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Do we die every night?
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Posted 4/7/13

Hairbelly wrote:


Do we die every night?


No.


If you completely reboot your brain, will you still be "you"?


Of course you will still be you.

The "you" in you is highly dependent upon the physical structure of your brain and said DNA structures ... your self-aware metaphysical you uses the physical structure of your brain as a map of you. If you digitally mapped your consciousness, removed it from your current body, and placed it in another body/head, your consciousness would collapse. Even if your consciousness was accepted by the new body, you wouldn't be you. It must be an exact copy of your old physical brain.

Thus the reason there is no such thing as a soul, and why Heaven/Hell is completely impossible. Your metaphysical you, or soul or consciousness, can not survive without your physical brain. Once the brain dies, so does your metaphysical "soul" as it no longer has a working structure to bind itself to.

So, if it was possible to "re-boot" yourself every night, as long as you had the same physical brain, you would be you.



wut about passin all data inside the brain to another structure, through specific ways~also grey matter and etc?
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Posted 4/7/13

xD hehe~ brain dies in 1 min without blood no? same for the heart no?
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Posted 4/7/13

Hairbelly wrote:
Thus the reason there is no such thing as a soul, and why Heaven/Hell is completely impossible. Your metaphysical you, or soul or consciousness, can not survive without your physical brain. Once the brain dies, so does your metaphysical "soul" as it no longer has a working structure to bind itself to.


Although I really shouldn't quote and respond to old posts, I wanted to point something out. Many religious figures have suggested for a very long time that once you are in heaven or hell, you may not have memories. You may not be the same as you were on earth. This theory aligns perfectly with what you have said.

Also, if one were to accept the existence of an all powerful creator of the world, it would be easy to believe that said creator could copy your brain into some other form that was still usable.
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Posted 4/7/13

PatrickAupperleUtexas wrote:


Hairbelly wrote:
Thus the reason there is no such thing as a soul, and why Heaven/Hell is completely impossible. Your metaphysical you, or soul or consciousness, can not survive without your physical brain. Once the brain dies, so does your metaphysical "soul" as it no longer has a working structure to bind itself to.


Although I really shouldn't quote and respond to old posts, I wanted to point something out. Many religious figures have suggested for a very long time that once you are in heaven or hell, you may not have memories. You may not be the same as you were on earth. This theory aligns perfectly with what you have said.
No, because the religous type of philisophical standpoint is not really compatible with the scientific, metaphysical argument. Logic dictates a certain explanation and religion dictates something can be just so because an all powerful creator is not bound by physical laws that science requires us to be. You could say it's a downside of science but why would humans have knowledge of God's miracles since it's likely impossible for humans to have knowledge of them? In other words humans create these explanations that defy science and say that they are the works of God when we have no way of knowing that God actually did that or if there is a God at all to do them.

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Posted 4/7/13

JustineKo2 wrote:


PatrickAupperleUtexas wrote:


Hairbelly wrote:
Thus the reason there is no such thing as a soul, and why Heaven/Hell is completely impossible. Your metaphysical you, or soul or consciousness, can not survive without your physical brain. Once the brain dies, so does your metaphysical "soul" as it no longer has a working structure to bind itself to.


Although I really shouldn't quote and respond to old posts, I wanted to point something out. Many religious figures have suggested for a very long time that once you are in heaven or hell, you may not have memories. You may not be the same as you were on earth. This theory aligns perfectly with what you have said.
No, because the religous type of philisophical standpoint is not really compatible with the scientific, metaphysical argument. Logic dictates a certain explanation and religion dictates something can be just so because an all powerful creator is not bound by physical laws that science requires us to be. You could say it's a downside of science but why would humans have knowledge of God's miracles since it's likely impossible for humans to have knowledge of them? In other words humans create these explanations that defy science and say that they are the works of God when we have no way of knowing that God actually did that or if there is a God at all to do them.



This is a silly argument. If you look at things from a religious standpoint, God designed the physical world and all of these laws. As a programmer, I try to write code with as few special cases as possible. If I could design a system where I never had to add special code to intervene in a strange case, that would be wonderful. If we assume God created man in his image, we can assume that he would also prefer his system to work with as little intervention as possible. This therefore allows scientific explanations for many things. Although there are certainly a few cases where specialization has advantages, sometimes those advantages aren't worth the cost. I'm really not sure how God would design dying, but to suggest that a religious person should entirely ignore science is ludicrous. Science is very clearly valid in many circumstances. Science and religion do not oppose each other. They complete each other.
Posted 4/7/13



What is with the Angelic Layer picture lol?
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Posted 4/7/13
By OP's logic of the brain "shutting off" -- that never occurs, so no, we don't die every night.

By an alternative logic, physical makeup of the body is never identical, say, second to second. Take brain states alone -- the brain has different neurons active at different times. Skin cells are replacing themselves, blood cells are distributed differently, etc. So you're a "different person" every second -- you just have a lot in common with the dude that existed a couple of seconds ago. So "you" die a lot, and by inclusion, every night.

By yet another alternative logic, you are the same person insofar as you share characteristics with "someone else." So I am the same person as I was a second ago insofar as I have, say, the same views on economics. I am also the same thing as every other human insofar as I have, say, skin. I am also the same thing as a carbon, because we share "having carbon." By this logic, I never die, because I always share characteristics with things that are (practically speaking) eternal.

