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Obama wants you to take your guns before he implodes the economy.
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28 / M / Alaska
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Posted 12/22/12 , edited 12/22/12

Tethler wrote:


micdeath wrote:

I get my info straight from the actual source. Not from a MEDIA OUTLET.

http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA%7Dfacts11.pdf
What is the AIC? Why it is the Australian Institute of Criminology of course.

I have a questions JUST for you. Why did you only focus on homicides as your example?
Do you auto-equate gun violence to murders?




factcheck.org uses reliable sources and summarizes the data from those sources (one of the sources listed was the AIC). It isn't opinion based.

I focused on homicides because this is a debate on gun control. Sure, I suppose gun related assaults might be relevant to the discussion. However, when you lump all crime together and say it went up after a gun ban went into place it's misleading. White collar crime might have very little to do with guns. For example, a rise in identity theft probably has no correlation to a gun ban. Now if you can show me that gun related crimes went up after the gun ban went into place then you've got a good point.

According to the link you provided:

Homicides are down
Assaults are up (they don't list if a weapon was involved)
Sexual assault is up
Robbery is down
Vehicle theft is down
Fraud is down
Drug arrests look about the same

These are also raw numbers taken over a 14 year period and don't take into account population growth. The actual crime rate probably differs from the raw numbers a bit.


Let me clue you in. If you use factcheck.org as a source, it is equivalent to Wikipedia. Both do cite sources. Both also will make your credibility go down the toilet.

I focused on homicides because this is a debate on gun control.
Means you auto-equate guns to to murder. You have to stop this in order to start seeing more cause and effects.

For example, you say that many of those crimes are down. When in fact they have spiked, and remained high after the ban.
This is due to what is known as criminal empowerment.
Using the numbers from 1996 as our control, we can compare the rest with it.

Homicides are down yes, though to say that is from from the gun ban is idiotic. As the homicide rate was already on a downward trend prior to the gun ban.
Assault rates are on an upward trend, which is to be expected after the gun ban.
Sexual assault is up, also to be expected. Criminals feel safer to do these, so they do.
Robbery was on a serious large upward trend for 5 years, and only has recently gone under the control data.
Kidnapping and abduction is on a very high rate.

Property crimes are doing great , but for 5 years after the gun ban, it was on an upward trend.


I applaud the Aussies on this feat. Keep it up.

Now for the fraud, this is a red herring you threw out, since it is based on deceit, not by force.
For your white-collar comment, that is why it is called white-collar crime. No clue where you were trying to go with that.

I really do want you to take a view of this with an unbiased view. You are missing out, or rather ignoring data that does not support your view.
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34 / M / Oregon
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Posted 12/22/12

micdeath wrote:


Let me clue you in. If you use factcheck.org as a source, it is equivalent to Wikipedia.


They are not equivalent. Anyone can put whatever they want on wikipedia, not so for factcheck.org


micdeath wrote:

Assault rates are on an upward trend, which is to be expected after the gun ban.


Based on what? Your opinion or do you have a source that indicates that there is a correlation?


micdeath wrote:Sexual assault is up, also to be expected. Criminals feel safer to do these, so they do.


Same question.


micdeath wrote:

Now for the fraud, this is a red herring you threw out, since it is based on deceit, not by force.
For your white-collar comment, that is why it is called white-collar crime. No clue where you were trying to go with that.



My point about the white collar crime is that you were including all crime when you mentioned an upward trend after the gun ban. Crime that didn't involve guns during this period and was unaffected by the ban will skew the numbers if there was a spike in this type of crime.
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M / Nowheresville, MI
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Posted 12/22/12
The Gov't can't take your guns if they don't know you have them.....
http://youtu.be/30i_6awxEG4
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28 / M / Alaska
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Posted 12/22/12 , edited 12/23/12
I gave my base, which was called criminal empowerment. A widely known fact. It has historical bases, control and test group backing, and so on. Want a modern day example? For the extreme end Somalia. For a wide scale example, China.

My statement still holds.
"It is shown EVERYWHERE, the more restrictive laws against the citizens, the higher the crime rate"
Also, you are starting to give a strawman argument, might want to correct that.

