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Sword Art Online: Plot being ruined.
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Posted 11/29/12

This is a basic strategy used in all MMO games. It's not something unique or complex.
You can disengage from monster to recover your HP and then go in the fight again.


Just like in Episode 8 where Kirito was able to run away from the Lizard Monste-Oh wait, it caught up to him real easily...


And how many times has this switch strategy been used up to this point in the series?

Ep. 2, 3, 4, 8, and 9 by memory.



Exactly my point. The animator/director failed to show what the other members of the party did exactly to help down the boss' HP.
This is always omitted in MOST of the boss' fight. It's always... Kirito going to block this, switch, then kill. They failed to go into the finer details of the battle.
Instead, throughout the anime, they focused on ridiculous things such as Asuna's "very delicious" sandwich which she learnt from her Cooking Profession. I can recall at least 3 times, Kirito and Asuna talking about that sandwich.
I have nothing against Shoujo elements, I love Ouran and Little Monster, and I don't favour shounen elements over shoujo elements, but focusing on sandwich making instead of focusing on the deeper details of battle elements is ridiculous.


The director showed what the other members of the party did during the 1st floor Boss fight in the form of Diabel giving commands. That's more important than showing the actual members chipping away the bosses health since a whole subplot of Episode 2 was dealing with the image of Beta Testers and how they abandoned the newer players. Then they focused on Kirito and Asuna after it's health went down to red and Diabel dying.
Floor 74 was Kirito showing off his DB skill.
Floor 75 showed everyone attacking (at least the named characters)

The only time they focused on the sandwich was in Ep. 5 and it helped Kirito solve the plot. Ep. 9 focused for 2 minuets on whether or not Kirito should sell or keep Asuna's cooking to himself with the rest of the episode showing the boss. Ep 11 had it to show bonding between Yui, Kirito, and Asuna.



It's hard to explain, but I'll try. In most MMO's, yes it's all slashing, but there are skills you have to use in between those slashing if you want to succeed in killing a boss.

For example the Guild Wars 2 warrior has skills that call "Banners", which it can use to heal allies or gain defensive stats. Or the "stance" which also give defensive stats. Or "signets" to gain defensive or offensive stats.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_skills

Go down to "Utility" and you'll see the different types of banners a Warrior can use. And note the number of skills just for the Warrior alone.


Most of those Warrior Combat skills are basically the same. Slashing, Bashing, Chopping, Spinning around to attack, Smashing, Blocking, Breaking Equips (Kirito does this in one of his duels), Multiple Combo Strikes, Thrust Attacks, Throwing Rocks, etc. are all found in SAO.
Banner and Signet effects that affect others by increasing their stats, curing status infliction, or healing are basically MAGIC.

You're trying too hard to prove SAO isn't an MMORPG because it's missing what gamers would consider as magic (buff skills).



I can't show you a video because in videos you won't be able to grasp what's really happening because it's mostly just slashing action. The skills they use in between might not show up on video.
But in Final Fantasy Online games, the tank uses skills what is called "getting the hate" from the monster, the skill is called, "Aggravate" or something which draws the monsters' attention from the non-tank classes.
They have to use this wisely and in between attacks as there is a cooldown period for these skills.
This is in addition to blocking the special attack from the monster. The tank has to do all of these things. While the support classes have to heal the tank and damage the monster fast.
Furthermore, for each different boss or dungeon, you can't use the same tactics to kill them.
That's why they offer a variety of skills in real life MMO's... use the wrong combination and you'll die many times.
________________________________________________
I'm not expecting them to cover everything in an MMO. But I really don't understand why for most of the boss/dungeon scenes, they show the same tactic and slashing animation.
Because that's not how it works in an MMO game.
If I wasn't an MMO player for 10 years, I wouldn't have picked up on this omission. Just like if I watch an Anime about Japanese History, I wouldn't be able to tell which part is incorrect because I don't know much about Japanese History.
But I know too much about MMO, and Sword Art Online (the anime) does not cover the complexities of an MMO.


