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Are certain people slaves to society?
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12
If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?
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27 / M / in a world where...
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Posted 12/29/12
how would you define slave in this context?
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

uhohimdead wrote:

how would you define slave in this context?


A person who is forced to live on the behalf of society and cannot pursue their dreams.
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37 / M / Northern California
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Posted 12/29/12 , edited 12/29/12

lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


You keep using the word "slave", and that word implies that there is no viable choice involved in their circumstances. By continuing to live, a choice is being made, even if it is not a palatable one to the person making it. That does not imply slavery, it implies limitations, self-imposed or otherwise. Self-imposed limitations do not make one a "slave" to anyone else. A slave has no viable choice, and whether you choose to see it or not, viable choices do exist. Do not equate the two, because they are not the same. Lack of interest does not equate to slavery; it is however a viewpoint steeped in a lack of imagination. Dying is easy. Being simply alive is easy, for most people in first world countries. It's living that takes effort, and an unwillingness to put in that effort, and to in turn define the meaning of your own existence, is not the fault of society.

If people wish to see themselves as trapped in a set of circumstances, and don't seek a way to change the circumstances around them, then they are bound by their own mental limitations. If they find a way, but do not make the effort to do so, then they are still bound by mental limitations, but rather than move forward, they lack resolve. It is not the fault of anyone but the person coming to these conclusions and acting in that manner. If anything, they see themselves as victims, but the crime is self inflicted.


EDIT: You may as well be asking other people to define your self-worth. It is something a person can only determine for themselves. While others may disagree about what that value may be, both before and after your death, the only person it should ultimately matter to, is you.
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Posted 12/29/12
They are a slave to their own desire, living alternate lives through entertainment. I think to be a slave to society is to be forced to do anything society demands them to that isn't justified.
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83 / F / Bite the pillow.
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Posted 12/29/12

lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


No, not by your definition of "society" in your original post.

First, even living "alternative" lives through entertainment is still living on Earth. Setting aside intergalactic space travel, there is, at the moment, no other place for us to live (sans the Moon). Obviously, that will change at some point, but even if you lock yourself in your home and don't go "outside" and mingy among other humans, you're still on Earth.

Second, living an alternative life "online" or through entertainment (social networks, online games, forums, movies/TV, etc.) makes you a recluse ... not a slave to society, and more than likely, you're afraid to get hurt or take risks.

By definition, a "slave to society" is someone who allows society, the masses, dictate what they do, what they wear, and what they are. A slave to society is devoid of their own thought which is replaced by societal trends and appraisal. They are a soulless robot either by choice or, by law, or out of survival.

In your original post, you use the words "passion for living". That is something a "slave to society" does not have. A passion for living for a slave is either taken away or lost.

By living ONLY alternative lives (virtual personalities) online or through movies/anime/TV, you could become a slave to delusion. Or manifestations of delusion. But really, that not "slavery"... that's an addiction. It's a disease.

It's kind of like how some people are obsessed with getting re-Tweets on Twitter or "Likes" on Facebook. They're addicted to praise and it becomes an oppressive disease that consumes their lives to the point of crippling them. Their entire self-esteem is based on the praise of others.

If you aren't "special" in this world, if you don't stick out, if you aren't successful as defined by money, status, beauty (or whatever) ... an escape to living alternative lives online or through movies/games/TV in order to create a better you, is not slavery.

It's death.
Posted 12/29/12
Life is just all about acts of robotic-ism and falling into uniformity.
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25 / M / Guess
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Posted 12/29/12

lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


No, they have choose ennui over productively using their lives, both to their own pleasure and benefit, and to the pleasure and benefit of others.
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36 / M / The Void.
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Posted 12/29/12
This whole planet has been a slave plantation for the past 26,000 thousands.
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

Spazticus wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


You keep using the word "slave", and that word implies that there is no viable choice involved in their circumstances. By continuing to live, a choice is being made, even if it is not a palatable one to the person making it. That does not imply slavery, it implies limitations, self-imposed or otherwise. Self-imposed limitations do not make one a "slave" to anyone else. A slave has no viable choice, and whether you choose to see it or not, viable choices do exist. Do not equate the two, because they are not the same. Lack of interest does not equate to slavery; it is however a viewpoint steeped in a lack of imagination. Dying is easy. Being simply alive is easy, for most people in first world countries. It's living that takes effort, and an unwillingness to put in that effort, and to in turn define the meaning of your own existence, is not the fault of society.

