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Why do people engage in self-destructive behavior?
Posted 1/16/13 , edited 1/16/13

CLarose wrote:



I see where youre going. I just dont think the OP realizes how controlling and domineering his ideals appear.
Both the saint and fanatic believe in the same thing; that their work is making the world a better place, all in their own perfection.

So tell me, oh ye defender of freedom and liberty, are you a saint or a fanatic? How cruel it is when we're left with nothing else but to choose between illusions of freedom.

Sheena Iyengar: The art of choosing
Sheena Iyengar studies how we make choices -- and how we feel about the choices we make. At TEDGlobal, she talks about both trivial choices (Coke v. Pepsi) and profound ones, and shares her groundbreaking research that has uncovered some surprising attitudes about our decisions.

Americans tend to believe that they've reached some sort of pinnacle in the way they practice choice. They think that choice, as seen through the American lens best fulfills an innate and universal desire for choice in all humans. Unfortunately, these beliefs are based on assumptions that don't always hold true in many countries, in many cultures. At times they don't even hold true at America's own borders.
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Posted 1/16/13 , edited 1/16/13
I guess because once you try a drug it feels good to some people, than when you are are sick of the world or need a relief you do it again and again. Thats why drugs are terrible and no one should do them, but I always thought weed was alright and not a big deal but sometimes that makes people want to try newer drugs so its bad too. And I absolutly can't stand a person who downs a person for smoking weed, but yet they go and drink themselfs silly and think that its okay to drink because its not like smoking weed. Whats the difference. Plus Drinking kills more people every year for many different reasons, but you never hear anything about weed killing or causing problems. Just saying. As for sex well I don't believe in people just having sex with everyone to be honest. I think its a special thing that should be shared with one person. Kids don't listen then later on they wish they would have waited when they finally get it...

So to break it down. Its a cruel world with many different beliefs, perspectives and reasons to why people do what they do.
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Posted 1/16/13 , edited 1/17/13

DomFortress wrote:


CLarose wrote:



I see where youre going. I just dont think the OP realizes how controlling and domineering his ideals appear.
Both the saint and fanatic believe in the same thing; that their work is making the world a better place, all in their own perfection.

So tell me, oh ye defender of freedom and liberty, are you a saint or a fanatic? How cruel it is when we're left with nothing else but to choose between illusions of freedom.

Sheena Iyengar: The art of choosing
Sheena Iyengar studies how we make choices -- and how we feel about the choices we make. At TEDGlobal, she talks about both trivial choices (Coke v. Pepsi) and profound ones, and shares her groundbreaking research that has uncovered some surprising attitudes about our decisions.

Americans tend to believe that they've reached some sort of pinnacle in the way they practice choice. They think that choice, as seen through the American lens best fulfills an innate and universal desire for choice in all humans. Unfortunately, these beliefs are based on assumptions that don't always hold true in many countries, in many cultures. At times they don't even hold true at America's own borders.


No decent man is any one thing.... Thats all I have to say to you.
Posted 1/17/13

CLarose wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


CLarose wrote:



I see where youre going. I just dont think the OP realizes how controlling and domineering his ideals appear.
Both the saint and fanatic believe in the same thing; that their work is making the world a better place, all in their own perfection.

So tell me, oh ye defender of freedom and liberty, are you a saint or a fanatic? How cruel it is when we're left with nothing else but to choose between illusions of freedom.

Sheena Iyengar: The art of choosing
Sheena Iyengar studies how we make choices -- and how we feel about the choices we make. At TEDGlobal, she talks about both trivial choices (Coke v. Pepsi) and profound ones, and shares her groundbreaking research that has uncovered some surprising attitudes about our decisions.

Americans tend to believe that they've reached some sort of pinnacle in the way they practice choice. They think that choice, as seen through the American lens best fulfills an innate and universal desire for choice in all humans. Unfortunately, these beliefs are based on assumptions that don't always hold true in many countries, in many cultures. At times they don't even hold true at America's own borders.


No decent man is any one thing.... Thats all I have to say to you.
No, that's all you have to say to yourself, "decent man". All in your own perfection.
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Posted 1/17/13
Looks like I screwed up and fed a troll...
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Posted 1/17/13 , edited 1/17/13

longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:If their psychological states are liable to change, then why can't we change them for the better?


What if they relapse?


The process will be thoroughly tested to ensure there are no relapses.





Why wouldn't they want to be happy?


Maybe they are happy enough as it is without being forced into a programme which assumes that they will be criminals.


They cannot be happy, or else they would not feel the need to commit a severe crime. We need to show them that their destructive tendencies are not a part of who they truly are, and they will finally be able to pursue happiness once they are able to move past these self-destructive thoughts.





Name one person


Lyle and Erik Menendez


No, Lyle and Erik Menendez had severe psychological issues that caused them to kill there parents.





CLarose wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

lordseth23 wrote:


Or we can try the ethical approach of eliminating the psychological conditions that are responsible for rape.


Or the even more ethical approach (and probably the only ethical approach) of not punishing people who have not yet commit a crime.

