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Why do we anime fans not support the industry?
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20 / M / Mexicali, Baja Ca...
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Posted 10/28/12
I watch anime either at crunchyroll and fansubbers, If I give support to the industry I don't think there's a problem.
Also, I like buying manga
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20 / M / California
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Posted 10/28/12 , edited 10/28/12
As much as I love to support the anime industry, like buying their products and videos, I just don't have the money to spend these kinds of things.

Here is what I think the mentality of those who pirate people's work:

"Why do I have to spend X amount of dollars on this particular product when I can get it online for free?"

Most people tends to do whatever it takes to contribute as little as possible but getting the same quality as they were to pay for it. I mean, can you blame them?

Most of the audience for anime and such are unemployed and are minors and they can't just take money out of their parents pocket for a monthly membership. I mean 10 dollars is a lot if you're not working. I don't support pirating, because try putting myself in the shoes of the producer or something, and knowing that someone is getting my work for free is damaging.
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18 / M / anime4fantasy@hot...
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Posted 10/28/12
It's understandable when people can't support the industry.
There is a big difference between 'can't' and 'won't'.

I personally prefer to support the japanese whilst watching anime. In the event i can't, for an example, there is an anime like, let's say 'D gray man', there is nowhere to legally watch it from the UK so you have to stream it.

If anime was more accessible legally, I think a lot more people would buy it.

Me: I just got 2 anime Blu ray's imported. 'Dog Days' Limited edition from japan directly, and 'Fairy Tail' Part 1 Blu ray combo. :D
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21 / M / San Diego, USA
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Posted 10/29/12 , edited 10/29/12

Kohou wrote:


LOSazimuth wrote:


Kohou wrote:

...So it's fine to steal as long as it's not expensive? In other words, the moral rightness scales with the value of the product?
Either taking something without paying for it is right or it isn't.


The "moral whateverness" of stealing something is most definitely proportional to what's being stolen. I'd find it to be a much lighter load on my mind to take, say, a pen than, say, a car or an iPod. But that's not the point I'm trying to make here, people.

The simple question was asked: Why don't anime fans support the industry?

I gave a simple reason: The shit's expensive as fuck.

You people spend way to much time reading between the lines than simply reading the comments. Seriously. It's like stating that something is expensive immediately implies that whoever said it's expensive is automatically pirating the shit. Well that's a big middle finger to you. It's expensive, but I still pay for it. Get it yet? Sweet Jesus, people.

Ya can't even reply to a thread anymore these days with a simple funny-meaning comment without getting raped by people who take comments here way too seriously. Geez


Hey, kid. If you're going to continue trying to play devil's advocate in the future, take some advice from a gadfly like myself.

1) Pick your battles and know when to fold 'em.
2) Learn to be a little less self-righteous.
3) Don't make an argument when there's no daylight between your words and hypocrisy.
4) "It was a joke" isn't an excuse that holds water with people.
5) Stop digging before you hit 6 feet.

Oh, and very important...
If you fear you may be misunderstood... explain better upfront. Or use a smiley.


I actually don't care if you pirate or not. I neither have a dog in that fight, nor a leg to stand on in condemning a person for it. I don't know you from Adam, nor do I care to. I was merely examining your argument that stealing an iPod is apparently less heinous than stealing a car, and your assumption that somehow no one is hurt by having an ipod stolen but are when a Ferrari is.



1) Pick your battles and know when to fold 'em.
2) Learn to be a little less self-righteous.
3) Don't make an argument when there's no daylight between your words and hypocrisy.
4) "It was a joke" isn't an excuse that holds water with people.
5) Stop digging before you hit 6 feet.


1.) Never tried to pick a battle, just made a simple comment. People started bawing.
2.) Self-righteous? This is the problem with forums. The tone of voice isn't there, save capitalization for yelling or somethin'. Hearing the words makes the mood and on text, well, for all anyone knows, I could be yelling this whole time or I could have a sarcastic tone. You never know.
3.) It's all opinionated anyway. The moral values of stealing/pirating versus the price of whatever is being stolen is all opinion. I'm simply trying to come up with examples to show that. Like, stealing a piece of paper versus stealing an iPod. What would dent your morals better and which would (saying they were stolen from you) you rather lose to theft? That's all I'm saying.
4.) It wasn't a joke. Never was. The original comment that I made [before anyone replied to it was meant to be funny. You know, like everything single comment on anything other forum topic on this website that I post in.
5.) Digging myself a hole am I? This is all a simple comment that got inflated and now has become a full-blown argument. If you ask me, the first responses I got sounded like I was being accused of being a pirate by other users that seemed self-righteous.

