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Post Reply Would you like a second season of The Pet Girl of Sakurasou?
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Posted 2/16/13
cant wait cant wait cant wait that show is sooooooooo cuuuuuuuuuute
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I don't doubt that Japan markets them separately, but it still doesn't change the fact that they are separate seasons in a series, not separate series. As I said, a television "season" is not the same as a climate "season", much like a baseball "season" doesn't coincide with one climate "season". It may be easier to refer to a cour as a season that way, but it's not entirely correct. As far as having separate names is concerned, some seasons have separate names, some don't.

Using Random House Webster's College Dictionary as my source:
season, n. 4) a period of the year marked by certain conditions, activities, etc.
series, n. 5) Radio and Television b) two or more programs related by theme, format, or the like
.


When I'm referring to them as separate series, I'm saying separate "Television Series', which is something completely different from the word "series" as you are getting from the dictionary, or the way it was used in the book series analogy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_program

Two shows, even if the names are similar, are just that....TWO shows. One may be a spinoff or a sequel or a prequel, or a side story or even an alternate version or *reboot* of the other, but if they have separate names, they're two separate television series. And when I say Japan markets them separately, I mean yes they are marketed as separate series, not seasons of the same series. If you don't believe me, go onto any online Japanese retail site and see for yourself, Except for the aforementioned long running or ongoing series, most all the box sets of anime are listed as "complete series" or "complete collection". Not "complete1st season", or "complete 2nd season" & such.

But don't just take my word for it. Here is an example of how in Japan the various incarnations of a property are each thought of as a separate series:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2012/10/27/poll-japanese-fans-pick-their-favorite-kyoto-animation-anime

Notice both "Clannad" series and both "K-On" series are listed separately.
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Posted 2/16/13

KaiserSosei wrote:



I don't doubt that Japan markets them separately, but it still doesn't change the fact that they are separate seasons in a series, not separate series. As I said, a television "season" is not the same as a climate "season", much like a baseball "season" doesn't coincide with one climate "season". It may be easier to refer to a cour as a season that way, but it's not entirely correct. As far as having separate names is concerned, some seasons have separate names, some don't.

Using Random House Webster's College Dictionary as my source:
season, n. 4) a period of the year marked by certain conditions, activities, etc.
series, n. 5) Radio and Television b) two or more programs related by theme, format, or the like
.


When I'm referring to them as separate series, I'm saying separate "Television Series', which is something completely different from the word "series" as you are getting from the dictionary, or the way it was used in the book series analogy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_program

Two shows, even if the names are similar, are just that....TWO shows. One may be a spinoff or a sequel or a prequel, or a side story or even an alternate version or *reboot* of the other, but if they have separate names, they're two separate television series. And when I say Japan markets them separately, I mean yes they are marketed as separate series, not seasons of the same series. If you don't believe me, go onto any online Japanese retail site and see for yourself, Except for the aforementioned long running or ongoing series, most all the box sets of anime are listed as "complete series" or "complete collection". Not "complete1st season", or "complete 2nd season" & such.

But don't just take my word for it. Here is an example of how in Japan the various incarnations of a property are each thought of as a separate series:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2012/10/27/poll-japanese-fans-pick-their-favorite-kyoto-animation-anime

Notice both "Clannad" series and both "K-On" series are listed separately.


I guess you're just skimming over my response. If you look closely at the definition I included for "series", it is the term used for television, so it's not different. Also, as I said, I don't doubt that Japan markets "shows" separately; they do here too. The first 24 episodes of Clannad on the R1 DVD set are called the "Complete Collection". However, on the back of the After Story case, it is referred to as the second season. Even if Japan doesn't consider them the same series, outside of Japan it typically is, just like the definition of the term "anime" is different inside and outside of Japan. There's nothing wrong with referring to After Story as the second season of Clannad, even if Japan doesn't do that or use the term "season".

Getting back on track, the point I was trying to make is that "The Pet Girl of Sakurasou" is only 1 season, not 2. There is no reason to divide it up this way. "Cour" and "season" are not interchangeable.

