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Our minds and a virtual world
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Posted 1/17/13
Your current consciousness it tied to your brain. If you copy your mind into a computer system, then that will be a second version of your consciousness that is convinced that it is the first.

So I died...Now I am a brain in a jar, is it still me? Yes.
Personally, I'd enjoy the experience of exploring virtual worlds without having to bother with a physical body.
Posted 4/3/13

mau5undead wrote:

if you're into philosophy you have proberbly heard of the "brain in the vat" today i was pondering at something that i'd really like to get your thoughts and creative views on.

What if we were already phyiscally speaking "dead" and our consciousness were put into a computer system, everything we feel, our bodies, the world around us is all not real but what exists and what is, is our minds and our conscious being.

What were to happen if we found a way to "leave" the virtual world?
What happens if we die here?
and finally like electricity can counsciousness and thought frequencies be destroyed? can they really just ciest to exist? what print do they leave behind?

also ironically this song was playing whilst i was thinking of all this i reccomend you listen ^^: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiUAq4aVTjY


I really like your way of thinking !!! I really think we are living in a virtual world. (David Icke goes into detail with this topic)

From my perspective, I think it is actually true. There are actually people who can see through this matrix or illusion and changes in the human DNA have already been proven. We may just become super human beings We never know hahaha !
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Posted 4/22/13
The short answer would be who knows? This has been a theme in a few animes like Sword Art Online and Yu-gi-oh in the arc that explains Kaiba's step brother Noah and Kaiba's past.

I think thoughts can be destroyed. There is scientific proof of it like when memories and actions cannot be accessed after brain damage. It's possible that conciousness can be transfered, in my opinion, but only a small percentage of possiblity if not unknown.
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Posted 4/22/13

jeizii wrote:


mau5undead wrote:

if you're into philosophy you have proberbly heard of the "brain in the vat" today i was pondering at something that i'd really like to get your thoughts and creative views on.

What if we were already phyiscally speaking "dead" and our consciousness were put into a computer system, everything we feel, our bodies, the world around us is all not real but what exists and what is, is our minds and our conscious being.

What were to happen if we found a way to "leave" the virtual world?
What happens if we die here?
and finally like electricity can counsciousness and thought frequencies be destroyed? can they really just ciest to exist? what print do they leave behind?

also ironically this song was playing whilst i was thinking of all this i reccomend you listen ^^: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiUAq4aVTjY


I really like your way of thinking !!! I really think we are living in a virtual world. (David Icke goes into detail with this topic)

From my perspective, I think it is actually true. There are actually people who can see through this matrix or illusion and changes in the human DNA have already been proven. We may just become super human beings We never know hahaha !


Interesting. However, are you sure the illusion is not actually the belief that our conciousness is an illusion? What can you do about if it is just an illusion? I think we can only base our guesses on what is tangible and what is not tangible. However, this is not to say that something like multiple dimensions would be impossible. Have you researched the rate of time it takes for the human DNA to change? I don't think we will become super human beings for quite some time without the use of technology to aid the transition, but hey, it could happen. I understand where you are coming from. I think some people are more deep than others and I suppose these would be the people who you say can see through the matrix. The illusion seems to be most confusing after waking from sleep. At that time, it's almost like there is a few seconds of limbo.
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Posted 4/22/13

jonileth wrote:

Thought, such that it is, is said to be the movement of electrical energy through the synapses of the brain. If one were to follow along that logical, a computer functions in the same way. The only real difference is, our mental pathways are self-evolving while computer data pathways are hardwired and can only be changed through external effort. This being the case, it is entirely plausible that one could be uploaded into the ether and exist, as much as one could in such an environment. The issue then is, not so much whether we could do the same things in an organic body once placed in the machine, but how those things would be different.

Perception is little more than interpretation of information. We receive data from our many senses constantly, and it is in our interpretation of this data that we find our perception of the world. Given new and varied methods of data collection (UV detection devices, access to microscopes, temperature sensor, and many others) we could, arguably, perceive the world in far greater detail and clarity than in a limited organic body.

Also, if one is able to inhabit a computer system, it is plausible that any mobile platform capable of supporting the electrical signals that make up your consciousness could become a body or sorts. The creation of 'robot' to house your 'soul' is not unrealistic by any stretch of the imagination. Simply put, if the technology were there to support such a thing I'm certain it would be in no way different for a person, at least on the most basic of levels, whether they have flesh or metal surrounding them.


