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Post Reply New Catalog Titles: Broken Blade
jikap 
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Posted 10/21/12
We Europeans really need some sort of shared licensing system. We loose too many titles simply because it's too expensive / complicated to license anything for our various countries, lol.
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Posted 10/21/12


manic221 wrote:


manic221 wrote: i just think that CR need too start talking with distributors in Europe (that aren't associated with Kaze) and also if possible just pick up the distribution for the UK ala Netflix and Breaking Bad, I don't think Americans understand how hard it is too get anime legally in the UK because they have so many sites that provide it.

Netflix is working on an entirely different level: given the size of their subscription base, they can afford to double contract a lot easier than Crunchyroll can.

If Crunchyroll could work out a deal with a European distributor that was a package deal, where Crunchyroll could expanded streaming rights for a number of series, that is one way to get around the contract cost problem, because it would be one contract spread across multiple series. Really, that's how they could get these five catalog titles ... four of them are from the same distributor, so that's almost certainly a package deal.


I believe Netflix only just made 1 million subscribers in the UK but your right if necessary they can pull money from there US subscribers but your right i doubt CR have anything near 1 million subscribers in the whole of Europe let alone the UK by it's self.

Didn't know 4 of the 5 titles where owned by the same company in that case your right a package deal would certainly be a good way around it. I just think we pay the same as you but get significantly less.

I will reiterate again i'm not upset i started paying mostly for SAO so as long as they keep giving me SAO each week i'll be happy after that theirs a few other shows i'm watching Simulcasts keep me happy but it would be nice too have more catalog titles. As we are paying the same price as you guys in the United States.

This whole thing as me worried though lets say someone bought the rights for SAO in the UK does that mean conceivable they could pull the show from Crunchy? or are CR's deals set up in such away that even if that where to happen i'd still be able to watch SAO?

One final word SAO better get a second series! lol where getting very close too the end now i want more

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Posted 10/21/12 , edited 10/21/12

akai_ryu wrote: Americans, I believe that you don't understand the problem. The current situation only generate disconfort in the foreign members. Therefore, the size of membership outside US / CAN don't rise if the number of release shows for our regions don't rise firstly.

Then since the number of simulcast shows available outside US/Canada has risen substantially over the past two years, the membership should increase as well.

I understand that problem perfectly well ~ I lived for a decade in Australia, so its not like I'm unable to imagine the problem from the other side. But the "solution" that some people always suggest is a lower price for members outside of the US, based on what fraction of series they have available, with the cost of a subscription going up for almost all subscribers outside of the US every time Crunchyroll succeeds in getting a "world outside of Japan" and "world outside of Asia" license and going down every time Crunchyroll gets a North America only sublicense.

But that means that royalties generated outside of US/Canada will drop, so fewer licensors will bother to offer rights outside of US/Canada, so the numbers of shows released outside of US/Canada will drop, which will make the problem worse.

I never said there isn't a problem, I said that the problem is not an easy problem to solve. I'm sure Crunchyroll is aware of it, and I'm sure that they are working on it ... because if they were not working on it, we would not have seen the Sentai sublicenses expanding outside of US/Canada and start including UK/Ireland, Australia/NZ, (some or all) Nordic countries, and South Africa over the last year.


Moreover, if you say that there are few members in UK, so how many are in Latin American? How many time we must wait for our situation improve?

I didn't say there are "few", I said there are "TOO few", or "not enough". Each member only generates a small amount of revenue per series they watch, compared to DVD/BD sales, and so although a few thousand of DVD/BD sales can cover contracting costs, you need tens of thousands of members to cover contracting costs for a streaming simulcast.

There are surely thousands of members from the UK or from Latin America, maybe over ten thousand, but not tens of thousands ~ at least not yet ~ so the numbers are below the numbers needed to allow double-contracting.

One big way to cut contracting costs is to do a package deal. So if, for example, Crunchyroll could work out a package deal to get streaming right for the FujiTV noitaminA block for (say) Latin America, Africa and the Middle East for a year (where Funimation has been getting most of the US/Canada rights), that would be eight seasons of series (four seasons per year times two series each season in the block) in a single contract. Then if its successful, and they generate enough royalties for FujiTV's noitaminA block to convince them its worth the trouble, they would be able to renew the contract, and a contract renewal is even lower contracting costs.

