First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply Evangelion 3.0? Opinions?
47617 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / Tiphares
Offline
Posted 1/17/13 , edited 1/17/13

neeka-desu wrote:

Right. I noticed that too. Lol, which was why I was saying that she's matured but is still immature :D


Maya Ibuki though, is all rage and serious mode now. No more innocent understudy. One thing I found interesting, Mari mentions Yui Ayanami's name during her fight scene with Eva Mark.09 and Rei Ayanami. I wonder. She could have accessed confidential information sometime over the course of those 14 years and learned a whole deal - I'm sure she did, but the fact that she said she liked Yui better than Rei throws me off. The only possibility is that Mari met Yui sometime in the past. Also, no word on Asuka's mother still, or really anything about Mari. I feel Mari is going to have a big role in 4.0.
18369 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F / California
Offline
Posted 1/17/13
That's funny because my boyfriend pointed that out to me too when we watched it together! Mari has always been mysterious because they never explained anything about her. I mean, she just like shows up without an explanation of who she is. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she did access all the information by herself. If she had met Yui, it could mean that she has a way bigger role than most of the main characters have. Even though they did show her a lot more in 2.0 I'm hoping they show even more of her in 4.0 as well. I mean, I love Maaya Sakamoto too >.< Either way, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It might be another couple years till the next movie is out.
47617 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / Tiphares
Offline
Posted 1/17/13 , edited 1/17/13

neeka-desu wrote:

That's funny because my boyfriend pointed that out to me too when we watched it together! Mari has always been mysterious because they never explained anything about her. I mean, she just like shows up without an explanation of who she is. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she did access all the information by herself. If she had met Yui, it could mean that she has a way bigger role than most of the main characters have. Even though they did show her a lot more in 2.0 I'm hoping they show even more of her in 4.0 as well. I mean, I love Maaya Sakamoto too >.< Either way, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It might be another couple years till the next movie is out.


I believe they said only in a year or two that 4.0 would be released. Since they were going to originally premiere 3.0 and 4.0 together they probably have most of the groundwork already done for it. I'm curious about the differences in 3.0 and 3.33 which will most likely happen. The DVD/Bluray release of 2.22 had 6 new scenes added and 19 modified scenes from the theatrical release of 2.0, so I'm sure 3.0 and 3.33 will have some noticeable differences.
18369 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F / California
Offline
Posted 1/17/13

Shrapnel893 wrote:


neeka-desu wrote:

That's funny because my boyfriend pointed that out to me too when we watched it together! Mari has always been mysterious because they never explained anything about her. I mean, she just like shows up without an explanation of who she is. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she did access all the information by herself. If she had met Yui, it could mean that she has a way bigger role than most of the main characters have. Even though they did show her a lot more in 2.0 I'm hoping they show even more of her in 4.0 as well. I mean, I love Maaya Sakamoto too >.< Either way, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. It might be another couple years till the next movie is out.


I believe they said only in a year or two that 4.0 would be released. Since they were going to originally premiere 3.0 and 4.0 together they probably have most of the groundwork already done for it. I'm curious about the differences in 3.0 and 3.33 which will most likely happen. The DVD/Bluray release of 2.22 had 6 new scenes added and 19 modified scenes from the theatrical release of 2.0, so I'm sure 3.0 and 3.33 will have some noticeable differences.


Yes, I hope so too!! That way I can get a little more insight on some things, lol.
3058 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/17/13
3.0 was crap. No real action, no real plot development. Just two dudes bonding in an abandoned headquarters. It didn't even attempt to explain what happened in the 14 year gap that made every single character seem like a stuck up cunt. 1.0 was good because it stuck with the original story. 2.0 was good was because it explored alternative plot lines. 3.0 was crap because it did nothing but mess up the plot line and confuse the viewers.
47617 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / Tiphares
Offline
Posted 1/17/13 , edited 1/17/13

tryceo wrote:

3.0 was crap. No real action, no real plot development. Just two dudes bonding in an abandoned headquarters. It didn't even attempt to explain what happened in the 14 year gap that made every single character seem like a stuck up cunt. 1.0 was good because it stuck with the original story. 2.0 was good was because it explored alternative plot lines. 3.0 was crap because it did nothing but mess up the plot line and confuse the viewers.


