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M4(or other 5.56 guns) vs AK 47 (or other 7.62 guns)
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26 / M / Arizona
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Posted 10/9/12 , edited 10/10/12
We have a "should people be allowed to have guns" thread, thought i would bring this debate to CR.

So like the title says, which gun (or round) do you prefer and why?

Personally, i like the M4 better. Well, less the M4 and the 5.56 round it fires. Lighter bullet, faster round = more accurate. Honestly though I am a much bigger fan of the Scar/ I have shot an M4, full auto, and a full auto scar (gun range by me lets you rent "machine guns" and they lump full auto assault rifles in with them. And i have to say, the Scar is much more fun to shoot, for me at least.

and for those who arent familiar, 5.56 is a higher pressure .223
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55 / M / Out on a limb
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Posted 10/9/12
Weird thread for CR, but I'll bite.

7mm-08, best hunting round in existence. Although that doesn't seem to be your focus...

For machine-gunning, I'd want to have an M60, firing 7.62 NATO. So, even though that's a somewhat longer round that your Russki ammo, I guess that puts me in that column.

Although I do hear that being on the side with the M-16 (granddaddy of your M-4) tends to mean the other guy runs out of ammo first. Heavier bullets means fewer rounds carried and all that...
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26 / M / Arizona
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Posted 10/9/12
half the threads in this category are random as hell.

but yea, 762 you usually dont carry as much ammo.

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34 / M / MN
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Posted 10/10/12
I think the 7.62x39 is a better round over the 5.56, but I like the layout of an AR style rifle way more than I do that of the AK style.

7mm-08, that's kind of an odd ball round IMO, but I suppose it would work effectively for most game on this continent.
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23 / M / Gensokyo
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Posted 10/10/12 , edited 10/11/12
Well, the purpose of the 5.56 is to tumble once it enters the body to cause some internal damage, whereas the 7.62 passes straight through leaving a nice hole behind in most cases. Overall I think I prefer the 7.62 NATO round though.

Edit: My mistake then about the tumblez. ^^
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Posted 10/10/12

crash1187 wrote:

We have a "should people be allowed to have guns" thread, thought i would bring this debate to CR.

So like the title says, which gun (or round) do you prefer and why?

Personally, i like the M4 better. Well, less the M4 and the 5.56 round it fires. Lighter bullet, faster round = more accurate. Honestly though I am a much bigger fan of the Scar/ I have shot an M4, full auto, and a full auto scar (gun range by me lets you rent "machine guns" and they lump full auto assault rifles in with them. And i have to say, the Scar is much more fun to shoot, for me at least.

and for those who arent familiar, 5.56 is a higher pressure .223 and a 7.62 is more or less a .308


The AK-47 round is definitely not "more or less" a .308 win.


Fatalvirus wrote:

Well, the purpose of the 5.56 is to tumble once it enters the body to cause some internal damage, whereas the 7.62 passes straight through leaving a nice hole behind in most cases. Overall I think I prefer the 7.62 NATO round though.



The 5.56 wasn't designed to tumble; you might be thinking of the 5.45x39, for which the AK-74 is chambered.

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Posted 10/10/12
Ya as tootired already mentioned, the 5.56 NATO wasn't really designed to tumble, but rather to fragment on hits due to its high velocity and bullet makeup. The Russian 5.45x39 was designed to readily deform and tumble when it hits, causing a massive wound channel in proportion to its small size. For those wondering, the ballistics for both the 5.56 and 5.45 are very comparable as well, with the 5.45 having an edge in a lower impulse, weight, and hard target penetration (versus the M855 at least), while the 5.56 has better ballistic consistency and a bit more energy.

As far as 5.56 versus 7.62x39, it just really depends on what, how and where you are shooting. There is more bullet drop with with 7.62, so it takes more skill when shooting past 100m, but after you learn to compensate for the drop you can still effectively engage 300-600m with little issue. The extra mass of the 7.62x39 also gives you better controlled accuracy in windy situations, and is much more effective when you have to shoot through brush. The 7.62x39 can also turn concrete walls into shrapnel which gives it better suppressing capabilities in urban environments. As was mentioned before the 5.56 is lighter so the logistics is better with it. The 5.56's low impulse and flat trajectory also make it easier for an inexperienced shooter to shoot effectively with and when paired with a longer barrel can be used at longer ranges more effectively than the 7.62x39 too. Both are great rounds if used appropriately.
toxxin 
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24 / In my own little...
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Posted 10/10/12
what about the 5.45 x 39? (Ak 74) same ballistics as the 556 same releliability as the ak and the mag size is increased by a few rounds.
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19 / M / The Sarlacc Pit
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Posted 10/10/12
I think it depends too much on the situation to really be arguable. If I was, say, hunting zombies, I would pick the 5.56 all day, just because it is lighter and won't have as much kick, letting me get on target faster.

On the other hand, if I am shooting at actual people, I would probably choose the 7.62 just for the extra kick.

Honestly, we can debate all day whether the 5.56 or 7.62 is better, but it probably comes to preference nine times out of ten.