You mean like the whole boss fight before Diabel was killed in that one group blocked the attacks and switched to another group to do damage? Or how Agil's group was able to aggro the Boss away from Kirito and Asuna by attacking it with the latter doing the same during The Gleam Eyes fight?
Or how, and I'm sure you're going to ignore it again, Kirito used the wrong Sword Skill against Illfang and got thrown across the room into Asuna? Cause when the game you're playing is just slashing, it doesn't matter what move you use! Not.
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Posted 11/29/12
I only read the first post(including the long spoiler section), but SAO's plot is one of the best as far as anime goes. I understand you being disappointed that the first arc was so short( I agree with you, they could have easily extended it.), but I don't think the second arc is all that bad. Its going to take some time to build up the suspense since this is indeed a new arc, but I think you might come to enjoy it more if you get over the fact that the first arc is over with and the second arc, while not exactly like the first, still has its good points.

To whoever wrote the long spoiler section of the OP: You may not like where it is headed, but some of the things you try to pass of as fact are just misguided opinions. Open your mind a little and you might actually like where it is headed.
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20 / M / TX, USA
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Posted 11/29/12
Still best anime with this concept since .hack:sign//. Although it does have its weak points in the second arc ALO is not a very good arc to start out with. What they should have done is make this a fifty two episode anime so that I could just say "oh well GGO is after this and mothers rosario too" But I cant since it seems a season two which is very likely wont come for at least a year well I know we wont be expecting one this next spring season or summer season.
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Posted 11/30/12 , edited 11/30/12

FallenYmir wrote:
Most of those Warrior Combat skills are basically the same. Slashing, Bashing, Chopping, Spinning around to attack, Smashing, Blocking, Breaking Equips (Kirito does this in one of his duels), Multiple Combo Strikes, Thrust Attacks, Throwing Rocks, etc. are all found in SAO.
Banner and Signet effects that affect others by increasing their stats, curing status infliction, or healing are basically MAGIC.

You're trying too hard to prove SAO isn't an MMORPG because it's missing what gamers would consider as magic (buff skills).


While I do agree with your earlier comments about "Protect" and "Shell" being magic, I don't agree with you saying "banners" are magic.

Banners are physical items just like a sword is, therefore they are not "magic". The sword (in any MMO game) gives attributes to attack power, the banners in this instance give defensive attributes which is required to kill a boss.

Buff and support skills are important in any MMO element.

If you say buff is magic... then teleportation stones are obviously magic as well.




You mean like the whole boss fight before Diabel was killed in that one group blocked the attacks and switched to another group to do damage? Or how Agil's group was able to aggro the Boss away from Kirito and Asuna by attacking it with the latter doing the same during The Gleam Eyes fight?
Or how, and I'm sure you're going to ignore it again, Kirito used the wrong Sword Skill against Illfang and got thrown across the room into Asuna? Cause when the game you're playing is just slashing, it doesn't matter what move you use! Not.


If it did, then it obviously wasn't elaborate enough. They didn't use any particular skill to aggro the boss or the skill wasn't mentioned.


I'm not ignoring your comments, if I didn't respond to a particular point, you obviously made a valid argument I don't have a counter-argument for and I respect your opinion.

But this is how I see the anime from my perspective.

I haven't even started on the lack of quests and side quests in the anime.
Yes, passing all the dungeon levels is the main objective... but there are several different quests in an MMO, not just that one.
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17 / M / Australia
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Posted 11/30/12
Jeebus, all this discussion intimidates me from saying anything.
For the people saying stuff about Gary Stus or Incest or whatever ruining the story or the anime or something, I personally just go with the flow. It's certainly very different from the first arc, and yeah. That's what I like to see it as. Something different. I mean, it IS a completely different saga and everything.

