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Do you think that the anime industry is dying?
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53 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
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Posted 1/21/13 , edited 1/21/13

rebuild_eva01 wrote:

Anime for 2012 -- more anime than any time in history!
Anime TV shows = 141
Anime Films = 41
Anime OVAs = 35________________________________________
Total = 217 Anime released in 2012
29 more releases than the year before = a 13% increase in Anime

...

Anime for 2006
TV shows = 151
Film = 31
OVAs = 30_____________________
Total = 212 anime released in 2006

You count 1 series = 1 movie = 1 OVA, but its not true ~ there are different amounts of work in a television series, a full length movie and an OVA.

Indeed, 1 series is not always equal to 1 series, 1 movie is not always equal to 1 movie, and 1 OVA is definitely not always equal to 1 OVA ~ different anime take different amounts of work to produce. There is a lot of difference between a series like FateStay/Zero and a series like K-On.

As far as the question, the anime industry in Japan has substantially declined from the 90's, but anime in Japan is the tip of the iceberg ~ it is the high cost, premium release end of a spectrum including manga, light novels, and visual novels. It is facing a long term decline due to the reduction in the number of young Japanese to become new manga / light novel / visual novel / anime fans. It has also faced the problem of the loss of several of its boom period sources of income, with TV advertising on most series being provided by the DVD distributor, and with DVD video rental stores declining as dramatically there as here in the US.

But it seems to have stabilized the ship for the medium term, in part due to developing new distribution channels, in part due to cutting costs by outsourcing routine animation tasks to China, Korea and Southeast Asia.

So while the anime industry in Japan is at risk over the long term, we seem likely to see it still in existence with a substantial stream of production when 2020 rolls around.

In the US, after the shake out in the anime industry, the decline of anime license Minimum Guarantees to more reasonable levels, the increase in numbers of titles that are released in relatively modest numbers that can be more easily sustained by the niche audience, and the opening up of cable Video on Demand and subscription internet streaming revenue sources seems to have resulted in a stabilization of the North American anime localization industry.


George_z wrote:

rebuild_eva01 wrote:Statistics.

It's interesting to see that indeed, and I for one don't see anime dying any time soon but the data does leave me with one big question.

How many of those titles were actually licensed and released in one form or another outside of Japan?


Actually, that is one thing that is climbing. US anime companies in, say, 2002 were releasing selections of series originally produced over the previous decade to home video. Much of the appealing back catalog has been picked over, so today it is far more common for series to be released to home video within two or three years of their original broadcast.

Add to that Sentai/Section23's aggressive licensing strategy, where they license the show first and then look at streaming popularity to decide which titles get the full-on, DVD/BD with a dub release, and which get a 3,000 unit, DVD-only, sub-only release, as they rebuild their catalog to get something appealing for a package deal with a company like Netflix or Amazon Prime, with licensing overhead costs shared between their home video release, their cable Video on Demand service, and streaming sublicensing so that their break-even on their low-end releases is lower than a home-video-only approach.

And as far as release in "any form", add to the aggressive home video licensing the fact that most series that are broadcast which are NOT picked up for home video release get direct streaming distribution, and we see a much bigger slice of the last year licensed than was ever the case for a single broadcast year during the anime boom.
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Posted 1/21/13
Well, im not sure if its dying, it hasnt even really begun here as such, they tried airing some dubbed shows on tv, but that was litterally horrible and they made series such as Shaman King into a baby version of that, the translations were horrible aswell.

For manga though its going okay, not all manga is here yet, but theres still quite abit.

The worst part about being from denmark is truely being limited in the amount of anime you can watch legally anywhere, even here on CR the selection is really poor compared to if i was in US.

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Posted 1/21/13
Well there has been too much fanserivce and less quality over the past 4-5 years IMO.

Shows like Mahoromatic had fanservice but I never thought of it as intruding on the series like I do with current shows.
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Posted 1/21/13 , edited 1/21/13

rebuild_eva01 wrote:
[
Wikipedia lists the anime released for 2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:2012_anime)

Anime for 2012 -- more anime than any time in history!
Anime TV shows = 141
Anime Films = 41
Anime OVAs = 35________________________________________
Total = 217 Anime released in 2012
29 more releases than the year before = a 13% increase in Anime

Anime for 2011 -- there was a Recession??
TV Shows = 117
Films = 37
OVAs = 34_____________________
Total = 188 anime released in 2011

Anime for 2010 -- the aftermath of the Recession
TV shows = 87
Films = 38
OVAs = 42_____________________
Total = 167 anime released in 2010

Anime for 2009 -- the Recession ended for the US
TV shows = 104
Film = 34
OVAs = 42_____________________
Total = 180 anime released in 2009

Anime for 2008 -- the Economy crashed
TV shows = 106
Films = 20
OVAs = 41_____________________
Total = 172 anime released in 2008

Anime for 2007 -- the Recession began in December 2007
TV shows = 123
Films = 37
OVAs = 50_____________________
Total = 210 anime released in 2007

