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Post Reply Crunchyroll...now in HD on the PlayStation 3! And we're giving away a PS3 to celebrate!
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24 / F / Over hereeeee~
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Posted 10/13/12
720P!? FINALLY!!!

This app has purpose now ; w; (now how about getting me my 1080? :> )

Welp time to turn on and tune in, thanks Crunchyoll = w=b
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M
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Posted 10/13/12
I will participate.
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Posted 10/13/12
video? i give up already
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20 / M
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Posted 10/13/12
Challenge Accepted.
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18 / M
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Posted 10/13/12
That's great 720p is a great improvement and all of us probably are waiting for the1080p but its probably going to take some time to get all the bugs and stability that users of crunchyroll desire.
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25 / M / fort worth
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Posted 10/13/12
WOW yall look great! AND YES I WILL WIN!

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Posted 10/13/12
Nice!

It's good to see improvements in paid services!
GO CR team!
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30 / M
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Posted 10/13/12

agila61 wrote:
It will depend in part on what series you watch.

A number of TV series in the past year have been moving to higher mastering resolutions, as the Japanese market has been moving to Blu Ray over DVDs. However, while some titles are mastered at 1440x810 or 1600x900, other stuff still seems to be mastered at 1280x720, where there is no loss in native resolution at all in streaming at 720p.

Even for something mastered at 900p ~ for example, people looking at 1080p RAWS from Japanese TV of FateStay/Zero think it has 810p backgrounds and 900p lineart ~ that's only a 20% downscale, where the 480p is a 47% downscale. And for material created at 810p, 720p is only a 12% downscale, while 480p is a 41% downscale.

720p is a 33% downscale from 1080p masters, but that only really comes into play for materials on film or for movies originally created at 1080p for digital movie projection.


downscaling the full size for various resolutions isn't really the problem with it looking bad. you really lose more quality by upscaling... so what would makes it look bad is stretching a lower resolution pixel format over a larger area.
at a smaller size 360p looks just as good as a 1080p video. stuffing a 1080p video in a 360p space won't mean 1080p video still looks better though so depending on the size of the screen it wouldn't make sense to always stream the highest resolution possible.

if they aren't actually mastered at 1080p then anytime you watch a 1080p stream what you're really watching is a 810p or 900p stream having been stretched up to 1080p. so at best you're getting half of the jump in pixel data between 720p and 1080p for cost of the full 1080p cost in bandwidth. meaning they really don't look that much better.

i'm not saying there won't be a difference there. just that i seriously doubt it's worth the extra bandwidth to stream 1080 over 720 since the actual artwork in an anime isn't likely to be detailed enough for the difference to really be near as noticeable.
with live action film there's a lot of detail to be gained by shooting in a higher resolution. with anime it ends up being more of a "how crisp are the lines?" kinda thing.
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Bjaker 
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34 / M / San Francisco
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Posted 10/13/12
Hey guys!

Let's try to keep posts in here a bit more on topic!

For those of you who need help with the PS3 app, please feel free to use the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the page to reach out to the CS team.

Alternatively you can head over to the forums and post there for help:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-771376/playstation-3

If you want to give Feedback on where you want HD next from CR, go let us know in the Suggestions forum:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-4/suggestions-read-the-first-post
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17 / Texas
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Posted 10/14/12
when does this end?
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21 / M
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Posted 10/14/12
So... when does the update actually kick in? I've been watching a good amount all day and I haven't seen any 720p visuals.
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25 / M / NY
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Posted 10/14/12
Sadly I can't make a video because aliens will start tracking me again but the HD update is great news.

Good luck to everyone and bring back the live show or I'll sue!
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44 / M / The Woods
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Posted 10/14/12
It would also be good if the PS3 app was more widely available.
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20 / F / mars
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Posted 10/14/12
heh i would like to join the contest but i already got a PS3 and I'm pretty happy!
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26 / M / Surrey, Britsh Co...
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Posted 10/14/12
I really wanna win that Ps3 .... it's one of a kind, ... too bad I don't do vlogs
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53 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
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Posted 10/14/12 , edited 10/14/12

holyknightjoshua wrote: downscaling the full size for various resolutions isn't really the problem with it looking bad. you really lose more quality by upscaling... so what would makes it look bad is stretching a lower resolution pixel format over a larger area.

