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Nearly all Harem Genres Sucks
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Posted 12/2/12


Well I can't really argue with you that TWGOK is one of those good anime that chooses to be different in the genre

This is how I view your last comment in is post, yes some anime has potential to differentiate itself from a generic one, but then you have to consider, if it is made different will it get the audience viewership and sales? The anime industry is still a business, you have to have the things that appeals to the target audience, so sometimes what seems like a good show to you might have little appeal elsewhere.
Explains why moe is so huge for example, because it gets the sales and viewer numbers even if it doesn't appeal to you

Anyway, yes I agree, generic harem anime is a dime a dozen, the shows that do shine are rarer but still there
People think you hate all harem probably because of the way you worded the thread title, it just makes it seem like you have a negative view of it


Nope, just fanboy ranting over the fact that it upturned the usual general rule of first girl wins lol
Damn it, it was supposed to be Sena, why develop her character if she was just going to be beaten out by Miu, the most static character there? /rant over
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Posted 12/2/12
"Clannad" is considered a harem, that being said, there are quite a few good ones out there, the only one I've disliked so far is Goshuushou-sama Ninomiya-Kun...Had to force myself to finish it.
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Posted 12/2/12

Davidvauhn wrote:

"Clannad" is considered a harem, that being said, there are quite a few good ones out there, the only one I've disliked so far is Goshuushou-sama Ninomiya-Kun...Had to force myself to finish it.


Like I said, not all harem are bad. Did you even read my thread properly? Build up your reading skills by taking 3 minutes to read my thread properly or don't try and start an argument.
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Posted 12/2/12 , edited 12/2/12
If you consume enough fiction, you'll see that there is really very little (I have never seen any, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist) that is truly original. The fact that you expect anything original from any fictional medium (anime in particular) shows that you really haven't seen all that much of it. You think School Days is original? You might be right that it's a first in anime (I'd argue that homicidal jealous females are nothing new, but whatever), but I've read books from hundreds of years ago that depict similar situations. Evangelion? Madoka? Ergo Proxy? Serial Experiments Lain? All of these shows are compilations of existing ideas. No new information was presented, excepting nomenclature. This in particular surprised me:


DomoKevin wrote:
an otaku who is only interested in playing games and didn't like real women. That's new.


No, it's not. In fact, I feel like I've even seen this stereotype parodied in a couple of shows. But that doesn't make it bad. The lifeblood of an anime (or really any medium) is connecting the minds of the audience with the events of the show. You can't do that unless the audience understands the events of the show to begin with. This is why kids are sometimes confused with "adult material" (I don't mean porn here, although that applies too). They have no existing ideas with which they can make sense of the ideas that are being shown to them. Even with adults, when you learn something new, you use ideas that are already known to you to piece together the new information until it makes sense. All in all, if you watch enough anime, you will start to find that nothing is really surprising. I can honestly say that I haven't been surprised at a show in years. The closest I ever come is "oh, so they went that way with it." If you read enough books, this will become even more apparent.

To apply this to your post, I will say that, yes, it is boring to watch the same thing over and over again, and harems do that a lot -- so do Shounens, and romances, and psychological thrillers, and heart-breakers. Your fault is that your complaints against harems apply to all of anime, and really to all of fiction. Harems are just a subset. I understand your complaints, but you will (hopefully) soon find that there can be nothing really surprising about a show, although there is nothing wrong with a show being fascinating or enjoyable. The beauty of fiction is not that it presents something new to you, but that it reminds you of of things that are familiar to you -- things that you value. That said, of all the anime genres in existence, harems are the least likely to make me want to watch a second time. I enjoy a good deal of them every season, and I have a good time while watching, but I almost never get the feeling that it's anything special. I think the only harem I own is Bakemonogatari, which is incredible and one of my favorites. So to be fair, I do understand your sentiment, but suggest that you stop making your judgements of shows based on originality -- you'll get bored pretty quickly.
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Posted 12/2/12

DomoKevin wrote:


EJHicks wrote:


kaamaru wrote:

I've disliked harems ever since I watched School Days.


School Days is the oddball of harems. No other harem is like that at all. THAT series is one you shouldn't base your decision of harems on.


