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Chinese pop star 24 declares love for 12 year old girl
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Posted 11/21/12
Interesting.
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34 / M / The Void.
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Posted 11/21/12
They will suffer the consequences.
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26 / M / Sydney, Australia
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Posted 11/21/12 , edited 11/21/12

Nozferi wrote:



I read the section I marked for quoting and in that correspondance between you and 'nameherenow', you did - whether intentional or not, defend their relationship. There was no information there that would've changed my perception of your conversation, nothing else was marked by neither you nor 'nameherenow'.


There's no difference between this relationship... and another relationship where a 12-year-old-girl dates a boy of the same age. The girl could potentially get pregnant and ruin her life as well.

At least with this girl's relationship, the guy is old enough to know not to sleep with her. I'd rather she date this 24 year old than some horny 14-year-old boy who doesn't know how to put a condom on.


That is what I responded to, not an discussion regarding closed/open minds.

And we're both judging their relationship whether we want to admit it or not. You judged based on something he said in an interview, assuming him to be telling the truth. - Assumption is also an judgement. And I judged them based on the possibility of her being taken advantage of, and that is only strengthend by him having had an teacher/"superiour" role to her since she was 8.

There is an reason why this isn't considered normal anymore.


And like I said before to "nameherenow"...

"Do you know that the same aged people dating also have complications? Such as... peer pressure, not knowing about protection and infections, and also girls develop faster than boys. But nobody seems to be against it."



In some culture it is considered normal, just because in other people's culture it's not, doesn't make it not "normal".


My opinion is that this relationship is OK, and I supported my view by saying there's no difference between her dating a 24 year old guy and her dating some 12 year old guy... it's a pretty general analysis. It's not specifically aimed at her or him. I'm not saying, "Wow, they are so romantic together am I? Or that they should move in with one another immediately because he promised not to touch her."
I'm using comparisons between most 24 year old males to other males that are the same age as her. I think it's safe to say that 24 year old males have a better control of their hormones than males that are the same age as her, that was my point.


Even in Australia, they allow Aboriginal girls to get married at 13. Different cultures have different ways of doing things.

Just because you or I think it's disgusting doesn't make it not "normal".


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Posted 11/21/12
Half a word..... PEDO!
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Posted 11/21/12 , edited 11/21/12
Edited



I think it's debatable whether 12 year olds should be allowed to date in the first place. However it is recognized that children at that age are starting to explore their sexuality and start to form more complex relationships with each other. It's a part of the development and it's up to parents and other responsible adults to ensure that it happens in a safe way. Another difference with same age relationship is that the power is more or less balanced whilst with an adult and child, one person holds higher power and influence leaving the other vulnerable.

Same age relationships do have complications, yes but they don't always start with one person in the relationship already at a disadvantage and parents/responsible adults have a higher role to play on both sides. For example if there ever happens to be a disagreement, or conflict in this relationship (as there often is in most relationship) then the 12 year old who as you said is still developing, and is likely to be under different pressures (peer, family, society, etc) and might be lacking certain knowledge, would be at a disadvantage against a 24 year old who as an adult has a greater position of responsibility. Where then are her options for making decisions independent of him and without his influence?
You could say those options lie with her parents but that's only assuming they will always act in her best interest and won't be swayed or influenced by the guy.
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starry 
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Posted 11/21/12
Relax on the quote pyramids, guys.

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Posted 11/21/12
When I was 12 I had the hots for my history teacher. She was a 25-30 year old blonde woman about 5'2 and she always dressed really professional/wore cute lipstick. Everything about her screamed cuteness from the way she did her hair to her black skirt.

Can you honestly tell me if you were in that situation when you were younger- you would tell yourself "No it's wrong! I'm too young to hook up with the hot blonde teacher. I need to wait a few years for my brain to develop emotions and other stuff" It's easy to say things about others without putting yourself in their place.
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Posted 11/21/12
It amuses me how you guys are arguing about this topic.
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Posted 11/22/12
This reminds me of a joke I heard back in middle school...



Last night, my girlfriend accused me of being a pedophile.

I said "Wow, that's a big ass word for a 4 year old."
antx0r 
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Posted 11/22/12

GayAsianBoy wrote:


Nozferi wrote:



I read the section I marked for quoting and in that correspondance between you and 'nameherenow', you did - whether intentional or not, defend their relationship. There was no information there that would've changed my perception of your conversation, nothing else was marked by neither you nor 'nameherenow'.


