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Post Reply Israel and Palestine
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Posted 1/31/13

longfenglim wrote:


PrincessLunza wrote:



And where are you from, sir? For the record, seeing as the population is increasingly becoming atheist, your comment can easily be completely different, you're just being an idiot now. That's like saying we're all communist because the socialist party has 1 seat or also saying that we all love the centrists because the Labour party is in government - Your argument is ridiculous.

Thus, you could say we're all Muslims because of the growing Muslim-Arab community.


Hey, its your illogic, not mine. You were the one talking about the nasty right wingers and saying that is proof that the Israelis are Racist.

The Irish, then, must be fanatical Papists by your own logic.


I never said it proved Israelis were racist... I said it disproved that they weren't racist, idiot.
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Posted 1/31/13 , edited 1/31/13

PrincessLunza wrote:

I'm not going to pull out all the reasons Israel are in the wrong in the conflict off the bat, as I'd rather this didn't just turn into a war against me for being an "Islamofascist Nazi communist anti-semitic asshole"... And yes that was a SINGLE insult used against me on none other than Jerusalem Post.

So, let's get started, what does this conflict mean to you? What do you actually know about it? Whose side are you on?



Well, I think what you want to say is, 'What do you know about this conflict, and (if it is contrary to my own opinions) do you even know the facts about this conflict?



It's a big war, no doubt, and being Irish I support the side that wants freedom and equality, and by that I mean Palestine.


—They can't give women the right to their own uterus without the consultation of the Vatican, but damn us if the Irish can't bear to watch the trampling of liberty.


Let's be honest here, if someone came into your home with a Bible you didn't believe in in one hand, and a gun in the other, looked you in the eye and said "In this book, God says this is MY home... If you don't leave, I'll kill you in front of your family".


An Irishman's upset over people using the bible as an excuse, when De Valera spent his whole tenure practically made Ireland a Catholic state. But, hey, maybe because their Bible's missing the greek half. Nevermind that Israel's claim to nationhood and land is not because of the Bible, but because of the UN, don't let that stop your delusions.


You're not gonna sit down and take it are you? Are you!? I'd be surprised if you're sitting at your screen whispering "yes" right now, because that just isn't right.



This is why I detest the Anti-Zionists, they always resort to the pathetic- 'Oh look at how they suffer, evil Israel.'



Now imagine this on a massive scale. Yeah sure, the Jews suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany, but that doesn't give them the right to take over someone else's land and oppress THEM! Yes people are gonna say "Oh but they need a homeland!" At someone's expense!? Atheists don't have a homeland, I don't go marching into another nation and proclaim it as my own because it says it in this new book I read and believe in!!!


No, it does not give them the right to a homeland if they suffered, but the British did have the right to do what they want with the land they governed, and they allowed Jews to settle there- then the Arabs decided to revolt, because damn them if they have to share their land with Kikes- they were put down, more Jews came, the Brits restricted the immigration of Jews when they were fleeing from persecution from Europe and the Nazis (as in, when they most needed it), then the Israel declared independence, and, here's the rub, the UN recognises it.


So they get the chance to displace others. Ireland was a country that suffered at the hands of Britain because they didn't like Catholics... Or Irish people... But they took over the land and claimed it as their own, showing no regard to Irish citizens, despite the fact there were very few British people IN Ireland.


First, you have your history a bit wrong. The English were granted mandate by the Pope to conquer Ireland under Henry II, and was granted Lordship, and was conquered again by King Henry VIII, after that came Protestantism, and Catholics everywhere (not just Irish Catholics) were reduced in rights (they still have land), the infamous plantation (I shall not justify it), and then following that, came the Revolution, where Cromwell did do much evil. After Cromwell came Charles II, and James II, who was disposed by William of Orange and his Queen Mary, and that lead to the Irish Catholic Nobility fighting for James II, instead of recognising William of Orange- so, it is pretty much their own fault. So, it is not an history of 'the poor Irish are being oppressed by the evil English'.


Anyway, thankfully, since the beginning of the 20th century Ireland has been a free country.


Reminds me of the brief period where De Valera practically made Home Rule Rome Rule.


Will it ever happen for Palestine again? Or will they suffer for 700 years, like many countries before them? What do you think?


If you are speaking about a Two State Solution, maybe.


Oh, and before anyone starts THIS...



It is especially hard not to, when the Palestinian are broadcasting this.
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Posted 1/31/13

PrincessLunza wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


PrincessLunza wrote:



And where are you from, sir? For the record, seeing as the population is increasingly becoming atheist, your comment can easily be completely different, you're just being an idiot now. That's like saying we're all communist because the socialist party has 1 seat or also saying that we all love the centrists because the Labour party is in government - Your argument is ridiculous.

Thus, you could say we're all Muslims because of the growing Muslim-Arab community.


Hey, its your illogic, not mine. You were the one talking about the nasty right wingers and saying that is proof that the Israelis are Racist.

The Irish, then, must be fanatical Papists by your own logic.


I never said it proved Israelis were racist... I said it disproved that they weren't racist, idiot.


