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Post Reply Your opinions on Islam and Muslims in General?
3371 cr points
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23 / M / Pandemonium
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Posted 5 days ago , edited 5 days ago



1. So then you do acknowledge that islam is discriminatory against women?


2. But is it not obvious that the Quran was a product of its time, rather than something that is always relevant even today? Because it's not at all relevant today in terms of how to live one's lives...
Sure, back then it made sense that the man was the authority and that the women were homebound, but that stuff is completely obsolete now.

All other religious people believe that their religion is the only true one as well. Yet most of them still do not think that it is right to force other people to believe in it. But alright, I get it, seeing as you believe in hell and all... But how far exactly do you think you should go in that regard? Will you FORCE your children to be muslims?
And regardless of whether you do or not, it is inevitable that some children will grow up to become non-muslims. And then what? Will Allah punish the parents for that? And what will you do if your children leave the faith? If they become apostates?

And is Allah not supposed to be loving and merciful? If so, then why does he send people to hell?


3. No, she's NOT allowed to marry freely.
What you're describing is nothing more than a case of "here, we've picked out some people that we will allow you to marry, and you can pick the one you like the best out of the ones that we have picked out/approved of".
But that's not free choice. That's not being allowed to marry freely. To marry whomever she wants. If she was allowed to marry freely, she could marry anyone she wanted. Be it a muslim, non-muslim, man, woman, whatever.

So does the woman actually have a say in things? Or does the man get the final word every time? Does the woman get to make decisions sometimes that the man may not agree with? Or does she always have to submit to his will?
And does the man always have to be out working? Is it not allowed for the woman to be the breadwinner and for the man to stay at home tending to the house and to the children?

Okay, but so what were to happen if the man didn't provide a dowary? And why doesn't the woman have to provide a dowary?


4. Okay, so just humor me for a second here... You do agree with me that such a rule is completely arbitrary, right?
I mean, whether one is a virgin or not makes no tangible difference, unless she got children or sickness from it. But barring that, it makes no difference in any practical way.
And yet it still is forbidden?
Like, okay I get that you believe in this, but do you agree that it is arbitrary? And perhaps a little ridiculous and discriminatory?

And by the way... what if it is the man that is not a virgin? If the man is not a virgin, but the woman IS. What then?
And what if either party had been previously married, but had gotten divorced or their spouse had died or whatever?


5. We pay respect to our parents here in the secular world as well. But just because we're being respectful, doesn't mean we let them run our lives. We are individuals with our own lives. And our lives are OUR lives, not theirs. And they have no right to control them is if they were theirs. Showing someone respect does not mean you have to bow to their every whim. That's slavery and emprisonment, not respect.

And in that regard, it is disrespectful of the parents not to allow their offspring to have their own lives. Wanting to control someone else's lives is one of the most disrespectful things a person can do.
Should respect not be mutual? Why would you respect someone who refuses you to live your own, independent life?

Are there any differences between women and men in terms of what professions they are allowed to take or recreational activities they are allowed to partake in?
nrj
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Posted 5 days ago , edited 5 days ago
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."

1- if islam is like what you said why god put only One condition for woman to marry non muslim
and it's easy condition , on other hand he put three condition's for men to marry non muslim

2- what you say about qur'an is your opinion , muslims believe it's Valid in every place and time

3- I will raise my children to love this religion , I will let them study qur'an and know the right and wrong and not by force , I will show them the true islam ,if I raise them like that there is no way they think to be a non-muslims , because when islam enter the believer heart it's Impossible to leave , and if they became apostates , and it's rare in islam , I will ask them why they did that and of course they will have many question's that is making them became apostates , I will try to answer them and return them to the right way.

allah will punish the parents if they Failed and abandoned to raise their children the religion of Islam
Allah is loving and merciful for the one believing in him and obey him

3- OMG... did i have to say it more and more , ok i will tell you the story of Khadija


the man have to pay dower , Even if it's $ 10 only , or only a gold ring
and no woman can't pay dower but she can take the dower and buys stuff for her and her husband

4- it's has no difference for you not for us muslims , because we want to marry a pure woman that has no ( sin's ) in her life
and no I don't agree that it is arbitrary
read the verse that I wrote before in no.4
any muslim girl will not marry someone slept with other girl before Marriage because he did a sin
it's ok to marry divorced and Widow woman
by the way if the girl is not virgin but she convert to islam before marriage he can marry her , because all what she did in the past will be Deleted and she will be a new person