That's why I've said package deals are the only realistic way for Crunchyroll to be able to get any contracts that do not include US/Canada. With the views from those subscribers locked out, there's no realistic way to cover the contracting costs of an individual simulcast contract, and certainly no way to cover the contracting costs of a catalog release.


manic221 wrote: I believe Netflix only just made 1 million subscribers in the UK

Yeah, a million ... your evidence proves my point: with the kind of subscriber base that Netflix can attract, contracting costs are a much smaller issue.

Crunchyroll passed 100,000 worldwide earlier this year, so Netflix has about ten times as many subscribers in the UK as Crunchyroll has worldwide, and fifty to a hundred times as many members as Crunchyroll has in the UK. So obviously with the kinds of numbers that Crunchyroll has, contracting costs are a much bigger hurdle.

In other words, putting "only just made" in front of "million" does not make 1,000,000 any smaller: money ignores adjectives, and focuses on the number itself.


manic221 wrote: I just think we pay the same as you but get significantly less.

People in Africa (outside of South Africa), the Middle East, and Europe outside of Northern Europe get significantly less across the board, so they'd be advised to only subscribe if the long running series plus a handful of seasonal series that they have available are worth it to them. People in the UK/Ireland, Australia/New Zealand, and South Africa get moderately less, at least as far as simulcasts go.

The reason that UK/Ireland, Australia/New Zealand and South Africa get as many as they do is that they can share costs of those series with US/Canada members. Without the US/Canada members covering so much of the contract, subtitling and mastering costs, either the subscription price would have to be much higher, or the selection would be much smaller. Plus, the Japanese contractors prefer licensing rights out to those seven English Speaking Countries in a single block, instead of piecemeal, which gives you an added boost.

And yes, of course you get less for the same price. Getting an identical number of series for UK or Latin American member would cost substantially more. So the demand to get the same number of series for the same price, despite the much, much higher cost per person of getting the last four to six series to you, is saying, "I want you to spend some of the revenues from US and Canada on us to make sure that we get the same number of series as US and Canadian members".

Sure the pricing is unfair, but its not Crunchyroll that is being unfair, it is financial reality that is being unfair. I was used to paying twice the US cost for paperbacks when I lived in Newcastle, NSW ... I noticed it, because I was used to lower prices, but I didn't complain about it, because a market of 20m is just going to cost more to serve than a market of 350m with something as sensitive to economies of scale as offset printing.


The Wise Wizard
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Posted 10/21/12

manic221 wrote:
I believe Netflix only just made 1 million subscribers in the UK but your right if necessary they can pull money from there US subscribers but your right i doubt CR have anything near 1 million subscribers in the whole of Europe let alone the UK by it's self.

Crunchyroll announced about 6 weeks ago that they had passed 100,000 paid subscribers (worldwide):
http://www.crunchyroll.com/press-release/2012/09/10-1/crunchyroll-streaming-service-surpasses-100000-premium-subscribers

If CR's subscription rates followed their traffic, the U.S. and Canada would account for close to half of those subscriptions (with Canada only accounting for a few percent). Due to the U.S. and Canada having the biggest catalog, I suspect they actually account for 60% or more of the subscription base.



This whole thing as me worried though lets say someone bought the rights for SAO in the UK does that mean conceivable they could pull the show from Crunchy? or are CR's deals set up in such away that even if that where to happen i'd still be able to watch SAO?

Some deals are set up to allow CR to continue to stream if another company purchases home video (and streaming) rights, others are not. Kadokawa series could always be counted on to disappear from CR if they were licensed by another company for home video.

If for example, CR's contract for SAO were written in such a way that they had to surrender rights if it were licensed for home video, it is quite unlikely they would pull the show, but instead they would not doubt announce they show would no longer be available in the UK after a certain date.

As I understand it, however, unless a show is a sub-only home video release, a UK company going it alone for a home video license is rare.

SAO is also licensed to CR by Aniplex, which often handles home video releases on their own, and has shown they certainly aren't averse to CR streaming a show after home video release.

Assessment: I would say the odds of you losing access to SAO anytime in the foreseeable future is low.

