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Is Btooom that generic?
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Posted 1/5/13
i liked it too, cheers
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Shrapnel893 wrote:

Battle Royale is the same type of genre... although it's a novel, live-action movie, and manga and has no anime adaptation. I wouldn't use the word generic to describe anime now-a-days only because then practically everything would be considered generic. To create something you borrow from something else.


Battle Royale has a manga, live action movies, and a lot of fans. I wish they WOULD make it into a good 12-20 episode series. Though I would be a little worried about the quality.
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Posted 1/5/13

leolachante wrote:


Shrapnel893 wrote:

Battle Royale is the same type of genre... although it's a novel, live-action movie, and manga and has no anime adaptation. I wouldn't use the word generic to describe anime now-a-days only because then practically everything would be considered generic. To create something you borrow from something else.


Battle Royale has a manga, live action movies, and a lot of fans. I wish they WOULD make it into a good 12-20 episode series. Though I would be a little worried about the quality.


I'd think they'd do it justice. The manga did and I'm pretty sure the studio doing the anime would too.
Posted 1/5/13 , edited 1/5/13

DragonstarX wrote:

Personally, I think that Btoom! tried to get the same market that Accel World and SAO brought.

The only problem is that it's not as well written as the other two series. This is not me praising AW and SAO, but stating the fact that both anime series at least had a decent plotline/concept it followed. Btoom! tried to do the same.

Sorry, but when an anime deliberatly tries to be like another anime in hopes of getting its market, I call it Generic.


I don't think Btoom tries to be like SAO or Accel world, but it probably did try to grab some of the same market. Due to the fact that it's a lot grittier than SAO or Accel World, they would have to assume that being in the same market wouldn't be possible, but gaining some of the same market would be.

While Btooom does involve a game, it takes place in the real world with reference to the virtual one while SAO and Accel World taking much place in virtual worlds, with some live events inbetween to provide connectivity between some of those in virtual ones. If anything, Btooom is closer in similarity to Deadman Wonderland. The only thing that really makes Btoom, Accel World, and SAO similar is there is a game in them. If you took out the virtual game in Btooom and gave a different reason for the situation they're in, it wouldn't be compared to SAO or Accel World.

If you strip them down as they are, they're all somewhat pretty generic clones of each other, right?

Then the only problem really IS the writing, but you have to understand that plots are not going to unfold at the same pace or same way. This can make writing seem weak,

But regardless of what it may or may not actually be, being generic doesn't make it wrong to watch by any means. Quality of ones entertainment isn't decided on collective terms or we'd all watch, like, and hate the same stuff.

That's the major reason I stopped caring about reviews on media products.






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Generic is just people's lazy way of saying they have seen something similar to it and therefore it isn't that good, or interesting, or etc. Don't take other people's opinions too deeply though because almost everyone thinks that they have 'good' tastes; there is no universal 'this is better than that and if you don't think so you are retarded/have terrible tastes' but many people believe that. Just enjoy what you enjoy and watch what you think is good because you are the one that decides whether something is good for you or not.

...but seriously it makes me so frustrated with people when they talk like their tastes are decreed as being better than someone else's.
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Posted 1/6/13 , edited 1/6/13

AZFox wrote:
But regardless of what it may or may not actually be, being generic doesn't make it wrong to watch by any means. Quality of ones entertainment isn't decided on collective terms or we'd all watch, like, and hate the same stuff.

That's the major reason I stopped caring about reviews on media products.


deli8079 wrote:

Generic is just people's lazy way of saying they have seen something similar to it and therefore it isn't that good, or interesting, or etc. Don't take other people's opinions too deeply though because almost everyone thinks that they have 'good' tastes; there is no universal 'this is better than that and if you don't think so you are retarded/have terrible tastes' but many people believe that. Just enjoy what you enjoy and watch what you think is good because you are the one that decides whether something is good for you or not.

...but seriously it makes me so frustrated with people when they talk like their tastes are decreed as being better than someone else's.


Exactly my feelings on everything, not just anime. Tastes and preferences are unique to each individual. There is no such thing as better tastes. Those who think so just have the "I'm better than you because I prefer such and such" mentality. Nothing more than ego trips and arrogance. I've probably watch more anime than most people (an anime fan for about 15 years) but that doesn't make me an expert on what is good or what is bad. Same goes for everyone else.