I'll admit, It's tough to be clear when many points on the same topic are being tossed about, but again, I'm not the one that wanted an argument. I hate arguing with people online.

A well thought-out sticker I once saw stated: "Winning an argument online is like running in the Special Olympics - you may win, but in the end you're all still complete retards."

^
More and more true as the replies keep rollin' to a simple comment.

I guess smilies do make things better, huh? Kinda like saying "With all due respect" but then unleashing a soul-wretching insult but don't worry, it's okay! I said "with all due respect so it's all good!" No. It's passive-aggressive and conceded. Be straightforward if you're gonna insult something.
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16 / F / 'MERICA
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Posted 10/29/12
well.....im a student under legal working age ._. do you THINK my parents will buy me a shit load of anime merchandise? NOPE!
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20 / M / Canada
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Posted 10/29/12
im prenium on crunchy roll and sometime is buy some manga on amazon..

But i cant buy anime in local store cuz its ban here... but i try to support
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37 / M / San Francisco
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Posted 10/29/12
"What you pay is what you get" is my thought on watching anime.

While I'm not going to divulge on economic reasons of minors or working young adults, it's the skewed sense of entitlement among western fans that irks some people. That's why subject like this is keep popping up.

I'm not going to talk people into buying merchandises. We all know that not all anime and manga titles will please or convince people to spend money on them. While it's up to individual person to decide how much money to spend, but as collective you can't influence Japanese side what to make at certain quality when you don't have money to show.

In my opinion, people here already decided not to show anime industry the serious money. So anime will always remain as niche medium that only targets very, very specific demographics. Licensing companies are doing their best to bring hot titles at low price, but don't expect the same VIP treatment as Japanese fans get.
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Posted 10/29/12 , edited 10/29/12
INCOMING WALL OF RAINBOW TEXT


Maxmattsmith wrote:
I don't know what brought this up crunchyroll is 100% legal it contracts with the people who make the anime just like a tv station would. you can watch it as a free member and they make money off the Commercials or a paid member and get it Commercial free, the anime producers get a cut of the profit. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean it's pirated material. So take you ignorant bleeding heart to the illegal sites and don't accuse this site of being illegal and don't accuse us of not supporting the anime industry,. Besides being a paid member of this site I also am a paid member of FUNimation which makes and airs anime. I don't take kindly to someone falsely accusing me or others of something just because they assume something without researching it.


Except that a bunch of members, even some in this very thread, admit to using fansubs.
>Funimation
>Making anime
Pick one. Funimation is just the distributor for North America/Canada(?). They don't make anime, just sell it.


isisprince wrote:
Because they think I'm going to pay two dollars an episode on a DVD for a crappy du
b? Because they think that localizing means whitewashing the contents? Because they release anime five years after it comes out? Because the special features on a DVD consist of a gallery? Because the Blu-ray edition is ridiculously expensive compared to what it actually costs? Because they edit out the animation to be sensitive to Americans?

Shall I go on…

I have premium account here, I support legal anime, and I want to see it thrive. To really do this, I think we need to get rid of the American studios and just have the Japanese studios do it. All we need are the subs, send them out on some kind of digital distribution for pay, and move on with our lives.


Someone already went over it but to make it brief because lolwhynot?
Are you still living in the 1990's/early 2000's? Most anime today are sold with Japanese language tracks with English Subs
.
Most content are kept intact. Talking about crosses? Pretty sure authors/Japanese publishing companies gave the ok to these changes in order to not offend potential customers since these releases are targeted to Americans/outside countries.