It's like if somebody was eating a strawberry ice cream and was about the finish it, and then somebody else slapped that ice cream out of their hands and handed them a chocolate one-- yeahidon'tknowwherei'mgoingwiththisbutilikebothflavours

In other words, I only skimmed through the OP. o3o
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23 / M / This Dying World
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Posted 11/30/12 , edited 11/30/12
I'd like to remind everyone that has been talking about the hack N slash relating to the plots and story etc.

RED HERRING

You might think that talking about what an MMO is or isn't is related to SAO but... you get the idea

taken from zendude "LAWL"

edit: there are so many red herrings and ad hominems in this thread
mid012 
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M / Kamurocho
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Posted 11/30/12
Stopped watching when he learned how to fly in Alfheim. I dunno, suddenly lost interest in all of it.
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Posted 11/30/12
You are absolutely correct they say the anime is Sword Art Online but it really isn't now they screw up the story with Alo As Domo Kevin said just add some bad-ass arcs in there jazz it up a bit the story line was great at the beginning but now they are just trying to milk all the money they can get from the series
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29 / M / Bellingham WA, USA
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Posted 11/30/12

cartoonchris wrote:

You are absolutely correct they say the anime is Sword Art Online but it really isn't now they screw up the story with Alo As Domo Kevin said just add some bad-ass arcs in there jazz it up a bit the story line was great at the beginning but now they are just trying to milk all the money they can get from the series


No thanks, I don't want SAO to go the route of filler.

And it's still called Sword Art Online because
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Posted 11/30/12

GayAsianBoy wrote:


FallenYmir wrote:
Most of those Warrior Combat skills are basically the same. Slashing, Bashing, Chopping, Spinning around to attack, Smashing, Blocking, Breaking Equips (Kirito does this in one of his duels), Multiple Combo Strikes, Thrust Attacks, Throwing Rocks, etc. are all found in SAO.
Banner and Signet effects that affect others by increasing their stats, curing status infliction, or healing are basically MAGIC.

You're trying too hard to prove SAO isn't an MMORPG because it's missing what gamers would consider as magic (buff skills).


While I do agree with your earlier comments about "Protect" and "Shell" being magic, I don't agree with you saying "banners" are magic.

Banners are physical items just like a sword is, therefore they are not "magic". The sword (in any MMO game) gives attributes to attack power, the banners in this instance give defensive attributes which is required to kill a boss.

Buff and support skills are important in any MMO element.

If you say buff is magic... then teleportation stones are obviously magic as well.




You mean like the whole boss fight before Diabel was killed in that one group blocked the attacks and switched to another group to do damage? Or how Agil's group was able to aggro the Boss away from Kirito and Asuna by attacking it with the latter doing the same during The Gleam Eyes fight?
Or how, and I'm sure you're going to ignore it again, Kirito used the wrong Sword Skill against Illfang and got thrown across the room into Asuna? Cause when the game you're playing is just slashing, it doesn't matter what move you use! Not.


If it did, then it obviously wasn't elaborate enough. They didn't use any particular skill to aggro the boss or the skill wasn't mentioned.


I'm not ignoring your comments, if I didn't respond to a particular point, you obviously made a valid argument I don't have a counter-argument for and I respect your opinion.

But this is how I see the anime from my perspective.

I haven't even started on the lack of quests and side quests in the anime.
Yes, passing all the dungeon levels is the main objective... but there are several different quests in an MMO, not just that one.


Any item that gives a status debuff, or anything other than a defense debuff is either magic or working off of some principle that they didn't like. In Many games armor acts are armor, no attack bonuses, and the ability to resist things like poison are generally a magic effect of some sort, hence it makes sense they are absent from SAO. And yes, the crystals are magic, they are the potions are the only magic items in the entire game, and he only added them because it would have been unclearable without them.

Not all MMO's have a direct skill to agro the boss, instead it might be a matter of getting a critical hit, disrupting its attack, or even healing someone it is attacking. What they did was disrupt its ability to attack the other player, causing its attention to switch to them, and as it was distracted when they attacked they got high damage, which is another trigger.