Were you confused about 3.0? What other reasons do you have to call it crap, if I may ask? Rebuild is a whole new story, a whole new spin on Evangelion. It's in its own universe, the plot line didn't get messed up. I believe the whole point of not explaining nearly anything in that 14 year time gap was exactly as it sounds. Not to tell you anything. Hopefully 4.0 will clear most things up.
3058 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/17/13
Let's begin with the most obvious problem: Everyone in that movie was retarded.

It would have taken maybe 30 seconds to explain to Shinji what happened and current situation with NERV/Willie. But no one says anything. Misato treats Shinji, who just lost 14 year of his life stuck in a tomb of sorts, as if he knew everything that had happened. Misato, who cheered Shinji on at the end of 2.0, was now suddenly irrationally angry at him, for no reason given. Asuka, who was attracted to Shinji in 2.0, becomes a complete cunt towards him. Any human being with half a brain could and would understand Shinji and what he had to go through. No one in the movie, with the exception of Koworu, even attempts to understand Shinji's feelings or explain to him the current situation. It's completely logic defying.

That's not even the worst. The worst thing is that nothing happened in the movie. Seriously, nothing that even remotely furthered the storyline from 2.0. No idea about where Rei II went. No further character development for Mari, Asuka, or Misato (except the fact that they've all turned into complete bitches). Random appearance of two Spears of Longinus, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Half of the movie was spend bonding with Koworu, and then he just dies for no logical reason (How hard could it be to just throw the neck thing away?). It was a like a filler movie. You could watch Final without watching 3.0, and it would still make sense.
18369 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F / California
Offline
Posted 1/17/13

Shrapnel893 wrote:


tryceo wrote:

3.0 was crap. No real action, no real plot development. Just two dudes bonding in an abandoned headquarters. It didn't even attempt to explain what happened in the 14 year gap that made every single character seem like a stuck up cunt. 1.0 was good because it stuck with the original story. 2.0 was good was because it explored alternative plot lines. 3.0 was crap because it did nothing but mess up the plot line and confuse the viewers.


Were you confused about 3.0? What other reasons do you have to call it crap, if I may ask? Rebuild is a whole new story, a whole new spin on Evangelion. It's in its own universe, the plot line didn't get messed up. I believe the whole point of not explaining nearly anything in that 14 year time gap was exactly as it sounds. Not to tell you anything. Hopefully 4.0 will clear most things up.


Well, you don't have to call it crap and the characters the 'c' word. Especially when you had no real explanation as to why.
I agree with Shrapnel, it has nothing to do with the anime series (even though I couldn't help but compare to it a little too) but it's a whole new universe. I believe 3.0 was made just to lead us up to 4.0. Maybe if you'd watch it again with a different mind set you'll understand it better or at least respect for it.
18369 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / F / California
Offline
Posted 1/17/13

tryceo wrote:

Let's begin with the most obvious problem: Everyone in that movie was retarded.

It would have taken maybe 30 seconds to explain to Shinji what happened and current situation with NERV/Willie. But no one says anything. Misato treats Shinji, who just lost 14 year of his life stuck in a tomb of sorts, as if he knew everything that had happened. Misato, who cheered Shinji on at the end of 2.0, was now suddenly irrationally angry at him, for no reason given. Asuka, who was attracted to Shinji in 2.0, becomes a complete cunt towards him. Any human being with half a brain could and would understand Shinji and what he had to go through. No one in the movie, with the exception of Koworu, even attempts to understand Shinji's feelings or explain to him the current situation. It's completely logic defying.