5- OH MAN .... I WILL LOVE TO BE A SERVER TO MY PARENTS , may god protect them and
Give me the strength to serve them for the rest of my life ..... Ameen
because after god thier satisfaction about me will make me go to heaven

by the way : you asking so much about islam ... do you want to convert
3371 cr points
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23 / M / Pandemonium
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Posted 5 days ago , edited 4 days ago



1. Indeed. One option for women. Three options for men. Do you not find that discriminatory?


2. It's not a matter of belief. It's about observable reality. When observing the world today, it is clear that there is no reason for why men HAVE to be the breadwinners instead of the women, or why women have to obey men rather than being the ones in charge, or why women cannot be the heads of the family rather than men. And a lot of other things for that matter, but let's stick to that.
Looking at the world objectively, it's rather clear that those sorts of rules are no longer necessary. They are outdated. They served their purpose in the past, but they are now obsolete.
It's just pure fact.
Now if you still want to live by those rules, then that's another thing entirely, but that doesn't make those rules any less outdated or obsolete from an objective point of view.

And if you cannot turn them back into believers? What then?
And as for why apostasy is so rare in islam... would you care to remind me what the islamic punishment for apostasy is? According to Sharia law, what is the punishment for apostasy?

So what you're saying is that Allah's love is conditional? Is that what you would call real love?
"I love you, but only as long as you obey me"? If I had a relative or a spouse who said that, I would abandon them in a heartbeat.
Not to mention that whether you like it or not, there are things that the parents cannot control about their children. If that was the case, no children would abandon the religion of their parents. But they do. And there will always be factors that the parents cannot control. And so it is entirely possible that the parents did as best as they could, and yet that still didn't make a difference in the end.
Would Allah punish them for that, even though they tried as best as they could?
And also -- what would the punishment be?


3. That's all well and good. But what would've happened if the uncle didn't approve? If he had said "No! I will not allow you to marry her!"
What then?

And I ask once again:
Does the woman actually have a say in things? Or does the man get the final word every time? Does the woman get to make decisions sometimes that the man may not agree with? Or does she always have to submit to his will?
And does the man always have to be out working? Is it not allowed for the woman to be the breadwinner and for the man to stay at home tending to the house and to the children?


4. No, it has no actual, physical difference to you either. Muslims' bodies are not constructed any differently than that of non-muslims.
The only difference is the difference it makes in your mind. That is all the difference there is.
And you CONFIRM that that is the only difference when you tell me that it's okay that the girl is not a virgin so long as she converts to islam, or when you tell me that it's okay to marry a widowed woman.
That means that there is no actual, physical, tangible difference between a virgin and a non-virgin. There is no difference other than the difference it makes in your mind.

And that does in fact make it arbitrary.
Just like the ban on homosexuality.


5. I would prefer it if you would give an actual response rather than snarky sarcasm.
And so I will ask again:
a. Is it not emprisonment when you are not allowed to make your own choices and have to run everything through your family and not being able to live your own independent life?
b. Are you saying that respecting one's parents means that one has to bow to their every whim?
c. What gives the parents the right to control their children's lives as if they were their own lives?
d. Is it not disrespectful of the parents to not let their children live their own lives when they have grown into adults?
e. Why would you respect someone who is trying to take your freedom away?
f. Are there any differences between women and men in terms of what professions they are allowed to take or recreational activities they are allowed to partake in?

As for if I want to convert... no. As I have stated earlier, I find religion to be repulsive. I used to be religious, but I have washed my hands off that filth, and I have no desire of going back. Certainly not now that I realize the extraordinary lack of evidence to back up the existence of God, as well as the laughably low amount of credibility that the scriptures of the abrahamic religions actually have.

The reason I ask is two-fold. For one, because I always want to have a better understanding of things. A better understanding gives more nuance. And more nuance means you'll be able to observe and deduce reality more accurately, as well as have more productive conversations/debates with those who have opposing views.

Second reason is because I want to pick your brain a little. I'm interested in seeing how you defend your religion and its teachings in a debate, and to which degree you are able to justify the archaic teachings of your beliefs (not that we have really touched upon the truly archaic stuff with this debate, though. But you know...), as well as how accurate my own knowledge of your religion is, and how well I am able to counter-argue your points.
nrj
156 cr points
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middle east
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Posted 4 days ago , edited 4 days ago
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."


