that suck.

When doing business, it is all about your business strategy. I am certain that all companies that involve some form of digital product are prone to piracy. Some businesses are doing better than others because of how they modify their business plan to address this issue. So yes, companies do go out of business because of piracy. Still, it all comes down to having the right people at the top. Why do you think CEOs get paid so much?


if you can get something for free, why would you pay for it? That's why I said if anyone out there has some moral sense they would buy it afterwards, sure my 60% isn't right, I was just giving a estimate of what I was thinking.
I'm not saying that pirates don't affect a company, but there's always a part of the company's fault when people pirate, sure there are those with popular fan base f.x. Naruto, and then people will pirate it because of that it's so popular to check it out, but as I said some will go onto to support it if they like it enough, sure there are those people that don't care about the well being of the company, and therefore don't do shit about it.

Sorry I did say it wrong -.- There's a problem with the people who are just, well, cyber-criminals But I do stand by my reasoning that the company is often also at fault.
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Posted 11/23/12
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47 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 11/23/12
i think streaming, Legal or not, is/was a definite contributer to the failure of anime importing/translating companies. For the longest time they were the only game in town. It was a much better game than waiting for a friend to let you copy a copy of a copy of a betamax tape smuggled on a passenger plane from Japan, it was a better value than trying to learn Japanese or watching while trying to read from a handheld hardcopy translated script.

But times change. Nowadays people are a watching a fully subbed anime often less than a week after it airs in japan. Buying from Geneon/Pioneer USA, Funimation, ADV etc. means waiting two years for the various stakeholders to get their licensing act together. How do importers compete? Value added? what's there to add? Dubs? (let's not open THAT can of worms)

I think this is the real 'damage done' to the 'industry' it's not the creators, Anything beyond Japanese sales has to be profit. Half the time they don't even bother to offer up a product for export. The importers on the other hand...



Posted 11/23/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

It was a much better game than waiting for a friend to let you copy a copy of a copy of a betamax tape smuggled on a passenger plane from Japan, it was a better value than trying to learn Japanese or watching while trying to read from a handheld hardcopy translated script.


haha

god that brings back memories.
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Posted 11/23/12

karmacide wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

It was a much better game than waiting for a friend to let you copy a copy of a copy of a betamax tape smuggled on a passenger plane from Japan, it was a better value than trying to learn Japanese or watching while trying to read from a handheld hardcopy translated script.


haha

god that brings back memories.


Kids these days with their streaming. They don't know how rough we had it. (Uphill, both ways, in a snowstorm )

But seriously, Another thing I suspect that Streaming is killing (Just like Netflix helped take down Blockbuster) is the local gaming/comic book store's anime section. (or the local specialty video store.) I don't think it Anime streaming hurt blockbuster though. the Miyazaki collection a 14 random episodes from 5 different series. (plus perhaps a misplaced copy of Urotosukidoji) do not count as an anime selection.

desh92 
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22 / M / Ringgold, Georgia
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Posted 11/23/12
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