What i consider great, others may think it's bad. And vice versa. I like what I like. And that's all that matters.
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The show was not bad and not that generic that you would scream in vain.
I would watch the second season.
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Posted 1/6/13 , edited 1/6/13

Waterst1 wrote:

I do understand the differences between nit-picking and criticizing very well, thank you very much. Apparently it's you who doesn't really understand the concept and does a lot of assuming. That seems to be your general trend of debate, not just with myself but with others as well: Assume and Generalize

So, let me explain to you what the differences are. When someone criticizes, it will be general in nature. Example: "the characters in the series are too 1-dimensional; absolute good or absolute evil". Nit-picking is when you focus on 1 small detail in an episode of a series to criticize and generalize. And then, to search through every single flaws of the series just to show how bad it is. That is nit-picking, It has gone beyond simple criticizing.

That was a rhetorical statement. And yes, I can certainly tear it apart if I could be bothered to put some effort into it. I just had to chuckle when you actually named a series. And if you so desired, you know you'll be able to find faults with virtually any series as well.

Anyone who has had... overexposure? to good anime would probably consider it over-hyped and mediocre, at best." Again with the assumptions and generalization. Yeah, right. If anyone like that series, they must have poor taste and/or haven't had "overexposure" to good anime. Please stop assuming that your tastes or preferences are better than someone else, or someone has seen less good series than you have. It's just plain stupid. Everyone is different. Just because someone like something you don't, it doesn't mean you have better taste.

To claim otherwise is just being delusional and/or being too full of oneself.


"When someone criticizes, it will be general in nature. Example: "the characters in the series are too 1-dimensional; absolute good or absolute evil". Nit-picking is when you focus on 1 small detail in an episode of a series to criticize and generalize. And then, to search through every single flaws of the series just to show how bad it is. That is nit-picking, It has gone beyond simple criticizing."
You're saying criticizing specifically is nitpicking? Clearly, you don't understand the difference, or the meaning of criticizing at that. I'll try to make this as simple as possible for the laymans. I'll begin with definitions. Nitpicking is to find trivial, insignificant, unimportant faults to criticize unnecessarily. Criticizing is to state the faults of something, Hint: key words = bold. Furthermore, criticizing isn't limited to ''being general in nature'', just because a critique is specific doesn't make it subjective. I don't know where you got that misconception. Objective faults that detract from the subject can be used as criticism. Searching for faults, insignificant as they may be, as justification to criticize is nitpicking. If all these are words are confusing you, how about this; criticism will be objective, nitpicking will be subjective and insignificant. Understand? If you can't, you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

"That was a rhetorical statement. And yes, I can certainly tear it apart if I could be bothered to put some effort into it. I just had to chuckle when you actually named a series. And if you so desired, you know you'll be able to find faults with virtually any series as well."No shit. I was hoping a cheap taunt would prove just how stupid you are. I also named a series that is ''good'' to set as a standard. I wasn't saying that it was without fault. It's true that anyone can find fault in anything. But they'll usually just be nitpicking.

"Anyone who has had... overexposure? to good anime would probably consider it over-hyped and mediocre, at best." Again with the assumptions and generalization. Yeah, right. If anyone like that series, they must have poor taste and/or haven't had "overexposure" to good anime. Please stop assuming that your tastes or preferences are better than someone else, or someone has seen less good series than you have. It's just plain stupid. Everyone is different. Just because someone like something you don't, it doesn't mean you have better taste.

To claim otherwise is just being delusional and/or being too full of oneself."


I'm being delusional and/or being too full of myself? Maybe from my first statement, but I admitted it was cursory. I also admit that you are right in the fact that people have different tastes and appeal is subjective, but I wasn't claiming otherwise. I never said that if people LIKE the show, than they have bad taste or haven't had enough exposure to good anime. Only if they CONSIDERED it good. You don't have to consider something good to like it, I like and enjoy a lot of shows that I don't think are good. You just failed to grasp the concept of what good actually means and started making assumptions. Let me explain:

for a show to be good, it has to be very entertaining, BUT also noteworthy in comparison. It has to be exceptional. A lot of popular shows are very entertaining but that doesn't make them exceptional. Comparison is key, how can shit be exceptional when you compare it to shit? Here's a popular show that is actually good, Hunter x Hunter (2011). It's sad that this show doesn't get as much attention as it deserves. It pains me that all the attention is getting stolen by these scandalous big titles (SAO) who would sacrifice substance just to attract a sector in the anime demographic
(This is what I explained to another user) The reason I said overexposure is because the people who consider it good probably haven't seen enough good anime to see the apparent faults in SAO, they're either completely oblivious or ignore it. SAO has serious issues. They are apparent. They are objective. They are detractors. Calling such critique as nitpicks is likely an attempt to disparage such critique through rhetoric rather than argumentation.
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swordstyle wrote:

1) I didn't "readily accept" anything. I simply understood what the author was showing me. There is no deeper thought required. You attempted to make something from nothing and assign a deep intricacy where there simply isn't one. Which is why I didn't understand your use of the word. I thought you were at least intelligent enough to grasp the obvious, apparently I was wrong. You mad because I gave a catchall description when all I did was describe the vast majority of anime I've seen. It's not my fault if your beloved met all the criteria to a tee. You know what series does not meet that criteria? SAO. For a catchall description, it sure did a bad job of catching all.....

2) lol Umm....yeah just because I used the word "female" you thought I was accusing you of including males in your statement? Wow kid, you have some insecurity issues. You should probably see someone about that. As far as my statement being vague, it wasn't. It was in fact quite specific. Let me be specific once again. No, not every GIRL could be considered a tsundere since not every GIRL is mean and hostile at the start of a series. Do you not watch anime? How could you not know that? I guess that goes back to my earlier statement about your inability to grasp the obvious.

3) He knows how to operate it effectively, huh?


but anyone who is any good at COD has to play strategically (not camp)


Taira spawn camping is obviously not the same as being able to defend himself from an attacker. As far your COD statement, you refuted that yourself. And then went on to ask that I pretend the game is from the future. LOL. Wow, I'm just gonna leave that alone. The creators of this series made Ryota the 10th ranked player in the world specifically to be his weapon, his advantage. What you think other people would do is irrelevant. Ryota believes he is in a game that he knows everything about. So even though he isn't the manliest guy in the world, he still fights and wins when backed in to a corner. That's what makes the show interesting.

4) Ah, I forgot I said that a week ago to that other kid. So I guess you got me there. But my point still stands. I do think SAO is a better show. That's my opinion. And the ratings are a testament to how many people agree with me. That's not to say your opinion is incorrect, just that you are in the minority. That's a fact. The numbers don't lie. High ratings don't mean I will like a series, but it's undeniable proof that many other people do. You keep saying that a show can be entertaining, but not good. And I keep saying that "good" is subjective. You complain about how I repeat myself. But obviously, why would I need to repeat myself if you were able to grasp these simple concepts?

And yeah, only children bicker over opinions. You are a child. Stomping your feet and holding your breath when you don't get your way. The entire point of all this for me was to make you understand that your opinions are not facts. But I see now that I might as well be explaining quantum physics to a cat. There is no point in explaining things to someone without the mental capacity to grasp them. So I'm done here. Go ahead and have your last word, child. I'll be the adult here and let you have it.


1) So you still try to place blame on me for your simple mindedness and stubbornness. To you it may seem that deeper thought is required (as if you're capable of deeper thought), but to me, it's apparent. Catch all statements are supposed to be extremely vague, so what do you mean ''met all the criteria to a tee''... no-derr. As far as the catch all description not applying to SAO is irrelevant. SAO is of such poor quality that anyone who believes they understand anything of substance in that anime is delusional. Seeing as how your so proud of Kirito x Asuna relationship, here's why the writers decided to ''openly show intimacy'':

... it wanted to pander to the audience sexual desires.


2) Now you accuse me of having insecurity issues? Lol, wow. You should've realized that that would have been my obvious response, since everything else you wrote has no substance, and mostly repeated, to refute my claim. As I said before, you're copy/paste. Everything you've said in you're here is the same as in your every other one of you're posts. You don't give any inclination as to how it's specific. Is it specific because you said, at first or at the start? Lol, reaaallly?? That's my only assumption. If that's true than, Himiko wouldn't be considered a tsundere because she wasn't cold or hostile at the start of the series, only after traumatic events. Furthermore, you agreed on my definition if the character is their as a love interest in which, she doesn't qualify for when she meets Sakamoto.