No, it only shows that there exist some Racists in Israel not that 'it disprove that they weren't racist', because such a broad phrase is absolutely meaningless, and is only intended to underhandedly manipulate people into thinking thus: 'Israelis are racist'.
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Posted 1/31/13

longfenglim wrote:

It is especially hard not to, when the Palestinian are broadcasting this.


Ugh, am I openly supporting Hamas here? Did I say I love Hamas, or that I support them? You must be confused!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Stop.
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Posted 1/31/13 , edited 1/31/13

PrincessLunza wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

It is especially hard not to, when the Palestinian are broadcasting this.


Ugh, am I openly supporting Hamas here? Did I say I love Hamas, or that I support them? You must be confused!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Stop.


And I never said you were, I was simply saying that there are anti-semetic materials being broadcasted in Palestine. Reading is such a wonderful thing- I blame this on the Irish government, because they are busying trying to get everyone to master two languages, it seems that you fail to attain competency in one.
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Posted 1/31/13

longfenglim wrote:

Isn't there a thread like this, where the OP were all complaining about how it is unfair that the Israel are exercising their legitimate right to vengance when your Palestinian Terrorist started shooting at civilians?


Here, did you seriously just imply that Israel don't shoot civilians?
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Posted 1/31/13

PrincessLunza wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Isn't there a thread like this, where the OP were all complaining about how it is unfair that the Israel are exercising their legitimate right to vengance when your Palestinian Terrorist started shooting at civilians?


Here, did you seriously just imply that Israel don't shoot civilians?


The IDF do not intend to shoot civilians, the Palestians are actually aiming at them.
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Posted 1/31/13

longfenglim wrote:


PrincessLunza wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Isn't there a thread like this, where the OP were all complaining about how it is unfair that the Israel are exercising their legitimate right to vengance when your Palestinian Terrorist started shooting at civilians?


Here, did you seriously just imply that Israel don't shoot civilians?


The IDF do not intend to shoot civilians, the Palestians are actually aiming at them.


As if the Palestinians actually have a legitimate target to fire at. They have RPGs... old RPGs.
The IDF have JETS. They fire at/bomb a very general area in order to kill 2-3 armed rebels while killing 5-10 unarmed civilians. I don't know about purposely aiming at them, but they certainly show little regard for them afterwards (USA in Pakistan, anyone?)
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Posted 1/31/13

PrincessLunza wrote:


As if the Palestinians actually have a legitimate target to fire at. They have RPGs... old RPGs.
The IDF have JETS. They fire at/bomb a very general area in order to kill 2-3 armed rebels while killing 5-10 unarmed civilians. I don't know about purposely aiming at them, but they certainly show little regard for them afterwards (USA in Pakistan, anyone?)


So your gripe is that Israelis are better equipped than the Palestinians, justifying the Palestinians' tactic of shooting at Israeli civilians, grade schools, hospitals, etc., where Israel, equipped with newer weapons, and having all care possible in reducing civilian casualty (which is to say, as much as possible, in that they are fighting against an hidden enemy), are somehow evil?

Then you bring up the US in Pakistan, which is not an admirable thing, but makes military sense, in that Al Queda headquarters is known to be up there, and so, it makes sense to attack their base.
Posted 1/31/13

longfenglim wrote:


PrincessLunza wrote:


As if the Palestinians actually have a legitimate target to fire at. They have RPGs... old RPGs.
The IDF have JETS. They fire at/bomb a very general area in order to kill 2-3 armed rebels while killing 5-10 unarmed civilians. I don't know about purposely aiming at them, but they certainly show little regard for them afterwards (USA in Pakistan, anyone?)


So your gripe is that Israelis are better equipped than the Palestinians, justifying the Palestinians' tactic of shooting at Israeli civilians, grade schools, hospitals, etc., where Israel, equipped with newer weapons, and having all care possible in reducing civilian casualty (which is to say, as much as possible, in that they are fighting against an hidden enemy), are somehow evil?

Then you bring up the US in Pakistan, which is not an admirable thing, but makes military sense, in that Al Queda headquarters is known to be up there, and so, it makes sense to attack their base.


You don't stop chatting complete nonsense do you. there's too many places to even start when arguing with someone who openly supports a terror state armed with advanced weaponry and is the largest receiver of US foreign "aid" firing rockets in to the most dense place on earth full of civilians and refugees locked in a ghetto. people don't like having their lands occupied, have you not heard of resistance? Israel even blocked the UN from delivering food, humanitarian aid, broke ceasefires, aims at schools and water supplies, bans items like chocolate and toothbrushes because they're considered "terrorist weapons", pillages towns... god damn, do you have any idea who advocates this disaster? the same people who set up propaganda campaigns, made contracts with corporations to profit from a conflict in Iraq which took an unfathomable amount of human life and made statements like "one thing we don't want to do is destroy Iraq's infrastructure because in a few days we'll own that place" the fundamentals of Zionism are racist to the core.... As the the Al Qaeda thing, did you know who armed them and funded them? You better take a bigger look at America's involvement overseas in their real mission, because it's not weapon inspections and liberation.
Posted 1/31/13
Btw arguing that it wasn't a big deal that Palestine got split up and stolen by Zionists because of Western Imperialism is just wrong.
Posted 1/31/13
This is why I detest the Anti-Zionists, they always resort to the pathetic- 'Oh look at how they suffer, evil Israel.'