P.S I think 5.56 is the more common round used in America among civilians, could play a role in choice.
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31 / M / Waste lands of NY.
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Posted 10/10/12 , edited 10/10/12
Yeah, doesn't tumble. It fragments.




oh and if you use 5.45 don't use it inside with concrete it will bounce around
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26 / M / Arizona
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Posted 10/10/12

tootired wrote:


crash1187 wrote:

We have a "should people be allowed to have guns" thread, thought i would bring this debate to CR.

So like the title says, which gun (or round) do you prefer and why?

Personally, i like the M4 better. Well, less the M4 and the 5.56 round it fires. Lighter bullet, faster round = more accurate. Honestly though I am a much bigger fan of the Scar/ I have shot an M4, full auto, and a full auto scar (gun range by me lets you rent "machine guns" and they lump full auto assault rifles in with them. And i have to say, the Scar is much more fun to shoot, for me at least.

and for those who arent familiar, 5.56 is a higher pressure .223 and a 7.62 is more or less a .308


The AK-47 round is definitely not "more or less" a .308 win.


Fatalvirus wrote:

Well, the purpose of the 5.56 is to tumble once it enters the body to cause some internal damage, whereas the 7.62 passes straight through leaving a nice hole behind in most cases. Overall I think I prefer the 7.62 NATO round though.



The 5.56 wasn't designed to tumble; you might be thinking of the 5.45x39, for which the AK-74 is chambered.



more or less, as in a lot of people probably wouldnt notice too much difference.. the .308 has higher pressure, you could use a 7.62 in a .308 rifle, but the other way around my eff up your gun because of the higher pressure. dimension wise the .308 is less than 1/100th of an inch shorter. For most people, a .308 would probably be the closest round to an actual 7.62 that they would have shot. If i were talking to people who shot a lot and had a lot of guns, by no means would i have said they were similiar. But again, i assume, most people on crunchy roll dont have an armory in their basement and go shooting 10+ hours a week, year round.

In short, if you dont feel like reading all that, the .308 comparison was for the average people who rarely, shoot. I was comparing it to a round that was closest to it that most people would easily be able to have access to.
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26 / M / Arizona
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Posted 10/10/12

M1keymike1 wrote:

I think it depends too much on the situation to really be arguable. If I was, say, hunting zombies, I would pick the 5.56 all day, just because it is lighter and won't have as much kick, letting me get on target faster.

On the other hand, if I am shooting at actual people, I would probably choose the 7.62 just for the extra kick.

Honestly, we can debate all day whether the 5.56 or 7.62 is better, but it probably comes to preference nine times out of ten.



P.S I think 5.56 is the more common round used in America among civilians, could play a role in choice.


shot placement. you could kill someone with a .22. A .22 thru the eye will do just as much damage as a .40 through the eye ( not literally, but in the fact that theyre dead either way)
toxxin 
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24 / In my own little...
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Posted 10/10/12 , edited 10/10/12

crash1187 wrote:


more or less, as in a lot of people probably wouldnt notice too much difference.. the .308 has higher pressure, you could use a 7.62 in a .308 rifle, but the other way around my eff up your gun because of the higher pressure. dimension wise the .308 is less than 1/100th of an inch shorter. For most people, a .308 would probably be the closest round to an actual 7.62 that they would have shot. If i were talking to people who shot a lot and had a lot of guns, by no means would i have said they were similiar. But again, i assume, most people on crunchy roll dont have an armory in their basement and go shooting 10+ hours a week, year round.

In short, if you dont feel like reading all that, the .308 comparison was for the average people who rarely, shoot. I was comparing it to a round that was closest to it that most people would easily be able to have access to.


the 7.62 cartridge youre thinking of is a 7.62.x 51mm NATO round, the ak is chambered in the 7.62 x 39mm Soviet round. they are certainly not interchangeable. the diameter of the bullet may be the same but thats literally all the rounds have in common.

heres a good picture to compare the rounds in question:


and yes i have an armory in my basement/bedroom.
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31 / M / Waste lands of NY.
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Posted 10/10/12
Yeah seriously would NOT suggest using a 7.62x39 in your 7.62x51 rifle I don't even know how you would make it fit anyway.
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26 / M / Arizona
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Posted 10/10/12 , edited 10/10/12

toxxin wrote:


crash1187 wrote:


more or less, as in a lot of people probably wouldnt notice too much difference.. the .308 has higher pressure, you could use a 7.62 in a .308 rifle, but the other way around my eff up your gun because of the higher pressure. dimension wise the .308 is less than 1/100th of an inch shorter. For most people, a .308 would probably be the closest round to an actual 7.62 that they would have shot. If i were talking to people who shot a lot and had a lot of guns, by no means would i have said they were similiar. But again, i assume, most people on crunchy roll dont have an armory in their basement and go shooting 10+ hours a week, year round.

In short, if you dont feel like reading all that, the .308 comparison was for the average people who rarely, shoot. I was comparing it to a round that was closest to it that most people would easily be able to have access to.


the 7.62 cartridge youre thinking of is a 7.62.x 51mm NATO round, the ak is chambered in the 7.62 x 39mm Soviet round. they are certainly not interchangeable. the diameter of the bullet may be the same but thats literally all the rounds have in common.

heres a good picture to compare the rounds in question:


gah, your right. i was in the middle of cleaning my scar 17 when i made this post lol. so i was thinking x51
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