If people wish to see themselves as trapped in a set of circumstances, and don't seek a way to change the circumstances around them, then they are bound by their own mental limitations. If they find a way, but do not make the effort to do so, then they are still bound by mental limitations, but rather than move forward, they lack resolve. It is not the fault of anyone but the person coming to these conclusions and acting in that manner. If anything, they see themselves as victims, but the crime is self inflicted.


EDIT: You may as well be asking other people to define your self-worth. It is something only a person can determine for themselves. While others may disagree about what that value may be, both before and after your death, the only person it should actually matter to is you.


The "viable" choices that you are referring to are the ones that people expect you to make, are they not? There is only a limited number of actions that any person can make in their life, and if none of these actions provide personal meaning to them, then they could be considered a slave if the people around them still want them to live because of their own selfish motives. Because society does not agree with the principle of suicide, it can be considered a form of slavery to hold a person against their desire to kill themselves.

My ultimate aspiration is to live an alternate life, and the only possibility of this ever happening is to end the life I am currently living. There are no other viable options for me. I cannot change the circumstances in this particular case. In refusing to let me end my life, you are no different than a slave owner.

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Posted 12/29/12 , edited 12/29/12

So rather than go with what you believe is someone else's choice you are going to continue on with your current miserable existence only to spite everyone else in the world. Great plan there, champ. You speak so often of wanting to kill yourself, and your reasons for not doing so. Before it was because you didn't have a sure way to do so, now you say that society itself is keeping you from doing so? How full of excuses can one person be?

You sir, are a coward. You have problems you blame everyone else for, questions you expect everyone else to answer for you, and quite frankly... a life you want someone else to tell you how to live. Man up and start making your own choices.
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

Hairbelly wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


No, not by your definition of "society" in your original post.

First, even living "alternative" lives through entertainment is still living on Earth. Setting aside intergalactic space travel, there is, at the moment, no other place for us to live (sans the Moon). Obviously, that will change at some point, but even if you lock yourself in your home and don't go "outside" and mingy among other humans, you're still on Earth.

Second, living an alternative life "online" or through entertainment (social networks, online games, forums, movies/TV, etc.) makes you a recluse ... not a slave to society, and more than likely, you're afraid to get hurt or take risks.

By definition, a "slave to society" is someone who allows society, the masses, dictate what they do, what they wear, and what they are. A slave to society is devoid of their own thought which is replaced by societal trends and appraisal. They are a soulless robot either by choice or, by law, or out of survival.

In your original post, you use the words "passion for living". That is something a "slave to society" does not have. A passion for living for a slave is either taken away or lost.

By living ONLY alternative lives (virtual personalities) online or through movies/anime/TV, you could become a slave to delusion. Or manifestations of delusion. But really, that not "slavery"... that's an addiction. It's a disease.

It's kind of like how some people are obsessed with getting re-Tweets on Twitter or "Likes" on Facebook. They're addicted to praise and it becomes an oppressive disease that consumes their lives to the point of crippling them. Their entire self-esteem is based on the praise of others.

If you aren't "special" in this world, if you don't stick out, if you aren't successful as defined by money, status, beauty (or whatever) ... an escape to living alternative lives online or through movies/games/TV in order to create a better you, is not slavery.

It's death.


What I am implying is a desire to live in a fantasy world, which would not have the same constraints as this universe does. I use the term "slave" because society does not condone suicide as a viable means for achieving a goal. I am expected to live up to your expectations as a citizen of society, which does not include the right to kill myself. Because society holds this right against me, I am forever enslaved by this particual aspect of it.
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


No, they have choose ennui over productively using their lives, both to their own pleasure and benefit, and to the pleasure and benefit of others.


That is just your opinion. You cannot determine what should make a particular person happy.
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37 / M / Northern California
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Posted 12/29/12

lordseth23 wrote:


The "viable" choices that you are referring to are the ones that people expect you to make, are they not? There is only a limited number of actions that any person can make in their life, and if none of these actions provide personal meaning to them, then they could be considered a slave if the people around them still want them to live because of their own selfish motives. Because society does not agree with the principle of suicide, it can be considered a form of slavery to hold a person against their desire to kill themselves.