Yes. And the people who are complaining have big screen HD TV's they want to watch the anime on. That's the point of the PS3 channel for a lot of people: its the device that is already connected to the big screen HD TV, so it lets them watch anime on the big screen.

And 360p on a 1080p-HD looks awful fuzzy. Heck, it looks awful fuzzy to people like me, watching Bakemonogatari on a 13" 720p LCD TV next to my bed.


if they aren't actually mastered at 1080p then anytime you watch a 1080p stream what you're really watching is a 810p or 900p stream having been stretched up to 1080p. so at best you're getting half of the jump in pixel data between 720p and 1080p for cost of the full 1080p cost in bandwidth. meaning they really don't look that much better.

We aren't talking about lossless full pixel transmission, we are talking about h.264 compressed video. For anime, there will be come detail lost to compression either way, but you really are going to get some of that extra bandwidth going to filling in extra detail on background art.

Sure, its all upscaled, so the difference between 720p and 1080p on big screen 1080p TV's is not as dramatic as the difference between 720p and 1080p for something that has been mastered in 1080p or higher, like 2K digital cinema or 35mm film. The masters are normally Japanese HD broadcast television tapes, 1440x1080 anamorphic (rectangular pixels), so its always upscaled by 33% along the the rows to make a 1920x1080 image.

if its produced at 1440x810, its been upscaled by 33% in the vertical columns when mastering the broadcast television tape.

If its produced at 1600x900, its been upscaled by 20% in the vertical columns and downscaled by 10% in the horizontal rows to make the broadcast television tape. That's what seems to be the effective resolution{*} of the lineart in FateStay/Zero, and the 4:5 upscale in one dimension and 10:9 downscale in the other is excellent for avoiding artefacts.


i'm not saying there won't be a difference there. just that i seriously doubt it's worth the extra bandwidth to stream 1080 over 720 since the actual artwork in an anime isn't likely to be detailed enough for the difference to really be near as noticeable.

OTOH, the animation production studios are clever about doing things to help the bottom line in a cost effective way, and one of the things that helps their bottom line is selling BD discs instead of DVD discs. So you will see more detail in a lot of background art than was normal three years ago, and they'll use tricks to cut production cost like the higher resolution 2D CGI effect for clothing in Utakoi and Chihaya Furu, where filling that clothing in with more realistic 3D rendering would cost substantially more.

There is a perceptible difference in a lot of series, at least when played on big screen TV's, but OTOH when you slice the Crunchyroll membership three ways ~ first by those who watch the series where there is a difference in the first place, second by those that have a set-up where the difference is easy to see, and third by those who really care about the difference ~ the jump from 480p to 720p is naturally more important than a jump from 720p to 1080p would be.

_________
Note: {* Effective Resolution: the information on effective resolution of various animation art assets is not insider information. Its from fans who take full resolution captures from RAW downloads from the Japanese HD television broadcast, and go through a process of downscaling the image and upscaling it back, and check what is the lowest downscale they can do before there starts to be a loss in detail. So they'll downscale to 900p, then 810p, then if necessary 720p, 540p and 480p, and upscale each back to 1080p, and see at what point detail starts to be lost in various art assets ~ background art, lineart, 3D CGI, 2D CGI. Flash video offers the choice of 360p, 480p, 720p and 1080p, so if something has an effective resolution of 540p, then streaming it at any higher resolution than 720p is not going to do any good. But if the effective resolution of the lineart is 540p and the effective resolution of the background art and CGI is 810p, then streaming at 1080p is going to give some extra detail that is lost at 720p.}
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19 / F / Cαℓιғσяиια, Sʋи Ѵ...
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Posted 10/14/12
THTS AWESOMEEEE

bt i dnt kno how to make videos n put on youtube tho :(

i really want a PS3

i only hav Dsi and Xbox 360 wit Kinect
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25 / M / PALO ALTO, CA
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Posted 10/14/12
Glad to see that videos are now in HD on the PS3; I have definitely started to watch more anime on my PS3. The crunchyroll app is awesome.