School days was great because of the ending XD Plus, I liked how there were no generic scenes where kiss scenes are interupted EVERY SINGLE TIME. And that they choose the protagonist to actually have sex with the girls. I mean a lot of harems should do this. Just because it's an anime doesn't mean the protagonist isn't allowed to have sex. They can. They just gotta not put the sex scene into it but let us audience know that he just had sex. That's it. Like freakin make a scene where they just put their clothes on so we know that they just fucked the shit outta each other.


You do realize that if any of the women knew how he really was beforehand, he probably wouldn't have gotten his harem in the first place? All harem leads generally have one key trait that makes the women fall in love with him: kindness. I don't like School Days' ending put it is unique for a harem. Of course, if someone did something like that now, it wouldn't be because it's been done before.
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Posted 12/2/12 , edited 12/2/12

EJHicks wrote:


DomoKevin wrote:


EJHicks wrote:


kaamaru wrote:

I've disliked harems ever since I watched School Days.


School Days is the oddball of harems. No other harem is like that at all. THAT series is one you shouldn't base your decision of harems on.


School days was great because of the ending XD Plus, I liked how there were no generic scenes where kiss scenes are interupted EVERY SINGLE TIME. And that they choose the protagonist to actually have sex with the girls. I mean a lot of harems should do this. Just because it's an anime doesn't mean the protagonist isn't allowed to have sex. They can. They just gotta not put the sex scene into it but let us audience know that he just had sex. That's it. Like freakin make a scene where they just put their clothes on so we know that they just fucked the shit outta each other.


You do realize that if any of the women knew how he really was beforehand, he probably wouldn't have gotten his harem in the first place? All harem leads generally have one key trait that makes the women fall in love with him: kindness. I don't like School Days' ending put it is unique for a harem. Of course, if someone did something like that now, it wouldn't be because it's been done before.


Well I liked School Days and it was definitely unique, but now every time I see a guy in a harem I just start thinking he's an asshole. A lot of harems are full of fan service and have no real plot, though I know there are exceptions. Would Clannad, Amagami and Kannon be considered harems? I thought they were great.
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Posted 12/2/12

kaamaru wrote:


EJHicks wrote:


DomoKevin wrote:


EJHicks wrote:


kaamaru wrote:

I've disliked harems ever since I watched School Days.


School Days is the oddball of harems. No other harem is like that at all. THAT series is one you shouldn't base your decision of harems on.


School days was great because of the ending XD Plus, I liked how there were no generic scenes where kiss scenes are interupted EVERY SINGLE TIME. And that they choose the protagonist to actually have sex with the girls. I mean a lot of harems should do this. Just because it's an anime doesn't mean the protagonist isn't allowed to have sex. They can. They just gotta not put the sex scene into it but let us audience know that he just had sex. That's it. Like freakin make a scene where they just put their clothes on so we know that they just fucked the shit outta each other.


You do realize that if any of the women knew how he really was beforehand, he probably wouldn't have gotten his harem in the first place? All harem leads generally have one key trait that makes the women fall in love with him: kindness. I don't like School Days' ending put it is unique for a harem. Of course, if someone did something like that now, it wouldn't be because it's been done before.


Well I liked School Days and it was definitely unique, but now every time I see a guy in a harem I just start thinking he's an asshole. A lot of harems are full of fan service and have no real plot. I'm sure there are exceptions though. What do you guys recon is the best? I think I might just be labeling all the shit anime as harems though. I mean I guess you could call Clannad, amagami and kannon harems, though I thought they were all great.


Seitokai no Ichizon (haven't seen the second season yet though), The World God Only Knows, Monogatari series (its arguable that it has harem elements in the plot though is not tagged as a harem on MAL) are all pretty good
I need to get around to watching Amagami sooner or later :/
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Posted 12/2/12
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, there are a lot of harems I like yet a lot I thought sucked. So I view it like any anime genre you have the good and the bad.
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Posted 12/2/12
Having an "original" idea is something that gets really difficult if billions of people walked the earth before you.
So don't put your expections to high up in the air. Is a story about demons not original, because demons are a "concept" introduced already in Mesopotamia?
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Posted 12/2/12
Ok, there are some things that bug me about harem titles, but I don't hate the genre. Its easy to generalize things, but not all series are created equal. Just like any genre, you'll have good titles and you'll have bad titles.
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Posted 12/2/12
is some one mad cus he not getting love from the ladies
Posted 12/2/12
Harem almost always sucks, but there are a few exceptions that are very well done. One that comes to mind is -

Sainunkoku Monogatari. It is an excellent set of light novels/manga/anime that is a reverse harem that is NOT perverted, stupid, or badly done. All the characters have unique, excellent personalities, the romance is very realistic and NOT the main focus; there is so much characterization and the plot is brilliant and very intricate.