That's not even the worst. The worst thing is that nothing happened in the movie. Seriously, nothing that even remotely furthered the storyline from 2.0. No idea about where Rei II went. No further character development for Mari, Asuka, or Misato (except the fact that they've all turned into complete bitches). Random appearance of two Spears of Longinus, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Half of the movie was spend bonding with Koworu, and then he just dies for no logical reason (How hard could it be to just throw the neck thing away?). It was a like a filler movie. You could watch Final without watching 3.0, and it would still make sense.


I agree that maybe they could have shown less of Shinji moping around, but it was probably essential for the movie.
Misato does explain why. Not everyone knew that saving Rei was gonna be a catalyst for the third impact. Plus Mistao was always curious as to what NERV was really doing as you can see from 2.0. So, it's no surprise going all Anti-NERV after everything she witnessed. Asuka is only acting that why cause that's her personality just 14 years more developed. Plus, she still had a lot of lingering feelings that she had to deal with herself then. Mari and Rei II are not explained on purpose. The other spear is called Cassisus. Kaworu gets tricked by SEELE at the end and realizes the only way to get out of it was for him to die because he became an angel.
47617 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / Tiphares
Offline
Posted 1/18/13 , edited 2/3/13

neeka-desu wrote:



Basically everything neeka-desu said. Most of the workers at Wille are probably all younger than Shinji, Asuka, Misato, Ritsuko, Maya, Mari, and the others on the previous NERV staff. 14 years ago most were just little kids and after Shinji unwittingly instigated Third Impact they had to live in a world populated by even less people and practically every life-bearing environment destroyed. It doesn't really surprise me that they'd resent him. It doesn't surprise me that Shinji felt he was a useless waste of space after treatment like that from practically everyone he previously knew before. Remember, for him, its at the most only been a couple of days since the end of 2.0. For everyone else its been 14 years. I would also have to agree of no further character development from the main cast to an extent, but I also believe all of that is under the surface. For example, Misato is probably haunted by guilt and Asuka is battling her repressed feelings towards Shinji, Mari is still Mari, and this new Rei is basically back to square 1. Asuka commented how this Rei is from an early batch of Ayanami clones but if there's any significance to that it hasn't been shown. Also, Asuka uses the term Lilin, instead of humans, and again any significance to that has yet to be shown. Kaworu had to die because he was the First and Last Angel, he said it himself. Fourth Impact would only stop if the catalyst was stopped and that happened to be mainly Kaworu with Shinji as a back-up measure. The whole point Gendo and Fuyutsuki lead them to believe the Spears would prevent Fourth Impact was so they would actually start it. As for the two spears, one is the Lance of Longinus and the other is probably the Lance of Cassius (I believe the new Lance seen in 2.0). Kaworu believed both were down there, which they probably were at some point, but breaching Central Dogma could have triggered something to turn them both into Lances of Longinus. In the flashback of Misato and Second Impact there were four Lances of Longinus present wielded by the Adam-like Angels. They tell you where Rei II went, she's still inside Eva Unit 01 with Yui Ikari. It's probably a similar state of existence like Shinji had when he got sucked into Leliel (12th Angel) in ep 16 and after Eva Unit 01 consumed Zeruel's (14th Angel) S2 Engine and he was stuck inside an Inner Universe dimension inside Unit 01 in ep 20 of the TV series. I think what they meant to do was give you a seemingly steady new plot in 1.0 and 2.0 then throw everything at you incoherently in 3.0. If you watch Final without watching 3.0 that would be taking away from the experience plus I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make sense. At the very least some significant information would be missing.

19047 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 1/20/13
Just something I think people are missing... and this is my speculation.

Misato and others hate Shinji because he is a clone. It's painful for them to see someone they love back but not original. So they treat him like the lab rat he is. At the beginning you can hear doc say 'dental scarring recreated perfectly.'

I think they need Shinji to either lure NERV out, or to possibly pilot EVA aka the power of their new ship.

47617 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / Tiphares
Offline
Posted 1/20/13 , edited 1/21/13

perryc07 wrote:

Just something I think people are missing... and this is my speculation.