OK .... first you say that you find religion repulsive ... alright
so i'm not Wasting my time on someone think what i'm saying is Nonsense, because I know that you know about my religion very well
but you want me to say anything that you used to make my religion look's bad to People who's reading it ..... right ....
if you want to understand my religion better you can go to the islamic center and take some books and read
and if you want to see how muslims defend thier religion ask the
islamic center to talk to a Shaikh because he will be studying islam better than me and he will answer your question's
if you say islam is Racist -Violent - Oppressed women it's your opinion
but my religion is the fastest growing religion in the world http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqf7iFGuWKE
and woman is more than men ( for every 1 man 4 woman convert to islam )
sorry i'm not answer your question's because I prefer to read qur'an or pray better than
making someone pick my brain .

والسلام على من اتبع الهدى
3371 cr points
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23 / M / Pandemonium
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Posted 2 days ago , edited 2 days ago

nrj wrote:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."


OK .... first you say that you find religion repulsive ... alright
so i'm not Wasting my time on someone think what i'm saying is Nonsense, because I know that you know about my religion very well
but you want me to say anything that you used to make my religion look's bad to People who's reading it ..... right ....
if you want to understand my religion better you can go to the islamic center and take some books and read
and if you want to see how muslims defend thier religion ask the
islamic center to talk to a Shaikh because he will be studying islam better than me and he will answer your question's
if you say islam is Racist -Violent - Oppressed women it's your opinion
but my religion is the fastest growing religion in the world http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqf7iFGuWKE
and woman is more than men ( for every 1 man 4 woman convert to islam )
sorry i'm not answer your question's because I prefer to read qur'an or pray better than
making someone pick my brain .

والسلام على من اتبع الهدى


You seem to have misunderstood.
First of all, I'm not saying that what you're saying is nonsense. After all, I never asked you to convert me. I am asking you questions because I am curious about what you believe. Sure, I have my own thoughts about islam and about religion as a whole, but while I've gotten plenty of opportinities to speak with christians, I seldom get the chance to speak with muslims. And as such, I am lacking understanding about their point of view. About how they make logical sense of their beliefs. And I am genuinely interested in hearing from you.

I am not asking you to say things that make your religion look bad. I have plenty of material and scriptures that can do that already. As well as just merely pointing a finger in the direction of the middle east and its state of human rights development (or lack thereof).
I am just interested in hearing your own point of view on things. And understanding how you think and how you justify the things that I disagree with.

And going to an islamic center is out of the question. For several reasons.
For one, because there is none in my vicinity. But also because that would require larger amounts of time of my days, which I do not have to spare. By speaking to people through the internet, I can get a regular addition of understanding without having to dedicate hours of my time a day to it.

In regards the growth of your religion... well, for one, that growth is mostly related to birth-rates rather than people being converted (And also for a lack of deconverts, no doubt in relation to the views that islam has on apostates and the punishment it demands for the act of apostasy. Which I'm sure you know what is).

And second, even if it was -- that's still not an argument for its credibility. Remember, there was a time when christianity was spreading like wildfire (and then through conversion rather than birth rates), and that was AFTER islam was established. Yet I don't suppose you are about to leave islam in favor of regular christianity just because of that?
teima 
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Posted one day ago , edited one day ago
I like the reverence and seriousness I've seen it practiced with.
I believe that some people go way off the reservation with it. Or use it to further a personal agenda. However that happens with a lot of things.

I think a lot of the intellectual criticism comes off as pedantic
Or ignorant, arrogant and bolstered by that western/european idea of Civilization vs. Savagery and the need to bring order where there is perceived to be none. We must show everyone the "right way of doing things" As is our solemn duty. Like we're Adam in the Garden tasked divinely to name the animals surrounding us.


nrj
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middle east
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Posted one day ago

Syndicaidramon wrote:

You seem to have misunderstood.
First of all, I'm not saying that what you're saying is nonsense. After all, I never asked you to convert me. I am asking you questions because I am curious about what you believe. Sure, I have my own thoughts about islam and about religion as a whole, but while I've gotten plenty of opportinities to speak with christians, I seldom get the chance to speak with muslims. And as such, I am lacking understanding about their point of view. About how they make logical sense of their beliefs. And I am genuinely interested in hearing from you.