Anime for 2006
TV shows = 151
Film = 31
OVAs = 30_____________________
Total = 212 anime released in 2006

Anime:
220 |..........:............:............:...........:...........:...........:............:..........
215 |..........:............:............:...........:...........:...........:...........O..........
210 |.........O.-.-.-.-.O.............:...........:...........:...........:......../...:...........
200 |..........:............:..\.........:...........:...........:...........:.../........:...........
190 |..........:............:....\.......:...........:...........:..........O...........:...........
185 |..........:............:......\.....:...........:...........:......../..:............:...........
180 |..........:............:.......\....:..........O..........:....../....:............:...........
175 |..........:............:.........\..:...../.....:...\.......:..../......:............:...........
170 |..........:............:...........O..........:.......\...:../........:............:...........
165 |..........:............:............:...........:..........O..........:............:...........
Years: ... 2006 .... 2007 ... 2008 ... 2009 ... 2010 ... 2011 .... 2012
...........................| ~~~ Recession ~~~ |..........................................


THanks for sharing that.

Indeed the Japanse anime industry went through some tough times and they are recovering slowly but more and more of the work are outsourced outside Japan to cut cost and marketing heavily to gain profit on other goods aside from the media to combat pirated stuff.And they have a politician on their side which resulted the onslaught of police work against uploaders and downloaders in Japan. Also, money dictates the fate of the anime title.

As for the North American part, a lot of the companies has closed down and or downsized in the past few years and the latest was Bandai Entertainment. Licensing for publication is very expensive . And its more expensive when the ADR is done.

I was at the Funimation panel and the marketing rep showed the entire process and the cost and she said it cuts about a third of the cost of the expense of the process in releasing a single title when the ADR is not done . Which is why Sentai and NIS America release their anime without the ADR work on it since fans will buy it no matter what. However Sentai still do some ADR on certain titles.

So far we know for sure that Funimation will still do it and Viz as well although they are very selective on which one and one of their latest work is Nurahriyon no MAgo which is my favorite from 2010 and my former voice acting classmate got a role in it
.
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Posted 1/21/13

kronikle wrote: The worst part about being from denmark is truely being limited in the amount of anime you can watch legally anywhere, even here on CR the selection is really poor compared to if i was in US.

Though that is mostly in the back catalog ~ a majority of simulcasts now go to Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland, so the selection of simulcasts can't be described as "really poor" compared to if you were in the US. Its nowhere near as bad as members in Southeast Asia or Africa (outside of South Africa) or the Middle East or even Europe south of Denmark.
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31 / M / Denver
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Posted 1/21/13

agila61 wrote:

You count 1 series = 1 movie = 1 OVA, but its not true ~ there are different amounts of work in a television series, a full length movie and an OVA.
Indeed, 1 series is not always equal to 1 series, 1 movie is not always equal to 1 movie, and 1 OVA is definitely not always equal to 1 OVA ~ different anime take different amounts of work to produce. There is a lot of difference between a series like FateStay/Zero and a series like K-On.

Anime is Anime. How they get there is up to how much financing they can get from shareholders. You can take the long road or the short road, but your end product will still be Anime. And those numbers reflect the quantity of anime released, not "big budget" vs "small budget", the numbers were all inclusive.



agila61 wrote:

As far as the question, the anime industry in Japan has substantially declined from the 90's,

How did you come to this conclusion? There was more anime released during the Recession than at any point in the 90's.



agila61 wrote:

It is facing a long term decline due to the reduction in the number of young Japanese to become new manga / light novel / visual novel / anime fans.

Where did you get this information?? Anime releases are at an all-time high. Manga is being sold at staggering amounts. Light Novels are extremely popular. And Visual Novels are doing fine. If you're going to make these claims, you need to back them up with facts and sources, otherwise, it's just unsubstantiated commentary.

Manga: One Piece leads with 13.8 million, followed by Naruto (3 million), Hunter X Hunter (2.7 million), Space Brothers (2.6 million), Kimi ni Todoke (2.3 million)
(http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-06-01/top-selling-manga-in-japan-by-series/2012-first-half)
1 out of 9 people in Japan bought One Piece manga in 2012!!

Light Novels: In 2007 it was estimated (according to a website funded by the Japanese government) that the market for light novels was about ¥20 billion ($166.7 million at ¥120 to the dollar) and about 30 million copies published annually. Kadokawa Group Holdings, which owns major labels like Kadokawa Sneaker Books and Dengeki Books, has a 70% to 80% share of the market. In 2009, light novels made ¥30.1 billion in sales, or about 20% of all sales of bunkobon-format paperback books in Japan.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_novels)

Visual Novels: Visual novels and ADVs are especially prevalent in Japan, where they made up nearly 70% of the PC game titles.
released in 2006.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_novel)
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Posted 1/21/13

iashakezula wrote:

As for the North American part, a lot of the companies has closed down and or downsized in the past few years and the latest was Bandai Entertainment. Licensing for publication is very expensive . And its more expensive when the ADR is done.