Have you watched Clannad?
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Posted 4/22/13

faith1323 Have you watched Clannad?


No, I haven't seen that one.
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Posted 4/22/13

jonileth wrote:


faith1323 Have you watched Clannad?


No, I haven't seen that one.


It's a great show. I don't want to spoil anything, but it starts out in "a world that has ended" with a girl and a robot who has a soul from another world. The girl can create life with the parts she collects, but that's not exactly the main story. I just thought it might be relevant to the discussion.
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Posted 4/22/13

faith1323 It's a great show. I don't want to spoil anything, but it starts out in "a world that has ended" with a girl and a robot who has a soul from another world. The girl can create life with the parts she collects, but that's not exactly the main story. I just thought it might be relevant to the discussion.


An interesting concept, I'll admit. But I'm not entirely sure how it's relevant.
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Posted 4/22/13

jonileth wrote:


faith1323 It's a great show. I don't want to spoil anything, but it starts out in "a world that has ended" with a girl and a robot who has a soul from another world. The girl can create life with the parts she collects, but that's not exactly the main story. I just thought it might be relevant to the discussion.


An interesting concept, I'll admit. But I'm not entirely sure how it's relevant.


Haha... It would be relevant if I worded it so that it spoiled the ending, but I don't want to do that.
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Posted 4/22/13

faith1323Haha... It would be relevant if I worded it so that it spoiled the ending, but I don't want to do that.


I see. That makes sense I suppose. Would hate for someone to get butthurt because you spoiled something for them.
Posted 4/22/13

jonileth wrote:
Also, if one is able to inhabit a computer system, it is plausible that any mobile platform capable of supporting the electrical signals that make up your consciousness could become a body or sorts. The creation of 'robot' to house your 'soul' is not unrealistic by any stretch of the imagination. Simply put, if the technology were there to support such a thing I'm certain it would be in no way different for a person, at least on the most basic of levels, whether they have flesh or metal surrounding them.


Such transitions might become disturbing. I mean, what does it really mean to be human?
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Posted 4/22/13

Marsev Such transitions might become disturbing. I mean, what does it really mean to be human?


Human, as a term, represents what we know to be 'us'. It differs widely from person to person and in general is nothing more than a shared perspective of the masses. If you were to change your perspective, such as with the transition from biological to mechanical, you would redefine what 'us' is. Humanity could still be humanity, it would simply be in another form than before. If one were able to perfectly map the 'soul' or essence of what a person is, it doesn't really matter what the shell looks like, the core of the being remains the same.
Posted 4/22/13 , edited 4/22/13

jonileth wrote:

Human, as a term, represents what we know to be 'us'. It differs widely from person to person and in general is nothing more than a shared perspective of the masses. If you were to change your perspective, such as with the transition from biological to mechanical, you would redefine what 'us' is. Humanity could still be humanity, it would simply be in another form than before. If one were able to perfectly map the 'soul' or essence of what a person is, it doesn't really matter what the shell looks like, the core of the being remains the same.


What do you think of cloning of humans? [more or less the same question but more definitive]
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Posted 4/22/13

Marsev wrote: What do you think of cloning?


Cloning is nothing more than the replication of cells. There is no evidence to support that the tissues of our body, or even our DNA is structured in such a way that you could make an exact copy and it would be you completely. One's awareness, consciousness, identity would not transfer to the clone, nor would the clone's mind be accessible or perceivable from the original. Other than the raw materials and genetic coding required to create the clone, it would be a completely different person the moment the process was complete. You don't get a duality of minds, you aren't going to resonate at the same molecular frequency and be telepathic with your clone. You're just making a new person that looks exactly like you. Everything else would be up to the clone to decide.
Posted 4/22/13

jonileth wrote:

Cloning is nothing more than the replication of cells. There is no evidence to support that the tissues of our body, or even our DNA is structured in such a way that you could make an exact copy and it would be you completely. One's awareness, consciousness, identity would not transfer to the clone, nor would the clone's mind be accessible or perceivable from the original. Other than the raw materials and genetic coding required to create the clone, it would be a completely different person the moment the process was complete. You don't get a duality of minds, you aren't going to resonate at the same molecular frequency and be telepathic with your clone. You're just making a new person that looks exactly like you. Everything else would be up to the clone to decide.


Ah no, cloning was the wrong word to use. Let me ask you a different question, what did you mean by “'robot' to house your 'soul'” ?
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