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Posted 10/21/12


Ah okay CR's subscription base is much lower then i assumed it was.

Oh and thank you for you assessment of how CR's licencing work you've certainly rested my fears of possibly loosing one of my favorite shows ever (anime or otherwise) i love everything about SAO and would certainly get a DVD/ Blu-Ray if one where to be released in the UK i was worried about the simulcast disappearing half way through it's run or something. Haha thanks again for that
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 10/21/12

manic221 wrote:
Oh and thank you for you assessment of how CR's licencing work you've certainly rested my fears of possibly loosing one of my favorite shows ever (anime or otherwise) i love everything about SAO and would certainly get a DVD/ Blu-Ray if one where to be released in the UK i was worried about the simulcast disappearing half way through it's run or something. Haha thanks again for that

I've never known of any simulcast to be permanently removed during its run, and I am quite confident CR's contracts always include terms that prohibit that.

I have seen some simulcasts temporarily removed due to licensing issues and later restored, but even those rare incidents have only happened in the first week or two.
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Posted 10/21/12

TheAncientOne wrote:


manic221 wrote:
Oh and thank you for you assessment of how CR's licencing work you've certainly rested my fears of possibly loosing one of my favorite shows ever (anime or otherwise) i love everything about SAO and would certainly get a DVD/ Blu-Ray if one where to be released in the UK i was worried about the simulcast disappearing half way through it's run or something. Haha thanks again for that

I've never known of any simulcast to be permanently removed during its run, and I am quite confident CR's contracts always include terms that prohibit that.

I have seen some simulcasts temporarily removed due to licensing issues and later restored, but even those rare incidents have only happened in the first week or two.


That's cool then the next worry is whether if SAO did get a second series which i hope it does hopefully that would also be licenced by CR which i'm guessing is a pretty good possibility so long as Kaze or something like that don't decide too bid for the UK rights.
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Posted 10/21/12
So... back to the original topic, this is a great mecha battle series! Yes, I have already watched the first four episodes... when do we get more??? Episode four ends in a cliffhanger, argh...

To those who can't see this I feel bad as it is well done. We are starved for mecha anime lately and this tides me over nicely. Yes, we have Muv Luv but it is more of a harem romance comedy over the backdrop of brain eating alien invasion horror with a bit of mecha combat every few episodes between beach and party fillers... while Break Blade I mean Broken Blade is pretty much wall to wall mecha combat with a bit of intrigue and backstory sprinkled on top of an interesting magic system.
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Posted 10/21/12 , edited 10/21/12

hpulley wrote: So... back to the original topic, this is a great mecha battle series! Yes, I have already watched the first four episodes... when do we get more??? Episode four ends in a cliffhanger, argh...

As soon as they get the materials and get them encoded ... they often seem to get a start on that between getting the rights and when they are allowed to start streaming, but after that they come out as they get processed. Like they say in the announcement:

Premium users will get all episodes as they become available.

At least with a catalog title there won't be an additional delay to get them subtitled.


TheAncientOne wrote: SAO is also licensed to CR by Aniplex, which often handles home video releases on their own, and has shown they certainly aren't averse to CR streaming a show after home video release.

It does seem likely the UK distributor would go for the simpler negotiation and lower contracting cost, so while its not impossible that UK rights might get notched out, but it seems unlikely. Normally, when Crunchyroll loses right, they lose all rights all at once. And that is most common when FUNimation picks up a title, because they are looking at the title in part as a way to attract an audience to their site and various channels.

Since Aniplex America were willing to let Magical Girl Madoka, one of their most premium-priced home video releases, come to Crunchyroll as a catalog title, it seems like they mostly look on streaming as another way to advertise their home video release.


TheAncientOne wrote: I've never known of any simulcast to be permanently removed during its run, and I am quite confident CR's contracts always include terms that prohibit that.

Yes. Except for Fairy Tail, it seems likely that most things are on minimum terms of the season of broadcast and the following season.