Now I can rewatch my favorite Naruto episodes via the ps3.
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Posted 10/14/12

agila61 wrote:
Flash video offers the choice of 360p, 480p, 720p and 1080p, so if something has an effective resolution of 540p, then streaming it at any higher resolution than 720p is not going to do any good. But if the effective resolution of the lineart is 540p and the effective resolution of the background art and CGI is 810p, then streaming at 1080p is going to give some extra detail that is lost at 720p.


i understand what you've been saying but what i've been saying is that the small bit of detail gained going from a 720p anime stream to a 1080p one isn't worth the extra bandwidth. i was never talking about watching a 360p video on a large tv. i was talking about 720 vs 1080 streams and how there really isn't really enough detail in an anime for the difference in upscaling to matter that much. especially considering how often gradients are used in anime background paintings and how well they stand up with upscaling.

don't get me wrong i like nice artwork as much as, and often times more than, the next guy but a gain just for the backgrounds from 720p to a slightly higher 810 or 900p isn't going to really be noticed as much as a gain for the characters. since for the most part your eyes are pulled towards the characters. not towards the background and your brain kind of fills in the blanks of what you're not focused on so you generally don't notice just how fuzzy your peripheral vision is.

the resolution of the screen vs it's size is also a factor. a 13 inch 720p screen should in theory look just as good as a 1080p 19.5 inch screen as far as crispness and hold up better than a 1080p screen larger than that while playing things at their native resolution.

another thing you need to take into consideration is that the closer you are to the screen the more you'll notice the fuzziness from the upscaling. i've got a large hdtv with a home theater pc plugged up to it. in cases like that people tend not to sit that close to the screen which diminishes the loss of definition on the characters at 720p a bit vs the gain for a 810 or 900p resolution.
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Posted 10/14/12 , edited 10/14/12

holyknightjoshua wrote: i understand what you've been saying but what i've been saying is that the small bit of detail gained going from a 720p anime stream to a 1080p one isn't worth the extra bandwidth.

Whether it is or not depends on the viewer. There's no doubt that for some series there is extra detail there on the Crunchyroll 1080p streams ~ more than would be there on live action streamed at 1080p at the same bitrate, even if the live action was filmed at 1080p, because the motion is animated rather than live action, so the motion in the video places less demand on the same bandwidth, and there is more bandwidth to give to background details.


the resolution of the screen vs it's size is also a factor. a 13 inch 720p screen should in theory look just as good as a 1080p 19.5 inch screen as far as crispness and hold up better than a 1080p screen larger than that while playing things at their native resolution.

another thing you need to take into consideration is that the closer you are to the screen the more you'll notice the fuzziness from the upscaling.

All of which sits under the heading of how visible the difference is to the viewer on their particular setup. My point was:

Percentage of subscriber who are catered to by a particular resolution upgrade to PS3 streaming is:
(1) Percentage of subscribers who watch the series where there is a difference x (2) the percentage of subscribers who care about the difference between the PS3 resolution and higher resolution x (3) the percentage of subscribers who have a set-up where they'll notice the difference x (4) the percentage of viewers who can more easily stream to a large TV with a PS3 rather than computer or PC media center.

That percentage is going to be a lot bigger for going from 480p to 720p than going from 720p to 1080p:

(1) Almost every series except a few old catalog titles get the 720p benefit, not every series gets an actual 1080p benefit

(2) Practically everyone who cares about the 1080p difference also cares about the 720p difference, some people care about the 720p difference but don't really care about the extra jump to 1080p.

(3) Everyone who can see the difference going to 1080p can see the difference from 480p to 720p, some people can see the 720p benefit but not the 1080p.

(4) The people who are real HD video connoisseurs are most likely to have an HD media center or HDMI/PC setup.

So it could be, as a random example:
- for the jump from 480p to 720p, 90% x 80% x 75% x 20% = 11%
- for the jump from 720p to 1080p, 60% x 40% x 40% x 10% = 1%
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17 / F / smell ya later
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Posted 10/14/12
Hmm, I may or may not decide to enter this. Either way, I'm ready for those videos. This'll be interesting...
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