Recent Example please. Japanese publishers are the ones who decide when the english versions are released since reverseimportation
. The special features on the final product are the ones ok'ed by the Japanese publishers. Hell, I'm going to take a guess and say you don't have a recent release since I'm sure they at least have interviews with the american cast/commentary/OP & EDs, etc. Confirmed as never having seen the cost of the JAPANESE Blu-rays/DVD EVER.
Japanese are never going to adopt to digital anytime soon. They see no reason to change when they're still pushing sales with physicals.
+Expecting REASONABLEJapanese pricing. lololololololo1o01o10o10o10o10.


LOSazimuth wrote:

Cause the shit's expensive as fuck
and

iashakezula wrote:
Sometimes anime watchers living in countires like USA and Canada , forget there are many others from other countries who cant afford to buy the legit dvd or bluray. And some cant even afford the legal streaming.

But I know people
who are just barely survivng with in their means , so they go to where it is free but at least subscribe with CR.

You can never role out the fact that the number 1 reason why people to go where it is free and or cheap is economics.

And maybe another reason why people go download the anime is because they can ..


If you have no job. If you have a COMPUTER with non-s***** INTERNET CONNECTION, you have disposable income. Try harder.


scarletweirdness wrote:
I watch anime either at crunchyroll and fansubbers, If I give support to the industry I don't think there's a problem.


Thinking that supporting anime made by company X hosted on Crunchy = supporting anime made by company Y being fansubbed.
Just no.


johnkx wrote:
I buy manga and figurines

I might buy some blu ray titles but I heard most of them are upscaled and shit - I might not be helping the anime industry but I've donated money to fansubs who really prove themselves to be worth supporting. If those companies who licenses stuff would actually bring good quality for a fair price for our product needs then we might not be having this discussion.


You DONATED money to FANSUBS and complain about unfair pricing from who? Funimation does 30-40$DVD sets for an entire season. Aniplex? Set by Japanese publishers who, due to reverse importation and fansubs, set their prices the same or close to their Japanese prices. Viz? Anime releases are cheaper than the Japanese counterparts.
And lol @ being able to tell if a fansub is decent when you have non-existent Japanese reading/listening skills. Just so you know, official companies are often given the scripts unlike fansubs. Going to let that sink in.


Maxmattsmith wrote:

yes you don't know anything just because something is online doesn't mean it's pirated. FUNimation is a huge anime company and they offer subscriptions via online viewing they also offer dvd's but their main profit is the web videos because they don't have to make and ship the physical dvds. This topic should be locked because it was obviously trying to claim crunchyroll is a illegal site when it's not and the poster is obviously not a crunchyroll viewer either that or the poster is a hypocrite.


They don't make and ship physical dvds... what? Are you sure you're not confusing them with CR?
Annnnnnd after reading that last bit, I can say for certain you have no clue about what you're talking about. Try paying attention in English class and then go back to read OP's post?


LOSazimuth wrote:

deadpanditto wrote:
Nope. I'm sure I'm not the one missing the point.


What? Stealing more expensive shit has bigger consequences? Well no way I had no freakin' idea.

The hell does that have to do with this? Besides, I simply stated that anime is expensive as hell. No one in their right mind would steal a Ferrari, but millions (if not hundreds of thousands) steal anime on a daily basis. Its digital media and people are cheap. Sure, there's those that would pay for anime, and I am one of them, but there are many, many more who'd rather get the same shit for free cause, um, gee, I don't know, anime is expensive as fuck for just a few episodes of a show.

I don't know about you, but I'd steal a Ferrari right away if it was as simple as downloading it. I mean, why pay thousands of bucks for something you could get for free? It's a no-brainer.


Has no clue on how much it costs to make a single episode.
Safely assumes poster is not mentally old enough to see how a business is suppose to stay afloat if they make no money and why people should work in said business as a professional.
Safely assumes poster will not understand the sentence above and continue to ***** on how expensive anime is.
Am I right? Need me to hold your hand still?


isisprince wrote:
It's not about "us and them." Your argument seems to want to paint me as someone who downloads anime, and I don't. I'm telling you for a fact about the anime that I do own, and how angry I am at what's on the disk. I have also rented countless films from Netflix where all you get are pencil concept drawings in the special features section. I own classic anime, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I get them all at bargain bins and discounts, because buying this crap new is just too expensive. I was just having this conversation last week, where we were talking about tegami bachi being $50($30 for 13 episodes). Seriously? This isn't an old anime! And it doesn't even have the dub, so what gives?