1) There are the 4 anime seasons that refer to when anime debut or run, such as Winter 2013.
2) There is "cour", which refers to those 3-month periods that anime air, usually consisting of 12-13 episodes.
3) There is "season", encompassing all the episodes designated for a continuous run of a show, such as the 26 episodes of Bodacious Space Pirates. A season can be 1 or more cour in length.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=508232&postcount=15
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/the-mike-toole-show/2012-07-01
http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showthread.php?t=94119

Every site that I have checked that mentions "seasons" of anime use it in this context. If you look on the wiki site that you posted the link to, it mentions the term "kuuru", but doesn't say that this is the same as "season", such as "season 1" or "season 2".
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Posted 2/17/13 , edited 2/17/13

noraa3812 wrote:


I guess you're just skimming over my response. If you look closely at the definition I included for "series", it is the term used for television, so it's not different. Also, as I said, I don't doubt that Japan markets "shows" separately; they do here too. The first 24 episodes of Clannad on the R1 DVD set are called the "Complete Collection". However, on the back of the After Story case, it is referred to as the second season. Even if Japan doesn't consider them the same series, outside of Japan it typically is, just like the definition of the term "anime" is different inside and outside of Japan. There's nothing wrong with referring to After Story as the second season of Clannad, even if Japan doesn't do that or use the term "season".




No you're confusing two separate terms. The word "series" when used by itself and in the definition you are using refers to " two or more programs (PLURAL) related by theme, format, or the like" For example, the phrase "the Gundam series" can be used to describe the collection of various incarnations of Gundam (the original "MS Gundam", "Gundam Z", Gundam ZZ", "Gundam Seed", "Gundam Wing"...etc...). But the term "television series" refers specifically to a specific TV program or "TV show" (ex. the "Mobil Suit Zeta Gundam TV series". This term is defined as (quoting my previous Wiki citation) "a connected set of television program episodes that run under the same title, possibly spanning many seasons."

And of course you're box set of Clannad After Story would have the verbiage "2nd season" added to it. As I said in my original post the local licensors/distributors incorrectly release subsequent series as "2nd seasons" & such. Probably they thought adding "2nd season" to a title such as "K-On!!" for example would be easier to market and less confusing/odd than just marketing it as "K-On double exclamation mark", which to be honest probably would never catch on here.

The misunderstanding you and many other fans seem to be having about what constitutes a 2nd season stems from the popular misconception that a season is defined as"encompassing all the episodes designated for a continuous run of a show," This is simply incorrect, as it's based on the assumption that whatever number of cours or episodes the production committee first decides on when making the show, they think if it as merely a single season. A quick talk with any Japanese industry professional at your next con will disprove this. Heck, even watching episode 8 of "Oreimo" here on CR will quickly debunk that myth. Clearly you see them discussing about whether to make that one production run of Kirino's anime one season or two.

Going back to my previous Wiki citation above: "A television series that is intended to comprise a limited number of episodes is usually called a miniseries or serial. Series without a fixed length are usually divided into seasons or series,"

So no, a sequel to "the Pet Girl of Sakurasu" would NOT be a 2nd season. But as programming seasons are typically split up into cours and each cour is approximately 3 months long and coincide with the broadcast seasons, and we're already referring to these broadcast seasons as "seasons of anime', then it's not unreasonable to refer to the Fall season of Sakurasu as the 1st season, and the current Winter season as the 2nd season. Whereas a sequel is the start of a new series, not the continuation of an ongoing one, like what happens when an ongoing series like One Piece gets renewed and the resulting batch of new episodes are referred to as a "season".
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KaiserSosei wrote:


noraa3812 wrote:


I guess you're just skimming over my response. If you look closely at the definition I included for "series", it is the term used for television, so it's not different. Also, as I said, I don't doubt that Japan markets "shows" separately; they do here too. The first 24 episodes of Clannad on the R1 DVD set are called the "Complete Collection". However, on the back of the After Story case, it is referred to as the second season. Even if Japan doesn't consider them the same series, outside of Japan it typically is, just like the definition of the term "anime" is different inside and outside of Japan. There's nothing wrong with referring to After Story as the second season of Clannad, even if Japan doesn't do that or use the term "season".




No you're confusing two separate terms. The word "series" when used by itself and in the definition you are using refers to " two or more programs (PLURAL) related by theme, format, or the like" For example, the phrase "the Gundam series" can be used to describe the collection of various incarnations of Gundam (the original "MS Gundam", "Gundam Z", Gundam ZZ", "Gundam Seed", "Gundam Wing"...etc...). But the term "television series" refers specifically to a specific TV program or "TV show" (ex. the "Mobil Suit Zeta Gundam TV series". This term is defined as (quoting my previous Wiki citation) "a connected set of television program episodes that run under the same title, possibly spanning many seasons."