Misato and others hate Shinji because he is a clone. It's painful for them to see someone they love back but not original. So they treat him like the lab rat he is. At the beginning you can hear doc say 'dental scarring recreated perfectly.'

I think they need Shinji to either lure NERV out, or to possibly pilot EVA aka the power of their new ship.



That's a possibility, but even so he's still the same Shinji as before even if he is a clone. He wasn't dead over the course of those 14 years, but he had no physical body for his soul to be attached to either. They didn't need Shinji anymore, it was clearly stated. Of course, that's most likely just an excuse to keep him away from an Eva - and specifically Eva Unit 01 - ever again. They don't want to risk the possibility of a Fourth Impact if he pilots one again, which didn't do them any good in the end.
19 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M
Offline
Posted 2/17/13 , edited 2/17/13
My problem with the movie is not so much the 14-year jump, but the way brief, expository dialogue is used to explain the major events that happened during that time.

It is hinted that A LOT must have happened in the meantime, and we as audience as well as Shinji are mostly left in the dark about it. I know this was done intentionally, to make us feel as lost and confused as Shinji, but i think there is only so much you can put up with as a an audience (who wants to experience all that ALONG these characters that we've grown attached to....)

It reminds me a little bit of the Star Wars prequels in that regard ( please let me explain before you massacre me :D), where a lot of important incidents that were vital to the overall plot, were just talked about briefly by the characters to feed the viewer plain information in good faith he will care.
But IMO you actually have to whittness these things to a certain point and furthermore see the characters experiencing them to actually care about them.
If all this important stuff is just mentioned in one or two brief sentences, you just have to take their word for it, and IMO that's not good enough to get emotionally attached. I do recall that similar plot-jumps were used in Alias once, as well as in Lost, and if I recall correctly, that felt largly unsatisfying to their fanbases as well.

I know you can't really compare Evangelion to Star Wars or Lost or Alias, but to me it proves the point that huge time jumps in general are a very risky tool for story telling and especially when it comes to good dramaturgy - if not handled right. If I am just told (briefly and in some cases not at all) about the important things that happened in this huge time-gap, I get emotionally detached and stop caring.

And as I said above, I do understand why this was done intentionally - to make the viewer feel like Shinji does, and make him more of a "fish out of water" charater, and in that it succeeds - hands down. Everything he did in the previous movies is rendered meaningless, but to me that's just not very good story telling cause there's no real pay-off to what happened in 1.0 and 2.0. It seems like the story is moving in circles, and while that has allways been kind of an ongoing theme in the evangelion series, it's definetely not very satisfying. I wanted to care about the characters and events in 3.0, even tried to force myself to, but in the end I just couldn't at least not as much as I had hoped to. If they are actually going to "fix" these issues afterwards with 4.0, I guess I would be somewhat okay with that - I just don't see how they could do that without it feeling like an afterthought...

And just to be clear - I'm all for change and welcome a departure from the original series, so it's not a nostalgia-thing or anything. I just think they handled these departures quite poorly from a story-telling perspective, as in almost violently throwing them in your face without giving you even a brief moment to emotionally adapt to all of what is going on (the middle section of the movie with slower pacing obviously being the exception)

Anyways, from the scenes we saw in the credits-trailer in 2.0, it seems to me like some of the stuff that happened in these 14 years ( or at least what happened shortly after 2.0) would actually have been seen on screen in great detail if they would have gone with their original ideas as to how the story would progress. And then what happened in this final version of 3.0 maybe would have happened in the first half of the 4th movie, or something. But then they eventually realized that they couldn't fit that much stuff in the final movie AND have enough time left for a satisfying ending - and hence did the whole time-skip thing, started 3.0 from scratch and decided:


Well, at least that's how it seems to me, personnaly - 3.0 just felt rushed to me as far as how the story was told - then again, giving them the benefit of the doubt, with the movie being called "quickening" and setting up the final installment of the series, maybe that was Anno's intention all along, who knows :)
And maybe he suprises us all with some kind of genious dramaturgical master-strike, that justifies all this in retrospect - we'll just have to whait and see about that...