I was at the Funimation panel and the marketing rep showed the entire process and the cost and she said it cuts about a third of the cost of the expense of the process in releasing a single title when the ADR is not done . Which is why Sentai and NIS America release their anime without the ADR work on it since fans will buy it no matter what. However Sentai still do some ADR on certain titles.

So far we know for sure that Funimation will still do it and Viz as well although they are very selective on which one and one of their latest work is Nurahriyon no MAgo which is my favorite from 2010 and my former voice acting classmate got a role in it
.


I think the downfall of North American Distributors is inevitable because third-party intermediaries create an additional cost that is unsustainable. The international distributors are good for releasing physical goods, like manga books, dvds, dubs, and merchandise. However, Distributors are not needed for digital distribution. In my opinion, digital distribution should be maintained and controlled by the anime industry in Japan. Here's how I came to this conclusion:

Back in 2000, Gainax released FLCL in six OVA episodes in Japan. What made this anime even more unique was that episodes 2 through 6 were released with English subtitles - translated, timed, and subbed by Gainax upon OVA release. I imported the FLCL series because it was subtitled and I could understand the dialogue. The subtitles were done very well and I was able to enjoy the show 5 years before it would be released in America. That was when it dawned on me - why aren't more anime studios subtitling their own shows? Especially now with the internet. Why do we have to wait for an American distributor to pick up an anime and strangle its fate, when the anime companies in Japan can create their own anime web channel and post subtitled anime there?

Distributors are good for dubbing, American TV broadcasting, dvds/bluray, publishing physical manga, and bringing merchandise to Hot Topic.

But if the Anime industry were to subtitle their own work, then you could import your dvds, import your manga, and import your merchandise. That would leave the Distributors with Dubbing and TV broadcasting, which plays to the Distributors' strengths.
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Posted 1/21/13
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
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the South Bay
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Posted 1/21/13 , edited 1/21/13
Well the entire industry is very slow in coping with the advent of the internet now dont they.

Nobody was hiring the right consultant in the 2000 and Japan is very old school in a lot of things especially with the way they do business and run a company .

We had long discussions about this in the past and its now 10 years since I got into anime and at the same time the internet was getting faster . The world in connected now more than ever There are more anime fans all over the world because of the internet.And those who did not recognize this change will face extinction which what almost happened to the giant music industry


Posted 1/21/13
Nah it's getting a lot of funding at the moment but it's dead to me
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Posted 1/21/13

rebuild_eva01 wrote: Anime is Anime. How they get there is up to how much financing they can get from shareholders. You can take the long road or the short road, but your end product will still be Anime. And those numbers reflect the quantity of anime released, not "big budget" vs "small budget", the numbers were all inclusive.


Yes, that is my point: you make 26 24 min episodes, 13 26min episodes, 11 23 min episodes, a 100min movie and 4 50min OVA episodes identical, when the first one is 624mins of animation, the second one is 338min of animation, the third one is 253min of animation, the fourth is 100min of animation and the fifth is 200min of animation. So saying that 217 titles in 2012 is more anime being produced than the 212 in 2006, when there are 10 fewer series, 10 more movies and 5 more OVAs is almost certainly wrong ~ especially since the average episode count of those 10 fewer series will also be down.
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Posted 1/21/13
As for the quality of anime , for me there are still a few that pop up here and there and yes funding is a big part on the production of the anime
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Posted 1/21/13

aidenraine wrote:


uhohimdead wrote:

it's dying in terms of creativity. otherwise no it's going on strong


I wouldn't really say that. there are a lot of good anime, they're just not talked about because they're not really that popular.


-cough- Claymore ....even though old and underloved it was an unfinished beauty
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Posted 1/21/13
The way I see it I check how many companies existed only for anime in the past and what exists now. That alone gives perspective as to what exactly is going on in the industry. As for the USA side.. it's down to what.. 2 companies still from.. how many?
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Posted 1/21/13

agila61 wrote:


rebuild_eva01 wrote: Anime is Anime. How they get there is up to how much financing they can get from shareholders. You can take the long road or the short road, but your end product will still be Anime. And those numbers reflect the quantity of anime released, not "big budget" vs "small budget", the numbers were all inclusive.


Yes, that is my point: you make 26 24 min episodes, 13 26min episodes, 11 23 min episodes, a 100min movie and 4 50min OVA episodes identical, when the first one is 624mins of animation, the second one is 338min of animation, the third one is 253min of animation, the fourth is 100min of animation and the fifth is 200min of animation. So saying that 217 titles in 2012 is more anime being produced than the 212 in 2006, when there are 10 fewer series, 10 more movies and 5 more OVAs is almost certainly wrong ~ especially since the average episode count of those 10 fewer series will also be down.


My post says "released", I did not say "produced" anywhere, maybe that's where you're getting confused. The stats I provided were for the number of releases, not length of time. An anime that is a movie or 24 episodes is still a single anime release. Therefore, more anime was released in 2012 than any other year.



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