Okay, so I can tell you're not ready to believe yet.

http://www.amazon.com/Gintama-Collection-Artist-Not-Provided/dp/B0035ZZ9OE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1351294230&sr=8-4&keywords=sentai+filmworks

Look at that price, and tell me you are not getting screwed.

I'm not saying the answer is bit torrent, or downloading it somewhere or whatever. I'm telling you that, present tense, I do have a point, studios are still misbehaving, and we are getting reamed. There are very good reasons not to purchase anime, and I gave you two modern examples.

That being said, I have a premium crunchy account, so I don't know what the rage is for.

I do want Japanese studios to take over the subtitling and digital distribution. It is not uncommon to hire translators, and it's not even that expensive. There are many Japanese-English translation options in Japan, and they could do it themselves. I stand by my suggestion at eliminating the English dub and just going straight for a digital release from Japan, with subtitles.


Great, now I'm jumping between posters.
http://www.amazon.co.jp/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&url=search-alias%3Ddvd&field-keywords=%E3%83%86%E3%82%AC%E3%83%9F%E3%83%90%E3%83%81&x=20&y=18
Tegami Bachi DVD's on Amazon JP. Easily more than 30$ for 13 episodes with not dubs! *Gasp*

http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-language/product/B000FF6VLM/ref=dp_change_lang?ie=UTF8&language=en_JP

Random Gintama DVD Volume. Contains only 2 episodes for about 30$ in Yen. 13 Episodes for 30$ is a steal unless you're ******* blind or have no concept of how money works.

Compared to Japanese draconian pricing and distribution models, the West has it better to the point that some people IN Japan REVERSE IMPORT because it's CHEAPER.
Again, lol @ Japanese adopting digital distribution.


tuberoako777 wrote:
It's a struggling industry? Does that mean financial? Wow!

Can't believe they still release a lot of anime per season.

If anime'd disappear anytime soon (w/c I doubt it would even in 5 years [gut feeling only].. Hopefully that'd force me to find a more productive hobby


Look at what's being produced. Most are being safe and churning out differentnamesamethings that sell while those that are different may not catch on and sell enough to make even/another cour.
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Posted 10/30/12
Put simply, watch this video: The Truth About Dishonesty . It is entirely worth spending the 11 minutes it takes to watch this.

This video makes the point I was trying to make far, far better than I ever could. It is all about rationalization. It also makes it clear that many industries face this issue.
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Posted 10/30/12
Anime merchandise is greatly overpriced to begin with. The shows cost like 50 bucks for a single season DVD. Figures/statues, I won't even get into that because that is such a consumer trainwreck I wonder how people can stomach it. Then you've got everything else like; Video games for successful franchises, tie-ins with consumer products such as junk food, toy lines, ect. I wouldn't be watching anime right now if there was Crunchyroll, largely because the DVD prices are so through the roof and I think they'd be able to sell more hard copies if they weren't trying to be the bandits of the media business. It's basic supply and demand. If you demand more than what the market believes an item is worth, they will either forgo buying it or find another thing like it, or try to find it cheaper by any means necessary

.
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Posted 10/30/12
I always rented anime from my local anime shop but they closed down due to youtube and I always supported the anime industry from a very young age. I also legally watch anime here on crunchyroll with my premium subcription.
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29 / M / Bellingham WA, USA
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Posted 10/30/12 , edited 10/30/12

"Don't make the money argument"

"i visited Otakuzine Convention 4 times, i spend $3000 to buy anime stuffs, Anime T-shirts, Anime DVD and more.
i`ve wasted $2850 for this and i got so many collections, proud to be an Otaku."

"for my allowance, my parents gave me $200 per day."


OP doesn't support the anime industry. Their parents do. People who actually work for their money have different priorities. Like food and rent.

Pirating is bad and I discourage it. But it's weird to talk down to the general anime community on CR (a place where every subscriber/video watcher is already supporting the industry) in such a condescending way.

Oh no anime isn't doing that well during a global recession. The sky must be falling! Lets sharpen up those pitch forks because it's obviously all the fault of people watching unlicensed fansubs in other countries.
kvi 
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29 / M / Planet Mars
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Posted 10/30/12


A couple of good responses I think. And yeah, it's just not realistic to remove money as an excuse.