[edit]Forgot to add, factcheck.org is similar to Wikipedia. Not in the way information is contributed, but in the way it is presented, as well as how it is perceived by those take citations seriously. Oh like I don't know, academia, criminal investigation professors, and the like.
One simple reason. Both sites give third hand information.
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31 / M / Las Vegas
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Posted 12/23/12
Alex Jones is a sensationalist... His "proof" is BS... Hes saying that the fact that walmart and sporting goods stores all over America are taking guns off their shelves is proof that a gun ban is coming. Walmart pulled the BUSHMASTER rifle off their shelves. They still sell other rifles. This is just to keep bad publicity away. Its a business move, not a ban. Ive seen some websites that I buy ammo and accessories off of stop selling guns completely and others have just stopped selling the Bushmaster AR. To say that all this is due to an impending gun ban is idiotic. Alex Jones knows what hes doing. Hes just trying to get attention, as usual.

Funny thing about all this... I was in a gun shop on friday and I saw hordes of people in there buying ARs, pistols, shotguns, hell, even suppressors and the only thing that went through my mind was "These people are going to be so pissed when they see how cheap all these guns are next winter."
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Posted 12/23/12

micdeath wrote:

My statement still holds.
"It is shown EVERYWHERE, the more restrictive laws against the citizens, the higher the crime rate"


It hardly needs to be shown; it's practically a tautology. If 100% of the things people do are illegal, then the crime rate will be 100%. If 0% of the things people do are illegal, the crime rate will be 0%.
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28 / M / Alaska
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Posted 12/23/12 , edited 12/23/12

staphen wrote:


micdeath wrote:

My statement still holds.
"It is shown EVERYWHERE, the more restrictive laws against the citizens, the higher the crime rate"


It hardly needs to be shown; it's practically a tautology. If 100% of the things people do are illegal, then the crime rate will be 100%. If 0% of the things people do are illegal, the crime rate will be 0%.


It would seem that way.
There is a reason I gave Somalia as an example. Crime rate there is very high. Even though there is no laws.
How does that work you ask? In an absence of an established government, social rules and expectations establish the what is right and what is wrong.
Take the pirating. Under their social law, it was legal and in their right to do. As the waters was theirs, and boats were trespassing. In some cases were illegally dumping stuff in their waters.
What everybody saw was them hi-jacking and holding hostages for ransom.
What could be seen: They arrested offenders, set bail, and had a system where if bail was met, the offenders would be pardoned.
One side is illegal, the other side is are totally legal proceedings that other countries do. Both are the very same actions.

It isn't black and white anymore, it is a shade of grey.
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25 / M / Guess
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Posted 12/23/12 , edited 12/23/12
Oh no! They's N*gger be plannin' ter take mah gun!

Nobuddy's gettin' any where near mah gun.



Implication: If you're complaining about laws that makes it more difficult for people with the intelligence of a gadfly and with less sanity than that to be had in a Madhouse, you are obviously a redneck. And since you are a redneck, you're probably racist.
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36 / M / The Void.
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Posted 12/24/12 , edited 12/24/12
Arrest Piers Morgan for foreign subversion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Zt1AvYiPq6w

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37 / M / USA
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Posted 12/24/12 , edited 12/24/12

Lexxuk wrote:

I'm not sure Obama can become a dictator, the judiciary would not allow it. A dictator has absolute power, he makes laws and those laws are unchallenged, in the US you can challenge laws through the judiciary which you believe are illegal, or unlawful. If the judiciary agrees with you that the laws being brought in are unlawful then they can reject them, Obama would need to control the judicial process before he could break it, but get this, he can't, it's a basic tenement of a democracy (though the US isn't a democracy but that's another debate) is that the state and the judiciary are separate, usually kept on 3 levels (state, executive, legislative) which is designed in such a way to prevent any one level having too much power (the state cannot control the executive or legislative etc.)

As for gun laws, what is the point in owning a gun? "oh, criminals own guns so we should do too" is the cry of the pathetic. I live in the UK which has pretty strict gun controls (not as strict as Japan though) and our gun crime is pretty low. But lets do some nice statistics.

In England and Wales in there were 41 murders from firearms (total). In Japan there were 11, puts the total population of these two countries at around 200m. Now lets look at the US. 9,146. If there were no firearm related murders in the US and Japan and the UK continued at their current rate, it would take 156 years for their combined rate to equal the US's tally.

In other words, more people die in a year in the US due to firearm related murder than die in Japan in 831 years (or 223 years in the UK). In the 831 years it takes for Japan to catch up to the US's figure, 7.6 MILLION Americans would have died, not a nice figure when you think about it like that, is it?


The reason there are so many murders in the U.S. is not because of the guns, its because of the PEOPLE. I used to live in Chicago (the murder capital of the U.S.) , It is infested with corrupt gang scum whose only hope for reform would be the reinstatement of corporal punishment. If the gangs couldn't get guns made legally they would get guns made on the black market. The drug business is highly lucrative and weapons to protect pedaling territory and enforce contracts are a necessity for business.