3) Direct connection between COD and Btooom? Lol, what? Moving on. I'll repeat, Taira used it effectively as shown in episode 12. If he was able to incapacitate and nearly kill Sakamoto, I'd say he was using it pretty damn effectively, but apparently I can't grasp the obvious. Secondly, how could you possibly know if Taira is able to defend himself from an attacker when we've never seen him ACTUALLY fight anyone.

I'm sorry, does abstraction confuse you? I was trying to prove a concept by showing the common qualities in specific examples. I was proving that veteran players, in both games, have a clear advantage due to their experience. We were in agreement, so why you are trying to prove that Sakamoto being ranked 10th in the game is relevant is beyond me. What I was saying is that just because they know they have an advantage doesn't mean they know they will win and it's the logical choice for surviving. That's what makes Ryota so interesting. Btooom clearly shows the effects that escapism in video games has on someone. It's because of this that Ryota believes he will win. Not because it is the logical choice. Not everybody with the same advantage would do the same.

4) You still say you think SAO is a better show, but give no reason. Well, your opinions account for shit. Say you liked it better, not that it IS better. And once again, you're back to copy/pasting. I grow tired of you're redundancy. Say something new, anything but plagiarizing from you're last several posts. Furthermore, you give nothing to support you're claim that ''good'' is subjective. However, I supported my claim that ''good'' isn't. I refuted you're claim yet you still believe your right. It's apparent to me that you're delusional, and you should see someone about that.


Go ahead and have your last word, child. I'll be the adult here and let you have it.

Claiming to be the adult in this situation is to claim maturity. If you were mature you wouldn't have wrote that. It's unnecessary. If you were mature, you wouldn't have even continued responding to a ''child's tantrum'' as long as you did. And here I thought you hated people who make bold claims, Lol. But why should that surprise me, seeing as how I already proved how hypocritical you are.
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i just like how this show is so hard and cruel and takes things like murder rape and betrayal and makes in something interesting to watch
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@ tehstud, Did you looked up the definitions and post them verbatim? What those NITPICKERS did is exactly what you described: " to find trivial, insignificant, unimportant faults to criticize unnecessarily".

As for the taunt? Really? I know, and I'm sure everyone knows you really expected the full treatment by your "Challenge Accepted" proclamation. Again, I just have to laugh. If I wanted to dissect HXH, it'll be in it's thread not this one.

And I never claim that SAO is great by any means. However, you repeatedly used hyperboles to describe yourself with words such as overexposure to good anime, people with good taste, etc. Those I just find very amusing. And yes, you did imply that those who liked it have bad taste. LOL. Who are you to decide that? It's not a statement of facts. It's only your personal opinion, nothing more.

I've grown tired of reading your replies. Be my guest and have the last words. And I said all I wanted to say for this particular thread. Just get off the ego train by assuming you have better tastes than others. END
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tehstud wrote:


Waterst1 wrote:

I do understand the differences between nit-picking and criticizing very well, thank you very much. Apparently it's you who doesn't really understand the concept and does a lot of assuming. That seems to be your general trend of debate, not just with myself but with others as well: Assume and Generalize

So, let me explain to you what the differences are. When someone criticizes, it will be general in nature. Example: "the characters in the series are too 1-dimensional; absolute good or absolute evil". Nit-picking is when you focus on 1 small detail in an episode of a series to criticize and generalize. And then, to search through every single flaws of the series just to show how bad it is. That is nit-picking, It has gone beyond simple criticizing.

That was a rhetorical statement. And yes, I can certainly tear it apart if I could be bothered to put some effort into it. I just had to chuckle when you actually named a series. And if you so desired, you know you'll be able to find faults with virtually any series as well.

Anyone who has had... overexposure? to good anime would probably consider it over-hyped and mediocre, at best." Again with the assumptions and generalization. Yeah, right. If anyone like that series, they must have poor taste and/or haven't had "overexposure" to good anime. Please stop assuming that your tastes or preferences are better than someone else, or someone has seen less good series than you have. It's just plain stupid. Everyone is different. Just because someone like something you don't, it doesn't mean you have better taste.

To claim otherwise is just being delusional and/or being too full of oneself.