There's no difference between this relationship... and another relationship where a 12-year-old-girl dates a boy of the same age. The girl could potentially get pregnant and ruin her life as well.

At least with this girl's relationship, the guy is old enough to know not to sleep with her. I'd rather she date this 24 year old than some horny 14-year-old boy who doesn't know how to put a condom on.


That is what I responded to, not an discussion regarding closed/open minds.

And we're both judging their relationship whether we want to admit it or not. You judged based on something he said in an interview, assuming him to be telling the truth. - Assumption is also an judgement. And I judged them based on the possibility of her being taken advantage of, and that is only strengthend by him having had an teacher/"superiour" role to her since she was 8.

There is an reason why this isn't considered normal anymore.


And like I said before to "nameherenow"...

"Do you know that the same aged people dating also have complications? Such as... peer pressure, not knowing about protection and infections, and also girls develop faster than boys. But nobody seems to be against it."



In some culture it is considered normal, just because in other people's culture it's not, doesn't make it not "normal".


My opinion is that this relationship is OK, and I supported my view by saying there's no difference between her dating a 24 year old guy and her dating some 12 year old guy... it's a pretty general analysis. It's not specifically aimed at her or him. I'm not saying, "Wow, they are so romantic together am I? Or that they should move in with one another immediately because he promised not to touch her."
I'm using comparisons between most 24 year old males to other males that are the same age as her. I think it's safe to say that 24 year old males have a better control of their hormones than males that are the same age as her, that was my point.


Even in Australia, they allow Aboriginal girls to get married at 13. Different cultures have different ways of doing things.

Just because you or I think it's disgusting doesn't make it not "normal".




I kinda get what you're saying, but I have to disagree. You say that in some cultures it is normal for a 12 year old to marry or have a relationship with someone much older (like a 24 or 30 year old), but have you also considered how these cultures view women? Most of these cultures don't consider females as equals (in fact, most treat women more like property than people) and so are much more willing and accepting of sending off their 12 year old daughter to be "married" off to some 30 year old. I know of no culture where a 12 year old boy being sent off to marry a 30 year old woman is accepted. Oh, and these same cultures would probably have you killed, castrated or tortured (they would call it "reformed") if you were homosexual. By condoning this relationship under the argument that it's acceptable in other cultures, you are also tacitly approving of how these cultures treat/view their women, and although some people may be ok with that, I will have to dissent on that opinion.

Another factor to consider is this: what if the guy is, in fact, a pedophile?
Now, I haven't seen or read any evidence that he is, but I haven't seen or read any evidence that he's not. That is the risk in this relationship, a risk that I don't think the 12 year old is fully able to comprehend. I don't think I need to go into why a 12 year old being in a relationship with a 24 year old pedophile is a bad thing.
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Posted 11/22/12 , edited 11/22/12

antx0r wrote:

I kinda get what you're saying, but I have to disagree. You say that in some cultures it is normal for a 12 year old to marry or have a relationship with someone much older (like a 24 or 30 year old), but have you also considered how these cultures view women? Most of these cultures don't consider females as equals (in fact, most treat women more like property than people) and so are much more willing and accepting of sending off their 12 year old daughter to be "married" off to some 30 year old. I know of no culture where a 12 year old boy being sent off to marry a 30 year old woman is accepted. Oh, and these same cultures would probably have you killed, castrated or tortured (they would call it "reformed") if you were homosexual. By condoning this relationship under the argument that it's acceptable in other cultures, you are also tacitly approving of how these cultures treat/view their women, and although some people may be ok with that, I will have to dissent on that opinion.

Another factor to consider is this: what if the guy is, in fact, a pedophile?
Now, I haven't seen or read any evidence that he is, but I haven't seen or read any evidence that he's not. That is the risk in this relationship, a risk that I don't think the 12 year old is fully able to comprehend. I don't think I need to go into why a 12 year old being in a relationship with a 24 year old pedophile is a bad thing.


I specifically mentioned Aboriginal culture in Australia; they don't treat women as inferior or do they torture homosexuals.

Have you read the non-fiction book "Wild Swans" by Jung Chang? The author's grandfather had to marry at 14 years of age.


I could ask the same thing about any relationship. Anybody of any age could be a potential paedophile. Paedophilia is not limited to people over 18.

Which brings me back to my original point; what is the difference between her dating a guy of the same age and a guy who is 24 year old? Absolutely nothing.