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36 / M / The Void.
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Posted 12/24/12

longfenglim wrote:

Oh no! They's N*gger be plannin' ter take mah gun!

Nobuddy's gettin' any where near mah gun.



Implication: If you're complaining about laws that makes it more difficult for people with the intelligence of a gadfly and with less sanity than that to be had in a Madhouse, you are obviously a redneck. And since you are a redneck, you're probably racist.


Did you even watch the videos? I'm not being racist, man. I'm just putting facts out there. Do you even know why we have the right to bare arms? Man, I think you are going to be one of the first that's going to be put in the death camps.

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25 / M / Guess
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Posted 12/24/12

-Vega- wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Oh no! They's N*gger be plannin' ter take mah gun!

Nobuddy's gettin' any where near mah gun.



Implication: If you're complaining about laws that makes it more difficult for people with the intelligence of a gadfly and with less sanity than that to be had in a Madhouse, you are obviously a redneck. And since you are a redneck, you're probably racist.


Did you even watch the videos? I'm not being racist, man. I'm just putting facts out there. Do you even know why we have the right to bare arms? Man, I think you are going to be one of the first that's going to be put in the death camps.




Let me guess- you also 'have black friends' and you just hate Obama not because of his race, but because he's 'tryin' to take mah gun'. When some calls tighter gun control 'stealing mah gun and trying to put me in Concentration camps', they forfeit the right to be taken seriously, and makes us wonder how he is psychologically fit enough to own a gun in the first place- of course, now that there are, in fact, tighter gun control laws, we can make sure that no more nutters will be able to get their hands on firearms.
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36 / M / The Void.
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Posted 12/24/12 , edited 12/24/12

longfenglim wrote:


-Vega- wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Oh no! They's N*gger be plannin' ter take mah gun!

Nobuddy's gettin' any where near mah gun.



Implication: If you're complaining about laws that makes it more difficult for people with the intelligence of a gadfly and with less sanity than that to be had in a Madhouse, you are obviously a redneck. And since you are a redneck, you're probably racist.


Did you even watch the videos? I'm not being racist, man. I'm just putting facts out there. Do you even know why we have the right to bare arms? Man, I think you are going to be one of the first that's going to be put in the death camps.




Let me guess- you also 'have black friends' and you just hate Obama not because of his race, but because he's 'tryin' to take mah gun'. When some calls tighter gun control 'stealing mah gun and trying to put me in Concentration camps', they forfeit the right to be taken seriously, and makes us wonder how he is psychologically fit enough to own a gun in the first place- of course, now that there are, in fact, tighter gun control laws, we can make sure that no more nutters will be able to get their hands on firearms.


I don't even have a gun and I don't have any black friends as of now. Also, I am not a redneck/white person, I am Asian. Man, you are making so many assumptions about me. None of those assumptions are true. You use straw man tactics to argue, why? You have got to be the most willfully ignorant person I have ever come across. You are just like religious fanatics/zealots when it comes to you own belief system. I am almost sure that you have not watched any of my videos/evidence.

I think you are simply insane Ling Ling Fox. The worst form of insanity is the type where the person does not know they are insane. There is so much evidence out there to prove every single claim I make, just look for it.

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28 / M / Lake Elsinore, CA
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Posted 12/24/12
Thankfully I don't need to buy any, if shit ever really does go down I'll just to my Grandad's house and claim the M1 Garand he says is for me.

Also he's got shotguns, and rifles too!

I'm ready for the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!!!

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54 / M / East Coast
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Posted 12/24/12
There has been a bunch of smaller shootings since Newtown the Church shhoting in PA where State troopers got shot at and wounded,In Buffalo NY two fireman killed when they entered the house.I beleive in the right to own guns but do we need assault rifles and high capacity magazines.And here's another thing we get screened for our drivers license regulary why not gun ownership too.A persons medocal records are confidenatal but it should be linked to mental conditions.Hell they put through the ringer if your finances go bad that could be a factor too.I think generally a lot of people are annoyed with the way the world is.But do we go shhot the place no!!I think checks are necessary for gun ownership.How about this since drug trade is a big cause of gun violence make drugs legal.That would get rid of the gang violence.You know what too many guns weapons in the world anyhow except for close friends everybody is me me me. NEVER THiNK ABOUT YOUR ACTIONS.The govvertments,terroists,corporations,the right the left humanity itself is stupid greedy and uncaring in everyday life except when it is to their way of thinking.WE can kill but not fight hunger,poverty,illness etc.I am sorry I went on a rant wake up people the world is full of BS not just guns.
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