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Are certain people slaves to society?
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25 / M / Guess
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Posted 12/29/12

lordseth23 wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


No, they have choose ennui over productively using their lives, both to their own pleasure and benefit, and to the pleasure and benefit of others.


That is just your opinion. You cannot determine what should make a particular person happy.



No, but I can tell them that if they aren't doing jack shit to improve their own or other happiness, and, instead moping around and moaning about how boring their life is, they are being enslaved, they are just being indolent.
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Posted 12/29/12


Why do you put so much stock in what society cares about... you claim to have so much disdain for this world and the way it is run, but still you seek for answers from people who are a part of it. If you want to die, no one is stopping you, but you. It's as simple as that. Nobody likes it when someone commits suicide, but that doesn't seem to stop those people who are determined to kill themselves, does it? You WANT society to offer you a drug that will take your life, or put your neck under a guillotine just because you're unhappy with the way things are? Sorry.... not gonna happen. That in itself is cowardice. You want to be dead? Do it yourself, don't wimp out and make someone else do it for you.

There is no certain way in which I want you to live, and never will be. Your life is entirely separate from my own... live it yourself, or don't... it doesn't really matter either way to me.
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

Spazticus wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


The "viable" choices that you are referring to are the ones that people expect you to make, are they not? There is only a limited number of actions that any person can make in their life, and if none of these actions provide personal meaning to them, then they could be considered a slave if the people around them still want them to live because of their own selfish motives. Because society does not agree with the principle of suicide, it can be considered a form of slavery to hold a person against their desire to kill themselves.

My ultimate aspiration is to live an alternate life, and the only possibility of this ever happening is to end the life I am currently living. There are no other viable options for me. I cannot change the circumstances in this particular case. In refusing to let me end my life, you are no different than a slave owner.


No, the viable choices I suggest are different for everyone, and unique to their circumstances. More than once you've stated that you've given up looking for those choices, or that they will make no difference. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, because life will go on, whether or not you choose to act. That act of apathy itself is a choice, but you have total control over that apathy. You keep pinning this responsibility on society, the universe, and so on, but you're just deflecting the responsibility away from yourself. It's not your fault if all these forces are stacked against you, is it? But they're not...you just keep saying they are, and take the coward's path of ennui. That's all on you. Keep blaming the world, maybe it'll take the hint and become your utopia, by way of some miracle. If that fails, you've lost nothing, because you reap only what you sowed.

You make it sound as if other people are taking a proverbial gun away from your head, when it reality, most people wouldn't care either way. It's your life, end it or not as you see fit. I am in no way telling you whether or not to end your life, and I resent the implication that I am somehow personally preventing you from doing so. I also resent the implication that I am taking choices away from you that you have total control over. Take accountability for your own actions, or lack thereof. I do think suicide is an act of cowardice in most cases, the exceptions being those in which one sacrifices their life to save the life of another...and in the case of the terminally ill.


I am still a slave because you are telling me what to do, how to think and act. Even if I did everything you said, I would still be a slave to society because I would be repressing my desires in order to adhere to your expectations of me and my thinking patterns.

Again, I cannot end my life and pursue my ultimate goal without violating society's code of conduct, thereby making me a slave to it. I have no control over this matter.
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


No, they have choose ennui over productively using their lives, both to their own pleasure and benefit, and to the pleasure and benefit of others.


That is just your opinion. You cannot determine what should make a particular person happy.



No, but I can tell them that if they aren't doing jack shit to improve their own or other happiness, and, instead moping around and moaning about how boring their life is, they are being enslaved, they are just being indolent.


What if they couldn't pursue a goal that they had?
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

serenity1905 wrote:



Why do you put so much stock in what society cares about... you claim to have so much disdain for this world and the way it is run, but still you seek for answers from people who are a part of it. If you want to die, no one is stopping you, but you. It's as simple as that. Nobody likes it when someone commits suicide, but that doesn't seem to stop those people who are determined to kill themselves, does it? You WANT society to offer you a drug that will take your life, or put your neck under a guillotine just because you're unhappy with the way things are? Sorry.... not gonna happen. That in itself is cowardice. You want to be dead? Do it yourself, don't wimp out and make someone else do it for you.

There is no certain way in which I want you to live, and never will be. Your life is entirely separate from my own... live it yourself, or don't... it doesn't really matter either way to me.


How is it cowardly?
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Posted 12/29/12 , edited 12/29/12


1: You seem to have a knack for blaming society for your problems... own up to it... this is cowardly.
2: You want to die, but will not do the deed yourself, instead you want someone else to take your life... cowardly.
3: Instead of finding a way to bring happiness to your own life, you not only want someone else to tell you how, but also expect the whole of society to conform to your way of thinking so you can find this ideal life of yours. This is the ultimate cowardice in my opinion.

