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Posted 6/19/13 , edited 6/19/13

Arsenette wrote:



Taichi actually explained it to Komano way back in Season 1 (though he didn't call it that). The like sounded cards, provided they are all on the same side as the correct card can all be taken out in a row (obviously before your opponent) without it constituting a fault. So for example if there are 3 cards all sounding the same (like Chiha, Chigiri, Chigirio) are all on the same side (meaning that the correct card itself is on the same side as all the other "like" cards (in his side or on the opponents side) you can swipe them all out of the way provided your opponent didn't get the correct card in the time you took out the 2-3 cards. It only works if all are on the same side. If the correct card was on his side but took out the other cards on her side then it's a fault. Does that make sense? So with Shinobu's match he took out 2 cards that sounded the same on her side and on Nishida's match he managed to take out 3 of those like cards on his side before any of them could react. It's good for those 2-3 syllable cards because all you have to do is pounce on the FIRST syllable while your opponent is waiting for the other syllables to react to the correct card. Takes an incredible amount of skill and speed to pull that off. The fact that he managed to do that on Shinobu to her disbelief is exciting


Thanks for the explanation!

And to add to what u said, according to this Chihayafuru Wiki site (http://chihayafuru.wikia.com/wiki/Hyakunin_Isshu_Karuta), it seems they describe the "Cross Hand" (Watari-te) technique as when a player flicks in two directions. Kinda like this gif:
But what Arata did against Porky though, it seems like he swiped 3 times though to knock those 3 cards away as u had mentioned.

This makes me wonder now how many times u can swipe your hands back and forth to knock away all the cards from a territory. I mean, couldn't u literally swipe all the cards from a territory if u wanted to without being penalized so long as the card read is on that same territory? Maybe I missed it, but I don't think I saw anything in the rules about that.
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Posted 6/19/13
From my understanding:

As long as the cards swiped(touched) are on the same side it does not matter, as long as the correct card is also touched. If you also hit a card on the other side then that would be considered a fault. With a fault the opponent would be able to send a card to your side.


For it to be effective requires someone with an extremely fast and accurate swing since they put themselves at risk of committing a fault if the opponent takes the correct card.

A sweep uses the same logic but simplifies it by grouping like sounding cards together so they can be hit at the same time.

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Posted 6/19/13
As far as I understand, you can hit as many cards you want on the same side as long as you take the appropriate card. Or so it seems when that one girly-guy played from the other high school (you know, super-aggressive style). Am I right?
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Posted 6/20/13

suikojay wrote:
Thanks for the explanation!

And to add to what u said, according to this Chihayafuru Wiki site (http://chihayafuru.wikia.com/wiki/Hyakunin_Isshu_Karuta), it seems they describe the "Cross Hand" (Watari-te) technique as when a player flicks in two directions. Kinda like this gif:
But what Arata did against Porky though, it seems like he swiped 3 times though to knock those 3 cards away as u had mentioned.

This makes me wonder now how many times u can swipe your hands back and forth to knock away all the cards from a territory. I mean, couldn't u literally swipe all the cards from a territory if u wanted to without being penalized so long as the card read is on that same territory? Maybe I missed it, but I don't think I saw anything in the rules about that.


Thanks for that gif!

Yeah. Call me nerdy to want to know the rules of the game better tehhehehehe. Mark of a good anime if they get you thinking of the inner workings of the games. And yes you could theoretically swipe more cards (like the "The" cards (I think they are 12 of those?)) if they are all on the same side as the correct one being called. But that would mean that the other player reaaaaally sucks.. Now you can blow them all out of the way like Chihaya did on her match with Taichi back in elementary school. She literally head dove into the pile and grabbed the card and her body knocked everything out of the way. Now granted that specifically isn't allowed but as long as the proper card was in the pile of cards that was swept out of the way (before the opponent touches it) then it's all legit. It has to be from the correct side though. You couldn't just sweep all the stuff on your right hand if it included one card from the "wrong" side. However, that would not be called a cross like what Arata did and what Taichi perfectly described back in Season 1.


checkm821 wrote:

From my understanding:

As long as the cards swiped(touched) are on the same side it does not matter, as long as the correct card is also touched. If you also hit a card on the other side then that would be considered a fault. With a fault the opponent would be able to send a card to your side.

For it to be effective requires someone with an extremely fast and accurate swing since they put themselves at risk of committing a fault if the opponent takes the correct card.

A sweep uses the same logic but simplifies it by grouping like sounding cards together so they can be hit at the same time.


A good example of a sweep was Komano's match with Kanna back in Season 1. Towards the end of the match he had ALL of his cards on one side and as the reader called out one in his pile he swept the whole lot of them out of the way. They have to be grouped together for this to work and the "correct" card has to be called or it would constitute a fault. Like for example if the card called was a "dead" card or if the card called was actually on the opposite side of the sweep.