It's sad, but maybe the truth is, people just don't care enough to support the industry. When I say that, I don't mean everyone. Like what was said above, there are plenty of paid subscribers on this site as well as others. There are people bending over backwards to import their favorite stuff.

Marketing

God knows, I've made this argument before so sorry if you already heard it. While plenty of blame can be put on the average fans, you cannot leave the industry out of this one. The industries: anime, manga, music, whatever have done an absolutely abysmal job at marketing to the American consumers. When is the last time you've seen a commerical for your favorite series. About the only place you find ads selling the media are on the sites where the current fanbase already are. The industry has lagged on attempts to increase the fanbase.

Turnaround

I do have to applaud the recent introduction to simulcasts. One of the biggest problems was the wait to get translated series to markets. It's really unacceptable when you have teams of unpaid fans putting out material faster than the industries. Sometimes the fans actually put out better translations. Yeah it's not totally fair to blame the industry on this one. I can only imagine the wrangling to be done on getting translations done, then getting them approved by the original companies, finding appropriate voice actors and the rest. But if you want to compete with pirating this is going to have to improve. This problem could probably be improved with a better relationship between the japanese and american industries.

Humanization

Sadly, I think a lot of people only see the end product. The actual art that they see on their screens. There is not enough emotional ties with the producers and creators. You might actually get a little of this with the special features if you buy the merchandise. But at that point it's too late. Do you know the name of the person that created your favorite series? Would you know his face if you saw it. Do you have any idea inspired her to create it. Your diehard fans might put forth the effort to find these things out. And that type of information brings a lot more meaning to the work. But if you don't make this type of information easily available, people are not going to look. And when the choice between supporting someone they know and feel for or downloading some badass free series from some stranger you can see what choice they'll make.

Price

I think you make arguments about the prices until you are blue in the face. I've heard from too many people that the price is just not matching up to the content provided. Maybe these opinions are wrong, maybe not. It be nice for someone to justify it. And when you do, back it up with some facts. Maybe scale back that profit margin and try to create more of a demand.

Well there's my 2 cents. A lot of people smarter than me have brought up more convincing argurments which can be found in other threads.
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24 / M / New Hampshire
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Posted 10/30/12 , edited 10/30/12

FallenYmir wrote:

INCOMING WALL OF RAINBOW TEXT


Maxmattsmith wrote:
I don't know what brought this up crunchyroll is 100% legal it contracts with the people who make the anime just like a tv station would. you can watch it as a free member and they make money off the Commercials or a paid member and get it Commercial free, the anime producers get a cut of the profit. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean it's pirated material. So take you ignorant bleeding heart to the illegal sites and don't accuse this site of being illegal and don't accuse us of not supporting the anime industry,. Besides being a paid member of this site I also am a paid member of FUNimation which makes and airs anime. I don't take kindly to someone falsely accusing me or others of something just because they assume something without researching it.


Except that a bunch of members, even some in this very thread, admit to using fansubs.
>Funimation
>Making anime
Pick one. Funimation is just the distributor for North America/Canada(?). They don't make anime, just sell it.



Look at what's being produced. Most are being safe and churning out differentnamesamethings that sell while those that are different may not catch on and sell enough to make even/another cour.



Most of the people who supposedly admitted to it are what you called trolls(people who pretend they are someone they are not to start a fight) look at their other posts and see for your self. I don't doubt a few of them really do watch illegal anime videos but the videos found here and the videos I watch are legal. This site is legal so this thread should be on one of the illegal ones.
Funimation (formerly known as Funimation Productions and Funimation Entertainment, and usually stylized as FUNimation) is an American Television & Film production company souce: wiki
Funimation both produces and distributes their anime along with some they just flat-out buy the copyrights to. My main argument is not every video on the web is illegal some videos such as those found here are legally aired with a contract with the owners of the copy right. Sites like this one are no different then a television channel. In fact if you have roku box you could watch the videos found here on your TV instead of a dish or cable.
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25 / M / Australia
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Posted 10/30/12
If funimation let people in Australia use the website, I would pay for it.
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