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Sword Art Online: Plot being ruined.
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Posted 12/31/12

Chochobot wrote:


Lauriet wrote:

Not that anyone is reading either of you.


I am... Since I have to turn in early and I have not much to do :)

I find xCrimsonEX hilarious at his opinions being 'facts'.


I find it hilarious when anyone thinks their opinion is fact.
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Posted 12/31/12

Lauriet wrote:

But you're from Vegas... therefore you're probably betting. Can't trust you being objective, sorry.


Lol, you honestly think people who live in Vegas gamble? No sir, you got it all wrong...

We're the ones who take tourist's money. That's how we survive!
Posted 12/31/12

aidenraine wrote:


Chochobot wrote:


Lauriet wrote:

Not that anyone is reading either of you.


I am... Since I have to turn in early and I have not much to do :)

I find xCrimsonEX hilarious at his opinions being 'facts'.


I find it hilarious when anyone thinks their opinion is fact.


I can agree with that.
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Posted 12/31/12






I will admit/have admitted that some things are subjective but some things are not. Want to fact check feel free to just make sure to truly pay attention to it. An example: "Kirito dual-wields" this is a fact not an opinion.
Posted 12/31/12
Primary school, hello again.
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Posted 12/31/12

I will admit/have admitted that some things are subjective but some things are not. Want to fact check feel free to just make sure to truly pay attention to it. An example: "Kirito dual-wields" this is a fact not an opinion.


No, What I mean to say is that through out all the SAO threads I've seen here on CR, you keep saying that 'critics' share their opinions as if it's the right opinion to have or in other words a fact. So because of that you refuse to believe anything they say even if they bring up good arguments. To me, it seems you get hostile when someone criticizes Sword art online.
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Posted 12/31/12

Chochobot wrote:


I will admit/have admitted that some things are subjective but some things are not. Want to fact check feel free to just make sure to truly pay attention to it. An example: "Kirito dual-wields" this is a fact not an opinion.


No, What I mean to say is that through out all the SAO threads I've seen here on CR, you keep saying that 'critics' share their opinions as if it's the right opinion to have or in other words a fact. So because of that you refuse to believe anything they say even if they bring up good arguments. To me, it seems you get hostile when someone criticizes Sword art online.


"good argument" or not is still subjective, as it's still their opinion. if they don't enjoy it, then why are they spending so much time talking about it and watching it? I'll just never understand that.

me, I enjoyed SAO. could it have been better? sure. could it have been worse? hell yes. it's not the greatest anime ever, but it's not the worst anime ever, either. but I still enjoyed it from start to finish. if there are people who didn't, that's their choice. good for them. let me have my choice, and stop trying to tell me I'm wrong, or try and point out what you think is wrong with it to try and sway my opinion.
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Posted 12/31/12 , edited 12/31/12

There's that misconception...its not just SAO, thats, I guess, just the most visible. I will admit to being hostile towards critics of all types because as I said before I only see them as destructive. I've seen them on youtube, other forums, and various other places and have seen people that have turned away from anime or manga because of them. Hence my hostility towards them. And my key question for them is: What gives them the right to decide if an anime is 'good' or 'bad'? (since not everyone wants the same thing as them)
Posted 12/31/12

xCrimsonEX wrote:

I never said it was a bad thing thats your interpretation of it. I understand there's only so many 'hero-types' out there. Yeah cause it'd be an amazing anime if the MC went against a monster and died in first episode. Add to this Kirito didn't just wake up one day and say I'm the best, then poof status changed. He did what every gamer does and ground to higher levels with his prior knowledge of the beta testing. *sigh* again for like the 3rd or 4th time: what response should the 'maidens' give? Should they run him out of town cause he's a nice guy? Please, this makes no sense what so ever. Yeah dear god don't let a character try to tell anything about his -verse Amazing how easily you dismiss a group of close friends deaths and how you ignore that its one of the things that reinforced Kirito's loner philosophy


The problem is that we, the viewers, did not see his growth in levels which is what disappointed many; the original light novel (chapter 2) has the characters start out at around Floor 70. The anime provided some of the interactions that took place between Floor 1 and the 70s but they didn't show him working hard for said gear; it just tells us (refer to my "Show, don't tell" comment) that Kirito has x,y,z; heck, we're even told that Kirito has the top (best ?) reaction time in the game.

The writer made the ladies fall in love with Kirito after their first interaction; that was completely unnecessary -- he swept them off their feet for no reason other than saving them; having them thank him is enough.

The verse can be explain better through a demonstration rather than talking about it; would you rather see that the sky is blue or be told that it is blue? The reason I said that the Sachi arc is irrelevant is due to how character's remains the same for the most part; prior to joining the guild, he is a loner, and after the incident he is still a loner; the guild existed as a plot device so the viewer can be more sympathetic to Kirito and for the viewing to put themselves in Kirito's shoes thus fulfilling the character-insertion aspect.