TAO_Arecibo wrote:

As far as I understand, you can hit as many cards you want on the same side as long as you take the appropriate card. Or so it seems when that one girly-guy played from the other high school (you know, super-aggressive style). Am I right?


The girl from Megume's school you mean? Keiko Yuube? (had to look that up )
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Posted 6/20/13
The wiki mentions there are 'circumstances when the cross is legal' but I'd be interested in knowing what those are. I don't see how you can take two swipes and remain legal even if your opponent doesn't touch the right card. Sounds off to me... guess I need to find a real rulebook.
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Posted 6/20/13 , edited 6/20/13

hpulley wrote:

The wiki mentions there are 'circumstances when the cross is legal' but I'd be interested in knowing what those are. I don't see how you can take two swipes and remain legal even if your opponent doesn't touch the right card. Sounds off to me... guess I need to find a real rulebook.


The cross would be illegal if you touched the "like" card on the wrong side before touching the right card. Example: "Chihayafuru" is called and it's on Shinobu's side but Arata first touched Chigiri first on HIS side before touching Chihaya on Shinobu's side. Make sense? ALL cards touched MUST be on the correct side (meaning the card that is called). Randomly taking out all the like cards regardless of location is illegal. Taking out the like cards on the correct side is. Crossing that plain (your side/their side) is the point of illegality.
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Posted 6/20/13

Arsenette wrote:


hpulley wrote:

The wiki mentions there are 'circumstances when the cross is legal' but I'd be interested in knowing what those are. I don't see how you can take two swipes and remain legal even if your opponent doesn't touch the right card. Sounds off to me... guess I need to find a real rulebook.


The cross would be illegal if you touched the "like" card on the wrong side before touching the right card. Example: "Chihayafuru" is called and it's on Shinobu's side but Arata first touched Chigiri first on HIS side before touching Chihaya on Shinobu's side. Make sense? ALL cards touched MUST be on the correct side (meaning the card that is called). Randomly taking out all the like cards regardless of location is illegal. Taking out the like cards on the correct side is. Crossing that plain (your side/their side) is the point of illegality.

Understood but it still seems odd to let people take multiple swipes, seems more right to me to allow just one swipe but the rules are the rules. It sounds dangerous to do unless all the cards are on one side, otherwise if you pick the wrong side first you're screwed: they can get the card and you will also commit a foul leading to wins by 27 cards like Arata has managed with extras from the fouls.
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Posted 6/20/13 , edited 6/20/13

hpulley wrote:
Understood but it still seems odd to let people take multiple swipes, seems more right to me to allow just one swipe but the rules are the rules. It sounds dangerous to do unless all the cards are on one side, otherwise if you pick the wrong side first you're screwed: they can get the card and you will also commit a foul leading to wins by 27 cards like Arata has managed with extras from the fouls.


That is true, however the fact that Arata was able to do a Cross on Shinobu was the reason everyone lost their marbles. The look on the director's face was priceless with a "omg I've seen this crap before.. uuuuuugh I was on the receiving end of that.." Besides.. taking 2-3 swipes in the same field in the time your opponent didn't get to the 1st card is no different than someone hand sweeping 10 cards out of the way with no accuracy. Personally the cross looks demoralizing to an opponent.. GOD I can't wait until tomorrow to see the conclusion of Arata/Shinobu's match. Far more interesting seeing this than watching Suo's one-sided destruction in the master match.

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Posted 6/20/13
I know the outcome but am also looking forward to it.

And I just realized that Be Love is semi-monthly. Is Chihayafuru in it every month? I ordered a few to pad an order so I guess I'll find out. So much for me saying I won't get Be Love! One of these days I will really need to consolidate on what to get... those telephone book sized books are getting silly for storage. I think most Japanese people just pitch them but I'm silly and have kept years worth of the only one I used to buy for years before I expanded my horizons, just in case...
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Posted 6/20/13 , edited 6/20/13
Since you guys got deep into the discussion of the taking multiple cards, from what I gathered with my rudimentary knowledge of the game and things I've gathered from watching. It sounds as though while it is perfectly legal to do it is considered bad manners or bad form, much like moving too many cards at once. It's similar to moving your remaining cards into one area and swiping everything in regards to it being a perfectly viable strategy but a little shady. The same was said about purposely splitting the cards in the team game so all that had to do was to defend.

In Arata's case someone mentioned that he and his grandfather play "nasty" karuta or something of that nature. They don't break the rules but it takes talent to be able to swipe out all the like syllable cards so quickly and assuming he ends up hitting the correct one and only uses one hand there isn't any technical fault with it. At least that's how I understand it.
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Posted 6/20/13

tommythecat wrote:

Since you guys got deep into the discussion of the taking multiple cards, from what I gathered with my rudimentary knowledge of the game and things I've gathered from watching. It sounds as though while it is perfectly legal to do it is considered bad manners or bad form, much like moving too many cards at once. It's similar to moving your remaining cards into one area and swiping everything in regards to it being a perfectly viable strategy but a little shady. The same was said about purposely splitting the cards in the team game so all that had to do was to defend.

