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Is heaven perfect?
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Posted 11/21/12

PhyongHwa wrote:


rabbitvang wrote:





To answer your question, you have to know this, "What is sinning?" Well since you brought up Catholicism, I'll answer your question according to their beliefs. In order for a person to actually be sinning, that person has to actually know that what they are doing (or want to do) is wrong, but they do it anyway. Now, this person could repent later and be absolved, but if they commit a sin thinking that "Well I'll just repent afterwards then I'll be off the hook", then they're wrong. The act of repentance (confession) in Catholicism is not a "free pass" to do as one wills and still gain Heaven. Technically speaking, in Catholicism, there is no guarantee that anything you do will get you into Heaven, but you can do your best in avoiding and doing certain things to possibly up your chances. Entrance into Heaven is totally dependent on the Mercy of God and the person's acceptance of His Sacrifice. Without Both, it's a no go.



So what you are saying is that, in the Catholic church, the belief of faith is require to go to heaven. Whereas suikojay said it probably not require, and he goes to a Catholic church. Is this God truly merciful or is he a tyrant God? If you look at the fact that being said he look like a tyrant than a merciful God. He made man in his image while imperfect. He then gave 10 law to abide by. Sent his son down to speak the word of his father that only those he believe in the true words of God will enter his kingdom. If you look at it, it not much to wiggle your way around it. You are imperfect so you will commit sins in your life. Confessing is only a repentance, but will no absolve you of all your sins. Rejecting his faith is rejecting him so you are doom even if you try to live clean. If you look at it not many will go into heaven.

If all that is true, then the question to this post have been answer.That Heaven is not perfect, even under the all knowing perfect being called, God.
Posted 11/21/12 , edited 11/21/12
In Christianity, God is not a tyrant God, but a merciful God. Whoever believes in him ALREADY has everlasting life, meaning those that believe will go to heaven. But even if you don't believe now, you can still go to heaven. God isn't so cruel that he would make even his disobedient children go the hell. He will still save those that may reject him at first. The people who will go to heaven "will be as innumerable as the sands on the beach". Only the truly wicked, those that will always do evil and will never repent, will go to hell. More will go to heaven than hell.
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Posted 11/21/12
Let me die first and get back to you on that.
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Posted 11/21/12
You seem very misguided.

This is Heaven. This is your one chance to enjoy anime Watch now or regret as your mind rots in it's final resting place. Muahahaha
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Posted 11/21/12

MBalance wrote:

You seem very misguided.

This is Heaven. This is your one chance to enjoy anime Watch now or regret as your mind rots in it's final resting place. Muahahaha


I never gave my personal beliefs on the matter. I merely attached an answer to a hypothetical question.
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Posted 11/21/12
Heaven = eternal happiness
Happiness = whatever makes you happy
What makes you happy = anime
Anime in heaven= approved
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Posted 11/21/12 , edited 11/21/12

rabbitvang wrote:



The bible is the words of God, and what he preaches. If that is not what he is saying, then is it wrong?

There is nothing wrong with what was written, nor with what I had said. But perhaps I should’ve been more detailed, and I apologize for that, and I will do my best right now. Now, first off, I need to mention again that there is something fundamentally wrong when you try to use one verse in the Bible, and use it in such a way that ignores everything else that is written. The Bible was never meant to be used that way, ever. One must always be attentive to the content and unity of the whole Scripture – for the Bible is a unified book. To understand the context of 1 verse, one must be attentive to the literary (and spiritual) context of every verse, which includes the words and paragraphs that surround it, as well as the entire body of the particular author’s writing (which includes his purpose for writing that particular book) and of course, the entire span of the Bible. Thus, the complete literary context of any verse includes every text from Genesis to Revelation (all 72 books or 66 for protestants). The Bible verse that you used is treated the same way. If you don’t treat it that way, then you can do the same with every verse and you probably could justify killing someone. In fact, back in the 16th century, this is what Martin Luther did, which gave rise to all the different Christian and non-Christian sects that are out today. So if you are wondering whom we have to thank for all these different Christian/non-Christian sects, he is the heretic to thank. I say heretic because he was a Catholic that swayed from the Church and decided that he can properly interpret the Bible himself, which is exactly what he did.
Having said all that, Christ gave all authority to St. Peter (as represented by the keys that were given him to “bind and loose”), the apostles and their successors, and he told them to preach, preach and preach some more. He never told them to write a Bible. As far as we know, Jesus Himself never wrote anything down for us, nor did He tell anyone to write anything down for Him. What we can tell though from the entirety of scripture was that He gave all authority to the apostles and their successors (the bishops), and told them that “whoever hears you, hears me, whoever rejects you, rejects me, and whoever rejects me, rejects him who sent me.” Christ sent the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit to them at Pentecost to guide them all the way to the ends of the earth – till the end of time. Thus, all teaching authority has been given to the Church. So when the Church declares any doctrines (like on Heaven, Hell, sin or whatever) or dogmas, it is because Christ himself gave them this authority to do so to help clarify certain teachings on faith and morals. The Church does not forget any verse, like the one that you mentioned. But instead, as we can tell from Scripture, they have been given direct verbal authority to preach as well as the Holy Spirit to guide them till the end of time. Thus, only the Church has the competency to properly understand what the one verse that you mentioned, means in the complete literary (and spiritual) context of the entire scripture. They have been doing this for 2000 years, and there have many holy saints throughout these 2000 years as evidence, like St. Francis of Assisi (whom most people have heard), that worked so many wonders, signs and miracles (on par with the Apostles) because they have bared witness to the truth as extraordinary examples of faithful disciples of Christ and to His Church.
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Posted 11/21/12
Heaven is perfectly fulfilling.
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Posted 11/21/12 , edited 11/21/12

rabbitvang wrote:
So what you are saying is that, in the Catholic church, the belief of faith is require to go to heaven.


Here is a good site on salvation (unfortunately, it is very long): http://www.catholic.com/tracts/assurance-of-salvation

But to give a quick synopsis of it (so reading that whole thing won't really be necessary), I'll just quote 1 paragraph from it which I think sums it up pretty well:

"Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell."


Now mortal sin equals hell. But there are 3 conditions that must be met before a person incurs a mortal sin. I will quote straight from the Catechism here on the topic of Mortal Sin (without all the footnotes again):

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother." The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

I bolded that last sentence because it is so important - for we cannot tell the state of anyone's soul, even if a person was to go and shoot someone cold blooded - or.......................... if someone has never heard the word of God in their life.


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Posted 11/22/12
it is a misery and a mystery that i do not know.
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Posted 11/22/12
Aye, guys. We're in Hell right now!
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Posted 11/22/12


Nice to know your faith, but I'll have to end this conversation. It not that I do not like talking about it, but we have to stop it before it get too far. We are straying too far from the topic. More like we going in dept about it.
Exor18 
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Posted 11/22/12 , edited 11/22/12

Kikusui10 wrote:

Well i dont believe in heaven but i guess i will play along.

Most likely in heaven there will be new streaming of animes 24/7.


Every anime will be available to watch immediately and they will have full seasons from beginning to end after they announced any anime for first time.
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Posted 11/22/12

Exor18 wrote:


Kikusui10 wrote:

Well i dont believe in heaven but i guess i will play along.

Most likely in heaven there will be new streaming of animes 24/7.


Every anime will be available to watch immediately and they will have full seasons from beginning to end after they announced any anime for first time. :D


Aah paradise indeed.
eos 
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Posted 11/22/12
Well my friend, everyone so far that's been there hasn't complained.
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