Any sort of relationship could harm her physically and emotionally. It's not about age; it's about each individual.
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Posted 11/22/12
Just let it the argument go, it is pointless when you both sides will never admit defeat.
antx0r 
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Posted 11/22/12

GayAsianBoy wrote:


antx0r wrote:

I kinda get what you're saying, but I have to disagree. You say that in some cultures it is normal for a 12 year old to marry or have a relationship with someone much older (like a 24 or 30 year old), but have you also considered how these cultures view women? Most of these cultures don't consider females as equals (in fact, most treat women more like property than people) and so are much more willing and accepting of sending off their 12 year old daughter to be "married" off to some 30 year old. I know of no culture where a 12 year old boy being sent off to marry a 30 year old woman is accepted. Oh, and these same cultures would probably have you killed, castrated or tortured (they would call it "reformed") if you were homosexual. By condoning this relationship under the argument that it's acceptable in other cultures, you are also tacitly approving of how these cultures treat/view their women, and although some people may be ok with that, I will have to dissent on that opinion.

Another factor to consider is this: what if the guy is, in fact, a pedophile?
Now, I haven't seen or read any evidence that he is, but I haven't seen or read any evidence that he's not. That is the risk in this relationship, a risk that I don't think the 12 year old is fully able to comprehend. I don't think I need to go into why a 12 year old being in a relationship with a 24 year old pedophile is a bad thing.


I specifically mentioned Aboriginal culture in Australia; they don't treat women as inferior or do they torture homosexuals.

Have you read the non-fiction book "Wild Swans" by Jung Chang? The author's grandfather had to marry at 14 years of age.


I could ask the same thing about any relationship. Anybody of any age could be a potential paedophile. Paedophilia is not limited to people over 18.

Which brings me back to my original point; what is the difference between her dating a guy of the same age and a guy who is 24 year old? Absolutely nothing.

Any sort of relationship could harm her physically and emotionally. It's not about age; it's about each individual.


Yeah, I'm gonna drop this argument. It's too much of an emotional issue rather than a cognitive one, so arguing about it is pointless, there's no right answer and we'll both be adamant we are right, because it's how we feel, rather than because we have a better argument.
So let's just agree to disagree heh.

But I will put in a final closing argument:

I don't know enough about the aborigines to argue one way or the other and I'll take your word for it, but I do know enough about other cultures where child brides are/were common (Pashtuns or Afghans, Bedouins, Sikh, etc.) and they are very repressive of women, in fact it seems that child brides and repressed women seem to go hand in hand. I took a class in human trafficking so maybe my views are a bit skewed.

You are right in that pedophilia is not limited to those over 18, but when someone over 18 is "romantically" interested in someone under 14 (generally the age when girls have developed enough to have "sex appeal"), then you have to wonder... In fact, I should say by the time someone has reached puberty if they find themselves sexually attracted to girls that haven't "developed" yet, I would start getting worried.
Pedophilia is by current definition a psychiatric disorder and it manifests after someone has sexually matured to some degree, I believe around 16 or older. You ask what's the difference between a 12 year old dating a 12 year old vs a 24 year old? RISK. When I was around 12 I had a girlfriend also around the same age - sex wasn't even a consideration, hell, I thought kissing was "yucky" and we never even kissed. But we held hands and played together often, because at that time that's what I considered as having "romantic" relationship. Chances are, if two 12 year olds are dating, the guy isn't going to be a pedophile. If the guy is still trying to date 12 year olds when he's 16, then yes, he probably is. When a 24 year old is dating a 12 year old, chances are much higher that he is a pedophile than if he were a 12 year old, which means that the chance that he's going to want to advance the relationship to a sexual one is also much higher.

Also, I haven't read "Wild Swans" by Jung Chang, is it any good? I think I'll look into reading it. I was going to write another blurb about "marriages of economic convenience" and such, but I'm not gonna bother, it would be going way off topic.
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Posted 11/22/12
I'll have to agree with antx0r and I'll add that what's concerning about a 12 year old dating a 24 year old isn't just the risk to her but also her ability to protect/defend herself against that risk. In my opinion you do not expose someone to a risk when you know it's highly likely that person is unable to manage that risk.
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Posted 11/26/12
bitch please, age doesn't matter.. as long as they love each other(and the guy doesn't do indecent stuff to the girl), it's great~ besides, i also heard about 17-year difference(sucks, but it's just from a manga but meh), so i wasn't really that surprised
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