If I help a girl out irl you know what I get looked at in a positive light (what a shocking revelation /sarcasm). Do it enough and she may even like me *shock*


Tell that to my friend whom approached girls with nice intentions (i.e. picking up their pens off the floor and returning it to them) and gets called a creeper. He's totally bagging the ladies now.


By acting like your opinion trumps all others you put yourself on a pedestal. By trying to critique something you put yourself on a pedestal. How would you know a great anime if you don't even know of any? SAO isn't a 'great' anime its a 'very good' at best and a 'good' at worst. Righteous...sorry gotta catch my breath on that one... I'm just preventing a good anime from getting b.s.'d to death by critics who nitpick every detail they can to justify hating an anime. Two things: 1) At best I'm a fact checker and at worst I'm a counterbalance but I'll admit that some of what I say is opinion and not fact 2) my words don't harm anyone while your (and all the other critics) words do harm various mediums as some people actually listen to you


So providing feedback means my opinion is higher than others? Geeze, I guess we should all not talk about any given show since that would imply our opinions to be the one true one. Okay, you believe SAO to be good, that's fine, just provide arguments for why you think it is. I've been providing my own, I expect the same for those who think it is good/great/whatever they think it is. So it's my fault that people chose to listen to my thoughts? You can sway people from listening to my criticisms by providing your thoughts on what the series captured well.


And again she did show signs of resistance at least 2 times and you're the one thinking that she just somehow mystically break free so Kirito doesn't have to rescue her cause thats totally realistic. And again you're wrong my aim isn't at SAO critics, its at ALL critics as they serve no purpose what so ever except destructive one. Good luck with that as your the ones that spew opinions and b.s. around


No, from what I re-watched, she sat there and took the sexual harassment (episodes 17 and 18); she did talk back, I give you that, but she did not force him away. I see you fail to see that constructive criticism exists. What's wrong with me providing my opinion? I guess you only want to see praise for SAO rather than actual discussion.


Supporting characters aren't supposed to add to a show, they move the story along. They are supposed to do their purpose and then become irrelevant as they are support not main . Good luck with that I'll stick with coffee and plenty of anime as I don't intentionally try to tear apart every one I start to watch


You're wrong, side characters can serve many purposes in a show; the three I listed are the simple roles they may perform. They support the story through their interactions thus adding (or in some cases, detracting) to the show.


aidenraine wrote:

I find it hilarious when anyone thinks their opinion is fact.


I think it depends on the person's writing style and the way people may interpret said writing; I believe the quote form V for Vendetta goes: "Words will always retain their power, words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth." The bold part is what I agree with most; the remaining part is subjective.
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Posted 12/31/12

AsuraCryin wrote:
Saving a girl automatically makes them fall for me? I guess I better go and build myself a harem by saving all maidens in danger.

Saving Asuna didn't make her fall in love with him. She was already in love with him because it was through him she gained the strength to continue living in the harsh world of SAO. Before she met him she was more or less a zombie devoid of feelings because she emotionally shut down from the trauma. The final act that made her fall for him was when she saw he was really living in that world not just surviving. He made a home for himself in a world that would drive most people insane and very much did so to many characters. Did you not pay attention at all?


Again, you're putting damn words into my mouth; I said she should show signs of resistance -- note how I didn't mention specifications or dictate the actions to be taken; I merely said she should show signs of resistance which could amount to what you suggested or even physically pushing Sugou away. If anyone has unworldly expectations here, it is you -- you expect people who think lowly of SAO to crawl back into their holes and to use your own words against you: "I will use my own voice to fight against the b.s. I see like yourself."


She DID show signs of resistance.

You obviously didn't pay much attention at all to this series if you didn't catch these things
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Posted 12/31/12 , edited 12/31/12


There's that misconception...its not just SAO, thats, I guess, just the most visible. I will admit to being hostile towards critics of all types because as I said before I only see them as destructive. I've seen them on youtube, other forums, and various other places and have seen people that have turned away from anime or manga because of them. Hence my hostility towards them. And my key question for them is: What gives them the right to decide if an anime is 'good' or 'bad'? (since not everyone wants the same thing as them)


The fans decide whether an anime is good or bad. If one person thinks their opinion is fact then it's their own delusion but there are people who point out the flaws and provide reasonable arguments with evidence as oppose to someone who just says "This anime sucks". At least that's what I think.

Edit: Actually I was wrong to say that about fans deciding if an anime is good or bad, I meant that majority of fans will dub it good or bad even if it isn't.
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Posted 12/31/12 , edited 12/31/12


And as I've said before on this same topic: you may want to see his growth through episodes but not everyone wants that. You'd still have others that would complain about how slow its progressing blah blah. His gear is background info that isn't per se important to the story and anyone that focuses on it really is just nitpicking.


Again I see nothing wrong with this as he's a nice guy who went out of his way, in some cases waaaaaay out, to help them and in a life-and-death game none-the-less.