But, if you were ethical, you would never suggest such ideas in the first place, of segregating people based on potentiality, of forcing them into programmes they have not given their consent to, why not join me, and go the extra mile.

Lock everyone up for the potential to commit rap
e!




This is starting to sound kinda Hitler'esque....


It shouldn't be a surprise, since he believes that all people are inherently evil and should only live for economical purposes.
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Posted 1/17/13
If you can find "THE" answer you'll put thousands of psychiatrists out of business.
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Posted 1/17/13 , edited 1/17/13
I do not engage in the self destructive behavior that the OP lists. But when I was really down in my life, I couldn't study martial arts anymore, I started injuring myself through cutting. I would be sitting watching TV and after awhile my knife would come out and I would start poking and prodding.

However my friends saw this and had a make shift intervention. One of my friends helped me no end. He showed me scuba diving. And my self destructive behavior stopped.

I realized I needed that control in my life again. We live in a time where our only real choices are whole milk or 2% and the red Nikes or the black Reeboks. There is no real choice anymore. Things like martial arts, scuba, skydiving, and many more hobbies are "risky" hobbies. Its a choice. Your the one in control. Your the one making the choices. Your skills decide if you will be injured or not.

I had lost that choice. And I guess subconsciously my mind wanted that back. So when I got into another "risky" endeavour it all stopped.
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Posted 1/17/13 , edited 1/17/13

lordseth23 wrote:

The process will be thoroughly tested to ensure there are no relapses.


So, you demand the impossible to implement your little psychological reform programme.




They cannot be happy, or else they would not feel the need to commit a severe crime.


They haven't committed a severe crime.


We need to show them that their destructive tendencies are not a part of who they truly are,


We need to show them that they are inferior beings at the moment, and must be forced into programmes dedicated to 'correcting them' for the potential to commit crimes. We need to show them that they should, under Lordseth23's wise leadership, subsume themselves to his vision of society, their psychological states, their personality, etc. - for, he is wise as to what is best for everyone.

Hence, I proclaim a new age, lead by the glorious Divus Lordseth23ius- a saturnian age, a new age ruled by the principles of best of goddess, Atë, daughter to Eris and Aegis-bearing Zeus!


and they will finally be able to pursue happiness once they are able to move past these self-destructive thoughts.


And they will finally be able to live as nice, happy citizens after the menticide, and everyone will rejoice at having been punished for a crime they have not commit, undergoing psychological reforms they didn't want, to curb a percieved tendency of theirs to be rapists, murders, serial killers, arsons, etc.




No, Lyle and Erik Menendez had severe psychological issues that caused them to kill there parents.


Here goes Lordseth23's circular reasoning- they murdered their parents, they must have psychological issues because only a person with severe psychological issues would murder their parents.

When, in fact, Lyle and Erik Menendez were both perfectly sane (or at least not plagued by any severe psychological issues), and merely murdered their parents because their parents were fed up with their spendthrift, idling ways, and may have written them off their will, with all associated cost attached.





It shouldn't be a surprise, since he believes that all people are inherently evil and should only live for economical purposes.


Hitler does not believe people were inherently evil and should only be tools of economy. He believed that German society was tainted by perceived evil influences (Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, people of inferior blood, communists, mentally handicapped), and sought to get rid of them to restore Germany to this pure Aryan thing. You really show your ignorance in almost every field.
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Posted 1/17/13

longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

The process will be thoroughly tested to ensure there are no relapses.


So, you demand the impossible to implement your little psychological reform programme.


How is it impossible?





They cannot be happy, or else they would not feel the need to commit a severe crime.


They haven't committed a severe crime.


So?




and they will finally be able to pursue happiness once they are able to move past these self-destructive thoughts.


And they will finally be able to live as nice, happy citizens after the menticide, and everyone will rejoice at having been punished for a crime they have not commit, undergoing psychological reforms they didn't want, to curb a percieved tendency of theirs to be rapists, murders, serial killers, arsons, etc.


Exactly.





No, Lyle and Erik Menendez had severe psychological issues that caused them to kill there parents.


Here goes Lordseth23's circular reasoning- they murdered their parents, they must have psychological issues because only a person with severe psychological issues would murder their parents.

When, in fact, Lyle and Erik Menendez were both perfectly sane (or at least not plagued by any severe psychological issues), and merely murdered their parents because their parents were fed up with their spendthrift, idling ways, and may have written them off their will, with all associated cost attached.


They may have been sane, but they still had severe psychological issues that caused them to murder their parents.






It shouldn't be a surprise, since he believes that all people are inherently evil and should only live for economical purposes.


Hitler does not believe people were inherently evil and should only be tools of economy. He believed that German society was tainted by perceived evil influences (Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, people of inferior blood, communists, mentally handicapped), and sought to get rid of them to restore Germany to this pure Aryan thing. You really show your ignorance in almost every field.