"When someone criticizes, it will be general in nature. Example: "the characters in the series are too 1-dimensional; absolute good or absolute evil". Nit-picking is when you focus on 1 small detail in an episode of a series to criticize and generalize. And then, to search through every single flaws of the series just to show how bad it is. That is nit-picking, It has gone beyond simple criticizing."
You're saying criticizing specifically is nitpicking? Clearly, you don't understand the difference, or the meaning of criticizing at that. I'll try to make this as simple as possible for the laymans. I'll begin with definitions. Nitpicking is to find trivial, insignificant, unimportant faults to criticize unnecessarily. Criticizing is to state the faults of something, Hint: key words = bold. Furthermore, criticizing isn't limited to ''being general in nature'', just because a critique is specific doesn't make it subjective. I don't know where you got that misconception. Objective faults that detract from the subject can be used as criticism. Searching for faults, insignificant as they may be, as justification to criticize is nitpicking. If all these are words are confusing you, how about this; criticism will be objective, nitpicking will be subjective and insignificant. Understand? If you can't, you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

"That was a rhetorical statement. And yes, I can certainly tear it apart if I could be bothered to put some effort into it. I just had to chuckle when you actually named a series. And if you so desired, you know you'll be able to find faults with virtually any series as well."No shit. I was hoping a cheap taunt would prove just how stupid you are. I also named a series that is ''good'' to set as a standard. I wasn't saying that it was without fault. It's true that anyone can find fault in anything. But they'll usually just be nitpicking.

"Anyone who has had... overexposure? to good anime would probably consider it over-hyped and mediocre, at best." Again with the assumptions and generalization. Yeah, right. If anyone like that series, they must have poor taste and/or haven't had "overexposure" to good anime. Please stop assuming that your tastes or preferences are better than someone else, or someone has seen less good series than you have. It's just plain stupid. Everyone is different. Just because someone like something you don't, it doesn't mean you have better taste.

To claim otherwise is just being delusional and/or being too full of oneself."


I'm being delusional and/or being too full of myself? Maybe from my first statement, but I admitted it was cursory. I also admit that you are right in the fact that people have different tastes and appeal is subjective, but I wasn't claiming otherwise. I never said that if people LIKE the show, than they have bad taste or haven't had enough exposure to good anime. Only if they CONSIDERED it good. You don't have to consider something good to like it, I like and enjoy a lot of shows that I don't think are good. You just failed to grasp the concept of what good actually means and started making assumptions. Let me explain:

for a show to be good, it has to be very entertaining, BUT also noteworthy in comparison. It has to be exceptional. A lot of popular shows are very entertaining but that doesn't make them exceptional. Comparison is key, how can shit be exceptional when you compare it to shit? Here's a popular show that is actually good, Hunter x Hunter (2011). It's sad that this show doesn't get as much attention as it deserves. It pains me that all the attention is getting stolen by these scandalous big titles (SAO) who would sacrifice substance just to attract a sector in the anime demographic
(This is what I explained to another user) The reason I said overexposure is because the people who consider it good probably haven't seen enough good anime to see the apparent faults in SAO, they're either completely oblivious or ignore it. SAO has serious issues. They are apparent. They are objective. They are detractors. Calling such critique as nitpicks is likely an attempt to disparage such critique through rhetoric rather than argumentation.


you're completely right in all your posts man. whoever disagrees is either an idiot or delusional like you said. how they can continue to argue with you after you've proved them wrong at every instance is just stupid.




swordstyle wrote:
Go ahead and have your last word, child. I'll be the adult here and let you have it.


Claiming to be the adult in this situation is to claim maturity. If you were mature you wouldn't have wrote that. It's unnecessary. If you were mature, you wouldn't have even continued responding to a ''child's tantrum'' as long as you did. And here I thought you hated people who make bold claims, Lol. But why should that surprise me, seeing as how I already proved how hypocritical you are.


lol, owned him.


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Posted 1/7/13 , edited 1/7/13

burg408 wrote:





you're completely right in all your posts man. whoever disagrees is either an idiot or delusional like you said. how they can continue to argue with you after you've proved them wrong at every instance is just stupid.





lol, owned him.




Lol. Glad to see someone has the brains to understand. The only thing I can assume about these 2 guys is one of the following: They are too stupid to understand what I am saying. They are completely delusional. Or they aren't at a level of maturity where they can admit when they are wrong. They prefer rhetoric and repetition over argumentation. However, argumentation always prevails.