It also seems like most of them roll-over automatically for a set number of broadcast seasons, since even when FUNimation announces a license, the series normally stays up until the end of the next season or two.
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Posted 10/21/12
great series but i was disappointed Rygart and the queen didn't hook up
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Posted 10/21/12
This series is spectacular....I really wish there was more.
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Posted 10/21/12 , edited 10/21/12

agila61 wrote:


akai_ryu wrote: Americans, I believe that you don't understand the problem. The current situation only generate disconfort in the foreign members. Therefore, the size of membership outside US / CAN don't rise if the number of release shows for our regions don't rise firstly.

Then since the number of simulcast shows available outside US/Canada has risen substantially over the past two years, the membership should increase as well.

I understand that problem perfectly well ~ I lived for a decade in Australia, so its not like I'm unable to imagine the problem from the other side. But the "solution" that some people always suggest is a lower price for members outside of the US, based on what fraction of series they have available, with the cost of a subscription going up for almost all subscribers outside of the US every time Crunchyroll succeeds in getting a "world outside of Japan" and "world outside of Asia" license and going down every time Crunchyroll gets a North America only sublicense.

But that means that royalties generated outside of US/Canada will drop, so fewer licensors will bother to offer rights outside of US/Canada, so the numbers of shows released outside of US/Canada will drop, which will make the problem worse.

I never said there isn't a problem, I said that the problem is not an easy problem to solve. I'm sure Crunchyroll is aware of it, and I'm sure that they are working on it ... because if they were not working on it, we would not have seen the Sentai sublicenses expanding outside of US/Canada and start including UK/Ireland, Australia/NZ, (some or all) Nordic countries, and South Africa over the last year.


Moreover, if you say that there are few members in UK, so how many are in Latin American? How many time we must wait for our situation improve?

I didn't say there are "few", I said there are "TOO few", or "not enough". Each member only generates a small amount of revenue per series they watch, compared to DVD/BD sales, and so although a few thousand of DVD/BD sales can cover contracting costs, you need tens of thousands of members to cover contracting costs for a streaming simulcast.

There are surely thousands of members from the UK or from Latin America, maybe over ten thousand, but not tens of thousands ~ at least not yet ~ so the numbers are below the numbers needed to allow double-contracting.

One big way to cut contracting costs is to do a package deal. So if, for example, Crunchyroll could work out a package deal to get streaming right for the FujiTV noitaminA block for (say) Latin America, Africa and the Middle East for a year (where Funimation has been getting most of the US/Canada rights), that would be eight seasons of series (four seasons per year times two series each season in the block) in a single contract. Then if its successful, and they generate enough royalties for FujiTV's noitaminA block to convince them its worth the trouble, they would be able to renew the contract, and a contract renewal is even lower contracting costs.

That's why I've said package deals are the only realistic way for Crunchyroll to be able to get any contracts that do not include US/Canada. With the views from those subscribers locked out, there's no realistic way to cover the contracting costs of an individual simulcast contract, and certainly no way to cover the contracting costs of a catalog release.



Thanks for the data but I never said nothing about the price and I'm sorry, I didn't know that you lived in Australia.
I don't know how many premium members are from Latin America but it's true, the number of them rise the last two years because now there are more available shows here and this year Crunchyroll added spanish subtitles too. However, this season we are worst that the before season about simulcast. Read the spanish forum: the people is angry. I understand because we haven't more shows and and I know that it's not easy to solve this situation but the problem is if the number of realesing will not rise faster, so the people will start to tire and so the size of membership will drop and therefore we'll have less available titles.
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Posted 10/21/12

akai_ryu wrote: I don't know how many premium members are from Latin America but it's true, the number of them rise the last two years because now there are more available shows here and this year Crunchyroll added spanish subtitles too. However, this season we are worst that the before season about simulcast.

Its worse than Summer 2012, Spring 2012 and Winter 2012 ...
... its worse than Summer 2011 ...

... but its better than last Fall 2011, which was only 4 new series for Latin America (only three free) and fewer continuing series for Latin America as well.

Not only is this a Fall season, which is normally considered the "strongest" season and so the hardest one for Crunchyroll to get direct licenses, but this season FUNimation licensed six series for exclusive streaming, TheAnimeNetwork licensed three series for exclusive streaming and Viz Media licensed one series, which took ten series off the table.