The world does not revolve around you... things aren't going your way? Oh well, get over it. Do you have any idea how many other people can say the same thing? There is no such thing as the "ideal life", or an easy dream.

Your life... no... your entire existence is what you make of it. Not being willing to do something to change your circumstances makes you a coward, and saying that people are trying to make you into a slave when telling you something similar just makes you a fool.
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25 / M / Guess
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Posted 12/29/12

lordseth23 wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


No, they have choose ennui over productively using their lives, both to their own pleasure and benefit, and to the pleasure and benefit of others.


That is just your opinion. You cannot determine what should make a particular person happy.



No, but I can tell them that if they aren't doing jack shit to improve their own or other happiness, and, instead moping around and moaning about how boring their life is, they are being enslaved, they are just being indolent.


What if they couldn't pursue a goal that they had?


They are not a slave if they do not take active steps to do something- if they fail, they fail, but not starting is no reason to accuse society of slavery.
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37 / M / Northern California
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Posted 12/29/12 , edited 12/29/12

lordseth23 wrote:


I am still a slave because you are telling me what to do, how to think and act. Even if I did everything you said, I would still be a slave to society because I would be repressing my desires in order to adhere to your expectations of me and my thinking patterns.

Again, I cannot end my life and pursue my ultimate goal without violating society's code of conduct, thereby making me a slave to it. I have no control over this matter.


Oh, you're such a victim. You won't take accountability for your own actions, but you'll willingly pin the reasons for them on anyone or anything other than yourself - that is pure cowardice, and false victimhood at best.

You try to say I'm telling you how to live, when I'm not. I'm telling you to decide for yourself how you wish to live, all on your own, and then do it. I'm telling you to make your own path, and not rely on anyone else to lay out a path for you. Determine it for yourself, and live with the consequences. Or don't, and take the coward's path. That's a choice, too; but at least you'd be the one making it. How hard is that concept for you to grasp? Apparently, being told to think for yourself is the penultimate way in which I am "telling you what to do, how to think and act". Because that's somehow a logical conclusion.

If that means that the only way you wish to live is only long enough to kill yourself, that is the path you choose, and so be it. You lament about not having friends, but seriously, why would anyone want to befriend someone who is so obsessed with suicide? You're convinced they can't save you from yourself, so you'd just drag them down into your selfish, self-loathing spiral. If you go through with it, you'll only inflict pain on them, which really defeats the purpose of anyone befriending you. Plus, you'll be dead, so any friendships are moot. Also: Survivor's guilt. It's not a pleasant thing, and I know of this firsthand.
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

serenity1905 wrote:



1: You seem to have a knack for blaming society for your problems... own up to it... this is cowardly.
2: You want to die, but will not do the deed yourself, instead you want someone else to take your life... cowardly.
3: Instead of finding a way to bring happiness to your own life, you not only want someone else to tell you how, but also expect the whole of society to conform to your way of thinking so you can find this ideal life of yours. This is the ultimate cowardice in my opinion.

The world does not revolve around you... things aren't going your way? Oh well, get over it. Do you have any idea how many other people can say the same thing? There is no such thing as the "ideal life", or an easy dream.

Your life... no... your entire existence is what you make of it. Not being willing to do something to change your circumstances makes you a coward, and saying that people are trying to make you into a slave when telling you something similar just makes you a fool.


1. Own up to it? What do you mean by this? I'm not blaming society as much as I am blaming nature and my creation for my problems.
2. There is no reliable suicide method available to me at the moment, or else I would kill myself. It is not worth the risk of failing suicide when I might not be able to realize my goal after death.
3. I have found a way, I already stated my ultimate goal. How is it cowardly?

Just because you are satisfied with your life and have something to live for in it doesn't mean I have to find some meaning in my own. What gives you the right to say that I cannot aspire to live an ideal life? Why can't I dream about this?
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25 / M / Hughesville, Penn...
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Posted 12/29/12

longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

If a person had no interest in continuing to live on Earth, and only had a passion for living alternate lives through entertainment, are they a slave to society?


No, they have choose ennui over productively using their lives, both to their own pleasure and benefit, and to the pleasure and benefit of others.


That is just your opinion. You cannot determine what should make a particular person happy.



No, but I can tell them that if they aren't doing jack shit to improve their own or other happiness, and, instead moping around and moaning about how boring their life is, they are being enslaved, they are just being indolent.


What if they couldn't pursue a goal that they had?


They are not a slave if they do not take active steps to do something- if they fail, they fail, but not starting is no reason to accuse society of slavery.


They are still a slave, regardless of whether they attempt to pursue their goals or not, because society is in direct opposition to them.
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