I think you are really overestimating what a game needs to be a good MMO. Remember, this MMO isn't one where the players are sitting around pressing button, they feel as if it is all physically real, so athletic ability and tricks are more important than your standard MMO and the bosses and skills are designed with that in mind.
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24 / M / Norway.
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Posted 11/30/12
In my personal opinion SAO is an perfect example of wasted potential.

SAO could've easily been made into an longer more in-depth story, where you'd get to see the struggle of clearing the floors, killing bosses, developing relationships and then losing them, losing friends etc etc.. Instead of jumping 20 floors in an episode about fishing or having awkward teen-feel-moments with an virtual girlfriend and their software daughter. It had 100 floors of potential, but ended up exploiting the equivalent of 5 floors, at most.

It has/ had the potential of becoming one of the greats (imo), but ended up just being one of the many. And yes, I do think that it's over-rated, like Justing Bieber and Twilight.. Where people'll end up treating their former fandom as an dirty secret once they grow up and develop the power of reasonable thought in about 5-10... 30 years time. (For those who'll undoubtedly not get it, that was something of a joke.. Mainly the part comparing SAO with your JellyB and TwiTwi..)

That being said, SAO.. AHO.. RLO (what ever the proper name would be now) does have/had some strong points..

Good animation, good voice acting, creative plot.. at first.. , entertaining combat/battles, well-designed world.. for the most part.. and the potential/hope to become something more. I'm probably forgetting something that I'll remember tomorrow, but it's past 1 am and I was supposed to go to bed a while ago.. :p

My point is, it could've been so much more if only they'd chosen to focus on other things and had the balls to not follow the mainstream anime cookie-cutter character setups and developments. It's probably good for those who haven't watched a lot of anime, but those that have will be able to predict how it'll go based on the fact that they've seen it play out before.. again and again, though with different plots/storylines etc..

This is all in my own personal opinion of course, and I'm assuming that more people will disagree than agree with it. And they'll of course be free to do so.
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Posted 12/1/12

Byzantine279 wrote:

Any item that gives a status debuff, or anything other than a defense debuff is either magic or working off of some principle that they didn't like. In Many games armor acts are armor, no attack bonuses, and the ability to resist things like poison are generally a magic effect of some sort, hence it makes sense they are absent from SAO. And yes, the crystals are magic, they are the potions are the only magic items in the entire game, and he only added them because it would have been unclearable without them.

Not all MMO's have a direct skill to agro the boss, instead it might be a matter of getting a critical hit, disrupting its attack, or even healing someone it is attacking. What they did was disrupt its ability to attack the other player, causing its attention to switch to them, and as it was distracted when they attacked they got high damage, which is another trigger.

I think you are really overestimating what a game needs to be a good MMO. Remember, this MMO isn't one where the players are sitting around pressing button, they feel as if it is all physically real, so athletic ability and tricks are more important than your standard MMO and the bosses and skills are designed with that in mind.



You've made a good point. Maybe it's the director's intention.

But in my opinion, the fact that they have the "Healing Potion" in the first place indicates that they're trying to mimic a MMORPG structure; not a realistic battle structure.
If you didn't know, nowadays, "Healing Potion" is considered a primitive mechanic for MMORPG. Modern MMORPG's now allow you to have only 1 or 2 heal skill and you have to survive based on that whereas MMORPG's 10 years ago, you can drink unlimited healing potions.

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, our experiences in life will affect the way we criticise a show. Nobody is right or wrong.
Forums are made for anime watchers to exchange ideas and opinion and I'm glad to read yours.



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Posted 12/1/12 , edited 12/1/12

Nozferi wrote:

In my personal opinion SAO is an perfect example of wasted potential.

SAO could've easily been made into an longer more in-depth story, where you'd get to see the struggle of clearing the floors, killing bosses, developing relationships and then losing them, losing friends etc etc..

It has/ had the potential of becoming one of the greats (imo), but ended up just being one of the many.