And of course you're box set of Clannad After Story would have the verbiage "2nd season" added to it. As I said in my original post the local licensors/distributors incorrectly release subsequent series as "2nd seasons" & such. Probably they thought adding "2nd season" to a title such as "K-On!!" for example would be easier to market and less confusing/odd than just marketing it as "K-On double exclamation mark", which to be honest probably would never catch on here.

The misunderstanding you and many other fans seem to be having about what constitutes a 2nd season stems from the popular misconception that a season is defined as"encompassing all the episodes designated for a continuous run of a show," This is simply incorrect, as it's based on the assumption that whatever number of cours or episodes the production committee first decides on when making the show, they think if it as merely a single season. A quick talk with any Japanese industry professional at your next con will disprove this. Heck, even watching episode 8 of "Oreimo" here on CR will quickly debunk that myth. Clearly you see them discussing about whether to make that one production run of Kirino's anime one season or two.

Going back to my previous Wiki citation above: "A television series that is intended to comprise a limited number of episodes is usually called a miniseries or serial. Series without a fixed length are usually divided into seasons or series,"

So no, a sequel to "the Pet Girl of Sakurasu" would NOT be a 2nd season. But as programming seasons are typically split up into cours and each cour is approximately 3 months long and coincide with the broadcast seasons, and we're already referring to these broadcast seasons as "seasons of anime', then it's not unreasonable to refer to the Fall season of Sakurasu as the 1st season, and the current Winter season as the 2nd season. Whereas a sequel is the start of a new series, not the continuation of an ongoing one, like what happens when an ongoing series like One Piece gets renewed and the resulting batch of new episodes are referred to as a "season".


Then we're talking about series of a series, by what you're telling me (the Gundam series consisting of several different individual series). But then, the dictionary, with any of the definitions for television series, never says that it has to maintain the exact same name. Just so you know, Wikipedia is not a legit source. So I still don't think I, and the overwhelming majority of anime fans, are incorrect or unreasonable.

However, I am going to refer back to my previous quote. Just like you claim that I'm confusing two different definitions for "series", you're confusing two different definitions for "season". Yes, episodes 13-24 air during the Winter 2013 anime season, the second anime season that the series airs during. But it is NOT the second season of The Pet Girl of Sakurasou. This definition of "season" and the term "cours" are NOT the same. This definition of "season" and the "anime season" that it airs during are NOT the same. You may think it's easy to call it the second season because of this, but that does NOT make it correct. The Pet Girl of Sakurasou is one series consisting of one season and two cours.
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Posted 2/19/13

noraa3812 wrote:


Then we're talking about series of a series, by what you're telling me (the Gundam series consisting of several different individual series). But then, the dictionary, with any of the definitions for television series, never says that it has to maintain the exact same name. Just so you know, Wikipedia is not a legit source. So I still don't think I, and the overwhelming majority of anime fans, are incorrect or unreasonable.

However, I am going to refer back to my previous quote. Just like you claim that I'm confusing two different definitions for "series", you're confusing two different definitions for "season". Yes, episodes 13-24 air during the Winter 2013 anime season, the second anime season that the series airs during. But it is NOT the second season of The Pet Girl of Sakurasou. This definition of "season" and the term "cours" are NOT the same. This definition of "season" and the "anime season" that it airs during are NOT the same. You may think it's easy to call it the second season because of this, but that does NOT make it correct. The Pet Girl of Sakurasou is one series consisting of one season and two cours.


LOL, so now Wikipedia is not a legit source, but you have dictionary definitions definitions that contradict what is said there? Wow, I would be so interested to know which dictionaries you are looking at that would have such a different translation.

To be fair, there is the definition of a season as 2 cours that is used. But as I pointed out before, that really is only used when referring to shows with an "open ended" run (no preset episode count), of which there are very few in Japan. In fact only about a handful of shows here on CR fit that bill.

If YOU insist on referring to the 2nd half of "Sakurasou" as the "2nd cour", or the "2nd half", or "Part B" or whatever, you are free to do that. But seeing as CR already divvies up all of their simulcasts into 4 calendar seasons to be in line with the Japanese broadcast system , and nearly all of their shows fall under the "limited series" category and aren't officially broken up into seasons, it's not unreasonable nor incorrect to have people refer to these seasons without having to specify them as "calendar seasons". Especially in the light of the fact that, as the aforementioned episode 8 of "Oreimo" proves, even Japanese anime industry professionals use the terms "seasons" and "cours" interchangeably.
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Posted 2/19/13 , edited 2/19/13

KaiserSosei wrote:


noraa3812 wrote:


Then we're talking about series of a series, by what you're telling me (the Gundam series consisting of several different individual series). But then, the dictionary, with any of the definitions for television series, never says that it has to maintain the exact same name. Just so you know, Wikipedia is not a legit source. So I still don't think I, and the overwhelming majority of anime fans, are incorrect or unreasonable.