EDIT: Good thing you quoted me, or else I would have never knew this coward responded.
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Posted 1/7/13 , edited 1/7/13

Waterst1 wrote:

@ tehstud, Did you looked up the definitions and post them verbatim? What those NITPICKERS did is exactly what you described: " to find trivial, insignificant, unimportant faults to criticize unnecessarily".

As for the taunt? Really? I know, and I'm sure everyone knows you really expected the full treatment by your "Challenge Accepted" proclamation. Again, I just have to laugh. If I wanted to dissect HXH, it'll be in it's thread not this one.

And I never claim that SAO is great by any means. However, you repeatedly used hyperboles to describe yourself with words such as overexposure to good anime, people with good taste, etc. Those I just find very amusing. And yes, you did imply that those who liked it have bad taste. LOL. Who are you to decide that? It's not a statement of facts. It's only your personal opinion, nothing more.

I've grown tired of reading your replies. Be my guest and have the last words. And I said all I wanted to say for this particular thread. Just get off the ego train by assuming you have better tastes than others. END


@ tehstud
... Laughing-out-loud!


Be my guest and have the last words.


Again, laughing-out-loud! How desperate were you for the last word that you wouldn't even quote my post so I wouldn't even be notified of your response. If it wasn't for the other user quoting my post, I wouldn't have even known you responded. That's just cowardly. That just proves to me that you realized you couldn't win what YOU started.

"Did you looked up the definitions and post them verbatim?" No, I did not post the definitions verbatim. To post the definition verbatim would mean that I copy/pasted, word for word. I merely took the necessary components and wrote it in the simplest of terms I could for you. If I did or didn't is irrelevant since it is a definition. I'm not claiming someone else's thoughts as my own. Just goes to show how you are the nitpick. You refuse to admit how I proved you wrong in your description of what criticize means that you search for something as insignificant as a verbatim definition, which it is not. If I truly didn't understand the difference, how could I have gone into further explanation? Maybe if I had stopped with a definition, you could use that to undermine my understanding, but I didn't. Nice try... (not really). "What those NITPICKERS did is exactly what you described: " to find trivial, insignificant, unimportant faults to criticize unnecessarily". Maybe I should repeat the last words of my previous post:


tehstud wrote:

SAO has serious issues. They are apparent. They are objective. They are detractors. Calling such critique as nitpicks is likely an attempt to disparage such critique through rhetoric rather than argumentation.

"As for the taunt? Really? I know, and I'm sure everyone knows you really expected the full treatment by your "Challenge Accepted" proclamation. Again, I just have to laugh. If I wanted to dissect HXH..." I said that moron. Is repetition and rhetoric the only way you argue your point? So far HxH doesn't show any detrimental flaws like SAO did, if you did ''dissect'' the show, you would be nitpicking. Just proving that you don't have the faintest idea how nitpicking and criticizing are different.

"And I never claim that SAO is great by any means." There it is. The HYPOCRISY! You never claimed that SAO is great by any means? What is this then?


Waterst1 wrote:

... SAO are very good series.

Yeah you didn't say the exact word great, but you certainly implied it with the words: very good.

"However, you repeatedly used hyperboles to describe yourself with words such as overexposure to good anime, people with good taste, etc. Those I just find very amusing. And yes, you did imply that those who liked it have bad taste. LOL. Who are you to decide that?"Again, the repetition. How many times must I explain to you that I retracted my first statement, it was hasty, I admit that. You are right, tastes are subjective. I can admit that I spoke hastily. Even so, you continuously repeat it. I make one slip up in my wording and you cling to it like a fly on shit. However, my revised statement is true. Hyperbole or not, it's true nonetheless. Furthermore, I am not describing myself you moron. I made a general and true statement. In my previous post, I explained it IN DETAIL for you to understand. But, it seems the concept of argumentation is too abstract for you to understand so wise choice of you to withdraw.

EDIT: The so-called nitpicking of SAO, albeit some, but not all...


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Posted 1/7/13

tehstud wrote:


Be my guest and have the last words.


Again, laughing-out-loud! How desperate were you for the last word that you wouldn't even quote my post so I wouldn't even be notified of your response. If it wasn't for the other user quoting my post, I wouldn't have even known you responded. That's just cowardly. That just proves to me that you realized you couldn't win what YOU started.



At this point, we are way off topic, and we don't need another SAO thread.
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