Take your pick.
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Posted 4/7/13
No.

Well if it's true then we're all zombies.
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Posted 4/7/13
Even if our brain did temporarily stop for a millisecond, if all the basic processes started up again directly afterwards then our hearts would not stop. I don't think we would actually die. I also see no reason why i would not be the same as i was before the reboot. I would have all the same memories and know my reactions to the different things that happened in those memories. All those would shape what i would think is my life and i would have no reason to believe the me in those memories is not the me that woke up so i would adopt the personality in those memories and once again become "me." The only way to be a different "me" would be if i spent time in the would without any memories or with different memories. If i had no memories i might respond to every day situations differently and those different responses would become normal; therefore, making a different person with the same name. If i had different memories for some reason, then i would be different in some way and be a new "me." If neither of those things happen, i believe i would still be "me."
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Posted 4/7/13 , edited 4/7/13

PatrickAupperleUtexas wrote:This is a silly argument. If you look at things from a religious standpoint, God designed the physical world and all of these laws. As a programmer, I try to write code with as few special cases as possible. If I could design a system where I never had to add special code to intervene in a strange case, that would be wonderful. If we assume God created man in his image, we can assume that he would also prefer his system to work with as little intervention as possible. This therefore allows scientific explanations for many things. Although there are certainly a few cases where specialization has advantages, sometimes those advantages aren't worth the cost. I'm really not sure how God would design dying, but to suggest that a religious person should entirely ignore science is ludicrous. Science is very clearly valid in many circumstances. Science and religion do not oppose each other. They complete each other.
Religion and science only complete each other in the sense that for example when using science to explain how water can be turned to wine. If I take a glass of water and mix it with a glass of wine, have I turned water into wine? From a religious point of view yes. Religion will use any means, or excuse, necessary to prove that many of the miracles are actually supported through science, thus explainable thus legitimizing as many of the bogus claims in the Bible as possible.

This is not science at all. You don't modify your observations or test and test and test until you get the result you want and disregard all the failures. Science and religion do not complement each other, EVER. But you have a right to disagree and that's all that's going to happen here if this discussion continues so end of discussion. Back to the topic.

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Posted 4/7/13
Nice thread. Is there a difference between "death" and "lack of consciousness" ?

If we accept the body is just a physical machine... then any biological damage can be repaired post-death (say we cryogenically freeze the body... unfreeze it when we have the technology to repair it)

So during the time between his death and revival... there's no consciousness... isn't this just sleep?
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Posted 4/7/13

JustineKo2 wrote:


PatrickAupperleUtexas wrote:This is a silly argument. If you look at things from a religious standpoint, God designed the physical world and all of these laws. As a programmer, I try to write code with as few special cases as possible. If I could design a system where I never had to add special code to intervene in a strange case, that would be wonderful. If we assume God created man in his image, we can assume that he would also prefer his system to work with as little intervention as possible. This therefore allows scientific explanations for many things. Although there are certainly a few cases where specialization has advantages, sometimes those advantages aren't worth the cost. I'm really not sure how God would design dying, but to suggest that a religious person should entirely ignore science is ludicrous. Science is very clearly valid in many circumstances. Science and religion do not oppose each other. They complete each other.
Religion and science only complete each other in the sense that for example when using science to explain how water can be turned to wine. If I take a glass of water and mix it with a glass of wine, have I turned water into wine? From a religious point of view yes. Religion will use any means, or excuse, necessary to prove that many of the miracles are actually supported through science, thus explainable thus legitimizing as many of the bogus claims in the Bible as possible.

This is not science at all. You don't modify your observations or test and test and test until you get the result you want and disregard all the failures. Science and religion do not complement each other, EVER. But you have a right to disagree and that's all that's going to happen here if this discussion continues so end of discussion. Back to the topic.



I believe you've misunderstood me. I never said everything was explainable by science. I would never suggest that the water-wine miracle is scientifically explainable. That is one of the special cases I was describing. God decided it was worth the time and effort to step in and do something personally.

You are right. we are going to disagree, because you are too closed minded to see that the two systems fit together nicely. God created a beautifully logical world for us to enjoy and explore. Science can learn so much about the world and is a fascinating study. Religion steps in to explain what science can't. The two work together in perfect harmony the vast majority of the time.
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Posted 4/7/13
I can see someone has definitely ran out of topics to post about...NO you don't die cause even during sleep the brain is still active though at a minimal level.

Nice shot at trying to coax thought but nahhhhh!
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Posted 4/7/13
Only if little deaths count.
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Posted 4/7/13
Except our brain is quite active during sleep, so that doesn't really hold water. However, if one's brain does shut down, they are technically speaking defined as dead, although they can be revived. So would we really consider that death is the question. It's hard to say, as while we're hesitant to say someone was "brought back from the dead", if we don't say that the question comes up, what do you define the person if he's not revived? It's a bit ridiculous to say that a person's dead or not dead depending on a later outcome, so I'd say you'd have to be considered dead.

However, as for if you'd be a different person, I'd say absolutely not. Does a computer become a different computer when it reboots itself? Of course not. I'd say one simply has to accept that it is possible for a person to come back from the dead, though with current technology our ability to do so is very limited.
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