Meanwhile either Crunchyroll has not been able to persuade Sentai to pursue South American rights or else Sentai has tried and has been unsuccessful, so add the four Sentai sublicenses means a total of fourteen series from this fall where Crunchyroll couldn't even negotiate for Latin American rights.


Read the spanish forum: the people is angry.

Its been over twenty years since I could read Spanish well enough to follow the Spanish forum. But getting angry in the forums won't do anything except possibly turn some people off and convince some people to leave ... which will reduce the ability of Crunchyroll to land new series.

Its not the first Fall season that the number of series picked up for Latin America have dipped. Last Fall when it happened, however they did it, Crunchyroll was able to improve the pick up rates. Hopefully they'll be able to do the same thing in Winter and Spring 2013.
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Posted 10/21/12 , edited 10/21/12

agila61 wrote:


akai_ryu wrote: I don't know how many premium members are from Latin America but it's true, the number of them rise the last two years because now there are more available shows here and this year Crunchyroll added spanish subtitles too. However, this season we are worst that the before season about simulcast.

Its worse than Summer 2012, Spring 2012 and Winter 2012 ...
... its worse than Summer 2011 ...

... but its better than last Fall 2011, which was only 4 new series for Latin America (only three free) and fewer continuing series for Latin America as well.

Not only is this a Fall season, which is normally considered the "strongest" season and so the hardest one for Crunchyroll to get direct licenses, but this season FUNimation licensed six series for exclusive streaming, TheAnimeNetwork licensed three series for exclusive streaming and Viz Media licensed one series, which took ten series off the table.

Meanwhile either Crunchyroll has not been able to persuade Sentai to pursue South American rights or else Sentai has tried and has been unsuccessful, so add the four Sentai sublicenses means a total of fourteen series from this fall where Crunchyroll couldn't even negotiate for Latin American rights.


Read the spanish forum: the people is angry.

Its been over twenty years since I could read Spanish well enough to follow the Spanish forum. But getting angry in the forums won't do anything except possibly turn some people off and convince some people to leave ... which will reduce the ability of Crunchyroll to land new series.

Its not the first Fall season that the number of series picked up for Latin America have dipped. Last Fall when it happened, however they did it, Crunchyroll was able to improve the pick up rates. Hopefully they'll be able to do the same thing in Winter and Spring 2013.


It's true, Fall season 2012 is doubtless better than Fall season 2011 and I know this but you try to explain it to rest of Latin America's members, specially considering that Crunchyroll was do more well know here later April 2012. But I hope that you are in the right and next season will improve for us.
Thanks for reply.
Posted 10/21/12

agila61 wrote:


akai_ryu wrote: I don't know how many premium members are from Latin America but it's true, the number of them rise the last two years because now there are more available shows here and this year Crunchyroll added spanish subtitles too. However, this season we are worst that the before season about simulcast.

Its worse than Summer 2012, Spring 2012 and Winter 2012 ...
... its worse than Summer 2011 ...

... but its better than last Fall 2011, which was only 4 new series for Latin America (only three free) and fewer continuing series for Latin America as well.

Not only is this a Fall season, which is normally considered the "strongest" season and so the hardest one for Crunchyroll to get direct licenses, but this season FUNimation licensed six series for exclusive streaming, TheAnimeNetwork licensed three series for exclusive streaming and Viz Media licensed one series, which took ten series off the table.

Meanwhile either Crunchyroll has not been able to persuade Sentai to pursue South American rights or else Sentai has tried and has been unsuccessful, so add the four Sentai sublicenses means a total of fourteen series from this fall where Crunchyroll couldn't even negotiate for Latin American rights.


Read the spanish forum: the people is angry.

Its been over twenty years since I could read Spanish well enough to follow the Spanish forum. But getting angry in the forums won't do anything except possibly turn some people off and convince some people to leave ... which will reduce the ability of Crunchyroll to land new series.

Its not the first Fall season that the number of series picked up for Latin America have dipped. Last Fall when it happened, however they did it, Crunchyroll was able to improve the pick up rates. Hopefully they'll be able to do the same thing in Winter and Spring 2013.


are there some Kadokawa titles this season? or they were with Funimation and/or NicoNico just like the last year? xD

Kadokawa titles are usually licensed for N.A, L.A. and some countries of Europa.
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