However, I am going to refer back to my previous quote. Just like you claim that I'm confusing two different definitions for "series", you're confusing two different definitions for "season". Yes, episodes 13-24 air during the Winter 2013 anime season, the second anime season that the series airs during. But it is NOT the second season of The Pet Girl of Sakurasou. This definition of "season" and the term "cours" are NOT the same. This definition of "season" and the "anime season" that it airs during are NOT the same. You may think it's easy to call it the second season because of this, but that does NOT make it correct. The Pet Girl of Sakurasou is one series consisting of one season and two cours.


LOL, so now Wikipedia is not a legit source, but you have dictionary definitions definitions that contradict what is said there? Wow, I would be so interested to know which dictionaries you are looking at that would have such a different translation.

To be fair, there is the definition of a season as 2 cours that is used. But as I pointed out before, that really is only used when referring to shows with an "open ended" run (no preset episode count), of which there are very few in Japan. In fact only about a handful of shows here on CR fit that bill.

If YOU insist on referring to the 2nd half of "Sakurasou" as the "2nd cour", or the "2nd half", or "Part B" or whatever, you are free to do that. But seeing as CR already divvies up all of their simulcasts into 4 calendar seasons to be in line with the Japanese broadcast system , and nearly all of their shows fall under the "limited series" category and aren't officially broken up into seasons, it's not unreasonable nor incorrect to have people refer to these seasons without having to specify them as "calendar seasons". Especially in the light of the fact that, as the aforementioned episode 8 of "Oreimo" proves, even Japanese anime industry professionals use the terms "seasons" and "cours" interchangeably.


Evidently this is a big revelation, but it is not unheard of for Wikipedia to have errors, contradictions, etc. This is likely why college professors will not let students include it as a source on assignments. So it shouldn't be surprising that Wikipedia has definitions that contradict those of dictionaries or other reliable sources.

Anyways, I do think I mentioned the dictionary I used to look up "series". However, you don't have to take my word for it. You yourself can go to Google and look up "dictionary series". Here are a couple for you. I have yet to seen any, in addition to these, that say that a television series must maintain the exact same name.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/series
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/series

In reference to Oreimo episode 8, I'm guessing you're referring to when the guy says "Right now, we're only planning on one season, so 13 episodes all together. Did you think it would be two seasons?" All that proves is that the translator chose to translate "kuuru" as "season". However, when you research the term "kuuru" on the internet, you will find that the two terms are similar, but not the same, and I've read several posts that have emphasized that. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such a big hoopla over the term whenever it is used. If "kuuru" literally translates to "tv season", then there wouldn't be so much fuss over the two terms across the internet. The translator likely just went with the similar term as opposed to spelling out the exact definition or using the term "kuuru" since it is jargon. I can't just accept this translation from Oreimo (and anime translations can be wrong) and disregard everything I know and learned concerning the terms "kuuru" and "season".

Also, at about 21:15 of episode 1 and 00:18 of episode 2 in Seitokai no Ichizon Lv. 2, the characters refer to the show as "season 2" and its prequel as "season 1". If this is translated correctly, then your assertion that a series must maintain the exact same name from season to season is wrong. If it is an incorrect translation, then it proves my previous point about inaccurate anime translations. Therefore, your Oreimo argument doesn't prove anything.
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Posted 2/19/13 , edited 2/19/13
Forget all the technical nonsense, to me it's all one season. They just took a break in between, that's all. Same with Fate / Zero.
Posted 2/19/13 , edited 2/19/13

Plazabroski wrote:

Hopefully Sorata and Mashiro Kiss...and maybe another scene like...


No, I have not had sex.

Who cares about kissing, that happens all the time, it is all about the nudity.
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Posted 2/19/13
Wait- season 2??!!! Season 1 isn't even finished yet! Thank you for this valuable information.
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Posted 2/19/13 , edited 2/19/13

TripleBakaKimidori wrote:

Wait- season 2??!!! Season 1 isn't even finished yet! Thank you for this valuable information.


Season 2 meaning after ep 12 they didn't have an episode for a month or two then they picked it back up again.