In Arata's case someone mentioned that he and his grandfather play "nasty" karuta or something of that nature. They don't break the rules but it takes talent to be able to swipe out all the like syllable cards so quickly and assuming he ends up hitting the correct one and only uses one hand there isn't any technical fault with it. At least that's how I understand it.


That's an interesting point about the translated word "nasty" to explain the style and implications on perceived manners. I hadn't thought of that! I viewed it slightly differently. Like for example the director's description of seeing that style and he cringed to me felt more like reliving a bad memory of being utterly humiliated.. (i.e. smoked in a match) Meaning it was so precise, so quick, so deliberate and so finely executed that it looked like a surgical tactical nuke. Something he couldn't possibly defend against. Something that left such an impression that it was done so deliberate and "good" that it made your jaw drop. That's what I meant by "demoralizing your enemy". Your point though does raise a good point on whether it also could have meant bad manners like synching cards in a team match or moving a lot of cards in a match at once basically putting your opponent at a particular disadvantage. I see it not being the same thing but it's a good argument either way. I don't know the etiquette with it but it seems (at least from my perspective) that it was more amazement and awe that it was done to the queen rather than "oh.. ew.. he cheats" type of reaction. Interesting though. I'll talk to my hubby and see what his reaction is to it
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Posted 6/21/13
Teheheheheh I had a conversation with him this morning about it. I narrowed it down to one question: "Is it considered bad etiquette". He didn't see it that way. He gave me an analogy. It's a hockey reference. "Say you put a rookie goalie on one end.. and then put Wayne Gretzky on a one on one breakaway".. Wayne is not going to show mercy. (Basketball reference from me "rookie vs. Michael Jordan in his prime". Though hubby hates basketball so that's my analogy LOL). He then brought it to the first time Arata played Chihaya.. he showed no mercy. Didn't drop his guard. He didn't take it easy to let her win a few. Against Nishida.. same thing.. adapted to the style and attacked the style once he had a few rounds to ascertain what methodology he used. He did the same with Shinobu. The phrase he came up with was "merciless". But he made sure to delineate "that's not bad manners or shady". It's uncompromising and merciless. So that's his definition of the translated word "nasty" which btw was the exact same reaction I had. Still though, a good discussion since I hadn't thought of that angle.

On that front.. we got a few hours until it airs on CR.. I'm so excited! I'm curious how Shinobu will change her game though.. wasn't it something like 4 cards in and she told the cards she was going to preference some now that she noticed Arata was still as good as she thought he was? I've never seen her change her game.. ever..
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Posted 6/21/13
That's an interesting discussion you guys have on the word "nasty." My take on it: Nasty is synonymous to unpleasant. I'm guessing that's the feeling you get when you play against Arata. He basically crushes your confidence and makes you become uneasy. Remember there was a scene where the Eternal Meijin/his grandfather telling Arata to destroy the strength of the opponent. If he does just that with his current game play, nasty is one word to describe it then. Although there are better word choices, but it's not necessarily wrong.

I completely spoiled myself by reading the manga the other day. I actually caught up to the recent chapter. Anyway, I just have to express how chapter 104-105 excited me so much that I was spazzing for a good 10 minutes. Not going to reveal what happens but I seriously can't wait for those chapters to get animated.
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Posted 6/21/13

observantzani wrote:

That's an interesting discussion you guys have on the word "nasty." My take on it: Nasty is synonymous to unpleasant. I'm guessing that's the feeling you get when you play against Arata. He basically crushes your confidence and makes you become uneasy. Remember there was a scene where the Eternal Meijin/his grandfather telling Arata to destroy the strength of the opponent. If he does just that with his current game play, nasty is one word to describe it then. Although there are better word choices, but it's not necessarily wrong.


That's my take on it as well, though I'm not sure there is a better word to describe it.

Here's another way to look at it. I recently watched "Million Dollar Baby". Great film, by the way. On the wall, in the gym, was this sign: "Winners are simply willing to do what Losers won't." Arata's gameplay isn't about playing nice. It's about being skilled, knowing all the rules, and doing what it takes to win against any opponent. He's exactly the kind of opponent you don't want to play against because, if you are any good at all, it will be a battle; nasty in other words.
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Posted 6/21/13 , edited 6/21/13
6 hours to go.... ehem.. anyway still an interesting conversation. i wonder what the actual Japanese word that was used though. Might share more insight in the meaning. I still don't take it as a "shady" or "barely legal" move though. A cross is a perfectly valid move.. it's just that easily executed. Unlike the sweep of 10 cards that Komano did against Kanna that was barely legal and people rooted against him because of it. Goooooooood i can't wait until 3pm.. then I wait until 5pm so hubby and I can see it together lol. So tempted to cheat today..

Oh and another thing. Who was it that called Arata a Sadist? My kingdom for a match between Arata and Sudo.. LOL!!!!!!!!!
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