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Posted 12/2/12

AnimeKami wrote:

A few things:

I loved this,


DomoKevin wrote:
If you're an experienced anime fan like me


Using ethos right off the bat *smirking as I type this* anyways moving on...

More of a rant like my predecessors have mentioned, I did however read the post.

I must say that if Rito2Ru sees this thread he would make an effort in commenting this thread(don't make me look bad Harem King).

Let me try this tactic, If you're as experienced in anime as I am, you would know there are various factors to the Harem THEME like with all anime; if a person can see through the boobs, shower scenes etc... you would actually get to know what the anime is trying to convey.

Effective??? >.>

EDIT: adding fan service to a story doesn't mean the whole thing sucks, it gives you something to look at, guess some people just don't like boobs, sad day...


Maybe we just want an anime with a good, well-written story that we can show to some of our friends that are newer to anime without coming off like a pervert!
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Posted 12/2/12

theYchromosome wrote:

If you consume enough fiction, you'll see that there is really very little (I have never seen any, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist) that is truly original. The fact that you expect anything original from any fictional medium (anime in particular) shows that you really haven't seen all that much of it. You think School Days is original? You might be right that it's a first in anime (I'd argue that homicidal jealous females are nothing new, but whatever), but I've read books from hundreds of years ago that depict similar situations. Evangelion? Madoka? Ergo Proxy? Serial Experiments Lain? All of these shows are compilations of existing ideas. No new information was presented, excepting nomenclature. This in particular surprised me:


DomoKevin wrote:
an otaku who is only interested in playing games and didn't like real women. That's new.


No, it's not. In fact, I feel like I've even seen this stereotype parodied in a couple of shows. But that doesn't make it bad. The lifeblood of an anime (or really any medium) is connecting the minds of the audience with the events of the show. You can't do that unless the audience understands the events of the show to begin with. This is why kids are sometimes confused with "adult material" (I don't mean porn here, although that applies too). They have no existing ideas with which they can make sense of the ideas that are being shown to them. Even with adults, when you learn something new, you use ideas that are already known to you to piece together the new information until it makes sense. All in all, if you watch enough anime, you will start to find that nothing is really surprising. I can honestly say that I haven't been surprised at a show in years. The closest I ever come is "oh, so they went that way with it." If you read enough books, this will become even more apparent.

To apply this to your post, I will say that, yes, it is boring to watch the same thing over and over again, and harems do that a lot -- so do Shounens, and romances, and psychological thrillers, and heart-breakers. Your fault is that your complaints against harems apply to all of anime, and really to all of fiction. Harems are just a subset. I understand your complaints, but you will (hopefully) soon find that there can be nothing really surprising about a show, although there is nothing wrong with a show being fascinating or enjoyable. The beauty of fiction is not that it presents something new to you, but that it reminds you of of things that are familiar to you -- things that you value. That said, of all the anime genres in existence, harems are the least likely to make me want to watch a second time. I enjoy a good deal of them every season, and I have a good time while watching, but I almost never get the feeling that it's anything special. I think the only harem I own is Bakemonogatari, which is incredible and one of my favorites. So to be fair, I do understand your sentiment, but suggest that you stop making your judgements of shows based on originality -- you'll get bored pretty quickly.


True. I really should really stop being picky about anime. Bakemonogatari is an anime I'm currently watching right now. One of the most interesting and unique anime I've seen. Gonna be watching episode 7 soon.

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Posted 12/2/12 , edited 12/2/12

DomoKevin wrote:



True. I really should really stop being picky about anime. Bakemonogatari is an anime I'm currently watching right now. One of the most interesting and unique anime I've seen. Gonna be watching episode 7 soon.



Nothing wrong with being picky about your entertainment. Just apply your criteria evenly, and it's all good as far as I'm concerned. Although, if you're watching Bakemonogatari, then you're clearly looking past all the typical harem tropes anyway, so I can't complain. Still, that show is a bit of a rarity; all the bad harems I've seen just make that one seem all the sweeter. My epiphany of the day -- "shitty shows exist to make good ones seem better." Damn it, I just realized I might be an elitist.
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