This is all in my own personal opinion of course, and I'm assuming that more people will disagree than agree with it. And they'll of course be free to do so.



I agree with you there.

Indeed this anime could have been much much better but the production company fail to see that ,Animation studio are always limited to how much funding they have on a particular title and then they plan the course for it and so the director has to follow suit.

There were 25 chapters in the novel for SAO or the Aincrad arc alone and a bunch of side stories where Kirito's encounter with those female characters comes in.They could have dedicated the 25 episodes for for that arc alone and develop its potential.

In the Alfheim arc or ALO , they are following the novel close but they took out one chapter so far that has so much art in it .It would have been better if they separated the seasons between these two , creating alot of aniticipation between the 2 arc. and using that to the fullest .

The weakness lies in their adaptation of the novels and the strategy of their marketing department. .
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Posted 12/1/12

Nozferi wrote:

In my personal opinion SAO is an perfect example of wasted potential.

SAO could've easily been made into an longer more in-depth story, where you'd get to see the struggle of clearing the floors, killing bosses, developing relationships and then losing them, losing friends etc etc.. Instead of jumping 20 floors in an episode about fishing or having awkward teen-feel-moments with an virtual girlfriend and their software daughter. It had 100 floors of potential, but ended up exploiting the equivalent of 5 floors, at most.

It has/ had the potential of becoming one of the greats (imo), but ended up just being one of the many. And yes, I do think that it's over-rated, like Justing Bieber and Twilight.. Where people'll end up treating their former fandom as an dirty secret once they grow up and develop the power of reasonable thought in about 5-10... 30 years time. (For those who'll undoubtedly not get it, that was something of a joke.. Mainly the part comparing SAO with your JellyB and TwiTwi..)

That being said, SAO.. AHO.. RLO (what ever the proper name would be now) does have/had some strong points..

Good animation, good voice acting, creative plot.. at first.. , entertaining combat/battles, well-designed world.. for the most part.. and the potential/hope to become something more. I'm probably forgetting something that I'll remember tomorrow, but it's past 1 am and I was supposed to go to bed a while ago.. :p

My point is, it could've been so much more if only they'd chosen to focus on other things and had the balls to not follow the mainstream anime cookie-cutter character setups and developments. It's probably good for those who haven't watched a lot of anime, but those that have will be able to predict how it'll go based on the fact that they've seen it play out before.. again and again, though with different plots/storylines etc..

This is all in my own personal opinion of course, and I'm assuming that more people will disagree than agree with it. And they'll of course be free to do so.


I agree. This anime had such high potential. They could have kept the main plot about clearing the game to be able to log out or die. This can be cramped into 25 episodes. It was great. I watched SOA because of it. I was really engaged. Then episode 15 had to show up and take a huge dump on this anime.
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Posted 12/2/12

Wiliest wrote:

I only read the first post(including the long spoiler section), but SAO's plot is one of the best as far as anime goes. I understand you being disappointed that the first arc was so short( I agree with you, they could have easily extended it.), but I don't think the second arc is all that bad. Its going to take some time to build up the suspense since this is indeed a new arc, but I think you might come to enjoy it more if you get over the fact that the first arc is over with and the second arc, while not exactly like the first, still has its good points.

To whoever wrote the long spoiler section of the OP: You may not like where it is headed, but some of the things you try to pass of as fact are just misguided opinions. Open your mind a little and you might actually like where it is headed.


Not to come off as super aggressive, but please do tell me what was just misguided opinions. I'm honestly curious about it. SAO's plot isn't one of the best. I can agree that the story itself is good, but the plot is not.

I'm not hating on everything in SAO, I'm just hating on the bad things.

For example (AND THIS IS A SPOILER FOR EP 22!)



So please, instead of saying you can prove me wrong - actually prove me wrong.

So far only one user has proved me wrong, and that was on my usage of Deus Ex Machina (bless her, FallenYmir).

Oh, and pointing out that I remembered wrong about how much Kirito/Suguha knew about the cousin thing.
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