My ultimate aspiration is to live an alternate life, and the only possibility of this ever happening is to end the life I am currently living. There are no other viable options for me. I cannot change the circumstances in this particular case. In refusing to let me end my life, you are no different than a slave owner.


No, the viable choices I suggest are different for everyone, and unique to their circumstances. More than once you've stated that you've given up looking for those choices, or that they will make no difference. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, because life will go on, whether or not you choose to act. That act of apathy itself is a choice, but you have total control over that apathy. You keep pinning this responsibility on society, the universe, and so on, but you're just deflecting the responsibility away from yourself. It's not your fault if all these forces are stacked against you, is it? But they're not...you just keep saying they are, and take the coward's path of ennui. That's all on you. Keep blaming the world, maybe it'll take the hint and become your utopia, by way of some miracle. If that fails, you've lost nothing, because you reap only what you sowed.

You make it sound as if other people are taking a proverbial gun away from your head, when it reality, most people wouldn't care either way. It's your life, end it or not as you see fit. I am in no way telling you whether or not to end your life, and I resent the implication that I am somehow personally preventing you from doing so. I also resent the implication that I am taking choices away from you that you have total control over. Take accountability for your own actions, or lack thereof. I do think suicide is an act of cowardice in most cases, the exceptions being those in which one sacrifices their life to save the life of another...and in the case of the terminally ill.
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

serenity1905 wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


Spazticus wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


You keep using the word "slave", and that word implies that there is no viable choice involved in their circumstances. By continuing to live, a choice is being made, even if it is not a palatable one to the person making it. That does not imply slavery, it implies limitations, self-imposed or otherwise. Self-imposed limitations do not make one a "slave" to anyone else. A slave has no viable choice, and whether you choose to see it or not, viable choices do exist. Do not equate the two, because they are not the same. Lack of interest does not equate to slavery; it is however a viewpoint steeped in a lack of imagination. Dying is easy. Being simply alive is easy, for most people in first world countries. It's living that takes effort, and an unwillingness to put in that effort, and to in turn define the meaning of your own existence, is not the fault of society.

If people wish to see themselves as trapped in a set of circumstances, and don't seek a way to change the circumstances around them, then they are bound by their own mental limitations. If they find a way, but do not make the effort to do so, then they are still bound by mental limitations, but rather than move forward, they lack resolve. It is not the fault of anyone but the person coming to these conclusions and acting in that manner. If anything, they see themselves as victims, but the crime is self inflicted.


EDIT: You may as well be asking other people to define your self-worth. It is something only a person can determine for themselves. While others may disagree about what that value may be, both before and after your death, the only person it should actually matter to is you.


The "viable" choices that you are referring to are the ones that people expect you to make, are they not? There is only a limited number of actions that any person can make in their life, and if none of these actions provide personal meaning to them, then they could be considered a slave if the people around them still want them to live because of their own selfish motives. Because society does not agree with the principle of suicide, it can be considered a form of slavery to hold a person against their desire to kill themselves.

My ultimate aspiration is to live an alternate life, and the only possibility of this ever happening is to end the life I am currently living. There are no other viable options for me. I cannot change the circumstances in this particular case. In refusing to let me end my life, you are no different than a slave owner.




So rather than go with what you believe is someone else's choice you are going to continue on with your current miserable existence only to spite everyone else in the world. Great plan there, champ. You speak so often of wanting to kill yourself, and your reasons for not doing so. Before it was because you didn't have a sure way to do so, now you say that society itself is keeping you from doing so? How full of excuses can one person be?

You sir, are a coward. You have problems you blame everyone else for, questions you expect everyone else to answer for you, and quite frankly... a life you want someone else to tell you how to live. Man up and start making your own choices.


I'm sorry, but I have come to the conclusion that society does not condone suicide. If it did, then I obviously wouldn't be a slave to it. I am stating that because people do not want the vast majority of other people to die, regardless of the circumstances, that people who want to die are a slave to them. Yes, they could commit suicide on their own, but they are still considered a slave because they were not given that choice to do so by society. That was my point for this thread, it was never meant to address my personal problems, I only use myself as an example.

You talk as if I should live the way you want me to live. Instead of calling me a coward, why don't you explain your reasons for disagreeing with my philosophy if you insist on condemning me personally.
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