this is my favourite, so... are you a sociopath like the IDF and pro war advocates?
Posted 1/31/13
theres no point in arguing with this longfenglim all he does is never admit the point plus he was a pain to many in my post he would just keep going hes one sick human. Plus I agree with a lot here but what are they supposed to do when they had there land stolen plus they always getting attacked and always getting bullied and dont forget the occupation.
Posted 1/31/13
Personally, it means little to me. My real knowledge of the conflict over there is limited, and the significance of why it has been happening doesn't apply to me, since I am neither Israeli, Palestinian, or anyone that would/should have any business in it.

If you want to make war in another man's backyard, be prepared for hell. No god is going to save you from modern weaponry or give you the right to control land that isn't yours.
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Posted 1/31/13

AruarianDance wrote:



You don't stop chatting complete nonsense do you. there's too many places to even start when arguing with someone who openly supports a terror state armed with advanced weaponry and is the largest receiver of US foreign "aid" firing rockets in to the most dense place on earth full of civilians and refugees locked in a ghetto. people don't like having their lands occupied, have you not heard of resistance? Israel even blocked the UN from delivering food, humanitarian aid, broke ceasefires, aims at schools and water supplies, bans items like chocolate and toothbrushes because they're considered "terrorist weapons", pillages towns... god damn, do you have any idea who advocates this disaster? the same people who set up propaganda campaigns, made contracts with corporations to profit from a conflict in Iraq which took an unfathomable amount of human life and made statements like "one thing we don't want to do is destroy Iraq's infrastructure because in a few days we'll own that place" the fundamentals of Zionism are racist to the core.... As the the Al Qaeda thing, did you know who armed them and funded them? You better take a bigger look at America's involvement overseas in their real mission, because it's not weapon inspections and liberation.



It is interesting that you use emotionally laden word in lieu of an argument, for example, saying that Israel is a terror state, that there are 'refugees locked in a ghetto', they are stealing the Palestinian land, etc., all these pathetic arguments that are not used so much to bring up a point as to rile up emotion. From the other end, one may say that you are lacking in empathy and human emotion to ignore the death wrought by the attacks of the Palestinians upon the civilians of Israel, who have done no crime but live there, including those that are born in the land of Israel and so, cannot even be considered 'foriegners', including nine year old Osher Twito who lost his leg in a bombing, or two teenagers, Koby Mandell and Yosef Ishran, who were found crushed and buried beneath stones. Alas, such gets one no where, because it detract from a calm, analytic assesment of the situation.

You first say that Israel is a 'terror state' which recieve a substantial amount of US aid and wontonly fire rockets to kill civilians and refugees. This, of course, has three flaws-

a. The term terror state is never defined, in that all states, to a degree, uses some form of terror, whether by terror of punishment they hope to coerce its population to respect the law, or by terror of army or economy they hope to assert and further their sphere of influence in whatever area. It would seem that Terror has been reduced to a word that applies only to positions you disagree with, so Israel is a terror state, I would imagine that other nations that engages in some form of terror are justified becuase it has some higher purpose, Israel is not, even if it does have a clear higher purpose for its supposed 'terror', that is security of its citizen.

b. You speak of it recieving substantial amount of US aid as somehow a wrong, when Egypt recieve just as much.

c. They wontonly fire rockets so as to kill civilians, tactics that better describes the PLO and HAMAS more than Israel. Indeed, between the two, while the IDF and Israel do have its flaws, and do sometime go beyond necessity and into wantoness, they aer much more restrained than the Palestianians.


You criticise the blockade, but, from the military and political standpoint (I make no moral judgment, unlike you), it is a good thing, in that it decrease the manpower to fight against terrorist groups, it prevents weapons from coming in, and, overall, it better protect the citizen of Israel from the wanton attacks of HAMAS, and operates on the basic premise of a seige, that is, to force the enemy to cave in and give into your demands. Therefore, there does not seem to be anything whatsoever wrong with this tactic, and, it seems, does not seem any worse than what any other nation have already done.

As for the accusation of pillaging towns, aiming at schools, and generally being evil people, I have not heard of Israel doing so, or doing so intentionally.

You follow this with lengthy tirade against American involvement in Iraq, which I would agree is a mistake, and then call Israel 'racist to its core', despite the fact that Arab-Israeli citizens are equal under the law to Jewish Israeli citizens (who are composed of every stripe of Jews) are garaunteed equal rights under the Constitution of Israel- this may falter in practice, but it does not change the fact that Arabs, legally, have equal rights, which is followed by some general complaints against American Imperialism, and treating it as some evil, even though the American Empire, in comparison with any other empires, present or pass, such as the Chinese attempt at extending their sphere of influence, the Soviets, and the British, are considerably better and more benigh, not to say that everything is all flowers and sunshine, but that it is not as bad as other empires.
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