Insulting a work and actively trying to tear it apart by grasping whatever details you can is not beneficial to anyone. Talk about it amongst your comrades and leave it there. You are responsible for your words whether you want to accept that or not hence you are responsible for anyone that decides thanks to those words they'd rather not use the time to watch the anime.



And again I point out that there is only so much she can do in her situation (weaponless, against a GM, and possibly with all skills locked). And pulling away isn't a form of resistance?




Yeah cause when I write support characters I keep them in the light, no I don't. Once their job is done I shift them out because thats why they are there. And why do get to tell the writer how to handle their own support characters anyway?


Except that I don't want even 1 person dissuaded away from an anime they might otherwise enjoy. And unfortunately I've already seen several people that saw the negative comments and decide not to watch it. Words have weight which is something critics fail to realize and/or accept responsibility for.
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Posted 12/31/12


Except that I don't want even 1 person dissuaded away from an anime they might otherwise enjoy. And unfortunately I've already seen several people that saw the negative comments and decide not to watch it. Words have weight which is something critics fail to realize and/or accept responsibility for.


Well that's a person's own fault for being easily influenced by someone's words, they should take those words into account but they should also give it a chance before giving up on it. Critics are almost the same as someone who praises the anime. You can't just expect everything to be good reviews or opinions.
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Posted 12/31/12


imo shouldn't be any real critiquing period as what's good for one person isn't good for another thus breaking the system from the start. I don't like people that overly praise an anime (or w/e medium it is) either. A good review of SAO from a friend of mine: Its just not my thing. the end. No long insulting it, no degrading the fans of it, no nitpicking, no implication it shouldn't be watched; just simple 'its just not my thing'.
Posted 12/31/12

Mythalian wrote:
Saving Asuna didn't make her fall in love with him. She was already in love with him because it was through him she gained the strength to continue living in the harsh world of SAO. Before she met him she was more or less a zombie devoid of feelings because she emotionally shut down from the trauma. The final act that made her fall for him was when she saw he was really living in that world not just surviving. He made a home for himself in a world that would drive most people insane and very much did so to many characters. Did you not pay attention at all?


Except that I wasn't talking about Asuna but the other girls; I've already mentioned in the thread why I do not buy Asuna and Kirito's romance and I think it is poorly developed. You say that Asuna was zombie-like prior to her interactions with Kirito but I do not see that in her character; the closest moment I can think of her being a bit zombie-like is Episode 2 but it is not that visible in that episode. Please point me out to these "insane" characters you mentioned.


She DID show signs of resistance.

You obviously didn't pay much attention at all to this series if you didn't catch these things


Okay, I concede that she showed resistance; but she's still shown to be a damsel in distress despite her earlier representations.


xCrimsonEX wrote:

And as I've said before on this same topic: you may want to see his growth through episodes but not everyone wants that. You'd still have others that would complain about how slow its progressing blah blah. His gear is background info that isn't per se important to the story and anyone that focuses on it really is just nitpicking.


His gear not being important? I vehemently disagree here; in most MMORPGs, gear are one of the most important items player have -- to claim that is is not important would mean that there is no need for it; Kirito might as well have punched Gleam Eyes to death if gear is not an important matter.


Funny cause I help many people out and get kindness back though I don't know if it goes beyond that. Still don't know what you'd rather see, as I said before them treat him as a jerk or as if he did nothing at all even though in several of the cases he went out of his way and risked his life helping them.


I already mentioned what could had been done. To reiterate: the girls (Silicia, Lizbeth, etc.) did not need to fall in love with Kirito; the love aspect is completely unnecessary.


Insulting a work and actively trying to tear it apart by grasping whatever details you can is not beneficial to anyone. Talk about it amongst your comrades and leave it there. You are responsible for your words whether you want to accept that or not hence you are responsible for anyone that decides thanks to those words they'd rather not use the time to watch the anime.


Again, how is it my fault if people chose to follow my words? You're insisting that the fault lies in me because people will blindly accept what's before them. If a politician tells you to vote for him and you don't do research on candidates and vote for him; do you blame the politician for telling you to vote for him or yourself for blindly believing his words?


And again I point out that there is only so much she can do in her situation (weaponless, against a GM, and possibly with all skills locked). And pulling away isn't a form of resistance?


If you revisit the episode, she sat there and resisted the sexual harassment by means of barking back at Sugou when he talked to her; other than that, she did little about the physicals actions Sugou performed. In any case, I already conceded that she showed signs of resistance above. Before you bring Episode 24 ago, I was mainly speaking about episodes 17 and 18.


Yeah cause when I write support characters I keep them in the light, no I don't. Once their job is done I shift them out because thats why they are there. And why do get to tell the writer how to handle their own support characters anyway?


I'll repeat: most of the supporting cast were irrelevant to the show so what was the point of adding them? They did little to nothing for the main story. The girls added to the harem factor that many people brought up. If the characters become throwaway ones, why should I poor any sympathy or empathy into them; if they're empty so you might as well not introduce them at all.
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