So that would make you worse than Hitler. Congrats, I now pronounce you the third antichrist of Nostradamus's predictions as you follow in the footsteps of Napoleon and Hitler.
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Posted 1/17/13
Lordseth23

Have you ever read the story called Harrison Bergeron. I think the society you wish would be similar in execution.
Posted 1/17/13

WildTyger wrote:

Lordseth23

Have you ever read the story called Harrison Bergeron. I think the society you wish would be similar in execution.
Whatever happened to your own rule here?

WildTyger wrote:


You misunderstand many things.

1. If nation-states are fiction then so is the idea of a social contract. You cannot separate the two concepts.

2. living as one culture is different from what we do now right? That's a different cultural practice.
I'll express the Idea using a mathematical expression.
Current world is A.
Your goal is B.
A=/=B ,therefore A and B are not the same, they are different.

3. There is no such thing as a better culture. You may feel more comfortable or happier in one versus the other, but it is impossible to say one is better because that requires objectivity. No one can be 100% objective about culture because you are influence by your own cultural views and morals. .

4. I am very empathetic towards others. Keep in mind we are only having an internet discussion and you don't actually know me.

5. When you make a claim it is up to you to back it up if challenged. Its bad form in a discussion to tell someone to go read a book to prove your point.

6. I have no desire to make others feel inhuman. I can't control the feelings of others, so I do not concern myself with them (unless failing to do so would inconvenience me somehow).

I feel our disagreement may lie in the fact that I approach this issue from a detached anthropological point of view. I believe you are approaching the issue from a more humanistic point of view. If that is the case I don't think you will understand my stance on the issue.
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Posted 1/17/13

lordseth23 wrote:How is it impossible?


You demand a system whereby we permanently change and fix a man's psychological state. Since we agree on the initial premise that a person's psychological state alters or can be altered by an external agent, it would therefore follow from this premise that such permanence would be impossible, as such, we can only opt for the next best thing to menticide, to imprison all people, as each person is, with respect to other specimens of humanity, a being equally endowed with the capacity to commit a crime, only tempered by strength, wit, incentive, and psychology.




So?


They didn't have any need to commit a severe crime. Your argument, that they can't be happy if they found a need to commit a severe crime, simply doesn't follow if these hypotheticals didn't commit a severe crime in the first place.



Exactly.


Exactly, which is why I propose that you should be stripped of all rights, be forced into a programme to have your thoughts altered, and be separated from society until you have a proper appreciation of the Presumption of Innocence, Civil Rights and Equal Rights afforded to all Citizens, Basic Ethics, Common Sense, and Human Kindness.




They may have been sane, but they still had severe psychological issues that caused them to murder their parents.


Not only is that unfounded, but that they have 'severe psychological issues' is, at best, laughable, when we realise that 'being greedy and spoiled children of an ultra-rich family' is not a 'severe psychological issue'.





So that would make you worse than Hitler. Congrats, I now pronounce you the third antichrist of Nostradamus's predictions as you follow in the footsteps of Napoleon and Hitler.


No, my child, you mistake me, for I am not the Anti-Christ, but the second coming of Christ!

Lo, come here, son, and let me touch your head, for, as the lepers, I shall cure you! I shall drive the demons of stupidity thence from thy skull! As Lazarus was born again beneath my hand, so two shall you be born again, from the mental death and privation of wit, to the life everlasting, and to reasonable intelligence!
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Posted 1/18/13 , edited 1/18/13

longfenglim wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:How is it impossible?


You demand a system whereby we permanently change and fix a man's psychological state. Since we agree on the initial premise that a person's psychological state alters or can be altered by an external agent, it would therefore follow from this premise that such permanence would be impossible, as such, we can only opt for the next best thing to menticide, to imprison all people, as each person is, with respect to other specimens of humanity, a being equally endowed with the capacity to commit a crime, only tempered by strength, wit, incentive, and psychology.


How would the permanence be impossible if they have the knowledge to make it permanent?





So?


They didn't have any need to commit a severe crime. Your argument, that they can't be happy if they found a need to commit a severe crime, simply doesn't follow if these hypotheticals didn't commit a severe crime in the first place.


But they have the possibility to commit a severe crime, which is why we need to make them happy so they never have the chance to do so.







They may have been sane, but they still had severe psychological issues that caused them to murder their parents.


Not only is that unfounded, but that they have 'severe psychological issues' is, at best, laughable, when we realise that 'being greedy and spoiled children of an ultra-rich family' is not a 'severe psychological issue'.


I never claimed that 'being greedy and spoiled children of an ultra-rich family' was the severe psychological issue. There was something else in their psyche that caused them to murder their parents.





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Posted 1/18/13

longfenglim wrote:

No, my child, you mistake me, for I am not the Anti-Christ, but the second coming of Christ!

Lo, come here, son, and let me touch your head, for, as the lepers, I shall cure you! I shall drive the demons of stupidity thence from thy skull! As Lazarus was born again beneath my hand, so two shall you be born again, from the mental death and privation of wit, to the life everlasting, and to reasonable intelligence!


Nice typo you have there, nincompoop.
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