Finally, I do hope they explain A LOT of what went down in the time gap in the Final movie, but hopefully not just in a few lines of expository dialogue, but nice, elaborate flashbacks
47617 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / Tiphares
Offline
Posted 2/17/13

chris106 wrote:

My problem with the movie is not so much the 14-year jump, but the way brief, expository dialogue is used to explain the major events that happened during that time.

It is hinted that A LOT must have happened in the meantime, and we as audience as well as Shinji are mostly left in the dark about it. I know this was done intentionally, to make us feel as lost and confused as Shinji, but i think there is only so much you can put up with as a an audience (who wants to experience all that ALONG these characters that we've grown attached to....)

It reminds me a little bit of the Star Wars prequels in that regard ( please let me explain before you massacre me :D), where a lot of important incidents that were vital to the overall plot, were just talked about briefly by the characters to feed the viewer plain information in good faith he will care.
But IMO you actually have to whittness these things to a certain point and furthermore see the characters experiencing them to actually care about them.
If all this impotant stuff is just mentioned in one or two brief sentences, you just have to take the characters word for it, and IMO that's not good enough to get emotionally attached. I do recall that similar plot-jumps were used in Alias once, as well as in Lost, and if I recall correctly that felt largly very unsatisfactory to their fanbases as well.

I know you can't really compare Evangelion to Star Wars or Lost or Alias, but to me it proves the point that huge time jumps are in general a very risky tool for story telling and especially when it comes to a good dramaturgy - if not handled right. If I am just told (briefly and in some cases not at all) about the important things that happened in this huge time-gap, I get emotionally detached and stop caring.

And as I said above, I do understand why this was done intentionally - to make the viewer feel like Shinji and make him more of a "fish out of water" charater, and in that it succeeds, hands down. Everything he did in the previous movies is rendered meaningless, but to me that's just not very good story telling cause there's no real pay-off to to hat happened in 1.0 and 2.0. It seems like the story is moving in circles, and while that has allways been a theme in the evangelion series, it's definetely not very satisfying. I wanted to care about the characters and events in 3.0, even tried to force myself to, but in the end I just couldn't as much as I hoped to. If they fare going to "fix" this afterwards with 4.0, I guess I would be somewhat okay with that - I just don't see how they could possibly do that...

And I'm all for change and welcome a departure from the original series, so it's not a nostalgia-thing or anything. I just think they handled these differences quite poorly from a story-telling perspective in almost violently throwing them in your face without giving you even a brief moment to emotionally adapt to all of it.

From the scenes we saw in the credits-trailer in 2.0, it seems to me like all this stuff that happened in these 14 years ( or at least what happened shortly after 2.0) would have actually been seen on screen if they would have gone with their original ideas as to how the story would progress. And then what happened in this final version of 3.0 maybe would have happened in the first half of the 4th movie, or something. But then they eventually realized that they couldn't fit that much story in just two more movies and hence did the whole time-skip thing and started 3.0 from scratch.

Well, at least that's how it seems to me - 3.0 felt just rushed to me as far as how the story was told - then again, being called "quickening" and setting up the final installment of the series, maybe that was Anno's intention all along, who knows :)
And maybe he suprises us all with some kind of dramaturgical master-strike, that justifies this special kind story-tellling in 3.0 - we'll have to see about that...

Finally, I do hope they explain A LOT of what went down in the time gap in the Final movie, but hopefully not just in a few lines of expository dialogue, but noce, elaborate flashbacks ;)


I see what you mean. Not too sure on the flashbacks though.
19 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M
Offline
Posted 2/17/13 , edited 2/17/13

I see what you mean. Not too sure on the flashbacks though.


I was trying to be sarcastic, I sure as hell hope they don't do that, either.

Then again, how else will they explain the state this world is in? It sure can't be explained in a few sentences...?


Are we seriously left to asume what happened on our own? I'd argue that for people who have maybe yet to see the original series, it would be downright impossible to make any sense out of all this - and I can't imagine that this is what they were going for...
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.