I am not asking you to say things that make your religion look bad. I have plenty of material and scriptures that can do that already. As well as just merely pointing a finger in the direction of the middle east and its state of human rights development (or lack thereof).
I am just interested in hearing your own point of view on things. And understanding how you think and how you justify the things that I disagree with.

And going to an islamic center is out of the question. For several reasons.
For one, because there is none in my vicinity. But also because that would require larger amounts of time of my days, which I do not have to spare. By speaking to people through the internet, I can get a regular addition of understanding without having to dedicate hours of my time a day to it.

In regards the growth of your religion... well, for one, that growth is mostly related to birth-rates rather than people being converted (And also for a lack of deconverts, no doubt in relation to the views that islam has on apostates and the punishment it demands for the act of apostasy. Which I'm sure you know what is).

And second, even if it was -- that's still not an argument for its credibility. Remember, there was a time when christianity was spreading like wildfire (and then through conversion rather than birth rates), and that was AFTER islam was established. Yet I don't suppose you are about to leave islam in favor of regular christianity just because of that?


بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

First I want to say something ….that I apologize If I was not nice Toward you , I was thinking about what I was saying to you and I realize that my Behavior is not right
and I have to be more Patient and kind when I reply your questions , so please everyone don't take my Previous Behavior and say it's from the teaching of Islam
it's my personal behaving , Allah tell us in the Qur'an : ( Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way ) ,
if I make any wrong thoughts about Muslims by my Behavior I say that I'm sorry ,i will be more nicer in my answers so that I can Represent my religion in a better way
I will try my best to answer your Previous questions as much as I can , but there will be some questions that maybe I can't answer because it's difficult to Explain it and if I do maybe you will get a wrong thoughts because of my answer , so it has to be answered by a sheikh or an Islamic teacher , alright ….maybe I will put some videos too
So I apologize one's again for my mistakes and my misunderstood....

و السلام على من اتبع الهدى

3371 cr points
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Posted 21 hours ago , edited 5 hours ago

nrj wrote:
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

First I want to say something ….that I apologize If I was not nice Toward you , I was thinking about what I was saying to you and I realize that my Behavior is not right
and I have to be more Patient and kind when I reply your questions , so please everyone don't take my Previous Behavior and say it's from the teaching of Islam
it's my personal behaving , Allah tell us in the Qur'an : ( Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way ) ,
if I make any wrong thoughts about Muslims by my Behavior I say that I'm sorry ,i will be more nicer in my answers so that I can Represent my religion in a better way
I will try my best to answer your Previous questions as much as I can , but there will be some questions that maybe I can't answer because it's difficult to Explain it and if I do maybe you will get a wrong thoughts because of my answer, so it has to be answered by a sheikh or an Islamic teacher , alright ….maybe I will put some videos too
So I apologize one's again for my mistakes and my misunderstood....

و السلام على من اتبع الهدى




Don't worry about it. I'm not the kind of guy to get super-bummed about a person being nasty to me over the internet. Besides, you weren't being nearly as nasty as you could've been. Compared what a lot of other people on the internet are like, you were being soft and silky in your response.
But thanks for the concern, though.

And don't worry. Even though I have a sour spot towards religion, it's not like I can't seperate impatience and annoyance from religious zealotry.

I do hope that you will try to answer my question, and do it without being afraid of how your answers make your religion look.
Because keep in mind that I am not actually interested in hearing about the teachings of Islam. Especially since one individual's interpratation is exactly that. Just one interpratation amongst many, and would in all likelyhood not convert me. Especially seeing as it wouldn't change my overall view on religion as a whole. Not to mention that I know enough about the religion as well as the things that it's associated with to know that it's not for me and that I don't believe in it.

What I am interested in, is your point of view on things, and how you are able to justify --to yourself -- the things that I disagree with and the things and the teachings in religion that I find to be repulsive, and which caused me to lose my faith and abandon religion altogether.
I think you should know that up front, so that I don't give you false hopes of perhaps being able to convert someone. Because chances are, that's not going to happen.
So that you can choose in advance based on that whether or not you will bother with it. If you don't, then I totally get that. So no pressure.
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100 / M / San Francisco, USA
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Posted 21 hours ago
Here are my personal opinions on Muslims:

There are good Muslims.
There are bad Muslims.
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