It's two-cour. So think: Season 1 is ep 1-12 and Season 2 is ep 13-24, but it's all in one thing. I probably just confused you as well as myself.
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Posted 2/20/13

noraa3812 wrote:


In reference to Oreimo episode 8, I'm guessing you're referring to when the guy says "Right now, we're only planning on one season, so 13 episodes all together. Did you think it would be two seasons?" All that proves is that the translator chose to translate "kuuru" as "season". .


You're missing the point. Kirino thought she was going to get 52 eps for her anime (2 full seasons of 26 eps or 2 cours each) for a total of 4 cours. The production guy in the meeting told her that for her limited amount of source material they were only ONE season, and only one cour at that (if one season is 12-13 eps, then two would be 24-26, not 52). All of this disproves they notion that a "season" is simply defined as "one continuous run of anime", and that "a sequel would be considered a "second season". Which was the whole point of my original post.

BTW - I was half joking about wanting to know what dictionaries you were using. As the term "Television Series" is an industry term, you're not likely to find a definition in an ordinary dictionary. Just like you're saying I'm confusing the term "seasons" - which I'm not, I'm referring here to the calendar seasons that CR simulcasts in - you keep confusing the word "series" by itself with the term "Television series".

Get it now?
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Posted 2/20/13 , edited 2/20/13

KaiserSosei wrote:


noraa3812 wrote:


In reference to Oreimo episode 8, I'm guessing you're referring to when the guy says "Right now, we're only planning on one season, so 13 episodes all together. Did you think it would be two seasons?" All that proves is that the translator chose to translate "kuuru" as "season". .


You're missing the point. Kirino thought she was going to get 52 eps for her anime (2 full seasons of 26 eps or 2 cours each) for a total of 4 cours. The production guy in the meeting told her that for her limited amount of source material they were only ONE season, and only one cour at that (if one season is 12-13 eps, then two would be 24-26, not 52). All of this disproves they notion that a "season" is simply defined as "one continuous run of anime", and that "a sequel would be considered a "second season". Which was the whole point of my original post.

BTW - I was half joking about wanting to know what dictionaries you were using. As the term "Television Series" is an industry term, you're not likely to find a definition in an ordinary dictionary. Just like you're saying I'm confusing the term "seasons" - which I'm not, I'm referring here to the calendar seasons that CR simulcasts in - you keep confusing the word "series" by itself with the term "Television series".

Get it now?

No, it doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that instead of 2 seasons of 2 cours each, she was only going to get 1 season of 1 cour. It doesn't disprove anything I've said. My example of Seitokai no Ichizon Lv. 2 from my previous post counters your argument that a sequel is not a second season. Yes, a season is still a continuous run or block of anime (or any show for that matter). If you're talking about the calendar season that CR simulcasts in, then that's fine, but that is a different definition of "season" than saying "season 2 of The Pet Girl of Sakurasou". What you're saying is "the second anime season that The Pet Girl of Sakurasou aired in".

Would you please read the dictionary links? There is a definition for television series. No, I am not confusing "series" and "television series". My previous post showed the definition for "television series", not "series" in general or in other situations. I'm getting to the point where I'm just repeating my previous posts, so just refer to those since this is getting tiresome.
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Posted 2/21/13

noraa3812 wrote:

No, it doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that instead of 2 seasons of 2 cours each, she was only going to get 1 season of 1 cour. It doesn't disprove anything I've said. My example of Seitokai no Ichizon Lv. 2 from my previous post counters your argument that a sequel is not a second season. Yes, a season is still a continuous run or block of anime (or any show for that matter). If you're talking about the calendar season that CR simulcasts in, then that's fine, but that is a different definition of "season" than saying "season 2 of The Pet Girl of Sakurasou". What you're saying is "the second anime season that The Pet Girl of Sakurasou aired in".

Would you please read the dictionary links? There is a definition for television series. No, I am not confusing "series" and "television series". My previous post showed the definition for "television series", not "series" in general or in other situations. I'm getting to the point where I'm just repeating my previous posts, so just refer to those since this is getting tiresome.


OK, looking back I forgot she was talking about different openings AND endings, so the 52 number Kirino was referring to was for 26 eps. However the gist of what I'm trying to communicate here seems to be going over your head or it's just not coming across well, so I agree it's getting tiresome, so just go with however you want to look at it and we'll agree it's a different definition of "season".
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All of the above said, season, cour, tomato, tomato, it is looking more and more like we really will need another season of Sakurasou no petto na kanojo. Whether it is the 2nd season or the third, we will need it!
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